Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[Petar Horvatic via CnC-List]

Anyone has an idea why this happened twice in a row.  

 

Two trips to Block island this year and at about the same spot, right where 
seas get a little lumpy, and on about half full tank, diesel sucks in air and 
dies.  First time was pounding into 20-kts (not a good way to travel), second 
time with no wind but large confused seas.  

The first time I sailed and dropped a hook before bleeding the injectors.   
Second time I added 5 gal jerry can and after bleeding injectors in 6 foot 
swell got her started without a problem.   Ran fine after that in same 
conditions. 

 

I guess I should check to make sure fuel gauge is calibrated, although I’ve 
been using it the past 3-4 years.  

 

 

Petar Horvatic

Sundowner

76 C&C 38MkII

Newport, RI

 

 

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Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Petar — it might be that the fuel pickup tube is corroded, and either doesn’t 
drop as far down into the fuel as it should/used to, or you have some pits in 
it above the half-tank level that allow air it.  Sounds like time to pull and 
check it.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Anyone has an idea why this happened twice in a row.  
>  
> Two trips to Block island this year and at about the same spot, right where 
> seas get a little lumpy, and on about half full tank, diesel sucks in air and 
> dies.  First time was pounding into 20-kts (not a good way to travel), second 
> time with no wind but large confused seas.  
> The first time I sailed and dropped a hook before bleeding the injectors.   
> Second time I added 5 gal jerry can and after bleeding injectors in 6 foot 
> swell got her started without a problem.   Ran fine after that in same 
> conditions. 
>  
> I guess I should check to make sure fuel gauge is calibrated, although I’ve 
> been using it the past 3-4 years.  
>  
>  
> Petar Horvatic
> Sundowner
> 76 C&C 38MkII
> Newport, RI

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Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[phorvati . via CnC-List]

Great, just as I thought work is done, and its time to enjoy summer
sailing
On Jul 6, 2015 9:12 AM, "Frederick G Street via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Petar — it might be that the fuel pickup tube is corroded, and either
> doesn’t drop as far down into the fuel as it should/used to, or you have
> some pits in it above the half-tank level that allow air it.  Sounds like
> time to pull and check it.
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
> On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone has an idea why this happened twice in a row.
>
> Two trips to Block island this year and at about the same spot, right
> where seas get a little lumpy, and on about half full tank, diesel sucks in
> air and dies.  First time was pounding into 20-kts (not a good way to
> travel), second time with no wind but large confused seas.
> The first time I sailed and dropped a hook before bleeding the injectors.
>  Second time I added 5 gal jerry can and after bleeding injectors in 6 foot
> swell got her started without a problem.   Ran fine after that in same
> conditions.
>
> I guess I should check to make sure fuel gauge is calibrated, although
> I’ve been using it the past 3-4 years.
>
>
> Petar Horvatic
> Sundowner
> 76 C&C 38MkII
> Newport, RI
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

Or the pickup becomes blocked, and air gets sucked in elsewhere in the fuel 
system.

Paul Fountain

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2015 9:12 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frederick G Street
Subject: Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

Petar — it might be that the fuel pickup tube is corroded, and either doesn’t 
drop as far down into the fuel as it should/used to, or you have some pits in 
it above the half-tank level that allow air it.  Sounds like time to pull and 
check it.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Anyone has an idea why this happened twice in a row.

Two trips to Block island this year and at about the same spot, right where 
seas get a little lumpy, and on about half full tank, diesel sucks in air and 
dies.  First time was pounding into 20-kts (not a good way to travel), second 
time with no wind but large confused seas.
The first time I sailed and dropped a hook before bleeding the injectors.   
Second time I added 5 gal jerry can and after bleeding injectors in 6 foot 
swell got her started without a problem.   Ran fine after that in same 
conditions.

I guess I should check to make sure fuel gauge is calibrated, although I’ve 
been using it the past 3-4 years.


Petar Horvatic
Sundowner
76 C&C 38MkII
Newport, RI

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Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[jackbrennan via CnC-List]

One possibility is the vent line. Mine ran from a transom mounted vent and had 
a long, flattish run before reaching the tank.

