Re: How to add avatar image to BTS?
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 22:21:32 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: > > We actually have a fully federated setup, so something as simple as what > > Sune did will work: > > http://pusling.com/blog/?p=274 > In other words: All those people with proper avatars in BTS have setup > some DNS record on one of their hosts and providing an image on one of > their web servers (Jonas' hint seems to point to the same information). No, I haven't setup anything myself and just use libravatr. And I guess I'm not alone :) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Rolling Stones: Claudine2 signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: Re: Systemd
On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:52:23 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > You constant rants are getting unbearable for me. Same here. My email killfile consists of 6 lines. 3 of them are Svante's email addresses. (Yes, "don't feed the troll" doesn't work. But still. *sigh*) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Kurt Ostbahn & die Chefpartie signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: Debian calendar, events and more
On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:55:17 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Daniel Pocock (2015-02-05 20:06:22) > > I looked in a search engine for Debian calendar, events and other > > dates and couldn't really find anything that looked like a structured > > calendar. These two pages did come up though: > > > > https://www.debian.org/events/ > > > > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents > > Somewhat related is also http://timeline.debian.net/ Some .ics files I'm aware of: ctte http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/debian-ctte.git;a=blob_plain;f=meetings.ics;hb=HEAD dpl http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=dpl/dpl-helpers.git;a=blob_plain;f=meetings.ics;hb=HEAD dc-team http://www.debconf.org/calendars/DebConf-team.ics pkg-perlhttps://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/pkg-perl.ics > > Has anybody else ever looked at this concept or know of any existing > > work in this area other than the events wiki? > I am interested in this, but have no more to contribute here. Same here. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - https://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Bettina Wegner: No woman, no cry signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: How to contribute paragraphs to release notes
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:44:39 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: > we are short before the release and I wonder how it would be possible to > contribute to the release notes. There's a pseudo-package in the BTS for collecting contributions: http://bugs.debian.org/release-notes As for formats and repos, I'd start at https://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseNotes https://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals#relnotes https://wiki.debian.org/NewInJessie Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - https://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Melissa Etheridge: Heal Me signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Report from the Debian Perl Sprint at DebCamp15 (Heidelberg, August 2015)
Debian Perl Group Rolling Sprint at DebCamp 2015 Introduction The Debian Perl Group conducted a "Rolling Sprint" during DebCamp 2015 in Heidelberg from 2015-08-10 - 2015-08-14. The term "Rolling Sprint" describes an event that extended over the whole DebCamp week with the opportunity for people to "hop on" and "hop off" for one or more days. This made it possible for persons who had more plans for DebCamp than one single area of work to participate according to their availability. The structure of the "Rolling Sprint" was: * A daily meeting after breakfast, where people coordinate the work for this day; * people working on their selected tasks over the day, alone, in pairs, in groups; * short reports about the achieved work in the next morning meeting. Altogether 8 people took part in one or more of the coordination meetings and/or work sessions: XTaran, ansgar, bremner, carnil, fsfs, gregoa, intrigeri, kanashiro. The participants would like to thank the [sponsors][] of DebConf15 and the DebConf Team for making this sprint possible. [sponsors]: http://debconf15.debconf.org/sponsors.xhtml git and patches - git-debcherry === Following up in the discussions and work done at the [pkg-perl BoF at DebConf14][BOF2014] and the [Debian Perl Sprint in May 2015][SprintBCN2015], more work was done on experimenting with our workflow regarding patches in git, especially around git-debcherry. [BOF2014]: https://lists.debian.org/debian-perl/2014/08/msg00044.html [SprintBCN2015]: https://lists.debian.org/debian-perl/2015/07/msg9.html On Tuesday afternoon, bremner gave a demo of git-debcherry in combination with ntyni's [tools][]. [tools]: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-perl/scripts.git/tree/debcherry A newer git-debcherry with improvements (especially around git-notes) was uploaded during DebCamp, fixing two bugs: * [#784130](https://bugs.debian.org/784130): ping maintainer, patch seems ready. * [#784159](https://bugs.debian.org/784159): style updates to patch, sign-off on new feature. In the following discussion, several issues and questions were raised: * Minor glitches in the scripts, which were fixed later in the week by fsfs. * The main question is still: How to work on a git-debcherried package without buying into git-debcherry? * Brainstorming: commit patches on a specific branch (or on master), allow people to work there, create tooling to import changes / new patches from this branch back into master (at `dpt checkout` time?). Maybe with a special header "X-Generated-By: git-debcherry" to filter? * If we had a patch branch: - when/how to write to this branch? when: commit at sign/tag/upload time - when/how to re-import into master manually created patches? * gbp doesn't fetch notes yet (bug report by XTaran, bremner will write a patch): [#786607](https://bugs.debian.org/786607) - in the meantime, `dpt-checkout` and our `.mrconfig` fetch the notes refs In the following days fsfs converted two packages to use git-debcherry and on the way improved the [tools][]. The exported quilt patches are committed on master in debian/patches, so the git checkout is identical to the source package with no magic going on at build time. Working on one of those packages with quilt while ignoring git-debcherry requires an extra step to make the already-applied patches known to quilt, and may in turn force the next developer to take additional measures to reintegrate that work with git-debcherry. The need for both is readily apparent, however, and no work is lost permanently, so this looks like a promising way to a new, git-centric workflow. Work on individual packages === * [#732725](https://bugs.debian.org/732725) (libogre-perl FTBFS) → [#795067](https://bugs.debian.org/795067) (RM; RoM) [abe] * [#794963](https://bugs.debian.org/794963) (Net::XMPP warnings under setuid/root): Tried to reproduce [abe] * libdatetime-timezone-perl: update to Olson db 2015f in sid, jessie, wheezy * [#791507](https://bugs.debian.org/791507): new upstream version [bremner], uploaded to Debian [carnil] * Update liburi-perl and libcatalyst-perl (fixes an RC bug). * libglib-perl: cleaned up patches, split some, and forwarded them all upstream. * dh-dist-zilla, libdist-zilla-perl, etc. QA work across packages === * Update *many* packages to new upstream versions. [kanashiro] * Run [DUCK](http://duck.debian.net/) over all packages. Bug triaging * Forward bugs reports upstream. * Ping upstream bug reports for RC bugs / Perl 5.22 transition problems. * Report new bugs from going through the [reproducible build logs][rb]. * Go through [ci.debian.net][ci] failures, fix packages, file bugs. [rb]: https://reproducible.debian.net/unstable/amd64/pkg_set_maint_pkg-perl-maintainers.html [ci]: http://ci.debian.net/ PET/repository maintenance -
Report from the Debian Perl Group sprint at DebCamp 2016
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 23:48:20 +0200, gregor herrmann wrote:
> > The Debian Perl Group is planning to hold a sprint at DebCamp in
> > Cape Town.
> The correct URL is of course
> https://wiki.debian.org/Sprints/2016/DebianPerlDebCamp
And here's a brief report from the sprint (also available in our
website.git):
Debian Perl Group Rolling Sprint at DebCamp 2016
Introduction
The Debian Perl Group conducted a "Rolling Sprint" during DebCamp 2016 in
Cape Town from 2016-06-23 - 2016-07-01.
The term "Rolling Sprint" describes an event that extended over the whole
DebCamp week with the opportunity for people to "hop on" and "hop off" for
one or more days. This made it possible for persons who had more plans
for DebCamp than one single area of work to participate according to their
availability.
The structure of the "Rolling Sprint" was:
* A(n almost) daily coordination meeting after lunch, where people
coordinate the work for this day;
* people working on their selected tasks over the day, alone, in pairs, in
groups;
* a progress report at the next meeting to summarize and document the results.
Altogether 4 people took part in one or more of the 4 coordination meetings
and/or work sessions: bremner, carnil, gregoa, intrigeri.
The participants would like to thank the [sponsors][] of DebConf16 and the
DebConf Team for making this sprint possible.
[sponsors]: https://debconf16.debconf.org/sponsors/
Tools
-
* pkg-perl-tools:
- add `update` option to `dpt-upstream-repo`; this is now used in our
`.mrconfig`
- `patchedit`: always set Last-Updated to mtime of patch
- examples/check-build: update to work with adt-run and autopkgtest
* dh-make-perl: new release:
- now a native package
- split into 2 binary packages: dh-make-perl and libdebian-source-perl
- several bug fixes
QA tasks across packages
* Subscribe our Launchpad team, ~pkg-perl-maintainers, to all bugs
concerning packages we maintain.
* Git repos cleanup (propose to remove packages from Git that were injected
but never finished for upload).
* Drop Mouse deprecation from our [TODO][] list: it's actually still somewhat
maintained,
and lots of packages still use it.
* Go through our RC bugs and propose package removals:
<https://lists.debian.org/debian-perl/2016/06/msg00038.html>
* NMU a cpuple of non-team-maintained dependencies with RC bugs (dh compat 4)
to avoid testing autoremovals of our packages.
* Change repackaging framework from repack.{stub,local} to Files-Excluded
for all packages except a couple special cases. Update [repacking.pod][]
documentation as well.
* Change (even more) URLs in debian/upstream/metadata to use HTTPS.
* Checked -perl packages affected by the [GCC 6 transition]: everything
seems fine or already tracked upstream. Fix [#816571].
