Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 01.10.2009 08:27, schrieb daid kahl:

> What all do you unmask for this?  I'm still kicking around 3.5.10, but I
> wouldn't mind some updated apps, and some of the new Konsole features sound
> useful (which is ironic, since they were laid out as to why there aren't
> differences from 3.5.10...)

I don't know what was exactly needed to unmask because I go ~amd64 since
some time now. To prevent kde4 to install full I have it hard masked in
package.mask and use autounmask to unmask the parts I want to use. You
could use autounmask -p kde-base/konsole-4.3.1-r1 to see what would be
unmasked.

> Of course I wouldn't mind Okular either, but I think this needs the full
> kde4 libraries.

I use Okular here and it works really fine.
Ok, I have 8GB RAM so the additional libs from kde4 don't hurt here.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] device eth0 does not exist

[Steffen Loos]

Stroller schrieb:




Didn't the e1000 module change name in a recent kernel release?


I carried this notion, too. I thought it was mentioned on the list but a 
quick search didn't find it.

It was in thread: "NIC not detected after Kernel upgrade" at 15th Feb 2009.

There are two modules in the kernel: e1000 is the historical code for older net-devices and the new developed e1000e for the newer like pci-express versions. 


Steffen

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:15:11 -0500, Dale wrote:

> It does look pretty good.  Hopefully this will be better than the last
> upgrade.  Seamonkey went goofy and I couldn't compile a kernel at all. 
> I don't know what happened.
> 
> Giving this some more thought before jumping in tho.  ;-) 

4.4 is slotted, so you can keep 4.3 around until you know everything
works with the newer version, although I removed 4.3 some time ago
because I never needed it.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Celery is not food. It is a member of the plywood family.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:15:11 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>   
>> It does look pretty good.  Hopefully this will be better than the last
>> upgrade.  Seamonkey went goofy and I couldn't compile a kernel at all. 
>> I don't know what happened.
>>
>> Giving this some more thought before jumping in tho.  ;-) 
>> 
>
> 4.4 is slotted, so you can keep 4.3 around until you know everything
> works with the newer version, although I removed 4.3 some time ago
> because I never needed it.
>
>
>   

I'm still on this:

i686-pc-linux-gnu-4.1.2

gcc-4.3 was a bust for me.  Stuff crashing, couldn't compile a kernel
and a few other weird things.  I went back to 4.1 and left 4.3 alone. 

Thanks for the info.  It's compiling right now.  Boy it is big.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: Re: device eth0 does not exist

[Cinder]

>Can you show the results of `modprobe -v e1000` please?
Code:
# modprobe -v e1000
FATAL: Module e1000 not found.

... but ...

Code:
# find /lib/modules/2.6.30-gentoo-r6/ -type f -iname '*.o' -or -iname '*.ko' | 
grep e1000
/lib/modules/2.6.30-gentoo-r6/kernel/drivers/net/e1000/e1000.ko

  Nothing revelent was displayed when tail -f /var/log/messages while modprobe 
-v e1000.

>Hm, is it a pci-express device?
No. My board doesn't have pci-express.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

P.S. Sorry about the pastebin. Someone told me use that when I posted a few 
weeks ago.

_
Get your FREE, LinuxWaves.com Email Now! --> http://www.LinuxWaves.com
Join Linux Discussions! --> http://Community.LinuxWaves.com

[gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 10/01/2009 11:45 AM, Dale wrote:

Thanks for the info.  It's compiling right now.  Boy it is big.


That's what she said.

(Sorry, couldn't resist :P)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gnome 2.26 stable?

[Daniel Troeder]

On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 06:48 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> Daniel Troeder schrieb:
> Same here. After booting no sound ... in PA all looks good, after some
> searching I find alsamixer mutes things ... sigh ... but as long as
> there aren't more problems I can live with it.
You can set things with alsamixer, and then (save and) restore them on
(re)boot with /etc/init.d/alsasound
Setup is in /etc/conf.d/alsasound.

Bye,
Daniel


-- 
PGP key @ http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de/pks/lookup?search=0xBB9D4887&op=get
# gpg --recv-keys --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net 0xBB9D4887



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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Dale]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 10/01/2009 11:45 AM, Dale wrote:
>> Thanks for the info.  It's compiling right now.  Boy it is big.
>
> That's what she said.
>
> (Sorry, couldn't resist :P)
>
>
>

I was trying to make Nikos into a girl for a second there.  LOL  I need
to get some sleep. 

It's compiled and I'm about to switch.  It said something about running
fix_libtool_files.sh for the libstdc++.la stuff.  H, always
something.  I'm going to do a emerge -e system at a minimum anyway.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Sebastian Beßler]

Dale schrieb:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 10/01/2009 11:45 AM, Dale wrote:
>>> Thanks for the info.  It's compiling right now.  Boy it is big.
>> That's what she said.
>>
>> (Sorry, couldn't resist :P)
>>
>>
>>
> 
> I was trying to make Nikos into a girl for a second there.  LOL  I need
> to get some sleep. 
> 
> It's compiled and I'm about to switch.  It said something about running
> fix_libtool_files.sh for the libstdc++.la stuff.  H, always
> something.  I'm going to do a emerge -e system at a minimum anyway.

You should do fix_libtool_files.sh before the emerge -e system it only
takes a few minutes (even less here) and you are on a safer side.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: fcrontab - what am I missing?

[Helmut Jarausch]

On 30 Sep, Doug Hunley wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:40, Helmut Jarausch
>  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've been using fcron for quite some time, but
>> now it behaves strange.
>> I have version 3.0.4-r2 installed.
> 
> If you mask that version and downgrade, does the issue persist? Do you
> have a nosuid mount option in effect now that you didn't before? Is
> /tmp (and or /var/tmp or even /var/spool/fcron (iirc)) truly mode 1777
> ?

Strangely not,
ls -ld  /var/spool/fcron
gives
drwsrws---  2 stunnel fcron  4096 Oct  1 11:31 /var/spool/fcron

So, who is 'stunnel'. The corr. entry in /etc/passwd is
stunnel:x:104:1007:added by portage for stunnel:/dev/null:/sbin/nologin

So what is, what should be going on?

Thanks for your help,
Helmut.

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Dale]

Sebastian Beßler wrote:
> Dale schrieb:
>   
>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> 
>>> On 10/01/2009 11:45 AM, Dale wrote:
>>>   
 Thanks for the info.  It's compiling right now.  Boy it is big.
 
>>> That's what she said.
>>>
>>> (Sorry, couldn't resist :P)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> I was trying to make Nikos into a girl for a second there.  LOL  I need
>> to get some sleep. 
>>
>> It's compiled and I'm about to switch.  It said something about running
>> fix_libtool_files.sh for the libstdc++.la stuff.  H, always
>> something.  I'm going to do a emerge -e system at a minimum anyway.
>> 
>
> You should do fix_libtool_files.sh before the emerge -e system it only
> takes a few minutes (even less here) and you are on a safer side.
>
> Greetings
>
> Sebastian
>
>
>
>   

Yup, it took about three seconds but didn't emerge anything so I guess I
am good to go.  Yeppie!!

Dale

:-)  :-)

P. S.  Dale crosses fingers, toes and anything else that I can cross.  I
hope this goes better than last time.

[gentoo-user] Re: device eth0 does not exist

[walt]

On 10/01/2009 01:49 AM, Cinder wrote:

Can you show the results of `modprobe -v e1000` please?

Code:
# modprobe -v e1000
FATAL: Module e1000 not found.



Try running 'depmod'.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Sebastian Beßler]

Dale schrieb:

> Yup, it took about three seconds but didn't emerge anything so I guess I
> am good to go.  Yeppie!!

Thats normal, because it never emerges anything. It only changes
references by patching files.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gnome 2.26 stable?

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Daniel Troeder schrieb:
> On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 06:48 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
>> Daniel Troeder schrieb:
>> Same here. After booting no sound ... in PA all looks good, after some
>> searching I find alsamixer mutes things ... sigh ... but as long as
>> there aren't more problems I can live with it.
> You can set things with alsamixer, and then (save and) restore them on
> (re)boot with /etc/init.d/alsasound
> Setup is in /etc/conf.d/alsasound.

So I have to have both services running, alsasound AND pulseaudio ?
I assumed I would have to disable alsasound when using PA (and disabled
it ...)

S

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Jesús Guerrero]

On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:27:47 +0900, daid kahl  wrote:
>>
>> Change it in Systemsettings. I use konsole-4.3.1 with kde-3.5.10 and
>> after the change it opens firefox for me.
>>
>>
> What all do you unmask for this?  I'm still kicking around 3.5.10, but I
> wouldn't mind some updated apps, and some of the new Konsole features
sound
> useful (which is ironic, since they were laid out as to why there aren't
> differences from 3.5.10...)
> 
> Of course I wouldn't mind Okular either, but I think this needs the full
> kde4 libraries.

I don't know if I understand you well, but either way you'll need kdelibs
for *any* kde package, konsole is no exception. It's perfectly possible to
have 3.x and 4.x installed alongside, but if you use both at the same time
it will of course cause an extra "waste" of ram. There's no work around for
that because you will have to load the run time stuff for both kde 3.x and
4.x, but nothing that a modern desktop machine should be worried about.