It turns out some water would get in the line now and then. In rougher seas, 
the water would occasionally settle in a flat spot and block the line 
completely, preventing the fuel pump from pulling from the tank.

I moved the vent much closer to the tank, with a vertical orientation, which 
solved the problem.

I had a similar situation with the vent for the holding tank. When it clogged, 
pumping the head would create leaks in the system. No fun at all.

Jack Brennan
Former C&C 25
Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
Tierra Verde, Fl.




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO

 Original message 
From: Petar Horvatic via CnC-List  
Date:07/06/2015  9:09 AM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Petar Horvatic  
Subject: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank 

Anyone has an idea why this happened twice in a row. 
 
Two trips to Block island this year and at about the same spot, right where 
seas get a little lumpy, and on about half full tank, diesel sucks in air and 
dies.  First time was pounding into 20-kts (not a good way to travel), second 
time with no wind but large confused seas. 
The first time I sailed and dropped a hook before bleeding the injectors.   
Second time I added 5 gal jerry can and after bleeding injectors in 6 foot 
swell got her started without a problem.   Ran fine after that in same 
conditions.
 
I guess I should check to make sure fuel gauge is calibrated, although I’ve 
been using it the past 3-4 years. 
 
 
Petar Horvatic
Sundowner
76 C&C 38MkII
Newport, RI
 
 ___

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Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Petar — in addition to B.O.A.T. being an acronym for “Break Out Another 
Thousand,” I’ve also found from personal experience that it stands for “Broken 
Or About To”…   :^)

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:13 AM, phorvati . via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Great, just as I thought work is done, and its time to enjoy summer 
> sailing
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Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[Petar Horvatic via CnC-List]

So if the pickup was blocked, why on both occasions after bleeding(once in calm 
water and second time in rough water but after adding 5 more gallons to the 
tank) it ran without a problem for hours, 2nd time in the same rough seas.  

 

The tank was out (dried out and inspected) over the winter in 2011/2012.   So 
was the pickup and sender at which time I don’t remember seeing any signs of 
corrosion etc.  It might be good to mention that prior to 2012, I had atomic 4 
(gasoline) engine.  I put westrerbeake in the spring of 2012 after a full 
rebuild.  I kept the tank.  Hoses were all new.   My primary is the Racor 230R 
Diesel Spin-On Series filter/water separator.  I change that and secondary 
filter every commissioning.  No signs of water whatsoever.  Also fuel that 
comes out while bleeding is clean.  

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Paul 
Fountain via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 9:18 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Paul Fountain
Subject: Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

 

Or the pickup becomes blocked, and air gets sucked in elsewhere in the fuel 
system.  

 

Paul Fountain

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2015 9:12 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frederick G Street
Subject: Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

 

Petar — it might be that the fuel pickup tube is corroded, and either doesn’t 
drop as far down into the fuel as it should/used to, or you have some pits in 
it above the half-tank level that allow air it.  Sounds like time to pull and 
check it.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

 

On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

Anyone has an idea why this happened twice in a row.  

 

Two trips to Block island this year and at about the same spot, right where 
seas get a little lumpy, and on about half full tank, diesel sucks in air and 
dies.  First time was pounding into 20-kts (not a good way to travel), second 
time with no wind but large confused seas.  

The first time I sailed and dropped a hook before bleeding the injectors.   
Second time I added 5 gal jerry can and after bleeding injectors in 6 foot 
swell got her started without a problem.   Ran fine after that in same 
conditions. 

 

I guess I should check to make sure fuel gauge is calibrated, although I’ve 
been using it the past 3-4 years.  

 

 

Petar Horvatic

Sundowner

76 C&C 38MkII

Newport, RI

 

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Re: Stus-List Transatlantic Race - big guys are off

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Rambler seems to be holding its own against Comanche. The gap is only 7
miles, and Yellowbrick lists it in first!

Guess I need to wear the NE Boatworks hat I got in Newport!  (Harry, thank
the boss for including it in the goody bag!)