[TODO]: https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianPerlGroup/OpenTasks
[repackaging.pod]: https://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/repacking.html
[GCC 6 transition]:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=ftbfs-gcc-6;users=debian-...@lists.debian.org
[#816571]: https://bugs.debian.org/816571
Packages / bugs / uploads
-
* Fix [#828181][] in libmojolicious-perl in git.
* Update libdatetime-timezone-perl to Olson db 2016e in unstable and stable.
* Review half a dozen new packages, upload one, set others to UNRELEASED.
* Review another half dozen new packages, upload most, ask one question.
* Prepare dependencies for new libmessage-passing-zeromq-perl.
* Debug libgtk2-perl FTBFS on powerpc.
* New libio-socket-ssl-perl upload to unstable.
* File and fix [#829066][], [#829064][], thanks [ci.debian.net][CI].
* Debug libdevel-gdb-perl brittle test a bit ([#784845][]).
* Fixed a few FTBFS on the reproducible builds infrastructure:
libnet-route-perl, ...
[#828181]: https://bugs.debian.org/828181
[#829066]: https://bugs.debian.org/829066
[#829064]: https://bugs.debian.org/829064
[CI]: https://ci.debian.net
[#784845]: https://bugs.debian.org/784845
Reproducible builds
---
Made these packages build reproducibly:
* libgoo-canvas-perl
* libgtk2-perl
* libgnome2-perl
* libmarpa-r2-perl
* [#828635][] in libnet-tclink-perl
* [#828636][] in libembperl-perl
* latexdiff ([#814019][])
* libnanomsg-raw-perl
As of 2016-07-01, we're down to a mere 7 team-maintained packages not building
reproducibly.
[#828635]: https://bugs.debian.org/828635
[#828636]: https://bugs.debian.org/828636
[#814019]: https://bugs.debian.org/814019
Resources
=
* Announcement:
[Wiki](https://wiki.debian.org/Sprints/2016/DebianPerlDebCamp),
[email](https://lists.debian.org/debian-perl/2016/06/msg00018.html)
* Notes:
[Gobby](infinote://gobby.debian.org/Teams/Perl/Team-Sprint-Debcamp-2016)
[GobbyWeb](https://gobby.debian.org/export/Teams/Perl/Tea
Re: Debian infrastructure in the EU / copyright challenges
On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 11:02:51 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > Not found nor apparently even linked anywhere on the EFF site, they seem to > refer to http://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/document.cfm?doc_id=17200 Thanks for digging up this document. > # Article 13 > # > # Use of protected content by information society service providers storing > # and giving access to large amounts of works and other subject matter > # uploaded by their users Question 1: What are "information society service providers"? This is not defined in this document, but it refers (on page 20) to "Directive 2000/31/EC" [0] which is about e-commerce and says (on page 3): The definition of information society services already exists in Community law in Directive 98/34/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 June 1998 laying down a procedure for the provision of information in the field of technical standards and regulations and of rules on information society services (4) and in Directive 98/84/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 November 1998 on the legal protection of services based on, or consisting of, conditional access (5); this definition covers any service normally provided for remuneration, at a distance, by means of electronic equipment … I don't think that Debian falls under this regime (we don't do e-commerce for remuneration). (18) mentions all kinds of non-remunerated activities but it still talks about "a wide range of economic activities which take place on-line". (19) again talks about "pursuit of an economic activity … place of establishment of a company". And Art.2 "Definitions" (c) finally reads: ‘established service provider’: a service provider who effectively pursues an economic activity using a fixed establishment for an indefinite period. The presence and use of the technical means and technologies required to provide the service do not, in themselves, constitute an establishment of the provider; Question 2: What about the "uploads by their users"? Since Debian doesn't allow random people to upload random stuff to its servers which Debian then promotes, I think this also doesn't apply. Cheers, gregor [0] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32000L0031&from=EN -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at/ - Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- BOFH excuse #119: evil hackers from Serbia.
Re: Automatic downloading of non-free software by stuff in main
On Thu, 07 Dec 2017 08:16:47 -0500, Paul R. Tagliamonte wrote:
> Restricting the execution of files one downloads or disabling macros on
> word documents you download and open would be a huge security win.
I'm skeptical, at least if this leads to more of the
well-known-and-much-despised "Do you really want to …?" popups where
almost everyone just looks for the "Gee, yes, leave me alone, stupid
computer!" button.
From my practical experience with inferior operating systems, I can
add that those warnings are often stupidly wrong ("My file server is
not the evil internet", "Yes I really sent this attachment to
myself", …), and in general usually I don't download files just to
fill my disk but in order to open and use them one way or another.
Cheers,
gregor
--
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`- NP: Tanita Tikaram: Love Don't Need No Tyranny
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Re: Conflict escalation and discipline
On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 17:55:03 +0300, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-04-18 at 15:51 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > Lars Wirzenius writes ("Re: Conflict escalation and discipline"):
> > > This implies to me that, at the least, "anti-harassment" is the wrong
> > > name for a team that deals with this.
> > That's certainly true. I thought of these ideas:
> "Debian emotional support group", maybe.
> But maybe wait with the naming until there's a clear description of
> what the group is reponsible for.
Ack. I think that's the main point.
It seems that we're having this discussion every second year,
roughly, which seems to indicate that we need "something". And it
seems to me that what we're struggling with is to define what this
"something" really is.
I found Ian's brainstorming about possible names in the previous
email quite instructive because the names and his comments on them
show the spectrum of possible "somethings" quite well:
Are we looking for a court which rules on violations of rules; a
counseling body for contributors who want to get advice in unpleasant
situations; a mediating/conflict management instituation for helping
multiple parties who have a controversy; etc.? IOW: Are we looking for
"judges", "psychologists", "social workers", etc.?
Or: As Lars said (and I extend, if I may): What should the
responsibilities, tasks, and powers of such a team be?
Ian explained his ideas ("disputes/conflict", "promote healing",
"disciplinary mechanism/decisions") in his thread starter. Maybe we
can go back there and try to find a common view before thinking about
existing insitutions, names for the new one, etc.
Cheers,
gregor
--
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Re: GR proposal: mandating VcsGit and VcsBrowser for all packages, using the "gbp patches unapplied" layout, and maybe also mandating hosted on Salsa
On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:23:42 +, Scott Kitterman wrote: > We are > perfectly capable of phasing out obsolete workflows without a > hammer like a GR (remember dpatch). Unrelated to the general topic but since you mention it: Yes I remember dpatch -- it's not phased out, I just encountered it a few days ago. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe `- signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: Using Debian funds to support a gcc development task
On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 12:22:21 +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > On 9/29/19 12:13 PM, Hector Oron wrote: > >> Not sure what the problem with LTS is. I thought companies pay for the > >> extra effort. I think it's a perfectly fine business model. > > As a very simple summary, companies pay another company (Debian > > unrelated) to use Debian volunteers time and Debian resources. > > Debian does not get any share of that work. > If the work is being paid, it's not volunteers time. That doesn't make sense. LTS uses the volunteer time of all Debian contributors and teams affected by it (security team, ftp-master, buildd admins, DSA, …). > You could argue about Debian resources being used without paying Debian. Those resources are operated by volunteers. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Alanis Morissette: Joining You signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th 2020
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 21:44:09 +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote: > On 2020/02/18 21:15, Daniel Lange wrote: > >> […] I think the current DebConf committee > >> should strongly consider […] > >> keep the bid decision public as it was in prior DebConfs. > > We held public review meetings for the DC21 bids. You did not care to > > show up for either of them. > That's good, the desire to have it public does not equate to a desire or > need for me to be there. IMO it's just important that this doesn't > happen behind closed doors again like last time. AFAICS the process for DC20 and DC21 seems to be the same: - public review meetings for the bids - a private decision meeting of the committee I'd be happy to learn that my impression about the planned procedure for the DC21 decision is wrong, I might easily have missed something. Personally I much prefer public decisions. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Peter Ratzenbeck: Frosty & Cold signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: Announcing miniDebConf Montreal 2020 -- August 6th to August 9th 2020
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 09:51:13 +0100, Ulrike Uhlig wrote: > Is the decision making process clearly documented somewhere? I don't think so … > Is the decision making body documented somewhere, i.e. ewhere can I find > out who is part of the committee? And how can people join this body? The DebConf Committee is delegated by the DPL: https://www.debian.org/intro/organization.en.html (also with members) and is reposible for this decision: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/11/msg3.html Cheers, gregor -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Pink Floyd: Another Brick In The Wall (part 1) signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: Ynt: Raspberry Pi - Default Language
On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 15:20:52 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > The screenshots of the YouTube video showing the setup of the Raspberry > Pi don't look like the normal Debian installer. Also the phrases that > appear in the screenshots don't seem to appear in any Debian package: > > https://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=Welcome+to+Raspberry+Pi&literal=1 > https://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=Enter+the+details+of+your+location.&literal=1 > https://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=Press+%27Next%27+when+you+have+made+your+selection&literal=1 > > It seems like this is the YouTube video your screenshots are from: > > https://youtu.be/sCtTj_7zsZA (seek to 14:26) I think these images are from the initial setup of the PIXEL desktop environment used by the Raspberry PI OS. Cf. https://itsfoss.com/raspberry-pi-os-desktop/ https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/raspberry-pi-set-up-how-to,6029.html Cheers, gregor -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe `- BOFH excuse #158: Defunct processes
Re: Tone policing by a member of the community team [Was, Re: Statement regarding Richard Stallman's readmission to the FSF board]