You can start by keywording kdelibs and konsole for your ~arch, then try
to emerge and go from there.
-- 
Jesús Guerrero

[gentoo-user] Re: fcrontab - what am I missing?

[Doug Hunley]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 05:55, Helmut Jarausch 
> Strangely not,
> ls -ld  /var/spool/fcron
> gives
> drwsrws---  2 stunnel fcron  4096 Oct  1 11:31 /var/spool/fcron
>
> So, who is 'stunnel'. The corr. entry in /etc/passwd is
> stunnel:x:104:1007:added by portage for stunnel:/dev/null:/sbin/nologin
>
> So what is, what should be going on?

>From the ebuild:
docrondir /var/spool/fcron -m6770 -o fcron -g fcron

so do:
chown fcron.fcron /var/spool/fcron
chmod 6770 /var/spool/fcron
chown fcron.fcron /var/spool/fcron/*

to set it right
-- 
Douglas J Hunley, RHCT
doug.hun...@gmail.com : http://douglasjhunley.com : Twitter: @hunleyd

Obsessively opposed to the typical.

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Stroller]

On 1 Oct 2009, at 06:38, Dale wrote:

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

...
gcc-porting helped tho


Thanks.  What exactly is gcc-porting?


Well, duh! It's where you enlarge & polish the compiler's intake  
valves, to improve airflow.


Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Different desktop wallpapers in KDE4?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday 30 September 2009 20:20:01 Roy Wright wrote:

> Here's what I did which seems to work nicely:
>
> Created an auto hide panel centered on top edge.
>
> Added the activity bar widget to this panel.
>
> Create Activity (cashew, Zoom Out, alt-D alt-A, then select setup
> (wrench icon) (you may have to grab and scroll the desktop to see the
> commands) and name the activity.  You can also set the background here.
>
> Use the Activity Bar to select another activity.  Note, the first time
> after adding an activity, the activity bar has a bug where it will
> show the names for all of the activities, but will draw n-1 buttons.
> Just click on one button then the activity bar will be correct.
>
> Now on any activity, you can right click the desktop and choose
> Desktop Settings, then change the background.

Seems like an awful lot of hoops to jump through just to get a facility that 
comes out of the box in 3.5. Maybe I'll give it a try anyway, so thanks.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

[gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

Hello, happy Gentoo users! I'm new on this distro, so I'm sorry if you
consider to be stupid what I gonna say.

Many of us prefer editors other than nano. Some of us believe in ideas of
freedom and choice which Gentoo provides us with. But...

There're ones who prefer primitive hardcoding over giving the enduser to
choose. There're defaults set by someone, that you should respect.
Because... Just because he wants so. Because you are nothing. Just another
ungrateful user...
An example?

The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro.
But it totally ignores the enduser's favor in editing.
It just hardcodes what the ebuild's maintainer decided. Once and forever.

Do you want to remove nano from your system? DON'T DO THAT! Or you gonna
get some issues, you shouldn't get, if the things work as expected.

I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered
it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM
fan. And here the troubles begin...
Run "sudo visudo" and you get this:
 ~ $ sudo visudo
visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)
 ~ $ env | grep -i edit
EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim

What a surprise! Hm... Possibly I did something wrong when setting my
system, that terminates me with this error?..

So I was forced to spend my time analysing what is wrong with the package
and how to fix that. Because I remember it was working as expected in my
previous LFS (linuxfromscratch) system. My quests leaded me to the ebuild
of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there:
--with-editor=/bin/nano

Stop. I don't use nano. I even don't have it! But the ebuild doesn't check
if nano is installed. No care. It was just like said to me:
"Hey, you are just a stupid moron! Who removes default editor? He-he..."

I asked the ebuild maintainer to fix this behaviour. And what did he say?
"You should read manual page of sudo in order to make it work as expected.
To make it respect your preferences. And I don't care what editor you
prefer. Nano is Gentoo default editor!!! You understand? Stop boring me!
I will not change anything! Ha-ha..."

Actually it was said in other words but the idea is same.
Looks like the principle "it just works" is not for Gentoo users.

If you don't agree with ignoring of your preferences,
please vote for this bug:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_user&bug_id=286017#vote_286017

P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our
favourites.

Thank you.

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Mike Edenfield]

On 10/1/2009 10:44 AM, Arthur D. wrote:


I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered
it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM
fan. And here the troubles begin...
Run "sudo visudo" and you get this:
~ $ sudo visudo
visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)
~ $ env | grep -i edit
EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim



You have two options:

1. Tell sudo to preserve the EDITOR variable in /etc/sudoers:

Defaultsenv_keep += "EDITOR VISUAL PAGER"

Otherwise sudo will ignore your environment and use the defaults for the 
new user.


2. Change the default editor on your system by putting something in 
/etc/env.d:


apollo ~ # cat /etc/env.d/99editor
EDITOR="vim"


--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote:
> Hello, happy Gentoo users! I'm new on this distro, so I'm sorry if you
> consider to be stupid what I gonna say.
> 
> Many of us prefer editors other than nano. Some of us believe in ideas of
> freedom and choice which Gentoo provides us with. But...
> 
> There're ones who prefer primitive hardcoding over giving the enduser to
> choose. There're defaults set by someone, that you should respect.
> Because... Just because he wants so. Because you are nothing. Just another
> ungrateful user...
> An example?
> 
> The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro.
> But it totally ignores the enduser's favor in editing.
> It just hardcodes what the ebuild's maintainer decided. Once and forever.
> 
> Do you want to remove nano from your system? DON'T DO THAT! Or you gonna
> get some issues, you shouldn't get, if the things work as expected.
> 
> I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered
> it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM
> fan. And here the troubles begin...
> Run "sudo visudo" and you get this:
>   ~ $ sudo visudo
> visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)
>   ~ $ env | grep -i edit
> EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim
> 
> What a surprise! Hm... Possibly I did something wrong when setting my
> system, that terminates me with this error?..
> 
> So I was forced to spend my time analysing what is wrong with the package
> and how to fix that. Because I remember it was working as expected in my
> previous LFS (linuxfromscratch) system. My quests leaded me to the ebuild
> of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there:
> --with-editor=/bin/nano
> 
> Stop. I don't use nano. I even don't have it! But the ebuild doesn't check
> if nano is installed. No care. It was just like said to me:
> "Hey, you are just a stupid moron! Who removes default editor? He-he..."
> 
> I asked the ebuild maintainer to fix this behaviour. And what did he say?
> "You should read manual page of sudo in order to make it work as expected.
> To make it respect your preferences. And I don't care what editor you
> prefer. Nano is Gentoo default editor!!! You understand? Stop boring me!
> I will not change anything! Ha-ha..."
> 
> Actually it was said in other words but the idea is same.
> Looks like the principle "it just works" is not for Gentoo users.
> 
> If you don't agree with ignoring of your preferences,
> please vote for this bug:
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_user&bug_id=286017#vote_286017
> 
> P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our
> favourites.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Best regards, Spinal
> 

and isn't the real upstream hard coded editor vim?

so.. how about... you know... don't get your panties in a knot about nothing?

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Dan Cowsill]

Arthur D. wrote:
> Hello, happy Gentoo users! I'm new on this distro, so I'm sorry if you
> consider to be stupid what I gonna say.
> 
> Many of us prefer editors other than nano. Some of us believe in ideas of
> freedom and choice which Gentoo provides us with. But...
> 
> There're ones who prefer primitive hardcoding over giving the enduser to
> choose. There're defaults set by someone, that you should respect.
> Because... Just because he wants so. Because you are nothing. Just another
> ungrateful user...
> An example?
> 
> The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro.
> But it totally ignores the enduser's favor in editing.
> It just hardcodes what the ebuild's maintainer decided. Once and forever.
> 
> Do you want to remove nano from your system? DON'T DO THAT! Or you gonna
> get some issues, you shouldn't get, if the things work as expected.
> 
> I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered
> it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM
> fan. And here the troubles begin...
> Run "sudo visudo" and you get this:
>  ~ $ sudo visudo
> visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)
>  ~ $ env | grep -i edit
> EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim
> 
> What a surprise! Hm... Possibly I did something wrong when setting my
> system, that terminates me with this error?..
> 
> So I was forced to spend my time analysing what is wrong with the package
> and how to fix that. Because I remember it was working as expected in my
> previous LFS (linuxfromscratch) system. My quests leaded me to the ebuild
> of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there:
> --with-editor=/bin/nano
> 
> Stop. I don't use nano. I even don't have it! But the ebuild doesn't check
> if nano is installed. No care. It was just like said to me:
> "Hey, you are just a stupid moron! Who removes default editor? He-he..."
> 
> I asked the ebuild maintainer to fix this behaviour. And what did he say?
> "You should read manual page of sudo in order to make it work as expected.
> To make it respect your preferences. And I don't care what editor you
> prefer. Nano is Gentoo default editor!!! You understand? Stop boring me!
> I will not change anything! Ha-ha..."
> 
> Actually it was said in other words but the idea is same.
> Looks like the principle "it just works" is not for Gentoo users.
> 
> If you don't agree with ignoring of your preferences,
> please vote for this bug:
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_user&bug_id=286017#vote_286017
> 
> P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our
> favourites.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- 
> Best regards, Spinal
> 

This behavior is controlled by the EDITOR environmental variable, which
you should change in /etc/rc.conf.  It's one of the first things I
change when I tackle a new build.  The reason why the default is what it
is is a good one:  the default agrees with the rest of the initial
Gentoo environment when you first build it.  Luckily for you, everything
in Gentoo is very easy to change.