If you have read the blogs, the race has been pretty brutal with squalls,
broken gear, blown sails etc.  Luckily, no one seems to be in danger.

Joel

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Comanche and Rambler started today with the two multihulls.  Just now they
> were running 17.9 and 17 knots respectively.
>
> The multihull Phaedo was doing 25.2 knots.  Wow!
>
> http://yb.tl/transatlantic2015
>
> Dennis C.
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Peter,

How low did the gauge read?  How much did you think you had before adding
the 5 gallons?  What did it read after? Did you top it off and see of the
numbers added up?
I agree it sounds like a plumbing issue with the vent or pickup.  I hope
your access to the tank is better than mine!

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> So if the pickup was blocked, why on both occasions after bleeding(once in
> calm water and second time in rough water but after adding 5 more gallons
> to the tank) it ran without a problem for hours, 2nd time in the same
> rough seas.
>
>
>
> The tank was out (dried out and inspected) over the winter in 2011/2012.
> So was the pickup and sender at which time I don’t remember seeing any
> signs of corrosion etc.  It might be good to mention that prior to 2012, I
> had atomic 4 (gasoline) engine.  I put westrerbeake in the spring of 2012
> after a full rebuild.  I kept the tank.  Hoses were all new.   My primary
> is the Racor 230R Diesel Spin-On Series filter/water separator.  I change
> that and secondary filter every commissioning.  No signs of water
> whatsoever.  Also fuel that comes out while bleeding is clean.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> Fountain via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, July 06, 2015 9:18 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Paul Fountain
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank
>
>
>
> Or the pickup becomes blocked, and air gets sucked in elsewhere in the
> fuel system.
>
>
>
> *Paul Fountain*
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Frederick G Street via
> CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, July 6, 2015 9:12 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Frederick G Street
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank
>
>
>
> Petar — it might be that the fuel pickup tube is corroded, and either
> doesn’t drop as far down into the fuel as it should/used to, or you have
> some pits in it above the half-tank level that allow air it.  Sounds like
> time to pull and check it.
>
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V *Oceanis* (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Anyone has an idea why this happened twice in a row.
>
>
>
> Two trips to Block island this year and at about the same spot, right
> where seas get a little lumpy, and on about half full tank, diesel sucks in
> air and dies.  First time was pounding into 20-kts (not a good way to
> travel), second time with no wind but large confused seas.
>
> The first time I sailed and dropped a hook before bleeding the injectors.
>  Second time I added 5 gal jerry can and after bleeding injectors in 6 foot
> swell got her started without a problem.   Ran fine after that in same
> conditions.
>
>
>
> I guess I should check to make sure fuel gauge is calibrated, although
> I’ve been using it the past 3-4 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Petar Horvatic
>
> Sundowner
>
> 76 C&C 38MkII
>
> Newport, RI
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

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Re: Stus-List Damage to fibreglas

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Polyester resin doesn’t stick too well to anything except uncured polyester
resin.

That’s why Gougeon’s recommend epoxy for fiberglass repair.  Well, that, and
they sell it, of course. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMVCwhz_hY4

 

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39

Erie PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Hazzard via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 1:57 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Fred Hazzard
Subject: Stus-List Damage to fibreglas

 

I put a hole in several layers of fibreglas about a foot above the waterline
in the side of my boat.  As it may take some time before repairs are made,
 should I seal the glass to prevent water from getting in the layup?  If
so what should I use?

 

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

Portland, Or

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Re: Stus-List Damage to fibreglas

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

/Q. I have heard that gel coat will not adhere well to epoxy 
. Can you confirm 
this?/


A. There is a common misconception, fueled by some gelcoat 
 manufacturers 
and by some expensive failures in the field, that gelcoat will not bond 
to epoxy. Polyester resin bonds poorly in a secondary (mechanical) 
bonding situation which consequently makes epoxy the resin of choice for 
repairs . How can 
one be squared with the other?