On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 01:28:45 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: > On Wed, 2021-04-07 at 21:38 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > > I wonder, though -- do we have a Nazi anywhere in the project? Could you > > point to one? > Although I really prefer not to have them in the project, its is not the > Debian project's task to rule about political believs, opinions, religions, > fetishes and whatever else. I agree to a certain degree; as far as we talk about opinions or beliefs, but (leftist slogan:) "fascism is not an opinion, it's a crime" or (more verbose): I don't want to be in the same community as people who deny other people their basic human dignity or (more direct) who don't consider others as humans and want to kill them or see them dead. And that's what Nationalsozialismus and facism is about. [0] Cheers, gregor [0] It gets a bit more complicated when differentiating between "classic" Nazis and neo-nazis and old Italian fascists and neo-facists and national conservatives and the (old) "Nouvelle Droite" and the "Neue Rechte" and the "Identitäre" and all kinds of right-wing extremists and right-wing populist and "autoritärer Nationalradikalismus" … But in the end it boils down to the "Ideologie der Ungleicheit", i.e. the belief that some people are more valuable than others. -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Donovan: The little tin soldier signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: On terminology
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 00:14:03 +0300, Faidon Liambotis wrote: > Nowadays, we're asking people to become Maintainers so that they can > become Debian Maintainers and *then* apply to the New Maintainer's > process so that they can become Debian Developers. And when their DD account is created they get a mail with the subject "New Debian maintainer $name". :) (At least that's what I got 2+ years ago.) > Am I the only one who has trouble -and getting laughed at- whenever I > try to explain these to potential contributors? No. > Can we _at least_ rename the NM process to be indicative of what it is? It probably needs more; and it probably makes more fun and sense to combine it with changes in membership structures itself, in case someone picks up this discussion again. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: The Doors: Touch Me signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: On terminology
On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 19:32:33 +0200, Christoph Berg wrote: > Re: Steve Langasek 2010-07-05 <20100705164805.ga26...@dario.dodds.net> > > I haven't seen anyone propose a good name that it can be changed *to*. > > Shouldn't that be the first step? > It would probably be "New Developer". But before everyone rushes to > update lots of documents, let's try to implement some of the changes > to membership like "Debian Contributor". I'm sure along that route lie > more naming updates that would make work done now redundant. +1 I think changing one name now, and then having to change several terms again if the membership process gets reformed is a waste of time now. _If_ the membership stuff is changed; is anybody working on this issue currently? Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Johnny Cash: Nobody signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP-5 meta: New co-driver; current issues
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:08:07 +1000, Craig Small wrote: > > You're not required to use it. If you want to improve the format, please > > make concrete proposals, or at least explain why it is complicated and > I actually second Bernd's comments. It seems uneccessarily complex and > so very much harder to read. FWIW: I find it much easier to read than some free-form prose where I have to hunt down the relevant bits. IMO the main advantage is actually that it's human-readable. (Which doesn't mean it can't be improved or simplified.) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-BOFH excuse #78: Yes, yes, its called a design limitation signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [DEP5] [patch] Renaming the ‘Maintainer’ field ‘Contact’
On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 16:25:39 +1200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > On pe, 2010-08-13 at 20:43 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > > Am I missing some other Debian document somewhere that says we should be > > providing upstream contact information in debian/copyright? > There's also the Homapage: field in the package description. > > I don't have a use case for a Maintainer/Contact field in > debian/copyright. Can anyone bring one up? I remember CPAN maintainers (sic!) being interested in the status of their modules in Debian. Without a Maintainer (or whatever) field in d/copyright (or somewhere else but I don't know a better place) we are not able to provide a mapping for that. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-BOFH excuse #237: Plate voltage too low on demodulator tube signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [DEP5] [patch] Renaming the ‘Maintainer’ field ‘Contact’
On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:09:16 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > gregor herrmann writes: > > I remember CPAN maintainers (sic!) being interested in the status of > > their modules in Debian. Without a Maintainer (or whatever) field in > > d/copyright (or somewhere else but I don't know a better place) we are > > not able to provide a mapping for that. > I can definitely see the desire for this metadata, but it feels to me like > it would be better tracked in a separate file, such as Charles's proposed > upstream metadata file. Thanks for the reminder, I should look into this proposal again. (Although yet another file doesn't make me happy either.) > This feels like an unreliable way to provide that mapping anyway, since > people's e-mail addresses and even the forms of their names vary over > time, and I'm not sure you'd reliably get the right data. I think you'd > want to have a field somewhere where you can track people by CPAN ID, > which wouldn't change. Good idea for this use case. On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:18:01 +1200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > Would the Homepage: field that points at the module's CPAN page be good > enough? Not really, unless a maintainer only has one module which is rather the exception than the rule. > On the other hand, the field currently known as Maintainer: is already > optional, so it's OK to leave it out, and when it's useful to, say, > pkg-perl, it can be added. Russ, since you objected to it, what do you > think? I'm fine with both having it as an optional field or not mentioned in the spec but "only" used by those interested. (The former option having the advantage of having the field names more uniform.) > About renaming it: I feel it would be better to be explicit that it's an > upstream thing. Thus, Upstream-Maintainer or Upstream-Contact, and > perhaps also renaming Name: to Upstream-Name: at the same time. What do > others think? I agree, the "old" Upstream-* fields were clearer, therefore I'm in favour of switching back to them. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-BOFH excuse #77: Typo in the code signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [DEP5] [patch] Renaming the ‘Maintainer’ field ‘Contact’
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:24:07 +1200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > I don't think they're required by Policy or the ftpmasters. At least the > pkg-perl team is using Maintainer/Upstream-Contact. I don't think they > use Name/Upstream-Name. Just as a data point: We are using both (Upstream-)Maintainer and (Upstream-)Name; I guess we started this because they were both in the earlier DEP5 spec :) > It's reasonable to expect the package > description to mention the upstream name if it differs from the Debian > package name, and that would make Upstream-Name somewhat unnecessary. A structured field makes it easier to parse; but as I said earlier, if we decide to keep (and at some point use) them we still can do so, if additional fields are allowed. Let's see what others say ... Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: JBO: Schlumpfozid im Stadtgebiet signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP-5: general file syntax
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:05:23 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > That also lets the rule with License be consistent with the rule for other > fields, by requiring two leading spaces for any literal text. It also > means that we would be using essentially the same formatting conventions > as Description (Policy 5.6.13). I agree, saying "same formatting as in Description in debian/control" makes it easier than having to remember different syntaxes. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band: Thunder Road signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP-5: Comment field
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:18:17 +1200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > Does anyone want hash comments to be allowed in debian/copyright? Are > they useful? I don't think I've ever used (or wanted to use) them. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Kante: Im ersten Licht (Sung by Fréderique of Ming) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP-5: Files field and filename patterns
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:39:54 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > > * Are find -name/-path globs a better idea than .gitignore? > > * Are shell-style globs the right idea? Should we use Perl regular > > expressions on the entire pathname instead? > I think that we can, and should, keep the rest of the syntax simple by using > only the shell wildcards ‘?’ and ‘*’. I have not worked on any package where a > more complex syntax would be needed. I agree that shell globs are probably the easiest way both to write (without checking pattern rules) and test (with a simple `ls'). [0] When I look at gitignore(5) I find in the example: # ignore objects and archives, anywhere in the tree. *.[oa] I don't think the "anywhere in the tree" part is desirable for debian/copyright. > Adding an exclusion syntax with ‘!’ has some use, but it would be to the > expense of being able to paste the field's value, and between the two I prefer > being able to paste. I haven't missed the exclusions so far, but I don't mind them either. Cheers, gregor [0] I've fact I've written shell-style patterns free-handedly so far and hoped that they would also be valid for `find' :) -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Canti Sociali: Bandiera rossa signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP-5: Files field and filename patterns
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:19:21 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > >I've fact I've written shell-style patterns free-handedly so far and > >hoped that they would also be valid for `find' :) > Did you actually test your expressions with "find -path"? No, that's what I meant with "hoped" :) > I discovered at some point that all entries need a trailing ./ - > e.g. debian/control is not valid - it needs to be expressed > ./debian/control Oops, that means that probably (almost) all debian/copyright files in the Perl group are invalid at the moment. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Carole King: Eventually signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP5: X-Autobuild
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 23:19:48 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > X-Autobuild was a poor choice. My current opinion is that, unless there > is an interest to parse a specific field, it it better to use existing > ones, in that case Comment or Disclaimer. Agreed, Disclaimer should fit the purpose of explanation fine. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP5: Making "Files: *" non-optional
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:53:47 +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > * **`Files`** >* Required for all but the first paragraph. > If omitted from the first paragraph, > this is equivalent to a value of '*'. > > Does anyone oppose if I remove the "If omitted..." sentence? I see no > reason to make the format unnecessarily complicated by having it > optional. Agreed. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: The Mamas & The Papas: Dancing In The Street signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: commercial spam on planet