Also, one should always pose ones queries in the form of a question
instead of an attack.  And for the love of God, don't feed the devs!

DC



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

[gentoo-user] [OT] PGP User Groups?

[Dan Cowsill]

Hello list,

I've noticed that with linux geekery comes the pursuit of PGP-based
email privacy.  A great many frequent posters to this illustrious list
boast PGP keypairs and frequently sign their correspondences.  Some of
you even have photo ID's of yourselves in your public keys!  (Hello Neil!)

Unfortunately, like many of you, I am not an international spy and don't
have much to protect with this awesome encryption technology.  This
leads me to wonder if anyone has ever heard of any PGP user groups that
frequently employ encryption and do key signing and the like?

Thanks guys!

DC



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Albert Hopkins]

On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 17:44 +0300, Arthur D. wrote:
[long post about something relatively trivial]

sudoedit (and others) use the EDITOR (or VISUAL or whatever) environment
variable to chose an editor.

Gentoo defaults to nano.  It's easy to change it (most experienced Linux
users do).

# emerge -C nano && emerge vim
# echo EDITOR="/usr/bin/vim" >> /etc/env.d/99local
# env-update


And he's right, as a "meta" distribution, "it just works" is generally
*not* regarded as a Gentoo principle to shoot for.

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Walker]

Arthur D. wrote:
> Many of us prefer editors other than nano. 

Me included. I don't have nano installed here - I use LE.

> The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro.

Hmm. It's not even installed on any of my 15 systems - no use for it
whatsoever.

The default editor is set in /etc/rc.conf. Never had a problem with that.

Methinks RTFM applies?


Be lucky,

Neil
http://www.neiljw.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Joshua Murphy]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Albert Hopkins  wrote:
> [very clear, consice, polite answer to the OP's "question"]
>
> And he's right, as a "meta" distribution, "it just works" is generally
> *not* regarded as a Gentoo principle to shoot for.

And oddly, in fact, it usually it's still a goal usually reached, or
at least rather easily attained in all of 2 steps past emerge (often
mentioned in emerge output) by the admin. "It Just Works" though, in
other distros, applies all the way up to the line where you start
trying to decide things for yourself, while the distro maintainers
have decided other things for you... I saw it back in Mandrake, I see
it now in Ubuntu. Wonderful distros for "ease of use", but stripping
them down to a minimal system and expecting all my favorite pieces to
happily coexist never quite "just works". I'm strongly considering,
now that I've the drive space (upped from 4gb to 16gb) in my netbook,
bringing the last of my 'nix boxes back to Gentoo for the very fact
that the system's been lacking in the "It Just Works" principle.

Randomly, an oddly fitting quote in my signature.

-- 
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy
"The price of greatness is responsibility." - Sir Winston Churchill

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

Thanks for your replies, guys.

2. Change the default editor on your system by putting something in  
/etc/env.d:


apollo ~ # cat /etc/env.d/99editor
EDITOR="vim"

--Mike

===
spi...@supervisor ~ $ cat /etc/env.d/99editor
# Configuration file for eselect
# This file has been automatically generated.
EDITOR="/usr/bin/vim"
spi...@supervisor ~ $ sudo visudo
visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)
===

The first option works fine, but ... how much time should the user
spend to get things just work as expected?
Yes, there are such geeks like me and you, who will spend his time
doing what should already be done by maintainers.

Look in the man page, it's far from obvious why isn't EDITOR variable
respected.


--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] PGP User Groups?

[Eric Martin]

Dan Cowsill wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> I've noticed that with linux geekery comes the pursuit of PGP-based
> email privacy.  A great many frequent posters to this illustrious list
> boast PGP keypairs and frequently sign their correspondences.  Some of
> you even have photo ID's of yourselves in your public keys!  (Hello Neil!)
>
> Unfortunately, like many of you, I am not an international spy and don't
> have much to protect with this awesome encryption technology.  This
> leads me to wonder if anyone has ever heard of any PGP user groups that
> frequently employ encryption and do key signing and the like?
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> DC
>
>   
Both Linux User Groups that I'm in have PGP key signings on a regular
basis.  I think that starts to answer your question...

-- 
Eric Martin



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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:44:41 +0300, Arthur D. wrote:

> My quests leaded me to the ebuild
> of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there:
> --with-editor=/bin/nano

> P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our
> favourites.

What you you think that line in the ebuild does? It changes the *default*
editor for visudo. If you want something else, all you need to do is set
your system up accordingly as described in the installation instructions
of the handbook.

PS Good luck getting anything changed to suit your demands with your
attitude. You don't pay the devs enough for them to put up with that.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] PGP User Groups?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 11:03:23 -0400, Dan Cowsill wrote:

> Unfortunately, like many of you, I am not an international spy and don't
> have much to protect with this awesome encryption technology.

My main concern is verification. If it ain't signed by me, you can't
assume it is from me.

> This
> leads me to wonder if anyone has ever heard of any PGP user groups that
> frequently employ encryption and do key signing and the like?

Many LUGs have regular key-signing sessions.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's
too dark to read.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Paul Hartman]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Dale  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm thinking about upgrading to gcc-4.4 and was wondering if anyone here
> is using it and if they are having any problems with it.  I'm using a
> desktop system with KDE and OOo as the biggest packages.  No servers or
> anything to worry about like apache.  Also using 2.6.30-gentoo-r6 for my
> kernel.
>

I'm using ~amd64 with same kernel, KDE4, gcc-4.4.1 and no problems. I'm even
using the "graphite" USE flag & the loop-related cflags. Nothing has blown
up (yet). :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

Neil Bothwick  писал(а) в своём письме Thu, 01 Oct  
2009 18:45:20 +0300:



My quests leaded me to the ebuild
of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there:
--with-editor=/bin/nano



P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our
favourites.


What you you think that line in the ebuild does? It changes the *default*
editor for visudo. If you want something else, all you need to do is set
your system up accordingly as described in the installation instructions
of the handbook.

PS Good luck getting anything changed to suit your demands with your
attitude. You don't pay the devs enough for them to put up with that.


OK. One more time.
1. emerge -C nano
2. emerge vim
3. export EDITOR=`which vim`
4. Or do eselect editor -> env-update ; or edit /etc/rc.conf -> env-update
5. Reemerge sudo if you wish (it will not change anything)
6. Relogin
7. Run "sudo visudo"
You get this:
visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Stroller]

On 1 Oct 2009, at 15:44, Arthur D. wrote:

...

I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I  
considered
it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am  
a VIM

fan. And here the troubles begin...
Run "sudo visudo" and you get this:
~ $ sudo visudo
visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)
~ $ env | grep -i edit
EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim


You seem to have alienated some responses with your posting manner,  
but it seems that folks are replying without reading the above.


Here, as user stroller, `sudo visudo` runs nano. If  I `su` to root,  
then vi is used.


In both environments `echo $EDITOR` now returns "/usr/bin/vim".
(previously user stroller had just "vi" set as editor, but changing it  
& sourcing .bashrc doesn't make any difference)


I'm unclear why the user preference of editor seems to be ignored here.

If I `touch /etc/sudoers.tmp && touch /etc/sudoers.tmp && chmod 777 / 
etc/sudoers.tmp /etc/sudoers` then `visudo` does indeed seem to use vi.


So it seems to me that you're right. It appears like maybe when `sudo`  
detects that it's running `visudo` it does seem to ignore $EDITOR. I,  
too, disagree with this behaviour. IMO the ebuild ("--with-editor=/bin/ 
nano") take the editor from "/etc/rc.conf", but I'm extremely curious  
why upstream makes this behaviour, anyway.


Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Stroller]

On 1 Oct 2009, at 16:40, Stroller wrote:

...
So it seems to me that you're right. It appears like maybe when  
`sudo` detects that it's running `visudo` it does seem to ignore  
$EDITOR. I, too, disagree with this behaviour. IMO the ebuild ("-- 
with-editor=/bin/nano") take the editor from "/etc/rc.conf", but I'm  
extremely curious why upstream makes this behaviour, anyway.


Actually READING the bug actually showed a number of reasoned  
responses to the OP's complaint.


I don't think you'll have much luck debating this: since upstream  
hardcodes it, it comes down largely to the nano-as-default-editor  
argument, which was first made in the Paleolithic era and which has  
been hotly debated without change since.


I now appear unable to access that bug:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286017
Thanks for that.

Stroller.
 

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Dan Cowsill]

Arthur D. wrote:
> The first option works fine, but ... how much time should the user
> spend to get things just work as expected?