The answer is surprisingly simple - *gelcoat does bond to a properly 
cured and prepared epoxy surface*. There are a couple issues to be aware 
of to have success making this repair. There are three situations that 
cause gelcoat to not cure over epoxy... all related to the hardener 
chemistry. Epoxy hardeners are basically a blend of amines, which can 
terminate the chain reaction of the radical molecule that is the basis 
of polyester (and vinylester) cure chemistry. So by carefully mixing, 
curing, and preparing of the epoxy so that there are no unreacted amines 
to interfere with the gelcoat cure, gelcoat bonds quite well to epoxy.


The first situation is _undercured epoxy_. Gelcoat applied to undercured 
epoxy will be in contact with unreacted amines and the cure will be halted.


The second situation is if the epoxy is mixed _off ratio_ so that it is 
hardener rich, again leaving unreacted amines free to interfere.


Third is the issue of _amine blush_, commonly called blush. Blush is a 
surface phenomena that is a reaction of the amine molecules at the 
surface with the carbon dioxide in the air. It forms easiest in the 
presence of moisture, so working in cool, humid environments will 
maximize the formation of blush. Any amine hardener has the potential to 
blush, but it can be minimized by careful choices of amines in the 
formulation. In fact, WEST SYSTEM 207 Special coating hardener is one of 
the lowest blushing hardeners on the market and still maintains 
structural properties on par with our other hardeners. Regardless of 
chemistry, blush is very easily dealt with because it is water 
 soluble. A simple 
wash with clear water 
 removes the blush. 
No soap, no solvents. Then sand that washed surface with 80 grit paper 
to provide the gelcoat with sufficient key so it won't run. Be sure to 
use non-air inhibited gelcoat that has a paraffin wax added. Gelcoat is 
applied over epoxy on a routine basis everyday in boatyards 
 that are aware 
of these issues.
*Bruce Niederer*, Technical Services West System Inc. 
http://www.westsystem.com/ 



See also the articles at:
http://www.epoxyworks.com/indexprojects.html 



On 7/6/2015 11:42 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote:


Polyester resin doesn’t stick too well to anything except uncured 
polyester resin.


That’s why Gougeon’s recommend epoxy for fiberglass repair.  Well, 
that, and they sell it, of course.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMVCwhz_hY4

Bill Coleman

C&C 39

Erie PA

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Fred Hazzard via CnC-List

*Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2015 1:57 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Fred Hazzard
*Subject:* Stus-List Damage to fibreglas

I put a hole in several layers of fibreglas about a foot above the 
waterline in the side of my boat.  As it may take some time before 
repairs are made, Â should I seal the glass to prevent water from 
getting in the layup?  If so what should I use?


Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

Portland, Or


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Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[Petar Horvatic via CnC-List]

So my gage is a bit off, it was showing half tank both times when engine died. 
But 5 gallon jerry can brought the needle to near full.  Tank is 20 gallons.   
When needle is at full, I can add another half of the jerry can before I 
overfill (diesel starts coming out the air vent).  This are observations from 
past 3 years.  

I will repeat that to confirm.

On a another note, a friend was telling me about dividers inside a tank to 
prevent fuel from stirring up too much and that gasoline tanks do not have 
this, where as diesel tanks do.  Tank I have was originally used for gasoline 
engine so that might be something.  Not sure if anyone can confirm or deny 
this. 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:29 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson
Subject: Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

 

Peter,

 

How low did the gauge read?  How much did you think you had before adding the 5 
gallons?  What did it read after? Did you top it off and see of the numbers 
added up?  

I agree it sounds like a plumbing issue with the vent or pickup.  I hope your 
access to the tank is better than mine!

 

Joel

35/3

Annapolis

 

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List 
 wrote:

So if the pickup was blocked, why on both occasions after bleeding(once in calm 
water and second time in rough water but after adding 5 more gallons to the 
tank) it ran without a problem for hours, 2nd time in the same rough seas.  