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 01:23:51 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > I disagree that this thread is flattr-specific. /me too. > It clearly is the most cited example, most likely because is what we all > have in mind and because Flattr is quite popular these days. Still, I > don't think anybody is trying to decide a policy about flattr only. > Rather, I think we're taking the chance that recent flattr experiences > have given us to establish a more general policy. A policy on what exactly? Or, in other words: I'm not sure what the actual contents of this thread is at the moment. Topics/issues I've seen so far: * commercial activities (flattr, adsense, ...) * webbugs/tracking (flattr, feedburner, ...) * annoying footers with images (flattr, social networks, ...) My impression is that these (and probably more) issues are mixed, which doesn't make the discussion easier ... Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Pink Floyd: The trial signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP5: copyright statement form, etc
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 20:12:15 +, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > * Should we suggest people keep the upstream copyright statements > verbatim, including the word "Copyright" or c-in-a-circle or whatever? > Or should we suggest that they can also shorten them to, say, "2010, J. > Random Hacker"? I'm fine with either. Currently the examples use the > shortened form, so there's an implicit suggestion, but should be > explicit about it? Or change the examples? Opinions? I prefer the shortened form; for me having it in the examples without explicitly mandating it would be enough. > * At the moment the License field's description says the first line can > only be a single short name, but the intention is clearly that it can be > an arbitrary "license shortname expression", with examples given later > in the document. Would everyone be OK if I change it to say "First line: > an abbreviated name for the license, or expression giving alternatives > (see *Short names* section for a list of standard abbreviations)." > instead? Fine with me. > The editorial changes, plus these two items, are the final things left > for DEP5, except for the review for licenses, shortnames and SPDX > compatibility. \o/ Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Peter, Paul & Mary: Wedding Song signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP5: License section
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 19:54:06 +, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > * Add a mention of and link to SPDX to the "License specifications" > chapter. > > ## SPDX > > [SPDX](http://spdx.org/) is an attempt to standardize a format > for communicating the components, licenses and copyrights > associated with a software package. It and the machine-readable > debian/control format attempt to be somewhat compatible. > However, the two formats have different aims, and so the formats > are different. s~debian/control~debian/copyright~ /me agrees to (or can't answer) the other points of your mail. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Bettina Wegner: Die Beiden signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP5: License section
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 21:36:21 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > For DEP5: > http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5 > - SPDX does not contain the CC0, Expat, nor Perl licenses. I thought the "Perl" license was removed already? TTBOMK there is no such thing as a "Perl license", the usual "under the same terms as Perl itself" clause translates to "Artistic or GPL-1+". Which leads me to 3 other observations on the mentioned URL: * "This is a dual-licensed GPL/Artistic work such as Perl: License: GPL-2+ or Artistic-2.0" looks wrong, perl is TTBOMK licensed under Artistic (=1) or GPL 1 or later * "Perl Perl license (equates to “GPL-1+ or Artistic-1" besides the missing closing parenthesis: I vaguely remember that the Artistic license (usually without the "1" suffix [0]) was referred to as 'Artistic' without any version. * The link in "For versions, consult the Perl Foundation" doesn't lead to the expected page. [0] Cf. e.g. http://www.opensource.org/licenses/artistic-license.php Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-Live long and prosper. -- Spock, "Amok Time", stardate 3372.7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101216130812.ge4...@colleen.colgarra.priv.at
Re: DEP5: License section
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:38:47 +, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > On to, 2010-12-16 at 14:08 +0100, gregor herrmann wrote: > > * The link in "For versions, consult the Perl Foundation" doesn't > > lead to the expected page. > Can you give a good link? For the Artistic License: http://dev.perl.org/licenses/artistic.html Or, if we want the Perl Foundation and/or both Artistic and Artistic 2.0: http://www.perlfoundation.org/artistic_license_1_0 http://www.perlfoundation.org/artistic_license_2_0 Or for one page that links to both: http://www.perlfoundation.org/legal For the (not existing) Perl License: http://dev.perl.org/licenses/ which links to http://dev.perl.org/licenses/artistic.html and http://dev.perl.org/licenses/gpl1.html Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Bettina Wegner: Fleißig reichlich glücklich signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: dep5, whats the status?
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 11:51:59 +, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > Those who > already use some revision, such as pkg-perl, should stick to what they > are using now. Agreed, and the fact that r135 in svn hasn't changed for some time (and the development happened somewhere else) was actually helpful for us :) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Rolling Stones: Wild Horses signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP5: CANDIDATE and ready for use in squeeze+1
On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 20:42:29 +0100, Dominique Dumont wrote: > As a bonus, Config::Model will be able to migrate copyright files from older > specification to the new spec. Very cool! I'm looking forward to using it. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Paul McCartney: Young Boy signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP5 CANDIDATE parser/editor/validator/migrator is released in libconfig-model-perl
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:47:53 +0100, Dominique Dumont wrote: > The new version of libconfig-model-perl 1.229 is now available in Sid. This > new version provides a model of DEP-5 updated according to the CANDIDATE > version. (Among other features [1], like editor/validator for debian/control). > > The DEP-5 editor must be run in the source package directory (I'll provide an > example below) with the following command: > > config-edit -application dpkg-copyright I just tried it on a random package, and it works great; thanks, Dominique! This will make the life of everyone with "old" DEP5 d/copyright files much easier. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Paul McCartney & Wings: Ballrooom Dancing signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP5: CANDIDATE and ready for use in squeeze+1
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:14:01 +1100, Ben Finney wrote: > > (Of course, the Source field is also redundant for a great many > > packages where it would be the same URL that goes in debian/control's > > Homepage field. IIRC, the hope is that policy is eventually changed to > > not require the copyright have that redundant information.) > I disagree on that point. The home page of the project is a different > fact from the description of where the source was obtained. If they > happen to be the same, that doesn't obviate recording both facts. In theory, yes. In practice, in my experience most packages have exactly the same URL (maybe with one path part more or less) in debian/control, debian/copyright and debian/watch. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: George Harrison: My Sweet Lord signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP5: CANDIDATE and ready for use in squeeze+1
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 01:41:47 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > >In practice, in my experience most packages have exactly the same > >URL (maybe with one path part more or less) in debian/control, > >debian/copyright and debian/watch. > In my experience it can be hard to actually find upstream source > based on info in debian/copyright due to too sloppy referencing! > > ...sometimes even upstream tarball releases can be hard to locate, > but mostly such trouble occur when the Debian package is not based > on upstream tarball releases but instead on a VCS snapshot and the > VCS hosting isn't prominently advertised upstream. Sure, I've also encountered these cases; that's why I said "_most_ packages" :) > So I really appreciate when care has been taken to add the relevant > subdir or whatever makes that Upstream-Source URL different from the > Homepage URL. Definitively, and I also appreciate it when someone makes it easy for me. I was just commenting on the many cases with the dupli- or triplication of the info. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Pink Floyd: Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts 1-5) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Report from this years CeBIT
On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 22:38:15 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > > mendeley (some sort of citing > > application, if I remember correctly) > Sadly, Mendeley is not free: http://www.mendeley.com/terms/ (point 4). > To my knowledge, there is is no direct equivalent of Mendeley in Debian, > although for the integation with Open… LibreOffice, we have Bibus that does a > good job. But it is a local application. The packaging of Zotero (ITP #504058) > will certainly please Mendeley users, as there seems to be a good > complementarity between them. Another local thingie is jabref-plugin-oo, an extension for JabRef to handle bibliography entries in OOe writer / LO writer: http://packages.debian.org/sid/jabref-plugin-oo (I don't know bibus but reading it's description it sounds similar to jabref/-plugin-oo.) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-You're dead, Jim. -- McCoy, "Amok Time", stardate 3372.7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110308135506.gg26...@colleen.colgarra.priv.at
Re: git-copyright-scan: find authors missing from DEP-5 debian/copyright
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 12:21:49 +0300, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: > Could we compare git log against debian/copyright? git-copyright-scan is > a proof-of-concept that tries to locate authors that are listed in git > log but are missing from DEP-5 debian/copyright. While I'm in favour of making managing coypright/license stuff easier, there's another problem with this approach: Authors (and committers) are not necessary copyright holders, so I'm not sure if this really helps; maybe as a hint to take a closer look ... Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Supertramp: It's Raining Again signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: git-copyright-scan: find authors missing from DEP-5 debian/copyright
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:51:25 +0300, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: > Yaroslav Halchenko writes: > > That is true, but since it doesn't have to be mandatory to use > > git-copyright-scan, it could simply be a helper for some projects were > > authors do retain the copyright . > Exactly. git-copyright-scan could also read a mapping that describes how > authors relate to copyright holders. Such a mapping might be required > anyway since some people use usernames in git log but want to have a > full name in debian/copyright. Great, I'm all for helpers, and if this aspect is taken into consideration it might really be helpful :) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Cat Stevens: Sweet Jamaica signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Ethnographic study on Debian. Thanks to the Debian Community
On Wed, 11 May 2011 20:23:36 +0200, Fernando González de Requena wrote: > So I would like to share it with the debian community. It is written in > Spanish, so I guess it will not be widely read. Anyway, I would be happy > with any comments, criticisms, suggestions, ... > You can download it from the Institutional Repository of my University, > UNED, that participates in the Open Access movement. The link: > http://e-spacio.uned.es/fez/view.php?pid=bibliuned:500405 Thanks for sharing your work, and congratulations on finishing this paper! > I hope to see you again in Banja Luka. I hope to see you presenting your work there :) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - PGP/GPG key ID: 0x8649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Michael Penn: Lucky One signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Finishing DEP 5.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:33:21 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > the machine-readable format for Debian copyright files proposed in > DEP 5 has been stable for many monthes, is supported by multiple parsers and > Lintian, and is getting frequently used in new packages (at least from what I > see from debian-mentors, debian-med and debian-perl). I think that it is time > to wrap it up and publish it. Totally agreed. > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=debian-policy;include=subject%3Acopyright-format > > In particular, one of the current bottlenecks is the lack of “seconds”, I'm happy to re-check and second proposal; I just have to admit that I'm quite confused which of the bugs actually needs seconds. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key ID: 0x8649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Kurt Ostbahn & Kombo: Liegn oda knian signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP-5: Clarifying copyright/license requirements
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:30:48 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: > Confusing or not, I think this really needs to be addressed. It's *the* > problem that people are running into in evaluating the format, and there > is a ton of negative discussion of DEP-5 out there based on the idea that > it's so much harder than the existing copyright format because of > additional required information. This appears to be what people are > talking about. Yup, maybe a disclaimer would help to get over these concerns. > Maybe the easiest way through this impasse is to just say explicitly in > DEP-5 that only the license and copyright information required by the > Debian archive policy is required here, and that while the format *allows* > more information to be provided if one desires, it does not *require* any > of that. This is probably going to require special language around the > case of a Files: * stanza. I'd rather add a disclaimer/preface at the beginning that says in BIG FRIENDLY LETTERS that DEP5 is only about formatting and doesn't change any requirements (which are [or should be] spelt out in policy). Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Roy Orbison signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DEP-5: Clarifying copyright/license requirements
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:29:29 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: > > I'd rather add a disclaimer/preface at the beginning that says in BIG > > FRIENDLY LETTERS that DEP5 is only about formatting and doesn't change > > any requirements (which are [or should be] spelt out in policy). > It turns out that there's already something there at the start: I knew there mus be something like that, thanks for digging it out! > This is not a proposal to change the policy in the short term. In > particular, nothing in this proposal supersedes or modifies any of the > requirements specified in Debian Policy regarding the appropriate > detail or granularity to use when documenting copyright and license > status in debian/copyright. > > but I don't think people have read that as saying what we're trying to say > above, although I believe that's the intention. Maybe because it > conflates two things: a change in Policy, and not requiring additional > information. Ack, the first sentence is talking about something else than the rest. It migh be clearer to leave it out and start with "Nothing in ..." or rephrase it a bit: This proposal does not modify any of the requirements specified in Debian Policy regarding the appropriate detail or granularity to use when documenting copyright and license status in debian/copyright. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 20:38:39 +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: > I can think of another thing that we care about, which I don't see > mentioned here: "We expect people to be constructive members of the > community." Agreed. And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these values, e.g. people with a racist, sexist, ... behaviour. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 13:25:41 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > >> And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these > >> values, e.g. people with a racist, sexist, ... behaviour. > > Why? > You can't have an open and welcoming environment if you're open to people > who work to make the environment non-welcoming to others. > [..] Inclusivity does mean telling people who are not willing > to allow others to be included that they should find a different project > to be part of. Thanks for putting my thought into better words than I could do. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 13:17:42 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these
> > values, e.g. people with a racist, sexist, ... behaviour.
> While I certainly agree, I think it's best to leave the latter implicit in
> the statement of what we *do* accept, since otherwise one can easily get
> caught up in one of the more annoying derailing arguments ("you're
> intolerant of my intolerance!").
Yup, that's the old question (limits of tolerance, or of democracy
[0]).
> After all, if we have a project
> diversity statement, the obvious implication is that the members of the
> project should pay attention to it as a guide for how to interact with
> people.
Ok, if it's obvious enough, and the statement is about the positive
side (what we _do_ welcome), my footnote is maybe really uncalled
for.
Cheers,
gregor
[0] cf. the concept of "Streitbare Demokratie" in Germany:
"The idea behind the concept is the notion that even a majority of
the people cannot be allowed to install a totalitarian or autocratic
regime, ..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streitbare_Demokratie
--
.''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06
: :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/
`. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe
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Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 14:02:02 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > here is a wrap-up (of the wrap-up (of the...)) that Francesca has just > shared with me based on the last feedback on list. > > > The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone. > > It doesn't matter how you identify yourself or how others perceive you: > we welcome you. We welcome contributions from everyone as long as they > interact constructively with our community. > > While much of the work for our project is technical in nature, we value > and encourage contributions from those with expertise in other areas, > and welcome them into our community. > Looks good to me. Thanks to Francesca and all others who've helped to further improve the text! > It seems to me that there is consensus in going ahead with such a > statement, modulo some minor disagreements on the form that can still be > fixed once published following the usual (bug reporting) procedure. I > hereby declare that, as DPL, I'm happy with it and I'm ready to ask the > WWW and Press teams to publish and advertise it as a project-wide > statement. Fine with me. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Leonard Cohen: First We Take Manhattan signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Planned changes to Debian Maintainer uploads
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:52:30 +0100, Jon Dowland wrote: > > The ftp team wants to change how allowing Debian Maintainers to upload > > packages works. The current approach with the DM-Upload-Allowed field > > has a few issues we would like to address: > Have any of these issues been a problem practically, yet? Or are they > just potential problems for the future? [Ansgar] | - It applies to all DMs listed as Maintainer/Uploaders. It is not | possible to grant upload permission to only a specific DM. Not sure if this actually counts as a problem but it means that the whole DM concept is -- at least in the eyes of the Debian Perl Group [0] -- not suited for packaging teams. Cheers, gregor [0] or its members as of late 2007/early 2008 when we discussed it -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: U2: Helter Skelter signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Planned changes to Debian Maintainer uploads
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:29:46 -0400, Joey Hess wrote: > Ansgar Burchardt wrote: > > - It applies to all DMs listed as Maintainer/Uploaders. It is not > >possible to grant upload permission to only a specific DM. > Isn't that the point of listing a DM in the field? Why would you want to > list someone as a Maintainer and not allow them to upload a package? In a packaging team, Uploaders: can contain several people working on a package; with DMUA:yes all of them who are DMs can upload it even if some became DMs for totally unrelated packages originally. More elaborate: http://lists.debian.org/debian-perl/2007/11/msg00075.html As you said in http://lists.debian.org/debian-perl/2007/11/msg00079.html | It's unfortunate that the Uploaders field is overloaded to mean so | many different things than "can upload this package". That's the root | of the confusingness. :) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- A woman should have compassion. -- Kirk, "Catspaw", stardate 3018.2 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120612065328.gc24...@colleen.colgarra.priv.at
Re: OpenPGP keysigning: alternate encodings for fingerprint exchange
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 10:07:43 +, Tanguy Ortolo wrote: > Latin is a common root to many current languages, and which I think has > a completely deterministic pronunciation. Not really, there are variations both historically/geographically and nowadays. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_spelling_and_pronunciation is quite interesting and mentions e.g. "Since around the beginning of the Renaissance period onwards, with the language being used as an international language among intellectuals, pronunciation of Latin in Europe came to be dominated by the phonology of local languages, resulting in a variety of different pronunciation systems." or "Because of the central position of Rome within the Catholic Church, an Italian pronunciation of Latin became commonly accepted," So for Latin we'd have to agree on one specific pronounciation again. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Surveying new package maintainers about their experience of contributing to Debian
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:08:55 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > I feel that, as long-time contributors, we often lack a good view of how > hard new people find it to get involved in Debian. In order to better > identify blockers or difficulties that prospective contributors face > when trying to contribute to Debian, I would like to survey new package > maintainers, Nice idea, thanks! > I started drafting the mail below, and would welcome reviews, comments, > or additional ideas of questions. I plan to send the survey on 2013-07-19 > 12:00 (UTC). I might be interesting to learn _how_ they started to contribute / got their first package uploaded. Draft: Qn: How did you learn to create your first package (e.g. by reading Lucas' packaging guide, by starting at a teams wiki page, ...) and how did you get it uploaded (e.g. by joinig a team, by mailing debian-mentors, ...)? What was helpful during these steps, and what did you miss? Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Janis Joplin: Me And Bobby Mc Gee signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Surveying new package maintainers about their experience of contributing to Debian
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 09:29:11 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > > I might be interesting to learn _how_ they started to contribute / > > got their first package uploaded. > Good idea. New version, also trying to provide more closed answers to ease the > analysis, and two questions about future plans (DM, DD): Thanks for the nice implementation of my rough ideas, looks good to me. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Funny Van Dannen: Plastikball signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Choqok 1.4 on Debian Wheezy repos?