Plainly put, Gentoo isn't an easy-to-use distro.  If it were, I don't
think I would be using it, paradoxically enough.  If spending a little
time learning about and playing with the config files is outside of the
purview of what you consider to be a functional distro, then perhaps you
should look elsewhere.

DC



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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:58:43 +0300, Arthur D. wrote:

> 1. emerge -C nano
> 2. emerge vim
> 3. export EDITOR=`which vim`
> 4. Or do eselect editor -> env-update ; or edit /etc/rc.conf ->
> env-update 5. Reemerge sudo if you wish (it will not change anything)
> 6. Relogin
> 7. Run "sudo visudo"
> You get this:
> visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)

No I don't. I get /etc/sudoers loaded into joe, which is set in $EDITOR.

You seem to be the only one suffering with this problem, so it seems
reasonable to conclude that this is peculiar to your setup and that
shouting at devs and other users will not fix it.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

In 1750 Issac Newton became discouraged when he fell up a flight of
stairs.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

1. emerge -C nano
2. emerge vim
3. export EDITOR=`which vim`
4. Or do eselect editor -> env-update ; or edit /etc/rc.conf ->
env-update 5. Reemerge sudo if you wish (it will not change anything)
6. Relogin
7. Run "sudo visudo"
You get this:
visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)


No I don't. I get /etc/sudoers loaded into joe, which is set in $EDITOR.

You seem to be the only one suffering with this problem, so it seems
reasonable to conclude that this is peculiar to your setup and that
shouting at devs and other users will not fix it.


I gonna bet you added "magic" line to your sudoers previously or make some  
other

crutches to make it work:
Defaults env_keep="EDITOR"

--
Best regards, Spinal

[gentoo-user] Re: Am I wrong?..

[Doug O'Neal]

On 10/01/2009 11:34 AM, Arthur D. wrote:
> Thanks for your replies, guys.
> 
>> 2. Change the default editor on your system by putting something in
>> /etc/env.d:
>>
>> apollo ~ # cat /etc/env.d/99editor
>> EDITOR="vim"
>>
>> --Mike
> ===
> spi...@supervisor ~ $ cat /etc/env.d/99editor
> # Configuration file for eselect
> # This file has been automatically generated.
> EDITOR="/usr/bin/vim"
> spi...@supervisor ~ $ sudo visudo
> visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)
> ===
> 
> The first option works fine, but ... how much time should the user
> spend to get things just work as expected?
> Yes, there are such geeks like me and you, who will spend his time
> doing what should already be done by maintainers.
> 
> Look in the man page, it's far from obvious why isn't EDITOR variable
> respected.

>From the sudoers man page:

env_reset   If set, sudo will reset the environment to only contain
the LOGNAME, SHELL, USER, USERNAME and the SUDO_* variables.  Any
variables in the caller's environment that match the env_keep and
env_check lists are then added.  The default contents of the env_keep
and env_check lists are displayed when sudo is run by root with the -V
option.  If the secure_path option is set, its value will be used for
the PATH environment variable. This flag is on by default.

Looks pretty clear to me.  The default to to ditch EDITOR along with
other potentially dangerous environment variables.

Doug

[gentoo-user] Re: Am I wrong?..

[Doug O'Neal]

On 10/01/2009 11:58 AM, Arthur D. wrote:
> Neil Bothwick  писал(а) в своём письме Thu, 01 Oct
> 2009 18:45:20 +0300:
> 
>>> My quests leaded me to the ebuild
>>> of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there:
>>> --with-editor=/bin/nano
>>
>>> P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our
>>> favourites.
>>
>> What you you think that line in the ebuild does? It changes the *default*
>> editor for visudo. If you want something else, all you need to do is set
>> your system up accordingly as described in the installation instructions
>> of the handbook.
>>
>> PS Good luck getting anything changed to suit your demands with your
>> attitude. You don't pay the devs enough for them to put up with that.
> 
> OK. One more time.
> 1. emerge -C nano
> 2. emerge vim
> 3. export EDITOR=`which vim`
> 4. Or do eselect editor -> env-update ; or edit /etc/rc.conf -> env-update
> 5. Reemerge sudo if you wish (it will not change anything)
> 6. Relogin
> 7. Run "sudo visudo"
> You get this:
> visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)
> 

Step 5a: echo 'Defaults editor=/usr/bin/vim' >> /etc/sudoers

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Daniel da Veiga]

2009/10/1 Arthur D. :
> Hello, happy Gentoo users! I'm new on this distro, so I'm sorry if you
> consider to be stupid what I gonna say.
>
> Many of us prefer editors other than nano. Some of us believe in ideas of
> freedom and choice which Gentoo provides us with. But...
>
> There're ones who prefer primitive hardcoding over giving the enduser to
> choose. There're defaults set by someone, that you should respect.
> Because... Just because he wants so. Because you are nothing. Just another
> ungrateful user...
> An example?
>
> The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro.
> But it totally ignores the enduser's favor in editing.
> It just hardcodes what the ebuild's maintainer decided. Once and forever.
>
> Do you want to remove nano from your system? DON'T DO THAT! Or you gonna
> get some issues, you shouldn't get, if the things work as expected.
>
> I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered
> it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM
> fan. And here the troubles begin...
> Run "sudo visudo" and you get this:
>     ~ $ sudo visudo
> visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano)
>     ~ $ env | grep -i edit
> EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim
>
> What a surprise! Hm... Possibly I did something wrong when setting my
> system, that terminates me with this error?..
>
> So I was forced to spend my time analysing what is wrong with the package
> and how to fix that. Because I remember it was working as expected in my
> previous LFS (linuxfromscratch) system. My quests leaded me to the ebuild
> of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there:
> --with-editor=/bin/nano
>
> Stop. I don't use nano. I even don't have it! But the ebuild doesn't check
> if nano is installed. No care. It was just like said to me:
> "Hey, you are just a stupid moron! Who removes default editor? He-he..."
>
> I asked the ebuild maintainer to fix this behaviour. And what did he say?
> "You should read manual page of sudo in order to make it work as expected.
> To make it respect your preferences. And I don't care what editor you
> prefer. Nano is Gentoo default editor!!! You understand? Stop boring me!
> I will not change anything! Ha-ha..."
>
> Actually it was said in other words but the idea is same.
> Looks like the principle "it just works" is not for Gentoo users.
>
> If you don't agree with ignoring of your preferences,
> please vote for this bug:
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_user&bug_id=286017#vote_286017
>
> P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our
> favourites.
>

Section 8.c of the Gentoo Handbook (called System Information) advises
you to edit /etc/rc.conf to change your preferences.

Either you missed that section or didn't read the documentation, the
dev has all the right to answer like that. Creating the bug before
asking here was also not a good idea.

-- 
Daniel da Veiga

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:21:07 +0300, Arthur D. wrote:

> I gonna bet you added "magic" line to your sudoers previously or make
> some other
> crutches to make it work:
> Defaults env_keep="EDITOR"

You lost that bet.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Is it possible to be totally partial?


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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

I gonna bet you added "magic" line to your sudoers previously or make
some other
crutches to make it work:
Defaults env_keep="EDITOR"


You lost that bet.

Proof?


Section 8.c of the Gentoo Handbook (called System Information) advises
you to edit /etc/rc.conf to change your preferences.
Daniel, I read the book carefully and did all that was need. Also I  
commented

#EDITOR="/bin/nano"
And set
EDITOR="/usr/bin/vim"
there
Any more suggestions?

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Daniel da Veiga]

2009/10/1 Arthur D. :
>>> I gonna bet you added "magic" line to your sudoers previously or make
>>> some other
>>> crutches to make it work:
>>> Defaults env_keep="EDITOR"
>>
>> You lost that bet.
>
> Proof?
>
>> Section 8.c of the Gentoo Handbook (called System Information) advises
>> you to edit /etc/rc.conf to change your preferences.
>
> Daniel, I read the book carefully and did all that was need. Also I
> commented
> #EDITOR="/bin/nano"
> And set
> EDITOR="/usr/bin/vim"
> there
> Any more suggestions?
>

I'm using a 4 years old system, and if I change that line, log out and
in again, it changes the env variable and everything works (that means
the behavior is probably caused by your configuration). If visudo is
still using that configuration, maybe that's because some
configuration file has precedence over environment variables. In that
case, you gotta find that file and change it.

Not an easy task, anyway... I just did an "grep -r /bin/nano" in /etc.
LOL, I know there's a better way, I'm just too lazy to look for it...

-- 
Daniel da Veiga

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

I'm using a 4 years old system, and if I change that line, log out and
in again, it changes the env variable and everything works (that means
the behavior is probably caused by your configuration). If visudo is
still using that configuration, maybe that's because some
configuration file has precedence over environment variables. In that
case, you gotta find that file and change it.

Not an easy task, anyway... I just did an "grep -r /bin/nano" in /etc.
LOL, I know there's a better way, I'm just too lazy to look for it...


Man, running "sudo visudo" and just running "visudo" is not the same.
Be careful. Nano is hardcoded in sudo's ebuild.