 

The tank was out (dried out and inspected) over the winter in 2011/2012.   So 
was the pickup and sender at which time I don’t remember seeing any signs of 
corrosion etc.  It might be good to mention that prior to 2012, I had atomic 4 
(gasoline) engine.  I put westrerbeake in the spring of 2012 after a full 
rebuild.  I kept the tank.  Hoses were all new.   My primary is the Racor 230R 
Diesel Spin-On Series filter/water separator.  I change that and secondary 
filter every commissioning.  No signs of water whatsoever.  Also fuel that 
comes out while bleeding is clean.  

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Paul 
Fountain via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 9:18 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Paul Fountain
Subject: Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

 

Or the pickup becomes blocked, and air gets sucked in elsewhere in the fuel 
system.  

 

Paul Fountain

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2015 9:12 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frederick G Street
Subject: Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

 

Petar — it might be that the fuel pickup tube is corroded, and either doesn’t 
drop as far down into the fuel as it should/used to, or you have some pits in 
it above the half-tank level that allow air it.  Sounds like time to pull and 
check it.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

 

On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

Anyone has an idea why this happened twice in a row.  

 

Two trips to Block island this year and at about the same spot, right where 
seas get a little lumpy, and on about half full tank, diesel sucks in air and 
dies.  First time was pounding into 20-kts (not a good way to travel), second 
time with no wind but large confused seas.  

The first time I sailed and dropped a hook before bleeding the injectors.   
Second time I added 5 gal jerry can and after bleeding injectors in 6 foot 
swell got her started without a problem.   Ran fine after that in same 
conditions. 

 

I guess I should check to make sure fuel gauge is calibrated, although I’ve 
been using it the past 3-4 years.  

 

 

Petar Horvatic

Sundowner

76 C&C 38MkII

Newport, RI

 


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-- 

Joel 
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

The diesel tank on our 29-2 definitely did not have dividers. I think our
tanks are too small to warrant dividers.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 6 July 2015 at 09:20, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List 
wrote:

> So my gage is a bit off, it was showing half tank both times when engine
> died. But 5 gallon jerry can brought the needle to near full.  Tank is 20
> gallons.   When needle is at full, I can add another half of the jerry can
> before I overfill (diesel starts coming out the air vent).  This are
> observations from past 3 years.
>
> I will repeat that to confirm.
>
> On a another note, a friend was telling me about dividers inside a tank to
> prevent fuel from stirring up too much and that gasoline tanks do not have
> this, where as diesel tanks do.  Tank I have was originally used for
> gasoline engine so that might be something.  Not sure if anyone can confirm
> or deny this.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel
> Aronson via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, July 06, 2015 11:29 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Joel Aronson
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank
>
>
>
> Peter,
>
>
>
> How low did the gauge read?  How much did you think you had before adding
> the 5 gallons?  What did it read after? Did you top it off and see of the
> numbers added up?
>
> I agree it sounds like a plumbing issue with the vent or pickup.  I hope
> your access to the tank is better than mine!
>
>
>
> Joel
>
> 35/3
>
> Annapolis
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> So if the pickup was blocked, why on both occasions after bleeding(once in
> calm water and second time in rough water but after adding 5 more gallons
> to the tank) it ran without a problem for hours, 2nd time in the same
> rough seas.
>
>
>
> The tank was out (dried out and inspected) over the winter in 2011/2012.
> So was the pickup and sender at which time I don’t remember seeing any
> signs of corrosion etc.  It might be good to mention that prior to 2012, I
> had atomic 4 (gasoline) engine.  I put westrerbeake in the spring of 2012
> after a full rebuild.  I kept the tank.  Hoses were all new.   My primary
> is the Racor 230R Diesel Spin-On Series filter/water separator.  I change
> that and secondary filter every commissioning.  No signs of water
> whatsoever.  Also fuel that comes out while bleeding is clean.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> Fountain via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, July 06, 2015 9:18 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Paul Fountain
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank
>
>
>
> Or the pickup becomes blocked, and air gets sucked in elsewhere in the
> fuel system.
>
>
>
> *Paul Fountain*
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Frederick G Street via
> CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, July 6, 2015 9:12 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Frederick G Street
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List westerbeake sucking in air on a half tank
>
>
>
> Petar — it might be that the fuel pickup tube is corroded, and either
> doesn’t drop as far down into the fuel as it should/used to, or you have
> some pits in it above the half-tank level that allow air it.  Sounds like
> time to pull and check it.
>
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V *Oceanis* (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Petar Horvatic via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Anyone has an idea why this happened twice in a row.
>
>
>
> Two trips to Block island this year and at about the same spot, right
> where seas get a little lumpy, and on about half full tank, diesel sucks in
> air and dies.  First time was pounding into 20-kts (not a good way to
> travel), second time with no wind but large confused seas.
>
> The first time I sailed and dropped a hook before bleeding the injectors.
>  Second time I added 5 gal jerry can and after bleeding injectors in 6 foot
> swell got her started without a problem.   Ran fine after that in same
> conditions.
>
>
>
> I guess I should check to make sure fuel gauge is calibrated, although
> I’ve been using it the past 3-4 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Petar Horvatic
>
> Sundowner
>
> 76 C&C 38MkII
>
> Newport, RI
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
>
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>
>
>
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Stus-List Tach goes Kaput...