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 07:43:32 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 5:13 AM, Eliseu Cendron Carvalho wrote: > > So, is there any chance to make Choqok 1.4 available on Debian > > Wheezy repos? > Please file a release-critical bug (severity serious) about this issue. I guess that's #712188. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- BOFH excuse #75: There isn't any problem -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131121071358.gq32...@colleen.colgarra.priv.at
Re: Code of Conduct: picking up
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 06:52:10 +0900, Norbert Preining wrote: > You exchange one undefined term against another, but that doesn't > change the underlying problem, which is, *what* is socially > disruptive? [..] > The whole point is that all these pseudo definitions of normality > are just fake, fake, fake. We are cheating ourselves if we believe > that even the most simple facts are globally socially acceptable. I agree on this statement, the question is just which conclusions we draw: Cultural norms are different everywhere for everybody, so - let's just behave like we're sitting in the pub with our buddies, and if someone takes offense, bad luck for them; or - let's try to be sensitive to these differences and personal sensitivities and therefore careful in how we interact, and willing to accept a complaint and continue to improve. IMO, the CoC's spirit leans towards the second option, and I very much prefer it this way. > Again, a bad joke for you might not be a bad joke for me and the > other way round. > There is no "objective" in deciding good behaviour. And that means > that bad joke is also not definable. You agreed with the fact that > good behaviour cannot be defined. Agreed, in the strict sense. > So how then do you define a bad joke? When X people say Y times that $kind-of-jokes are offensive etc. to them and ask to stop making them in public. In my understanding, the idea of the CoC is not to define beforehand "You MUST NOT say $word or you'll be kicked hard" but to give the message, "Hey, think a bit before, and if you get it wrong, well, learn from it.", and points only as a last resort to possible sanctions (that exist anyway nowadays as well) for those who decide to ignore requests from their peers. > Undefined: "persistent" > Undefined: "bad behaviour" Correct. I guess the "problem" is that this is not about science but about a social system. (And law also doesn't work like physics.) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Beatles: Why Don't We Do It In The Road signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: uol.com.br and petsupermarket
On Wed, Mar 15, 2006 at 03:33:28PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: > > Out of curiosity, how did the probe emails some time ago manage to > > *not* locate the subscriber address that generates the bounces? None > > of them bounced? > Looks like the CR system is quite selective in whom it bothers. I am a > regular poster on the Debian mailing lists, and I never receive these > CR messages. Maybe it's braindead enough to stumble over the plus (+) in your e-mail address (like most spammers' software). gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : infos zur usenet-hierarchie at.*: http://www.usenet.at/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-Warp 7 -- It's a law we can live with. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How could we give away Debian CDs/DVDs for free?
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:11:49 +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Steve McIntyre ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061016 11:09]: > > If people have to pay something for them (even > > something really cheap), then they're more likely to take an interest. > Depending on the event, we ask for money (unless someone is really Out of curiosity: How much would/do the both of you charge for a CD? gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-You're dead, Jim. -- McCoy, "Amok Time", stardate 3372.7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Etch Stable.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 02:10:32 +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: Thanks for presenting your thoughts. I'm going to make a few remarks on a meta level: > - Debian shouldn't do funding of Debian work for various reasons, > that add up to it not having the support of the developer body [..] > No doubt some of these > conclusions were obvious to some people before this was ever raised; > unfortunately not everyone's that well informed. When I read the first mail about Dunc-Tank I thought: "Hu? This will lead to a disaster. Don't they know it or are they deliberately ignoring it?" Why? Because not only my personal experience in NPOs but also the scientific literature on this subject show that a mix of paid staff and volunteers in an organization/project leads to disagreement/conflicts; and that introducing organzational changes needs a specific way of doing so (getting consent, involving affected parties, ...). If I understand your mail correctly you (and the Dunc-Tank board) didn't ignore these well-known facts on purpose but you just didn't know them (which is a little embarrassing from my POV but at least it doesn't look malicious -- and I have no reason not to believe you). > I presume the real question is whether anyone gets funded to do Debian > stuff in the future. IMO the "real question" is how we as the Debian community cope with the social system called "Debian", especially with the issue of organziational change. -- And from my POV it would be helpful if either those "techies" who have influential positions in Debian learned some basics about social systems or if they at least consulted someone with a little more clue about social phenomena before taking decisions/starting new initiatives. gre "Biella for DPL" gor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Bob Dylan: One of us must know (Sooner or Later) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian Etch Stable.
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 11:29:21 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: > > Why? Because not only my personal experience in NPOs but also the > > scientific literature on this subject show that a mix of paid staff > > and volunteers in an organization/project leads to > > disagreement/conflicts; > This is not a certain cause-effect relationship. Agreed, I was over-simplifying for the sake of getting to my point that findings from social sciences might be helpful for Debian in general. [Red Cross example] > and the staff takes care of the boring routine > things, leaving the volunteers to do what they want, when they want. Agreed; taking into consideration which tasks are appropriate for being paid in a mixed staff/volunteers environment seems important to me, too. -- This is actually a good example of the type of knowledge I meant. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Janis Joplin: Maybe signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Social Committee proposal text (diff)
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 03:32:52 +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: > + If there are fewer than S2 candidates > + at the end of the nomination period, then the nomination period is > + extended for two further weeks, repeatedly if necessary. [..] > + If "None Of The Above" wins the election, or if fewer than S2 > + candidates win over "None of the Above", the election process is > + repeated. > + > + At least one third of all elected candidates should have been > + members of the project for at least Y/2 years, where Y is the age > + of the Project in years. If fewer than one third of candidates meet > + this requirement, the election process is repeated. How often should the nomination period and the election process be repeated? I'd suggest to include some maximum otherwise they could go on ad infinitum. And count me in to the group of people asking for examples - I'm following this proposal with interest but still I don't really know what those social issues are this committee should decide about. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Simon and Garfunkel signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Social Committee proposal text (diff)
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:42:50 +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: > > > + If there are fewer than S2 candidates > > > + at the end of the nomination period, then the nomination period is > > > + extended for two further weeks, repeatedly if necessary. > > > + If "None Of The Above" wins the election, or if fewer than S2 > > > + candidates win over "None of the Above", the election process is > > > + repeated. > > How often should the nomination period and the election process be > > repeated? I'd suggest to include some maximum otherwise they could go > > on ad infinitum. > You can see similar rules in other parts of the constitution, see 5.2.4, > 5.2.6. I think there's a huge difference between "no candidates" (5.2.4) and "fewer than S2 candidates" in your proposal, and between "NOTA wins" (5.2.6) vs. "fewer than S2 candidates over NOTA". In other words: The threshold is much higer (16 vs. 1 AIUI) and it's much easier that it won't be reached. And the regulations in the Constitution seem logically necessary: If there is not a single candidate or a single winner there has to be some "else case" whereas your S2 boundary is arbritary (which is not bad in itself but it could be any other value too). > Do you think it's likely for it to go on for more than one repetition? I've no real idea but it might lead to a dead end. And having infinite nominations/elections because there are e.g. "only" 10 and not 16 persons seems to defeat the whole idea. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Bob Dylan: Absolutely sweet Marie signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Social Committee proposal text (diff)
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:46:10 +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: > > > Do you think it's likely for it to go on for more than one repetition? > > I've no real idea but it might lead to a dead end. And having > > infinite nominations/elections because there are e.g. "only" 10 and > > not 16 persons seems to defeat the whole idea. > (Just a note - my S2 boundary isn't really arbitrary, it's basically a > function of the quorum.) (Point taken but it's still a deliberate decision to say count($members_of_soc_ctte)=round(Q).) > I have pondered this previously, but I decided to have a try like that > still. If we allow the bar to be dropped arbitrarily down from the > quorum-based quota, then how do we decide how many are sufficient and > how many are not? I don't have an answer ready but IMO S2 (or Q) is not more magical then 5 or 13 or 42. I guess at the end the size of the committee should: * depend on its goals and tasks * allow the group to work as a _group_ (The other question is of course what happens if there are not enough candidates/winners. Maybe an (equally arbitrary) minimum size for a second round could be defined?) I hope that these technicalities can be better worked out if the issued for the ctte are a little clearer. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-BOFH excuse #138: BNC (brain not connected) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Social Committee proposal text (diff)
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:52:12 +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: > > > (Just a note - my S2 boundary isn't really arbitrary, it's basically a > > > function of the quorum.) > > (Point taken but it's still a deliberate decision to say > > count($members_of_soc_ctte)=round(Q).) > (I was just correcting the adjective used - "arbitrary" isn't the same as > "deliberate" :) (Debian is a great place for learning for me ;-)) > > I guess at the end the size of the committee should: > > * depend on its goals and tasks > > * allow the group to work as a _group_ > > > > (The other question is of course what happens if there are not enough > > candidates/winners. Maybe an (equally arbitrary) minimum size for a > > second round could be defined?) > I've discussed in the previous thread why I thought 1000->16 or 2000->23 > were decent; but that was more in light of an upper limit, rather than a > lower limit. Only when I started writing the exact rule into the > constitution text did I realize that there lower limit needs to be > thought about :) As long as we discover this issue in time ... :-) > If there is a serious doubt whether we would be able to elect that many > people in less than two rounds of elections (a second round would be > bearable; a third would be a real bother) Agreed. > then I would have to be leaning > towards either: > * Allowing a variable number of members, to a point. I was originally > thinking that a fixed size needs to be set in order to have a clear > understanding of what the membership in the ctte means; also adding > variability adds more nuance into the constitution definition so it's > harder to write. > * Or cutting the fixed size further down, but that sounds like a workaround. I too think the first possibility is better; and I think adding a minimum size shouldn't make the definition too complicated. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Die Tontauben: jonny signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Developers vs Uploaders
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:47:24 -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > I don't have numbers to prove anything here, but I'm sure any pkg-perl > [1] member will join me recommending Niko Tyni [2]. As a (non-DD) member of the Debian Perl Group I whole-heartedly second this proposal; Niko is doing a great job in our team. gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-BOFH excuse #165: Backbone Scoliosis signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Deficiencies in Debian (was: A question to the Debian community ...)
[cc and reply-to/m-f-t [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 10 May 2007 12:32:26 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > There are other things > that *are* signs of fundamental deficiencies in the project, Would you mind to elaborate on this point, I'm really interested in your opinion. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Miles Davis: Don't Stop Me Now signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Deficiencies in Debian
On Thu, 10 May 2007 13:42:37 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > >> There are other things > >> that *are* signs of fundamental deficiencies in the project, > > Would you mind to elaborate on this point, I'm really interested in > > your opinion. > The biggest problem with most open source / free software projects that > I've been involved in is the bottleneck around evaluating and accepting > infrastructural improvements. Thanks alot for your detailed and at the same time succinct reply. Your analysis and conclusions look very logical to me; just a few questions/thoughts: > There isn't any silver bullet solution. If there was, we probably would > have taken it already. Some projects do better with it than others. > Linux does a relatively good job here. I'm not following the Linux community closely; do you think there are points Debian could adopt or learn from? > I think Debian does very well here in some areas and not as well in > others, but Debian suffers from those structural flaws around finding a > way to train the next group, relieve load and stress on core contributors, > and still ensure that changes to the infrastructure are audited with the > detail and care that is indicated. There have been improvements by fits > and starts in the past few months, and I don't think any of this is news > to anyone. Maybe working out what are the achievements and the deficiences in detail could provide a way for improvement. > In a workplace environment, this sort of thing is often addressed by > putting mentoring and staff development on the performance goals of senior > staff and freeing up time that they're supposed to dedicate to training > and documentation. Debian doesn't have that luxury, Hm, maybe that sounds naïve, but what about thinking about a way to adopt strategies of mentoring, development, fine graining roles (job descriptions, mutual agreements, appraisal&evaluation, ...) , etc. to F/LOSS in general and Debian in particular? Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Sinéad O'Connor: Emma's Song signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Deficiencies in Debian
On Thu, 10 May 2007 23:14:32 +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > Debian doesn't have that luxury, and I don't know > > what, if anything, we can effectively do at a project organization level > > to accomplish a similar goal. > What about doing something like that ? > http://wiki.debian.org/Teams Looks like a good approach, thanks! Two quick thoughts: * I'd move the "Task description" to the top - IMO "what's it all about/what's the objective?" has the top-most priority. * IMO the next step would be to define and publish similar pages not only for special teams but for all roles (be they teams or individuals) in Debian. > I've documented the Alioth team and I'll probably continue doing something > similar for some other teams that I know quite well. I hope you do that for the Debian Perl Group so that I don't have to learn the wiki stuff ;-) > I started it this week and I'd like to have some feedback on the structure > of the template page (see http://wiki.debian.org/TeamTemplate). Are the > important information missing? Are some information useless? I'm not sure if the "Usual roles" apply often to teams. Bonne soirée, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Die Tontauben: flying signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Deficiencies in Debian
On Fri, 11 May 2007 08:33:01 +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > > I've documented the Alioth team and I'll probably continue doing something > > > similar for some other teams that I know quite well. > > I hope you do that for the Debian Perl Group so that I don't have to > > learn the wiki stuff ;-) > Actually, I probably won't. Packaging teams are not my priority in this > exercise. The real problems that we have are more in the teams that handle > our infrastructure. Fair enough; I've made my first attempts in wiki editing: http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianPerlGroup Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Reinhard Mey: Was in der Zeitung steht signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Deficiencies in Debian
On Fri, 18 May 2007 22:09:56 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: [training the "next generation"] > > I'm not following the Linux community closely; do you think there are > > points Debian could adopt or learn from? I try to summarize (hopefully correctly) your points: > With Linux, I think it helps a lot that many of the people involved in > kernel development are paid to do it and mentor others as part of their > job. I do similar things for Debian, training other people in my group on > how to build Debian packages and participate in the infrastructure, and > hopefully over time that will bear fruit for Debian as well. - experienced people as mentors for newcomers > Linux also has a good history of organized projects to help people get > started, such as kernel janitors, and puts a lot of effort into > collaboration infrastructure. - teamwork and collaboration, facilitated by the necessary infrastructure > And one of the best things about the Linux > model is that Linus regularly talks about how he wants things done and > what leads him to take stuff or not take stuff in public on the lists, > which leads others to do the same. And those are interactive discussions, > not just writeups. I think people learn a lot from those discussions. - open discussions about future developments > On Debian, the impression that I've gotten is that a lot of the real > mentoring and discussion actually happens on IRC rather than on the > lists. I don't know how effective that is. I don't know either; probably there's a lot to "grab" by just following some channels but OTOH the S/N ration is sometimes not really helpful and IRC doesn't seem to be a dedicated mentoring approach at the moment. Regarding your other points I think * there is a trend towards more teamwork and there is infrastructure available for it; * mentoring is happening by chance (in the teams, by some long-time sponsors, maybe by some AMs) but not in a planned way; * maybe some discussions are initially not led in public (but I'm not sure about that one). > > Hm, maybe that sounds naïve, but what about thinking about a way to > > adopt strategies of mentoring, development, fine graining roles (job > > descriptions, mutual agreements, appraisal&evaluation, ...) , etc. to > > F/LOSS in general and Debian in particular? > The main obstacle that I see is that that stuff takes a lot of time. I > spend probably 5% of my work time on the coordination, record-keeping, and > reporting parts of that sort of activity, which in a full-time job is > quite reasonable. But it's not really a percentage; it's a quantity of > time that those activities take. And I couldn't take a similar two hour > per week cut out of my Debian volunteer work without a much greater impact > on how much stuff I could get done. Sure, mentoring/training/staff development takes time but as you point out at the beginning it probably "bear[s] fruit for Debian". Maybe Debian would be better off in the long run if some of the experienced DDs decided to drop one package or resign from one infrastructure task and to use the saved time for taking an "apprentice". I don't know if there have been any organized mentoring/training programmes in Debian in the past; the only one I know at the moment is organized by the Debian Women project [0] but TTBOMK it's not very active. -- IMO it's a good idea anyway! Cheers, gregor [0] http://women.debian.org/mentoring/ -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Rolling Stones: She's A Rainbow (45 version)/She's a Rainbow - 2 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Planets for debian users and debian administrators.
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 18:45:12 +0200, Shams Fantar wrote: > - I don't understand why it doesn't exist a official planet for debian > users and a official planet for debian administrators. Do you have > responses ? Take a look at http://wiki.debian-community.org/planets/ Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ | gpg key ID: 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : debian: the universal operating system - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' member of https://www.vibe.at/ | how to reply: http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: Cássia Eller signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Question to donation from OnlineStore to Debian/SPI
On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:45:36 +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> I am ongoing to start a new OnlineStore selling Debian DVDs and CDs
> beside other things. Sinde I want to donate a part of the sales price
> to the Debian Project I am running into some troubles.
> I need and organisation where peopled can get fiscal benefits in Germany
> and maybe France...
For Germany there's FFIS:
http://www.debian.org/donations.de.html
http://www.ffis.de/Verein/spi-en.html
http://www.ffis.de/Verein/spi-de.html
http://www.ffis.de/Verein/donations.html
Cheers,
gregor
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Re: Developer Status
On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:12:01 -0200, Martín Ferrari wrote:
> > I have a problem with non-technical persons voting on technical
> > issues, or issues having technical implications for the developer
> > body. I have even more of a problem with non-technical persons leading
> > a technical project.
[..]
> And what part of being a DPL can't be done by somebody who knows the
> project, does hard work, and is respected but hates packaging stuff? I
> can think of a couple of examples that could even win that election...
Ack.
The job of a DPL is not to write cool code or maintain fancy packages
but to -- well, lead the project.
And IMO that requires not so much technical skills but skills and
experience in communication, organization, dispute handling, change
management, and other social skills.
And as we can see every other day there's room for improvement in this
areas of "soft skills" in Debian in general ...
> > I am against this part of your proposal. Voting rights should be
> > coupled with proper understanding of the Project at large, including
> > the technical stuff, which is, after all, the base of this Project.
> Understanding the project doesn't mean understanding dpkg, there are
> things much more important, because, remember... above all we are a
> group of people, [..]
Agreed, and I like that aspect in the new concept: that it puts the
most valuable resource of an all-volunteer project more into the
focus: the volunteers.
Acknowledging different ways and intensities of contributions and
having a clearer concept of "paths" through the project and
requirements for different stages can IMO raise the motivation of
both current and future contributors -- and thereby help Debian to
flourish as a whole.
Cheers,
gregor
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Re: Developer Status
On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:14:59 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:33:28PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> > Developer Status
> >
> Hi all, thanks for this proposal.
I'd also like to thank Ganneff (and whoever contributed to the
concept) for their effort, and I like the general direction and many
of the ideas.
(And thanks Zack for summing up some of my thoughts in your mails :))
> It is about something that we have discussed several times in the
> past, and was already agreed as a point of Debian needing improvement:
> how to upon contribution to non-hackers, and how to recognize those
> contributions.
Ack.
That's one of the good points in the proposal; I also like that it
gives a clearer picture of what is required to do specific tasks.
> Still DMs are commonly "used" (wow, never used that many double quotes
> in 2 paragraphs ...) as part of special purpose maintenance team, my
> example is as usual the pkg-ocaml-maint team. In these cases, members
> of the team are better suited to review the packages than the NMC, at
> least a priori.