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

As the access to the bug was denied by the admin please use this link for  
discussion:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-795069.html

Thanks.

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[James Ausmus]

2009/10/1 Arthur D. 

>  I'm using a 4 years old system, and if I change that line, log out and
>> in again, it changes the env variable and everything works (that means
>> the behavior is probably caused by your configuration). If visudo is
>> still using that configuration, maybe that's because some
>> configuration file has precedence over environment variables. In that
>> case, you gotta find that file and change it.
>>
>> Not an easy task, anyway... I just did an "grep -r /bin/nano" in /etc.
>> LOL, I know there's a better way, I'm just too lazy to look for it...
>>
>
> Man, running "sudo visudo" and just running "visudo" is not the same.
> Be careful. Nano is hardcoded in sudo's ebuild.
>
>

OK, for the Nth time on this thread - it is all about *YOUR* configuration
*IN YOUR SUDOERS FILE* - *by default*, sudo DOES NOT preserve the
environmental variables of the current user - it *DOES NOT* replace them
with variables from your profile, as *IT IS NOT RUNNING THE COMMAND IN AN
INTERACTIVE SHELL LOGIN* - if you want that behaviour, try using "sudo -i".

To see *VERY EXPLICITLY* what you have been told *OVER AND OVER* on this
thread, do the following:

sudo env
sudo -i env


and look at the difference. Unless *YOU* configure sudo the *NOT* reset
environmental variables, it is configured *BY DEFAULT* to blank out all but
a very few - once again, *THIS INCLUDES THE EDITOR VARIABLE*.

Once again, to fix the issue, do one of the 3 following procedures:

1 - Make all users preserve env variables when using sudo (least secure):

sudo -i visudo   #This will start a visudo session *with vim*, since you are
using the -i option, which causes sudo to execute the command from an
interactive shell (which will read all env variables as you have configured)
comment out the line that reads:

Defaultsenv_reset

save, quit, and now your problem is solved.

2 - Make only users in the "wheel" group preserve env variables when using
sudo (more secure):

sudo -i visudo
uncomment out the line that reads:

#Defaults:%wheel!env_reset

save, quit
if your user is not already in the "wheel" group, add it into it:

gpasswd -a  wheel

then log out and log back in, and now your problem is solved.


3 - Make only the "EDITOR" env variable preserved when using sudo (even more
secure):

sudo -i visudo
add the following line:

Defaults env_delete-=EDITOR

save, quit


Now, there are *NUMEROUS* other ways that *YOU* can fix *YOUR CONFIG* to
solve *YOUR PROBLEM* - *HOWEVER*, continually ignoring the numerous fixes
that other users have replied to you with, and being hostile towards both
devs *and* the user community ("Proof?" WTF is your problem? You come here
asking for help, and then ignore the help you're given, and accuse a *very*
long-time user and *very* respected member of the community of *lying* to
you when he is trying to help you? Get your attitude fixed - seriously).

I hope that helps get your problem (and your hostility) resolved.

-James


> --
> Best regards, Spinal
>
>

[gentoo-user] Re: {OT} External video card with RCA output?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2009-09-30, Neil Bothwick  wrote:

> That particular device also does S-Video, but you're never
> going to get wonderful quality when using a TV without a VGA
> or HDMI connection.

S-Video should be a little better (not much).  Hotels should
provide VGA/DVI/HDMI inputs on TVs and advertise the fact.
Might draw some of the geek business.  :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

James Ausmus, I solved this proble long ago. I just curios,
why it's not solved by portage? So the users should spend their
time diggin in manuals to find why is sudo not working in Gentoo
like it does in LFS or any other distro?.. Is this the Gentoo way
or something?

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote:
> As the access to the bug was denied by the admin please use this link for
> discussion:
> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-795069.html
> 
> Thanks.
> 

wow, you must have been VERY obnoxious to have the bug closed for others.


First time I see that.

...

well.. vim users

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Stroller]

On 1 Oct 2009, at 19:07, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:


On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote:
As the access to the bug was denied by the admin please use this  
link for

discussion:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-795069.html


wow, you must have been VERY obnoxious to have the bug closed for  
others.


First time I see that.


I saw the bug earlier, must have been 30 minutes before it was closed.

It didn't seem "obnoxious" as such, but the dev considered the bug  
closed and I think it kept getting reopened as others added comments.  
There was certainly a request in the bug "please do not reopen as I do  
not want to make this bug devs only" when I saw it, but all was polite.


This is really a shame, as the discussion there was really more  
insightful that that here - lots of people here are echoing stuff that  
was already explained in the bug, and some of what is being echoed  
here is apparently wrong. It seemed to all be quite clearly explained  
in the responses to the bug report.


Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Stroller]

On 1 Oct 2009, at 19:40, Stroller wrote:



On 1 Oct 2009, at 19:07, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:


On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote:
As the access to the bug was denied by the admin please use this  
link for

discussion:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-795069.html


wow, you must have been VERY obnoxious to have the bug closed for  
others.


First time I see that.


I saw the bug earlier, must have been 30 minutes before it was closed.

It didn't seem "obnoxious" as such, but the dev considered the bug  
closed and I think it kept getting reopened as others added  
comments. There was certainly a request in the bug "please do not  
reopen as I do not want to make this bug devs only" when I saw it,  
but all was polite.


This is really a shame, as the discussion there was really more  
insightful that that here - lots of people here are echoing stuff  
that was already explained in the bug, and some of what is being  
echoed here is apparently wrong. It seemed to all be quite clearly  
explained in the responses to the bug report.


I meant to add, the Google cache seems to be missing most of these  
useful comments. :(


http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:Ywvu1cqDSmcJ:bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi%3Fid%3D286017+gentoo+286017&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk
or http://preview.tinyurl.com/yborwyw

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 21:10:19 +0300, Arthur D. wrote:

> James Ausmus, I solved this proble long ago. I just curios,

So you're just ranting, you don't actually have a problem to solve and
your question was rhetorical venting?

> why it's not solved by portage?

What problem? That the default editor for visudo is set to the same as
the default editor for the rest of the system? I don't see that as a
problem. Lot's of people use Vim as their default editor. Gentoo lets you
use any editor you like, even something as arcane as Vim...


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:34:15 +0300, Arthur D. wrote:

> Man, running "sudo visudo" and just running "visudo" is not the same.

True, but both call $EDITOR here.

> Be careful. Nano is hardcoded in sudo's ebuild.

Yes, as a default when no other editor is specified. That means no
$EDITOR variable visible to visudo and no default specified
in /etc/sudoers. It does NOT mean that visudo is hard coded to use nano,
merely that the Gentoo devs have set the fallback to something they
know will be on a default Gentoo install. That seems a sensible decision
to me.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Why is the word abbreviation so long?


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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[James Ausmus]

2009/10/1 Arthur D. 

> James Ausmus, I solved this proble long ago. I just curios,
> why it's not solved by portage? So the users should spend their
> time diggin in manuals to find why is sudo not working in Gentoo
> like it does in LFS or any other distro?.. Is this the Gentoo way
> or something?
>

The Gentoo Way of doing things is to stick as close to "vanilla" upstream as
possible, and to enable you to have complete control over your box,
including configurations. In other words, if you want something configured
differently than vanilla, you have to do the work.

This being said, yes, the ebuild configures sudo to use /bin/nano as a
fallback, if no other editors are specified to visudo (either via env vars
or via the sudoers config file). This is a very sane thing to do by default,
as nano is part of the default stage3 install, has no easy-to-screw-up
dependencies, is very small, and, unless the user really knows what they are
doing, is pretty much always guaranteed to be on a Gentoo system and usable
- the key point being that the user really knows what they are doing, enough
to specifically unmerge nano after emerging a different editor that
satisfies the RDEPEND dependencies of virtual/editor (which, if you don't
have any satisfactory editor installed, will pull in nano - it's small, it
always works). There have been several times in the past where I have
screwed up my system to the point that vi/vim will not run, and having nano
around as an editor has saved me from having to reboot into a livecd.

All this all this said, if you want to modify the sudo ebuild to either be
smarter about specifying the fallback editor by looking at the available
editors on the system, or have USE-based editor flags (probably not a good
idea, as there are a lot of different console editors that will satisfy the
virtual/editor RDEPEND, and switching preferred editors is so trivial that I
don't think the Gentoo devs would be willing to justify another USE-expanded
flag in make.conf), then the maintainer for the sudo package might consider.
But, then again, since nano pretty much always works, it's trivial to change
your configs to never use nano, and nano is pretty much always guaranteed to
be there (unless, again, you really know what you're doing, in which case
you should know how to modify your configs to disregard nano), they most
likely wouldn't accept the change. But if you are passionate enough about
not having to trivially modify your configs, then you can create an overlay
with your modified ebuild, and be your own sudo ebuild maintainer.

See all the flexibility Gentoo gives you? A trivial amount of config
modification is an extremely small price to pay for all the power and
flexibility (not to mention the extremely helpful devs and community, when
you're willing to discuss and listen instead of just attack and provoke).