[David via CnC-List]

...after working intermittently on a 3QM30.   I remember hearing here an easy 
(ish) way to check whether it is connection to engine or tach itself.  

Thanks in advance!!

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)
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Re: Stus-List Tach goes Kaput...

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

David,

Does it have the flywheel pickup?  Not sure of the easy test, but corrosion
at the pickup is a likely cause.

Joel

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:16 PM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

> ...after working intermittently on a 3QM30.   I remember hearing here an
> easy (ish) way to check whether it is connection to engine or tach itself.
>
> Thanks in advance!!
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Tach goes Kaput...

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

If you have an o-scope then it's pretty easy.  Should just be a square wave
coming from the pickupwhile the engine is running.  Pretty sure the QMs
used a flywheel pickup the same as the HMs and GMs.  Otherwise it is
possible to use a volt meter on AC to detect the voltage, again with the
engine running.

Alternatively, use 2 people, one watching the tach and the other wiggling
each connection from the pickup to the gauge.  Pretty likely that it is the
tach.  They are not water or rust proof.  Mine needed replaced when I
bought the boat 3 years ago.  Don't just go with the "recommended" part.
Look for one that has an hour meter built in.  They make 'em.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jul 6, 2015 2:16 PM, "David via CnC-List"  wrote:

> ...after working intermittently on a 3QM30.   I remember hearing here an
> easy (ish) way to check whether it is connection to engine or tach itself.
>
> Thanks in advance!!
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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Stus-List Raymarine wheel pilot st 4000+

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

For some reason my wheel pilot will not send a signal to the drive motor.
It worked fine just after completing the compass deviation procedure which
gave 3 degrees but then when I next went to use it in AUTO mode nothing
happened, no +1 or +10 or -1 or -10 response from the motor that drives the
wheel and therefore no auto steering but everything else, like heading and
rudder angle worked fine.  Can anyone shed light on this, like is there a
test that I could do to see if the problem is with the control unit or the
drive motor?


Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine wheel pilot st 4000+

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Dwight,

I've had the same problem twice, and both times it was a loose wire on the
back of the motor.  Felt stupid the second time!  wonder how I'll feel the
third time!

Joel

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:37 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> For some reason my wheel pilot will not send a signal to the drive motor.
> It worked fine just after completing the compass deviation procedure which
> gave 3 degrees but then when I next went to use it in AUTO mode nothing
> happened, no +1 or +10 or -1 or -10 response from the motor that drives the
> wheel and therefore no auto steering but everything else, like heading and
> rudder angle worked fine.  Can anyone shed light on this, like is there a
> test that I could do to see if the problem is with the control unit or the
> drive motor?
>
>
> Dwight Veinot
> C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine wheel pilot st 4000+

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Thanks Joel, I will check that...can you tell me how to open the motor
housing in order to see the wires

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dwight,
>
> I've had the same problem twice, and both times it was a loose wire on the
> back of the motor.  Felt stupid the second time!  wonder how I'll feel the
> third time!
>
> Joel
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:37 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> For some reason my wheel pilot will not send a signal to the drive
>> motor.  It worked fine just after completing the compass deviation
>> procedure which gave 3 degrees but then when I next went to use it in AUTO
>> mode nothing happened, no +1 or +10 or -1 or -10 response from the motor
>> that drives the wheel and therefore no auto steering but everything else,
>> like heading and rudder angle worked fine.  Can anyone shed light on this,
>> like is there a test that I could do to see if the problem is with the
>> control unit or the drive motor?
>>
>>
>> Dwight Veinot
>> C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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>> bottom of page at:
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine wheel pilot st 4000+

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

It was just the wire lead to the motor. Pushed it in and tightened the lock
nut. Mine is a little newer X 5 so the connector might be different. I hope
it's that simple for you!

Joel

On Monday, July 6, 2015, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Thanks Joel, I will check that...can you tell me how to open the motor
> housing in order to see the wires
>
> Dwight Veinot
> C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
> 
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Dwight,
>>
>> I've had the same problem twice, and both times it was a loose wire on
>> the back of the motor.  Felt stupid the second time!  wonder how I'll feel
>> the third time!
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:37 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> For some reason my wheel pilot will not send a signal to the drive
>>> motor.  It worked fine just after completing the compass deviation
>>> procedure which gave 3 degrees but then when I next went to use it in AUTO
>>> mode nothing happened, no +1 or +10 or -1 or -10 response from the motor
>>> that drives the wheel and therefore no auto steering but everything else,
>>> like heading and rudder angle worked fine.  Can anyone shed light on this,
>>> like is there a test that I could do to see if the problem is with the
>>> control unit or the drive motor?
>>>
>>>
>>> Dwight Veinot
>>> C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
>>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>>> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Email address:
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>> 
>>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>>> bottom of page at:
>>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel
>> 301 541 8551
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> 
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>> bottom of page at:
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>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Sucking air

[Charles Nelson via CnC-List]

In addition to all the other possibilities, keep in mind that your pick- up 
tube determines the remaining fuel amount. If it only goes down to 1/4 tank, 
you are empty no matter what any gauge tells you. Don't ask me how I know but I 
learned this more than once!

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb



Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Stus-List Sucking air

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

If you do wind up pulling the pick up tube, see if it still has a screen 
over the end. If it does, my advice is to remove it. Your primary filter can 
handle a lot more guck before it clogs than that little screen, and it is 
usually easier to get at too.


Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON 



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Re: Stus-List Raymarine wheel pilot st 4000+

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

The connectors can get loose on the back of the control head, as well. Ask
me how I know.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 6 July 2015 at 14:30, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
wrote:

> It was just the wire lead to the motor. Pushed it in and tightened the
> lock nut. Mine is a little newer X 5 so the connector might be different. I
> hope it's that simple for you!
>
> Joel
>
>
> On Monday, July 6, 2015, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Joel, I will check that...can you tell me how to open the motor
>> housing in order to see the wires
>>
>> Dwight Veinot
>> C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dwight,
>>>
>>> I've had the same problem twice, and both times it was a loose wire on
>>> the back of the motor.  Felt stupid the second time!  wonder how I'll feel
>>> the third time!
>>>
>>> Joel
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:37 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 For some reason my wheel pilot will not send a signal to the drive
 motor.  It worked fine just after completing the compass deviation
 procedure which gave 3 degrees but then when I next went to use it in AUTO
 mode nothing happened, no +1 or +10 or -1 or -10 response from the motor
 that drives the wheel and therefore no auto steering but everything else,
 like heading and rudder angle worked fine.  Can anyone shed light on this,
 like is there a test that I could do to see if the problem is with the
 control unit or the drive motor?


 Dwight Veinot
 C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
 Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 d.ve...@bellaliant.net


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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joel
>>> 301 541 8551
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Email address:
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>>> bottom of page at:
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
>
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>
>
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Stus-List Boom out haul slide question

[Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List]

<<< text/html; charset=us-ascii: Unrecognized >>>
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