DMs are used in some teams and not in some others because of problems
already pointed out in this thread; but I wanted to add another
thought regarding teams:
One of the results of the BOFs about team maintenance during
DebConf8 was that getting involved in a team is a good way for new
contributors to get involved into Debian: they learn a lot from the
interaction with more experienced maintainers, they get mentoring and
at the same time can't break stuff easily.
What I was thinking about is the question if membership in teams
could be integrated in the process for becoming a new $abbreviation.
I have no concrete idea how this could be done; obviously becoming a
member in a packaging team can't be a prerequisite; but maybe it can
give "bonus points" or -- as you suggested -- team members can be
involved in the evaluation of the work.
> > Those two "classes" are the initial set in which every NM will end
> > up. After six months as DC or DM one might chose to become a
> > Debian Member or Debian Developer. This
> FWIW, 6 months seems a reasonable time frame to me.
Ack.
And I think having a clear time frame (be it 3, 6, or 12 months or
whatever) is in itself helpful. Nowadays if someone enters the NM
process the only thing they know is "it will probably take a long
time ..."
Cheers,
gregor
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Re: Developer Status
On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:16:01 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> > > Debian Contributor
> > > --
> > > Debian Maintainer
> > > -
> > > Debian Member
> > > -
> > > Debian Developer
> > >
> > Now, regarding your proposal itself, I agree with others that it
> > sounds too bureaucratic, even for Debian.
> Is it?
I agree, I fail to see what's bureaucratic about the proposal. After
all it's a simple 2x2 matrix with requirements for the 4 "boxes".
> I mean, the names looks clear to me.
I'm not really happy with the terms from Ganneffs proposal and like
Bas' ideas better; IMO they are more logical and acknowledge that
both packaging and other activities constitute "membership"; although
we should probably keep the "DD" somewhere to avoid total confusion.
In general I think iff procedures are changed we should take the
opportunity to also "clean up" the terms which are kind of a mess at
the moment IMO.
What I'm missing is a positive name for the non-packinging area; Bas'
"developing" vs. "non-developing" gives just a negative description
("people that don't maintain/upload packages"), a positive term
describing what they actually do would recognize their work better
IMO. I didn't have any idea so far, which word would cover all these
activities.
And maybe we could make the search for terms easier if we found an
apposition for the first stage that can be prepended or appended to
the term in the second stage; something like "junior" or "candidate"
(no, I don't like both of these, just to give an idea).
Ok, here's a rather incomplete ASCII art, maybe it inspires someone
else:
/Area | Packaging | "Other"
Stage / | |
D Member | D Developer | D XY
D Contributor | Junior DD | Junior D XY
> Are you maybe suggesting that alioth account creation should be bound
> to being a debian contributor? I see more harm than good in something
> like that ...
Ack, alioth accounts are great for new people when they join teams,
and that's most often before they think about becoming a $whatever.
Cheers,
gregor
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Re: Developer Status
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:24:06 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> [ Still, I found quite telling that I can't remember your acronyms
> without looking again at your mail, while I still remember the
> names proposed in Joerg's mail.
For me it's exactly the other way round, but I guess referring to our
memories doesn't prove more than that preferences for naming schemes
are a bit subjective :)
Cheers,
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Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 23:47:41 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> So, are there going to be guide;lines for this voting on emails?
> On /., when one moderates, there are clear labels: troll, off-topic,
> flamebait, etc.
I think labels or tags would indeed be useful to have a structured
way of showing the cause for the complaint/praise.
And a bts-like implementation (forward the mail, add "tag $mid
off-topic" as a pseudo-header) should work well people used to working
with email a lot.
Cheers,
gregor
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Re: Discussion: Possible GR: Enhance requirements for General Resolutions
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:54:41 +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> I have felt for some time that the low requirement for seconds on General
> Resolutions is something that should be fixed. We are over 1000
> Developers, if you can't find more than 5 people supporting your idea,
> its most probably not worth it taking time of everyone. Various IRC
> discussions told me that others feel the same.
I agree that raising the barriers would be a good idea.
Cheers,
gregor
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Re: How to be authorized distributor
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:06:11 -0300, Vonlist wrote:
> I written to them so that I want to know that I need to be an authorized
> distributor of Debian.
Please take a look at
http://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/info (english) or
http://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/info.es.html (español).
Saludos,
gregor
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Re: Twittering on planet.d.o?
On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:56:49 +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> >> Luk: what do you think yourself?
> > I think having a very limited amount of tweets from people that do not
> > write long blog posts is ok, though if it's not appreciated I'll remove
> > my feed.
> Short blog posts are ok, but one-sentence "status" things like identi.ca
> has, quite often with the same title and content are *IMO* pretty
> annoying.
I agree.
Although I like to read those tweets from fellow Debian guys, I think
that Planet is the wrong place for them.
> If someone thinks such a thing would be good to have on (or below)
> planet.d.o, an aggregrator for such extra feeds could be made. But I'm
> not sure that buys us anything, as those people can use those Debian
> groups on those other platforms?
I think it would be nice to have because
- the !debian group on identi.ca is IMO pretty useless since
everybody who turns on their computer and knows how to spell
d-e-b-i-a-n seems to !need !to !tell !the !world !about !it
(for reference: http://identi.ca/group/debian)
- we could make the new feed especially for _contributors_, like
Planet
pluto sounds like a nice name :)
Cheers,
gregor
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Re: DAM and NEW queues processing
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:17:15 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:47:16PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote: [reviews of debian/copyright] > > You know, there is one set of packages that *usually* passes NEW > > pretty fast? Thats because they do something similar to that. They > > (usually, even they have exceptions, but pretty rare) have damn good > > copyright files. (For some reason those packages end in -perl. Must > > be some policy thing i suspect). > What I don't get from your text is: are you aware of the extra reviews > on a per-package basis, or you just noticed that tose packages are > usually OK and then discovered that the reasons are extra reviews? We don't have some formal procedure for reviewing debian/copyright; I guess it's just some kind of "group culture" that we want to produce sound packages which includes correct copyright/licensing information. And REJECTs caused by sloppy work are both embarrassing and time-consuming for all involved parties :) In practice it helps in my opinion * to have some "nit-pickers" in the group who spread this culture; * to have simple packages (with a 3-line debian/rules we can take some more time for getting debian/copyright right :)); * that there are some recurrent pitfalls that appear in several packages again; * for reviews, at least for me, that we mostly use the new copyright format (the structure makes it easier for me to spot problems than some free-form prose); * that (at least parts of) the group works together on IRC where it's easy to just ask "hey, package foo has a weird copyright, could someone else please take a look and give their opinion?" and that we actually do this; * that our upstream authors are usually very responsive when we ask them for clarifications or adding missing pieces, and that also lowers the bar for actually asking. I'm not sure there's some conclusion that I can offer from my experience in the pkg-perl group to others; if any, it might be that a group culture that encourages close cooperation and an endeavour for diligence pays off. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG Key IDs: 0x00F3CFE4, 0x8649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT, SPI Inc., fellow of FSFE | http://got.to/quote/ `-NP: R.E.M.: Star Me Kitten signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: squeeze release cycle?
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:11:08 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:35:45AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/10/msg2.html > > But indeed it's only a proposal at this point. The release team needs > > to set a date in stone now. > Does it? Re-reading the mail above I surely agree that it is a freeze > "proposal", but the way I personally assimilated it is something like > "freeze is in March", with the always standing obvious corollary of "but > of course it would be pointless to freeze with 1000 RC bugs". FWIW: I also read the announcement as "the current plan is to freeze in March" and therefor assumed we will freeze in March unless some major obstacles appear. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG Key IDs: 0x00F3CFE4, 0x8649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, & developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT, SPI Inc., fellow of FSFE | http://got.to/quote/ `-"Does it worry you that you don't talk any kind of sense? " -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: archive
On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 16:24:56 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > On Wed, Jan 04, 2023 at 02:45:51PM +0200, to...@ukr.net wrote: > > Hi! I'm interested in a question about the archive/old versions. The site > > https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive.en.html states that over time you > > stop keeping binary packages for older versions. Please tell me, over time, > > you remove binary packages from archive? Please give me the answers! > So - we don't always keep all the binaries for all the point releases, for > example. Adding to this infomation regarding the Debian archive/mirrors: Old versions of packages are available at https://snapshot.debian.org/ (Just not right now as it is in "500 Internal Server Error" mood.) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe `- signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: Insanely frustrating finding older distributions
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 03:45:42 -0600, Daemon Bernstein wrote: > I had to keep searching on a search engine to find the archive. Debian's > website search could not find it. I was curious and tried … If I go to https://www.debian.org/ and type "archive" in the search box at the top right, the first search result is "Debian -- Distribution Archives" which sounds promising, when I click on it I land at https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive.en.html which seems to be what you are looking for. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe `- BOFH excuse #226: A star wars satellite accidently blew up the WAN.
Re: Debian Security Packages Mismatch Repository vs Advisory portal
On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 11:20:57 +0100, Marc Haber wrote: > That being said, your answer might be on > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases/PointReleases > or on the result page of your favorite search engine when you ask it for > Debian Point Releases. Cf. also the announcement of the last point release: https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2024/msg8.html (Subscribing to the debian-announce mailing list is highly recommended.) Cheers, gregor -- .''`. https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D 85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06 `. `' Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe `- BOFH excuse #362: Plasma conduit breach