-James



>
> --
> Best regards, Spinal
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[forgottenwizard]

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 05:08:16PM +0100, Stroller wrote:
> 
> On 1 Oct 2009, at 16:40, Stroller wrote:
> > ...
> > So it seems to me that you're right. It appears like maybe when  
> > `sudo` detects that it's running `visudo` it does seem to ignore  
> > $EDITOR. I, too, disagree with this behaviour. IMO the ebuild ("-- 
> > with-editor=/bin/nano") take the editor from "/etc/rc.conf", but I'm  
> > extremely curious why upstream makes this behaviour, anyway.
> 
> Actually READING the bug actually showed a number of reasoned  
> responses to the OP's complaint.
> 
> I don't think you'll have much luck debating this: since upstream  
> hardcodes it, it comes down largely to the nano-as-default-editor  
> argument, which was first made in the Paleolithic era and which has  
> been hotly debated without change since.
> 
> I now appear unable to access that bug:
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286017
> Thanks for that.
> 
> Stroller.
>   
> 

I'm unable to read the bug as well, which I find bothersome (how many
bugs have they hidden from users?).

However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the
EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it should
work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this which
seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force specific
programs on the users.

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Walker]

Arthur D. wrote:
> James Ausmus, I solved this proble long ago. I just curios,
> why it's not solved by portage? So the users should spend their
> time diggin in manuals to find why is sudo not working in Gentoo
> like it does in LFS or any other distro?.. Is this the Gentoo way
> or something?
>

Perhaps you should find a distribution more suited to your
abilities/expectations. Clearly,
Gentoo is not for you.


Neil
http://www.neiljw.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009 21:32:56 schrieb forgottenwizard:

> However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the
> EDITOR variable as was mentioned.

Because that's the worst thing to do. An ebuild's behaviour should not depend 
on env variables (like it's still the case for this stupid grub ebuild), 
because the user never get's to see this. There are other possibilities, i.e. 
something like LINGUAS or VIDEO_CARDS, which are immediately visible.

Bye...

Dirk

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

Perhaps you should find a distribution more suited to your
abilities/expectations. Clearly,
Gentoo is not for you.


Really? Do you just give up and eat what people tell you to eat?
I don't respect such people, really.
I prefer to change the things, that I think are not right.
Obtruding the default editor (not just fallbacking but hardcoding)
is bad tendency for sure.

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

Dirk Heinrichs  писал(а) в своём письме Thu, 01  
Oct 2009 22:45:40 +0300:



Am Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009 21:32:56 schrieb forgottenwizard:


However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the
EDITOR variable as was mentioned.


Because that's the worst thing to do. An ebuild's behaviour should not  
depend

on env variables (like it's still the case for this stupid grub ebuild),
because the user never get's to see this.


Oh, really?
Snipped from sudo's ebuild:
econf --with-secure-path="${ROOTPATH}"

What do you think about this line? There's an issue connected with that  
string by the way.

You may want to check it:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286014

The maintainer didn't even notice user about hardcoding ROOTPATH in sudo.
And, even more, he didn't check that manual page is saying that secure_path
is unset by default. And again I (the enduser) was forced to go check the  
ebuilds

to see why sudo doesn't work as expected.

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

James Ausmus  писал(а) в своём письме Thu, 01 Oct  
2009 22:04:38 +0300:


The Gentoo Way of doing things is to stick as close to "vanilla"  
upstream as possible, and to enable you to have complete control over  
your box, including configurations. In other words, if you want  
something configured differently than vanilla, you have to do the work.


James, what vanilla are you speaking about?
I used vanilla sudo in my LinuxFromScratch system for several years and
I nevert noticed that VIsudo tries to force me with some other editor than  
VI.
Maybe it's called VIsudo because VIM is better alternative for VANILLA,  
hah?

I think it's most reasonably to omit that hardcoding line from ebuild.
I'm sure visudo will notice the user about what should be done to make it  
work
as expected and that's better behaviour than complaining about missing  
/bin/nano,

don't u think so?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gnome 2.26 stable?

[Daniel Troeder]

On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 15:08 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> Daniel Troeder schrieb:
> > On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 06:48 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> >> Daniel Troeder schrieb:
> >> Same here. After booting no sound ... in PA all looks good, after some
> >> searching I find alsamixer mutes things ... sigh ... but as long as
> >> there aren't more problems I can live with it.
> > You can set things with alsamixer, and then (save and) restore them on
> > (re)boot with /etc/init.d/alsasound
> > Setup is in /etc/conf.d/alsasound.
> 
> So I have to have both services running, alsasound AND pulseaudio ?
> I assumed I would have to disable alsasound when using PA (and disabled
> it ...)
ALSA is not a service (it's just drivers and API). There is nothing
running. It just loads your configuration (modules and volume levels).
PA on the other hand does not have hardware drivers - it relies on ALSA
or OSS for that.

-- 
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# gpg --recv-keys --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net 0xBB9D4887



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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Mike Edenfield]

On 10/1/2009 1:34 PM, Arthur D. wrote:

I'm using a 4 years old system, and if I change that line, log out and
in again, it changes the env variable and everything works (that means
the behavior is probably caused by your configuration). If visudo is
still using that configuration, maybe that's because some
configuration file has precedence over environment variables. In that
case, you gotta find that file and change it.

Not an easy task, anyway... I just did an "grep -r /bin/nano" in /etc.
LOL, I know there's a better way, I'm just too lazy to look for it...


Man, running "sudo visudo" and just running "visudo" is not the same.
Be careful. Nano is hardcoded in sudo's ebuild.


Normal users cannot run "visudo", so you must already be root to run it, 
or else use 'sudo visudo'.  In the first case, it uses your EDITOR 
variable and there is no problem.


In the second case, as already explained, it uses the first one of:

* The EDITOR variable, if you've told sudo to keep it set
* The default editor from the sudoers file, if you've set that
* The default editor from the ebuild, which is nano.

It is also not just visudo that has this behavior.  Just run this:

apollo ~ # sudo $EDITOR

and if you haven't explicitly told sudo to preserve the EDITOR variable 
it will fail.  As will any other program that reads EDITOR (or VISUAL, 
the other popular one).  Point being, the behavior you're seeing isn't a 
bug in the sudo ebuild --- it's intended and intentional behavior of 
sudo itself.


--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Mike Edenfield]

On 10/1/2009 3:32 PM, forgottenwizard wrote:


However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the
EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it should
work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this which
seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force specific
programs on the users.


I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to 
define the system-wide default on an ebuild.  For example, what if my 
EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some other 
remote user tried to run visudo over ssh?


--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to  
define the system-wide default on an ebuild.  For example, what if my  
EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some other  
remote user tried to run visudo over ssh?


Consider that gvim will be just a fallback, as said before.
And at least visudo will not complaint about missing gvim binary...
The worst thing that can happen, it will just complaint about missing X
server on the local side. Though, it's better than complaining about
missing binary that was not supposed by enduser to be in place at all...
It's like, "oh, please you install nano, or I refuse to run".
Obtrusively, no?

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Stroller]

On 1 Oct 2009, at 21:28, Mike Edenfield wrote:


On 10/1/2009 3:32 PM, forgottenwizard wrote:


However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the
EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it should
work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this  
which

seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force specific
programs on the users.


I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to  
define the system-wide default on an ebuild.  For example, what if  
my EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some  
other remote user tried to run visudo over ssh?


I think it should get the $EDITOR variable set in rc.conf

Stroller.
 

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Stroller wrote:
> On 1 Oct 2009, at 21:28, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> > On 10/1/2009 3:32 PM, forgottenwizard wrote:
> >> However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the
> >> EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it should
> >> work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this
> >> which
> >> seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force specific
> >> programs on the users.
> >
> > I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to
> > define the system-wide default on an ebuild.  For example, what if
> > my EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some
> > other remote user tried to run visudo over ssh?
> 
> I think it should get the $EDITOR variable set in rc.conf
> 
> Stroller.
> 

it is set in /etv/env.d - why is that not enough?

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Stroller]

On 1 Oct 2009, at 22:01, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:


On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Stroller wrote:

On 1 Oct 2009, at 21:28, Mike Edenfield wrote:

On 10/1/2009 3:32 PM, forgottenwizard wrote:

However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the
EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it  
should

work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this
which
seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force  
specific

programs on the users.


I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to
define the system-wide default on an ebuild.  For example, what if
my EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some
other remote user tried to run visudo over ssh?


I think it should get the $EDITOR variable set in rc.conf


it is set in /etv/env.d - why is that not enough?


Uh, because the ebuild ignores that, too, and hard-codes it.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Dale]

Paul Hartman wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Dale  > wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm thinking about upgrading to gcc-4.4 and was wondering if
> anyone here
> is using it and if they are having any problems with it.  I'm using a
> desktop system with KDE and OOo as the biggest packages.  No
> servers or
> anything to worry about like apache.  Also using 2.6.30-gentoo-r6
> for my
> kernel.
>
>
> I'm using ~amd64 with same kernel, KDE4, gcc-4.4.1 and no problems.
> I'm even using the "graphite" USE flag & the loop-related cflags.
> Nothing has blown up (yet). :)

It has finished the emerge -e system so far.  Not a single failure that
I can see.  Do have to update a config file tho.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1

[Mike Edenfield]

On 10/1/2009 6:26 PM, Dale wrote:


It has finished the emerge -e system so far.  Not a single failure that
I can see.  Do have to update a config file tho.  ;-)


In case anyone's keeping score, I've been using gcc-4.4 with the 
hardened profile (from the hardened-development overlay, of course) for 
a good while, and the only problems I've run into are hardened related. 
 It has built OOo, Gnome, Gimp, Firefox, Emacs, and even CLISP with no 
apparent problems so far.


--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:45:51 +0300, Arthur D. wrote:

> It's like, "oh, please you install nano, or I refuse to run".

It's nothing like that at all. As long as you have an editor installed
and configured correctly, visudo will quite happily run without nano.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Help put the "fun" back in "dysfunctional" !


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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:12:36 +0300, Arthur D. wrote:

> I think it's most reasonably to omit that hardcoding line from ebuild.

I think you need to re-read the ebuild. sudo depends on virtual/editor,
not nano. Nowhere is nano hardcoded to be a requirement of sudo. On the
other hand, if you went with the upstream settings, you'd need to add vim
as a dependency, even for those that don't wish to use it. Forcing such
things on the user is most definitely not the Gentoo Way.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

PCMCIA: People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms


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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Stroller]

On 1 Oct 2009, at 23:53, Neil Bothwick wrote:


On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:12:36 +0300, Arthur D. wrote:

I think it's most reasonably to omit that hardcoding line from  
ebuild.


I think you need to re-read the ebuild. sudo depends on virtual/ 
editor,
not nano. Nowhere is nano hardcoded to be a requirement of sudo. On  
the
other hand, if you went with the upstream settings, you'd need to  
add vim
as a dependency, even for those that don't wish to use it. Forcing  
such

things on the user is most definitely not the Gentoo Way.


You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the  
problem:


828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild
# XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default.
--with-editor=/bin/nano \
829 ~ $

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neil Bothwick]

On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 00:54:50 +0100, Stroller wrote:

> > I think you need to re-read the ebuild. sudo depends on virtual/ 
> > editor,
> > not nano. Nowhere is nano hardcoded to be a requirement of sudo. On  
> > the
> > other hand, if you went with the upstream settings, you'd need to  
> > add vim
> > as a dependency, even for those that don't wish to use it. Forcing  
> > such
> > things on the user is most definitely not the Gentoo Way.  
> 
> You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the  
> problem:
> 
> 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild
>   # XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default.
>   --with-editor=/bin/nano \

How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use
if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's
what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted
state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If
that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting
virtual/editor.

visudo is not hard coded to use nano, or even $EDITOR, you can set it to
use whatever you want. The ebuild merely makes sure the default tallies
with the default for $EDITOR. 


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't give a damn.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[forgottenwizard]

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 09:45:40PM +0200, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> Am Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009 21:32:56 schrieb forgottenwizard:
> 
> > However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the
> > EDITOR variable as was mentioned.
> 
> Because that's the worst thing to do. An ebuild's behaviour should not depend 
> on env variables (like it's still the case for this stupid grub ebuild), 
> because the user never get's to see this. There are other possibilities, i.e. 
> something like LINGUAS or VIDEO_CARDS, which are immediately visible.
> 
> Bye...
> 
>   Dirk
> 

So instead it should set a non-existant editor to the configured
default?

Another variable in make.conf may be a reasonable fix for this though
I'm sure someone will bitch about having to set $EDITOR twice on their
system.

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[forgottenwizard]

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 12:04:38PM -0700, James Ausmus wrote:
> 2009/10/1 Arthur D. 
> 
> The Gentoo Way of doing things is to stick as close to "vanilla" upstream as
> possible, and to enable you to have complete control over your box,
> including configurations. In other words, if you want something configured
> differently than vanilla, you have to do the work.
> 

How many packages actually follow upstream without patching the source?

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Neal Hogan]

In response to the subject and the OP . . .

YES!

If you'd rather have your free OS accommodate your needs, then perhaps
you should find/create one. Otherwise, shut up or make your
suggestions less obnoxious (realizing the non-native English issue).

The OP's position (from what I can tell) has been combative and less
than conducive to progress.

In the end, Gentoo is a distro that is free of charge and  . . . well.
. .  . pretty good.  Non-devs are welcome to make suggestions, but not
demands. If you'd rather have vim (or "easier" access to it), then go
somewhere else.

Nano is the editor of (default)choice. IF it is REALLY a situation
where Gentoo is not providing its users with a choice of editor and
this is a problem for you, then use something else.

To claim that "I try to change things that are 'wrong' (I fight for
injustice)" is silly, in this context.  This is not civil rights . . .
this is not genocide . . . this is an OS distro that is free and MAY
fit your needs. To complain about it on the scale that the OP has, is
just (again) SILLY! (you are not a saint)

To all of those who took the time to put this joker into his/her
place, I applaud you. It's amazing how often subtly fails.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 7:45 PM, forgottenwizard
 wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 12:04:38PM -0700, James Ausmus wrote:
>> 2009/10/1 Arthur D. 
>>
>> The Gentoo Way of doing things is to stick as close to "vanilla" upstream as
>> possible, and to enable you to have complete control over your box,
>> including configurations. In other words, if you want something configured
>> differently than vanilla, you have to do the work.
>>
>
> How many packages actually follow upstream without patching the source?
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Albert Hopkins]

On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 20:55 -0500, Neal Hogan wrote:
> To claim that "I try to change things that are 'wrong' (I fight for
> injustice)" is silly, in this context.  This is not civil rights . . .
> this is not genocide . . . this is an OS distro that is free and MAY
> fit your needs. To complain about it on the scale that the OP has, is
> just (again) SILLY! (you are not a saint)

Of course he is not a saint.  He is a martyr!

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the
problem:

828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild
# XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default.
--with-editor=/bin/nano \

How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use
if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's
what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted
state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If
that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting
virtual/editor.


Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in  
vanilla sudo
package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who  
have VIM
installed on their shiny Gentoo systems expect that VIsudo will behave as  
it did
for long tim ago. There are historical (or some other) reasons for making  
VI default
editor for this utility. It's like they don't respect not only endusers  
favours but

the developers' too, no?

WHY NOT CHECK if vim binary is in place and ONLY THEN (when it's obviously  
absent)

hardcode the Gentoo Best Award of Choice Editor?

I repeat once more.
Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra
configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer
other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid?

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Freitag 02 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote:
> >> You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the
> >> problem:
> >>
> >> 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild
> >># XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default.
> >>--with-editor=/bin/nano \
> >
> > How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use
> > if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's
> > what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted
> > state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If
> > that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting
> > virtual/editor.
> 
> Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in
> vanilla sudo
> package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who
> have VIM
> installed on their shiny Gentoo systems expect that VIsudo will behave as
> it did
> for long tim ago. There are historical (or some other) reasons for making
> VI default
> editor for this utility. It's like they don't respect not only endusers
> favours but
> the developers' too, no?
> 
> WHY NOT CHECK if vim binary is in place and ONLY THEN (when it's obviously
> absent)
> hardcode the Gentoo Best Award of Choice Editor?
> 
> I repeat once more.
> Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra
> configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer
> other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid?
> 

why is it always vim users who get their panties in a knot about nothing?

just set EDITOR, you are done. 

You might be surprised to know, that most people do not have vim installed. 
But you are forcing others to adhere to something?

Things change. Maybe vim users should realize that too

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 02.10.2009 07:29, schrieb Arthur D.:

> I repeat once more.
> Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra
> configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer
> other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid?

I have VIM installed, set as default editor via EDITOR="/usr/bin/vim" in
my /root/bashrc. If I run VISUDO as root (I never use sudo so all there
is vanilla and so my user can't use sudo visudo) runs it with VIM.

I really don't see your problem.
All that was needed here on my box was setting VIM as my editor of
choice (I preferer to do that per-user so no setting of anything in rc
or /etc/env.d) and VISUDO accepted it. No magic involved.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Albert Hopkins]

On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 08:06 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> why is it always vim users who get their panties in a knot about
> nothing?
> 
You are likely wrong about this.  I'm willing to bet that a lot of
people, even people responding to this thread, are vim users.  However
most of us know how to set an environment variable.

What you are witnessing is one person trolling and purporting that it is
"always vim users".

> just set EDITOR, you are done. 
> 
> You might be surprised to know, that most people do not have vim
> installed. 
> But you are forcing others to adhere to something?
> 
> Things change. Maybe vim users should realize that too

I've actually never heard of any veteran Gentoo users who use vim
complain about anything.  Gentoo is *very* friendly to vim, just look
at /usr/portage/app-vim.  Maybe I've been completely blind but in the 7
years I've been using Gentoo this is the first time I've heard a vim
user "get their panties in a knot" and this can be easily discounted as
trollage.

So perhaps your apparent frustration is misdirected?

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

I really don't see your problem.
All that was needed here on my box was setting VIM as my editor of
choice (I preferer to do that per-user so no setting of anything in rc
or /etc/env.d) and VISUDO accepted it. No magic involved.


Sebastian, I already fixed the problem for my local host. But I know
other users have same problem. That's strange for me that you first
login as root to use visudo program. What is the matter of having sudo
then?

Once again, try running "sudo visudo" as unprivileged user (that's right,
sudo is used to make root stuff without logging with root ;-) )

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Joshua Murphy]

2009/10/2 Arthur D. :
>>> You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the
>>> problem:
>>>
>>> 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild
>>>        # XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default.
>>>                --with-editor=/bin/nano \
>>
>> How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use
>> if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's
>> what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted
>> state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If
>> that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting
>> virtual/editor.
>
> Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in
> vanilla sudo
> package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who have
> VIM
> installed on their shiny Gentoo systems expect that VIsudo will behave as it
> did
> for long tim ago. There are historical (or some other) reasons for making VI
> default
> editor for this utility. It's like they don't respect not only endusers
> favours but
> the developers' too, no?
>
> WHY NOT CHECK if vim binary is in place and ONLY THEN (when it's obviously
> absent)
> hardcode the Gentoo Best Award of Choice Editor?
>
> I repeat once more.
> Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra
> configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer
> other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid?
>
> --
> Best regards, Spinal

And everyone who has emacs has to do extra work too, in order to get
sudo to respect their chosen editor. Changing the default fallback for
visudo when the environment variable isn't defined will add in further
dependencies and/or put a dependency on a package that can't be
reasonably assumed to be on the system in the near future. You're not
being forced to do more work because you use vim, you're doing more
work because you remove the sane default editor from the system. As
does everyone removing nano and using pico and... how many others?
Go to LFS, build it all, build emacs, set EDITOR to emacs, and run
sudo visudo. Please. I have a rather good guess that you'll be,
amazingly, using the default that was set at build time for the sane
default editor, in LFS's case vim (whether called by that or the vi
symlink to it), that the distro creators chose. Or if you vary from
the instructions, choosing some other editor at sudo's build time,
you'll be running that. The ebuild does the logical thing in choosing
an editor that a) is in place by default and b) is less likely to be
on the system or off the system by the admin's whim. Most leave the
default in place. I suppose, really, the only more guaranteed editor
would be "busybox vi" ... because VERY few go about breaking the
default tools built into busybox... but what would that leave the many
who use nano by default, as... it IS the distro default, to do?
Compared to nano, vi (let alone a bare minimal vi like is in busybox)
is a pain to use for a person who's never seen it before.

Also, randomly, I could be wrong here, not being a sudo user myself
outside of my ubuntu laptop... but if you look into sudo ... it drops
the environment, aside from those chosen specifically to be preserved
by root, through its configuration, as a security measure. It's not an
ebuild problem, it's not a 'defaults' problem. From what you seem to
see as 'proper' behavior for sudo, it's an upstream security decision
problem.

-- 
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy
Yet another vim user.

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Joshua Murphy]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Joshua Murphy  wrote:
> 2009/10/2 Arthur D. :
 You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the
 problem:

 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild
        # XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default.
                --with-editor=/bin/nano \
>>>
>>> How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use
>>> if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's
>>> what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted
>>> state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If
>>> that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting
>>> virtual/editor.
>>
>> Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in
>> vanilla sudo
>> package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who have
>> VIM
>> installed on their shiny Gentoo systems expect that VIsudo will behave as it
>> did
>> for long tim ago. There are historical (or some other) reasons for making VI
>> default
>> editor for this utility. It's like they don't respect not only endusers
>> favours but
>> the developers' too, no?
>>
>> WHY NOT CHECK if vim binary is in place and ONLY THEN (when it's obviously
>> absent)
>> hardcode the Gentoo Best Award of Choice Editor?
>>
>> I repeat once more.
>> Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra
>> configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer
>> other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid?
>>
>> --
>> Best regards, Spinal
>
> And everyone who has emacs has to do extra work too, in order to get
> sudo to respect their chosen editor. Changing the default fallback for
> visudo when the environment variable isn't defined will add in further
> dependencies and/or put a dependency on a package that can't be
> reasonably assumed to be on the system in the near future. You're not
> being forced to do more work because you use vim, you're doing more
> work because you remove the sane default editor from the system. As
> does everyone removing nano and using pico and... how many others?
> Go to LFS, build it all, build emacs, set EDITOR to emacs, and run
> sudo visudo. Please. I have a rather good guess that you'll be,
> amazingly, using the default that was set at build time for the sane
> default editor, in LFS's case vim (whether called by that or the vi
> symlink to it), that the distro creators chose. Or if you vary from
> the instructions, choosing some other editor at sudo's build time,
> you'll be running that. The ebuild does the logical thing in choosing
> an editor that a) is in place by default and b) is less likely to be
> on the system or off the system by the admin's whim. Most leave the
> default in place. I suppose, really, the only more guaranteed editor
> would be "busybox vi" ... because VERY few go about breaking the
> default tools built into busybox... but what would that leave the many
> who use nano by default, as... it IS the distro default, to do?
> Compared to nano, vi (let alone a bare minimal vi like is in busybox)
> is a pain to use for a person who's never seen it before.
>
> Also, randomly, I could be wrong here, not being a sudo user myself
> outside of my ubuntu laptop... but if you look into sudo ... it drops
> the environment, aside from those chosen specifically to be preserved
> by root, through its configuration, as a security measure. It's not an
> ebuild problem, it's not a 'defaults' problem. From what you seem to
> see as 'proper' behavior for sudo, it's an upstream security decision
> problem.
>
> --
> Poison [BLX]
> Joshua M. Murphy
> Yet another vim user.
>

Oh! and 2 more things.

1) In answer to the subject-posed question (in case it wasn't clear in
my post just above)... yes.

2) And... your problem shouldn't be with the default set in the
ebuild, but rather, the lack of a sed line in the ebuild to adjust
sudo's initial configuration to retain, at the least, the EDITOR
environment variable. That would, were the answer to your
subject-posed question anything other than an unequivocal yes, be the
most universal resolution to the problem that you seem to think exists
in the setup as it is now. No ebuild should depend on an environment
variable like EDITOR at build time if they can, even remotely, avoid
it. That would require a rebuild every time the environment variable
changed and... that would be rather jarring to say the least.

-- 
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gnome 2.26 stable?

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Daniel Troeder schrieb:

> ALSA is not a service (it's just drivers and API). There is nothing
> running. It just loads your configuration (modules and volume levels).
> PA on the other hand does not have hardware drivers - it relies on ALSA
> or OSS for that.

thanks, already activated it successfully ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Arthur D.]

Go to LFS, build it all, build emacs, set EDITOR to emacs, and run
sudo visudo. Please. I have a rather good guess that you'll be,
amazingly, using the default that was set at build time for the sane
default editor, in LFS's case vim (whether called by that or the vi
symlink to it), that the distro creators chose.


That's right. But there are some reasons why visudo called so (do you see
that short VI?), so the user should expect it to run using vim if it's
present on system and the sudo is configured by default. That was put-up
by sudo creator in vanilla package, though it's configured in compile time.

OK. That default behaviour was changed.
Without any notification, except bash comment, in sudo ebuild.
Do you consider that to be right?

--
Best regards, Spinal

Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..

[Joshua Murphy]

2009/10/2 Arthur D. :
>> Go to LFS, build it all, build emacs, set EDITOR to emacs, and run
>> sudo visudo. Please. I have a rather good guess that you'll be,
>> amazingly, using the default that was set at build time for the sane
>> default editor, in LFS's case vim (whether called by that or the vi
>> symlink to it), that the distro creators chose.
>
> That's right. But there are some reasons why visudo called so (do you see
> that short VI?), so the user should expect it to run using vim if it's
> present on system and the sudo is configured by default. That was put-up
> by sudo creator in vanilla package, though it's configured in compile time.
>
> OK. That default behaviour was changed.
> Without any notification, except bash comment, in sudo ebuild.
> Do you consider that to be right?
>
> --
> Best regards, Spinal

Since the upstream default and the, clearly stated multiple places
(and equally clearly stated chances of it changing in the near
future), distro default differ, yes. It shouldn't be strange that a
package, when it's out of options (and given the stripping of
environment done by sudo itself, it very much is in the given
circumstances), uses the distro-defined defaults. I repeat myself from
before... every Gentoo system has vi, there just isn't a direct
symlink with that name to busybox. And.. it's called so because it
uses a visual editor, which is all "vi" in vi/vim means and I'd
presume is all it really means in visudo's name. That the package
upstream uses vi by default goes back to the days when the two base
options were vi and emacs... and let's face it, visudo is far easier
to type than emacssudo. Nano is a visual editor, emacs, joe, pico..
all of those are too. Interestingly, it *could* use a line, rather
than visual, editor, if that were set as the default... but I get the
feeling nearly everyone here would be wholly lost using ed (a
perfectly valid and capable editor, incidentally). As a counter
argument to it defaulting to using vi if vi/vim is installed ... if I
run a server with 50 users, 48 of which use emacs, one of which uses
vim, and I choose to use pico, why should I be forced to use vi for it
by default just because I have vim to satisfy someone else's desires?

--
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy