Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can
easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square.  It fills the footprint of the
well.  There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly
above the pump.  It is a flipper style.

2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500
w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch.  I also
rewired everything.  Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule
500 pump did not have tinned wires!  And the gauge was less than desired at
about 18awg.  I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't
trust crimps as much as solder.  I used my best Electronic Technician's
training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive
lined heat shrink to seal the connections.  I also think I used 14awg.

The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in OFF
the flipper will still actuate the pump.  The on/off switch for the pump is
on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic sensor
which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge.  It
automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then
shuts off.  After 2 minutes it "tests" by starting for a moment and
measuring the current draw.  If the pump is "doing work" (more current)
then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again.  So
ON is really AUTO.

Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have never
really used the "auto" feature.  I attempted to correct the back flow
problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge.
It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm
there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone.  This means that the
pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper
is mounted above the pump.

I have considered using 2 pumps.  The gusher 320 for getting to the deepest
part of the bildge.  And a larger 1000 or 1500gph  Rule mounted above the
sensor for the gusher.  During normal operation the gusher would run in
auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming
submerged.  If something were to cause an increase in the water level then
the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, "David Blair via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level the
> integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical
> energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose,
> waiting for it to trickle back, repumping it again, and so on. Inserting a
> backflow preventer slows the process somewhat but not entirely. Other than
> plumbing the discharge into the galley drain so the outflow is minimized I
> am not sure how to stop the constant recycling. The integral switch doesn't
> seem to have any option for adjustment and I am don't see how a separate
> switch would be any different unless it was placed  higher than the pump.
> My boat (34+) has a small collection area - maybe a litre of water in the
> bilge.  The only source of outside water is rain down the mast, so this is
> a periodic problem.   Any solutions or suggestions?
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jake
> Brodersen via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:27 PM
> *To:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
>
>
>
> Sam,
>
>
>
> The integral switches are "interesting".  Most of them spin the pump
> impeller at regular intervals.  If they encounter resistance, they continue
> to run the pump until less resistance is encountered.  There is nothing
> wrong with this approach, unless you can hear the pump from your bunk.  I
> prefer pumps to be actuated by a switch than senses a need for the pump to
> run.
>
>
>
> Jake
>
>
>
>
>
> *Jake Brodersen*
>
> *"Midnight Mistress"*
>
> *C&C 35 Mk-III*
>
> *Hampton VA*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com [mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 7:11 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
>
>
>
> What about those solid state switches that are integral with the pump.
>
> Anyone have any experience with these?
>
>
>
> I've got a Whale pump like this, but haven't got around to installing it
> yet.
>
>
>
> sam :-)
>
> C&C 26 Liquorice
>
> Ghost Lake Alberta
>
>
>
> *From: *Jake Brodersen via CnC-List
>
> *Sent: *Sunday, March 22, 2015 3:51 PM
>
> *To: *'Josh Muckley'; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> *Reply To: *Jake Brodersen
>
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
>
>
>
> Josh,
>
>
>
> The wiring is certainly suspect at this point in the boat's age.  I prefer
> to mount the pump low in the bilge because most of them push water better
> than pulling it uphill.  Putting it another way, they blow better tha

Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,

You do have another option.  The Rule-Mate RM1100A will fit in your bilge.

http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/RM500A_750A_1100A_SS_950-0595.pdf

Ken H.

On 23 March 2015 at 06:44, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
wrote:

> The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can
> easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square.  It fills the footprint of the
> well.  There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly
> above the pump.  It is a flipper style.
>
> 2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500
> w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch.  I also
> rewired everything.  Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule
> 500 pump did not have tinned wires!  And the gauge was less than desired at
> about 18awg.  I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't
> trust crimps as much as solder.  I used my best Electronic Technician's
> training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive
> lined heat shrink to seal the connections.  I also think I used 14awg.
>
> The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in
> OFF the flipper will still actuate the pump.  The on/off switch for the
> pump is on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic
> sensor which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge.  It
> automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then
> shuts off.  After 2 minutes it "tests" by starting for a moment and
> measuring the current draw.  If the pump is "doing work" (more current)
> then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again.  So
> ON is really AUTO.
>
> Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have never
> really used the "auto" feature.  I attempted to correct the back flow
> problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge.
> It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm
> there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone.  This means that the
> pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper
> is mounted above the pump.
>
> I have considered using 2 pumps.  The gusher 320 for getting to the
> deepest part of the bildge.  And a larger 1000 or 1500gph  Rule mounted
> above the sensor for the gusher.  During normal operation the gusher would
> run in auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming
> submerged.  If something were to cause an increase in the water level then
> the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, "David Blair via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level
>> the integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical
>> energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose,
>> waiting for it to trickle back, repumping it again, and so on. Inserting a
>> backflow preventer slows the process somewhat but not entirely. Other than
>> plumbing the discharge into the galley drain so the outflow is minimized I
>> am not sure how to stop the constant recycling. The integral switch doesn’t
>> seem to have any option for adjustment and I am don’t see how a separate
>> switch would be any different unless it was placed  higher than the pump.
>> My boat (34+) has a small collection area – maybe a litre of water in the
>> bilge.  The only source of outside water is rain down the mast, so this is
>> a periodic problem.   Any solutions or suggestions?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jake
>> Brodersen via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:27 PM
>> *To:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam,
>>
>>
>>
>> The integral switches are “interesting”.  Most of them spin the pump
>> impeller at regular intervals.  If they encounter resistance, they continue
>> to run the pump until less resistance is encountered.  There is nothing
>> wrong with this approach, unless you can hear the pump from your bunk.  I
>> prefer pumps to be actuated by a switch than senses a need for the pump to
>> run.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jake
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Jake Brodersen*
>>
>> *“Midnight Mistress”*
>>
>> *C&C 35 Mk-III*
>>
>> *Hampton VA*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com [mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
>> ]
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 7:11 PM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
>>
>>
>>
>> What about those solid state switches that are integral with the pump.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience with these?
>>
>>
>>
>> I've got a Whale pump like this, but haven't got around to installing it
>> yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> sam :-)
>>
>> C&C 26 Liquorice
>>
>> Ghost Lake Alberta
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Jake Brodersen via CnC-List
>>
>> *Sent

Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Ken,

I took a look.  I take it this is what you use?  Do you ever find that it
runs non-stop?  Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires?  Do you
recall if the wires were tinned?

Josh
On Mar 23, 2015 5:55 AM, "Ken Heaton"  wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>
> You do have another option.  The Rule-Mate RM1100A will fit in your bilge.
>
> http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/RM500A_750A_1100A_SS_950-0595.pdf
>
> Ken H.
>
> On 23 March 2015 at 06:44, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can
>> easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square.  It fills the footprint of the
>> well.  There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly
>> above the pump.  It is a flipper style.
>>
>> 2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500
>> w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch.  I also
>> rewired everything.  Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule
>> 500 pump did not have tinned wires!  And the gauge was less than desired at
>> about 18awg.  I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't
>> trust crimps as much as solder.  I used my best Electronic Technician's
>> training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive
>> lined heat shrink to seal the connections.  I also think I used 14awg.
>>
>> The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in
>> OFF the flipper will still actuate the pump.  The on/off switch for the
>> pump is on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic
>> sensor which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge.  It
>> automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then
>> shuts off.  After 2 minutes it "tests" by starting for a moment and
>> measuring the current draw.  If the pump is "doing work" (more current)
>> then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again.  So
>> ON is really AUTO.
>>
>> Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have
>> never really used the "auto" feature.  I attempted to correct the back flow
>> problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge.
>> It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm
>> there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone.  This means that the
>> pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper
>> is mounted above the pump.
>>
>> I have considered using 2 pumps.  The gusher 320 for getting to the
>> deepest part of the bildge.  And a larger 1000 or 1500gph  Rule mounted
>> above the sensor for the gusher.  During normal operation the gusher would
>> run in auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming
>> submerged.  If something were to cause an increase in the water level then
>> the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>> On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, "David Blair via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level
>>> the integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical
>>> energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose,
>>> waiting for it to trickle back, repumping it again, and so on. Inserting a
>>> backflow preventer slows the process somewhat but not entirely. Other than
>>> plumbing the discharge into the galley drain so the outflow is minimized I
>>> am not sure how to stop the constant recycling. The integral switch doesn't
>>> seem to have any option for adjustment and I am don't see how a separate
>>> switch would be any different unless it was placed  higher than the pump.
>>> My boat (34+) has a small collection area - maybe a litre of water in the
>>> bilge.  The only source of outside water is rain down the mast, so this is
>>> a periodic problem.   Any solutions or suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jake
>>> Brodersen via CnC-List
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:27 PM
>>> *To:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The integral switches are "interesting".  Most of them spin the pump
>>> impeller at regular intervals.  If they encounter resistance, they continue
>>> to run the pump until less resistance is encountered.  There is nothing
>>> wrong with this approach, unless you can hear the pump from your bunk.  I
>>> prefer pumps to be actuated by a switch than senses a need for the pump to
>>> run.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jake
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Jake Brodersen*
>>>
>>> *"Midnight Mistress"*
>>>
>>> *C&C 35 Mk-III*
>>>
>>> *Hampton VA*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* sam.c.sal...@gmail.com [mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
>>> ]
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 7:11 PM
>>> *To:* 

Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,

I take it this is what you use?  - Yes, seems to work well.

Do you ever find that it runs non-stop? - Occasionally, I don't leave it on
when I'm not on the boat.  I am considering installing a 2nd larger pump
higher up with a separate run of discharge hose with a float switch I can
leave on all the time.  The one I have now is under hosed (3/4") from the
factory with a check valve as this pump will get down to the last 1/2" of
water in the bilge.

Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires?  - Yes

Do you recall if the wires were tinned? - I think they AREN'T tinned.

Ken H.
S/V Salazar - C&C 37/40XL
Cape Breton Island
Nova Scotia, Canada

On 23 March 2015 at 07:06, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Ken,
>
> I took a look.  I take it this is what you use?  Do you ever find that it
> runs non-stop?  Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires?  Do you
> recall if the wires were tinned?
>
> Josh
> On Mar 23, 2015 5:55 AM, "Ken Heaton"  wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh,
>>
>> You do have another option.  The Rule-Mate RM1100A will fit in your bilge.
>>
>> http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/RM500A_750A_1100A_SS_950-0595.pdf
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> On 23 March 2015 at 06:44, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can
>>> easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square.  It fills the footprint of the
>>> well.  There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly
>>> above the pump.  It is a flipper style.
>>>
>>> 2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500
>>> w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch.  I also
>>> rewired everything.  Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule
>>> 500 pump did not have tinned wires!  And the gauge was less than desired at
>>> about 18awg.  I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't
>>> trust crimps as much as solder.  I used my best Electronic Technician's
>>> training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive
>>> lined heat shrink to seal the connections.  I also think I used 14awg.
>>>
>>> The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in
>>> OFF the flipper will still actuate the pump.  The on/off switch for the
>>> pump is on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic
>>> sensor which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge.  It
>>> automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then
>>> shuts off.  After 2 minutes it "tests" by starting for a moment and
>>> measuring the current draw.  If the pump is "doing work" (more current)
>>> then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again.  So
>>> ON is really AUTO.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have
>>> never really used the "auto" feature.  I attempted to correct the back flow
>>> problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge.
>>> It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm
>>> there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone.  This means that the
>>> pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper
>>> is mounted above the pump.
>>>
>>> I have considered using 2 pumps.  The gusher 320 for getting to the
>>> deepest part of the bildge.  And a larger 1000 or 1500gph  Rule mounted
>>> above the sensor for the gusher.  During normal operation the gusher would
>>> run in auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming
>>> submerged.  If something were to cause an increase in the water level then
>>> the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking.
>>>
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C&C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>> On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, "David Blair via CnC-List" <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level
 the integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical
 energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose,
 waiting for it to trickle back, repumping it again, and so on. Inserting a
 backflow preventer slows the process somewhat but not entirely. Other than
 plumbing the discharge into the galley drain so the outflow is minimized I
 am not sure how to stop the constant recycling. The integral switch doesn’t
 seem to have any option for adjustment and I am don’t see how a separate
 switch would be any different unless it was placed  higher than the pump.
 My boat (34+) has a small collection area – maybe a litre of water in the
 bilge.  The only source of outside water is rain down the mast, so this is
 a periodic problem.   Any solutions or suggestions?



 *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jake
 Brodersen via CnC-List
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:27 PM

Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps.  Every
5 minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't imagine
sleeping on a boat with one of those installed.

How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a
convenient and protected location.  Power it from one of the battery
connections on the back side of your main battery switch.  I usually
connect it to the house bank.  If you can find it, Ancor make some nice
14/3 AWG bilge pump cable.  Run that or two positives and a single negative
to the bilge.

Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini
Bilge Pump switch to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
___

Email address:
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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to above
the floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with a 50/50 mix
of ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of the pump submerged
in the same mix...I think that helps to keep the pump in good shape for
next season

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Thoughts on bilge pumps.
>
> First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps.  Every
> 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't imagine
> sleeping on a boat with one of those installed.
>
> How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a
> convenient and protected location.  Power it from one of the battery
> connections on the back side of your main battery switch.  I usually
> connect it to the house bank.  If you can find it, Ancor make some nice
> 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable.  Run that or two positives and a single negative
> to the bilge.
>
> Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems
> Mini Bilge Pump switch to it.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ
>
> You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

Email address:
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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Please note, the smaller Rule-Mate Pumps I've listed (the 500, the 750 and
the 1100) are NOT the type that does a test run every few minutes.

The larger Rule-Mates, the Electromechanical Rule Mate I series, are
available in 1500 & 2000 sizes but won't fit to the bottom of the bilge in
the C&C 37/40+ & XL.

The 500, the 750 and the 1100 Rule-Mate uses a solid state water level
sensor built into the pump body so it only starts to run if 2" or more of
water are present.  Also, It won't start running if your bilge is full of
diesel instead of water, the sensor can differentiate between them.

Ken H.
S/V Salazar - C&C 37/40XL
Cape Breton Island
Nova Scotia, Canada

On 23 March 2015 at 08:19, Ken Heaton  wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>
> I take it this is what you use?  - Yes, seems to work well.
>
> Do you ever find that it runs non-stop? - Occasionally, I don't leave it
> on when I'm not on the boat.  I am considering installing a 2nd larger pump
> higher up with a separate run of discharge hose with a float switch I can
> leave on all the time.  The one I have now is under hosed (3/4") from the
> factory with a check valve as this pump will get down to the last 1/2" of
> water in the bilge.
>
> Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires?  - Yes
>
> Do you recall if the wires were tinned? - I think they AREN'T tinned.
>
> Ken H.
> S/V Salazar - C&C 37/40XL
> Cape Breton Island
> Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>
> On 23 March 2015 at 07:06, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Ken,
>>
>> I took a look.  I take it this is what you use?  Do you ever find that it
>> runs non-stop?  Does it ever get submerged, particularly the wires?  Do you
>> recall if the wires were tinned?
>>
>> Josh
>> On Mar 23, 2015 5:55 AM, "Ken Heaton"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Josh,
>>>
>>> You do have another option.  The Rule-Mate RM1100A will fit in your
>>> bilge.
>>>
>>> http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/RM500A_750A_1100A_SS_950-0595.pdf
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>>
>>> On 23 March 2015 at 06:44, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 The bildge in mine is pretty narrow and deep so the largest pump I can
 easily fit is a Rule 800 that is square.  It fills the footprint of the
 well.  There isn't a good place for the switch except for almost directly
 above the pump.  It is a flipper style.

 2 years ago I replaced the original (to me) Rule 800 with a Rule 500
 w/rulematic controller and also kept the float/flipper switch.  I also
 rewired everything.  Frustrating though was that the new SUBMERSIBLE Rule
 500 pump did not have tinned wires!  And the gauge was less than desired at
 about 18awg.  I read a lot about solder not being acceptable but don't
 trust crimps as much as solder.  I used my best Electronic Technician's
 training from the Navy to solder all the pump's leads and used adhesive
 lined heat shrink to seal the connections.  I also think I used 14awg.

 The flipper switch is wired so that even with the OFF-1-ALL-2 switch in
 OFF the flipper will still actuate the pump.  The on/off switch for the
 pump is on the switch panel and wired such that ON actuate the rulematic
 sensor which will run the pump until no more water is in the bildge.  It
 automatically senses that it is doing less work (less current) and then
 shuts off.  After 2 minutes it "tests" by starting for a moment and
 measuring the current draw.  If the pump is "doing work" (more current)
 then it runs until the water is gone and the cycle starts over again.  So
 ON is really AUTO.

 Unfortunately I have found the pump running non-stop in ON so I have
 never really used the "auto" feature.  I attempted to correct the back flow
 problem with a large check valve placed very close to the pump discharge.
 It still isn't perfect so I just turn it on and then turn it off while I'm
 there and let the float do it's job while I'm gone.  This means that the
 pump stays submerged for a large majority of it's life because the flipper
 is mounted above the pump.

 I have considered using 2 pumps.  The gusher 320 for getting to the
 deepest part of the bildge.  And a larger 1000 or 1500gph  Rule mounted
 above the sensor for the gusher.  During normal operation the gusher would
 run in auto using a new level switch and keep the larger pump from becoming
 submerged.  If something were to cause an increase in the water level then
 the larger pump would actuate and prevent floading/sinking.

 Josh Muckley
 S/V Sea Hawk
 1989 C&C 37+
 Solomons, MD
 On Mar 23, 2015 1:45 AM, "David Blair via CnC-List" <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I find that since there is a lift of a few feet to the discharge level
> the integral switch causes the pump to spend its time (and my electrical
> energy) pumping the same litre or so of water up the discharge hose,
> 

Stus-List Landfall 43 ketch owners

[Bill Mania via CnC-List]

I'm in the process of buying a 1984 Landfall 43 with a ketch rig. I'd
really like to find other owners, in order to compare notes. Are there
any on the west coast of the USA, or anywhere else?

-- 
Bill Mania

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Stus-List halyard stoppers

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Ours came with the Lewmar D1 or D2's.  They work well.

 I don't have any particular procedure and there's a very slight difference
in lever pressure opening / closing them at full load or no load at all and
it's very easy regardless.  Assuming the correct size line for the job (I
replaced a few) I also don't see any noticeable difference in line wear at
the clutch points and no clutch slip to speak of.

Regards

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ 'Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA___

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Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

I replaced my troublesome automatic Rule pump with Johnson 750 or 1000
gph / Water Witch switch combo.  (
https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products/BilgeSwitches.html
) Like yours. the way my sump is designed only the smaller pumps fit.   The
Rule pump had the stupid system that measures impeller resistance and with
slightest amount of crap in the water, the impeller got fouled and made the
pump run 24 / 7.

The Water Witch is fool proof so far and the pump works fine.

The only thing is: With the long run to the stern discharge the pump would
not prime with the joker valve so I have to do without and a couple cups of
water regurgitates in the sump after pumping..   The nice thing is with
that sump design the rest of the bilge is bone dry and since we sail pretty
often all year long, the water does not stay there long enough to smell.
Eventually I'll get a little wet / dry vac to suck it up before we close
the boat on Sunday night.

Regards

-Francois
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA___

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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Since purchasing this Enterprise about 10 years ago, I’ve gone through several 
automatic bilge pumps. Either the motor fails, never stops running or the float 
switch gets jammed. I’ve tried both the float switch and the automatic 
versions. 

I liked the idea of an automatic, especially if you have worries about 
through-hulls or stuffing boxes and don’t want to see your boat become a liquid 
asset, but that gets replaced with worries on if the pump is working correctly 
or is not always working and draining your battery system. 

And then I thought back to when I had the 1978 C&C 34 (the Enterprise-A). When 
I got on board, I did my usual pre-check of all systems which included checking 
the bilge. If I saw water, I turned the pump on. When I heard air-sucking 
noises, I turned it off. Easier. Much easier. 

So last year, I just got rid of the automatic. I get on board, I check, I pump. 
Honestly, I like it much better. 
 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 













> On Mar 23, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I replaced my troublesome automatic Rule pump with Johnson 750 or 1000 gph / 
> Water Witch switch combo.  ( 
> https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products/BilgeSwitches.html
>  
> )
>  Like yours. the way my sump is designed only the smaller pumps fit.   The 
> Rule pump had the stupid system that measures impeller resistance and with 
> slightest amount of crap in the water, the impeller got fouled and made the 
> pump run 24 / 7.   
> 
> The Water Witch is fool proof so far and the pump works fine.  
> 
> The only thing is: With the long run to the stern discharge the pump would 
> not prime with the joker valve so I have to do without and a couple cups of 
> water regurgitates in the sump after pumping..   The nice thing is with that 
> sump design the rest of the bilge is bone dry and since we sail pretty often 
> all year long, the water does not stay there long enough to smell.  
> Eventually I'll get a little wet / dry vac to suck it up before we close the 
> boat on Sunday night. 
> 
> Regards
> 
> -Francois 
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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> 

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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[David Blair via CnC-List]

Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the 
setup will fit in my narrow bilge (< 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM
To: CnClist
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

 

 

Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps.  Every 5 
minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't imagine sleeping on a 
boat with one of those installed.

How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a 
convenient and protected location.  Power it from one of the battery 
connections on the back side of your main battery switch.  I usually connect it 
to the house bank.  If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge 
pump cable.  Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. 

Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini 
Bilge Pump switch to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

Try an in-line self-priming pump and run the pick up into your bilge sump. 
(similar to the whale gusher but electric). I had one on my previous boat and 
it gave me no trouble at all. Best practice is to connect to limit the amount 
of distance between the pick-up and thru-hull discharge. Mine went to the 
galley sink drain (with a siphon loop) so the total distance was under 4 feet. 
That also limits the head (lift).

 

Advantages are you can size the pump for the max that will handle the size of 
your thru-hull, you can mount it in a convenient place and it isn’t submerged. 
Put the float switch right next to your pickup. Also, if the pick-up is well 
placed you can just about suck the bilge dry with the switch in ON. That was 
the only pump I didn’t replace in the 6 years I owned my previous boat. They 
cost a little more but well worth it.

 

 

Burt (Skip) Stratton

1974 C&C 33-3/4 tonner

Narragansett Bay, RI

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Blair 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 1:05 PM
To: 'Dennis C.'; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

 

Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the 
setup will fit in my narrow bilge (< 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM
To: CnClist
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

 

 

Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps.  Every 5 
minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't imagine sleeping on a 
boat with one of those installed.

How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a 
convenient and protected location.  Power it from one of the battery 
connections on the back side of your main battery switch.  I usually connect it 
to the house bank.  If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge 
pump cable.  Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. 

Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini 
Bilge Pump switch to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Edd:  I had the same problem with bilge pump float switches failing.  It turned 
out to be the old un-tinned wire.  Every time I replaced a switch, it would 
work for awhile until the un-tinned wires got corroded near the most recent 
splice.  Since I changed out this wiring to good tinned wire, I haven't had a 
single problem and the Rule 1500 has been the same pump all along.

Bob

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

> On Mar 23, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Since purchasing this Enterprise about 10 years ago, I’ve gone through 
> several automatic bilge pumps. Either the motor fails, never stops running or 
> the float switch gets jammed. I’ve tried both the float switch and the 
> automatic versions. 
> 
> I liked the idea of an automatic, especially if you have worries about 
> through-hulls or stuffing boxes and don’t want to see your boat become a 
> liquid asset, but that gets replaced with worries on if the pump is working 
> correctly or is not always working and draining your battery system. 
> 
> And then I thought back to when I had the 1978 C&C 34 (the Enterprise-A). 
> When I got on board, I did my usual pre-check of all systems which included 
> checking the bilge. If I saw water, I turned the pump on. When I heard 
> air-sucking noises, I turned it off. Easier. Much easier. 
> 
> So last year, I just got rid of the automatic. I get on board, I check, I 
> pump. Honestly, I like it much better. 
>  
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> 
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY 
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I replaced my troublesome automatic Rule pump with Johnson 750 or 1000 gph / 
>> Water Witch switch combo.  ( 
>> https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products/BilgeSwitches.html)
>>  Like yours. the way my sump is designed only the smaller pumps fit.   The 
>> Rule pump had the stupid system that measures impeller resistance and with 
>> slightest amount of crap in the water, the impeller got fouled and made the 
>> pump run 24 / 7.   
>> 
>> The Water Witch is fool proof so far and the pump works fine.  
>> 
>> The only thing is: With the long run to the stern discharge the pump would 
>> not prime with the joker valve so I have to do without and a couple cups of 
>> water regurgitates in the sump after pumping..   The nice thing is with that 
>> sump design the rest of the bilge is bone dry and since we sail pretty often 
>> all year long, the water does not stay there long enough to smell.  
>> Eventually I'll get a little wet / dry vac to suck it up before we close the 
>> boat on Sunday night. 
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> -Francois 
>> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
>> Lake Lanier, GA
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> of page at:
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> 
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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran house 
down into the bilge.  I did instal one flart switch in the sump to run one of 
the pumps automatically.  I really liked that setup.  The pumps stayed high and 
dry and there was less stuff in the bilge.


From my Android phone

 Original message 
From: David Blair via CnC-List  
Date: 03/23/2015  1:04 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: "'Dennis C.'" ,cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump 
 
Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the 
setup will fit in my narrow bilge (< 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM
To: CnClist
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
 
 
Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps.  Every 5 
minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't imagine sleeping on a 
boat with one of those installed.

How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a 
convenient and protected location.  Power it from one of the battery 
connections on the back side of your main battery switch.  I usually connect it 
to the house bank.  If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge 
pump cable.  Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. 

Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini 
Bilge Pump switch to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA___

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Re: Stus-List halyard stoppers

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

That's one thing that wasn't mentioned.  The Lewmars release under load.
Many of the "cam" type rope clutches need help.

I'm fairly picky about brands in several areas.  If I I had to rate my two
highest hardware recommendations, they would be Lewmar rope clutches and
Harken travelers.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Ours came with the Lewmar D1 or D2's.  They work well.
>
>  I don't have any particular procedure and there's a very slight
> difference in lever pressure opening / closing them at full load or no load
> at all and it's very easy regardless.  Assuming the correct size line for
> the job (I replaced a few) I also don't see any noticeable difference in
> line wear at the clutch points and no clutch slip to speak of.
>
> Regards
>
> -Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ 'Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

On my 35/3 installed one of these:
Whale Supersub Bilge Pump

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=15042&familyName=Whale+Supersub+Bilge+Pump

with a Johnson automatic switch​.  Had to clean the crud off the switch,
but otherwise no problems.

Your sump can't be any smaller!

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran
> house down into the bilge.  I did instal one flart switch in the sump to
> run one of the pumps automatically.  I really liked that setup.  The pumps
> stayed high and dry and there was less stuff in the bilge.
>
>
> From my Android phone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: David Blair via CnC-List 
> Date: 03/23/2015 1:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: "'Dennis C.'" ,cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
>
>
> Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the
> setup will fit in my narrow bilge (< 3” wide), but there may be a way.
> Cheers
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis
> C. via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM
> *To:* CnClist
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
>
>
>
>
>
> Thoughts on bilge pumps.
>
> First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps.  Every
> 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't imagine
> sleeping on a boat with one of those installed.
>
> How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a
> convenient and protected location.  Power it from one of the battery
> connections on the back side of your main battery switch.  I usually
> connect it to the house bank.  If you can find it, Ancor make some nice
> 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable.  Run that or two positives and a single negative
> to the bilge.
>
> Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems
> Mini Bilge Pump switch to it.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ
>
> You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> Touche' 35-1 #83
>
> Mandeville, LA
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Bilge pump

[robert via CnC-List]

Dwight:

I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winter storage...what's 
the point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, and the line, with 
antifreeze and then "above the floor boards" "leave the bottom end 
of the pump submerged in the same mix"? Mine is submerged in the 
antifreeze in the bilge without removing it.


Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere is the 
occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that I sometimes 
soak up with a paper towel.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2015-03-23 9:26 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote:
One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to 
above the floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with a 
50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of the 
pump submerged in the same mix...I think that helps to keep the pump 
in good shape for next season


Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, */Alianna/*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net 


On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch
pumps.  Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me
nuts.  Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed.

How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge
switch in a convenient and protected location.  Power it from one
of the battery connections on the back side of your main battery
switch.  I usually connect it to the house bank.  If you can find
it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable.  Run that or
two positives and a single negative to the bilge.

Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety
Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[robert via CnC-List]

David:

Been following these bilge threads...I don't know what model bilge pump 
and float switch I have on the boat...will go to the boat maybe this 
week...I will checkmy bilge is also very narrow and there is a pump 
and float switch anchored at its lowest pointpump can be operated 
manually or by the float switch or shut off completely via a master 
control switch we placed near the main electrical panel.


We initially installed a 'one way valve' in the discharge line to 
prevent backflow but it didn'tthe water always leaks 
back.removed it from the discharge lineno regrets.  In addition, 
I found that sometimes the 'one way valve' got fouled by the outflow and 
would not open completely..it was almost as sensitive to fouling as 
the know meter impeller.  Just one person's experience.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2015-03-23 2:04 PM, David Blair via CnC-List wrote:


Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether 
the setup will fit in my narrow bilge (< 3” wide), but there may be a 
way. Cheers


*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Dennis C. via CnC-List

*Sent:* Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM
*To:* CnClist
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps. 
Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't 
imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed.


How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch 
in a convenient and protected location.  Power it from one of the 
battery connections on the back side of your main battery switch.  I 
usually connect it to the house bank. If you can find it, Ancor make 
some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable.  Run that or two positives and a 
single negative to the bilge.


Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems 
Mini Bilge Pump switch to it.


http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA



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Re: Stus-List Bilge pump

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

The C&C Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck drains that 
drained into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains drained overboard.  
During the winter, these two midship deck drains can accumulate a lot of water 
in the bilge.  So, not all C&C's can simply use manually operated bilge pumps 
(unless you are living aboard and pay close attention to the bilge level).  
Also, any antifreeze mixture in the bilge will get diluted quite quickly.

Bob

On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, robert via CnC-List wrote:

> Dwight:
> 
> I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winter storage...what's the 
> point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, and the line, with antifreeze and 
> then "above the floor boards" "leave the bottom end of the pump submerged 
> in the same mix"?   Mine is submerged in the antifreeze in the bilge without 
> removing it.
> 
> Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere is the 
> occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that I sometimes soak up 
> with a paper towel.   
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
> 
>  
> 
> On 2015-03-23 9:26 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote:
>> One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to above the 
>> floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with a 50/50 mix of 
>> ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in 
>> the same mix...I think that helps to keep the pump in good shape for next 
>> season
>> 
>> Dwight Veinot
>> C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thoughts on bilge pumps.
>> 
>> First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps.  Every 5 
>> minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't imagine sleeping 
>> on a boat with one of those installed.
>> 
>> How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a 
>> convenient and protected location.  Power it from one of the battery 
>> connections on the back side of your main battery switch.  I usually connect 
>> it to the house bank.  If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG 
>> bilge pump cable.  Run that or two positives and a single negative to the 
>> bilge. 
>> 
>> Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini 
>> Bilge Pump switch to it.
>> 
>> http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ
>> 
>> You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
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>> of page at:
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>> 
> 
> ___
> 
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> of page at:
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> 

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyr...@icloud.com
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame

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Re: Stus-List Bilge pump

[robert via CnC-List]

Bob
Understandwater doesn't normally get into my bilge over the 
winterlucky that way.


If water were to get into Dwight's bilge over the winter, which I think 
it did, not sure, I believe Dwight installed a garboard drain to deal 
with that.  However, if the garboard drain doesn't mean a totally ice 
free bilge, I'd want my pump out of harm's way too.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


On 2015-03-23 3:34 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List wrote:
The C&C Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck 
drains that drained into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains 
drained overboard.  During the winter, these two midship deck drains 
can accumulate a lot of water in the bilge.  So, not all C&C's can 
simply use manually operated bilge pumps (unless you are living aboard 
and pay close attention to the bilge level).  Also, any antifreeze 
mixture in the bilge will get diluted quite quickly.


Bob

On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, robert via CnC-List wrote:


Dwight:

I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winter 
storage...what's the point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, and 
the line, with antifreeze and then "above the floor boards" 
"leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix"?   
Mine is submerged in the antifreeze in the bilge without removing it.


Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere is 
the occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that I 
sometimes soak up with a paper towel.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2015-03-23 9:26 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote:
One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to 
above the floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with 
a 50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of 
the pump submerged in the same mix...I think that helps to keep the 
pump in good shape for next season


Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, */Alianna/*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net 


On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch
pumps. Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops. Drives me
nuts.  Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed.

How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge
switch in a convenient and protected location.  Power it from
one of the battery connections on the back side of your main
battery switch.  I usually connect it to the house bank.  If you
can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. 
Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge.


Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety
Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

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Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com 

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as 
simply messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame




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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[David Blair via CnC-List]

Thanks.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 11:13 AM
To: Danny Haughey; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

 

On my 35/3 installed one of these:  


 


Whale Supersub Bilge Pump


 

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=15042 

 &familyName=Whale+Supersub+Bilge+Pump

 

with a Johnson automatic switch​.  Had to clean the crud off the switch, but 
otherwise no problems.

 

Your sump can't be any smaller!

 

Joel

35/3

Annapolis

 

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List 
 wrote:

On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran house 
down into the bilge.  I did instal one flart switch in the sump to run one of 
the pumps automatically.  I really liked that setup.  The pumps stayed high and 
dry and there was less stuff in the bilge.

 

 

>From my Android phone 


 Original message 
From: David Blair via CnC-List  
Date: 03/23/2015 1:04 PM (GMT-05:00) 
To: "'Dennis C.'" ,cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump 



Thanks for the info. From the look of the picture I don’t know whether the 
setup will fit in my narrow bilge (< 3” wide), but there may be a way. Cheers

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 5:13 AM
To: CnClist
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

 

 

Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch pumps.  Every 5 
minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't imagine sleeping on a 
boat with one of those installed.

How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a 
convenient and protected location.  Power it from one of the battery 
connections on the back side of your main battery switch.  I usually connect it 
to the house bank.  If you can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge 
pump cable.  Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge. 

Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety Systems Mini 
Bilge Pump switch to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA


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-- 

Joel 
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Bilge pump

[svpegasus38]

On Pegasus, my deck drains go to a thru-hull under the galley sink. This 
year I am going to reroute them to thru-hulls just below the toe rails. I also 
use this thru-hull for my wash down pump supply. Pegasus is hull #4. Maybe it 
was converted by a PO.DougPegasus LF38 Just west of Ballard, wa
T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network.


-- Original message--From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List Date: Mon, Mar 23, 
2015 11:34To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Subject:Re: Stus-List Bilge pumpThe C&C 
Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck drains that drained 
into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains drained overboard.  During the 
winter, these two midship deck drains can accumulate a lot of water in the 
bilge.  So, not all C&C's can simply use manually operated bilge pumps (unless 
you are living aboard and pay close attention to the bilge level).  Also, any 
antifreeze mixture in the bilge will get diluted quite quickly.
Bob
On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, robert via CnC-List wrote:
  Dwight:

I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winterstorage...what's 
the point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, andthe line, with antifreeze 
and then "above the floor boards""leave the bottom end of the pump 
submerged in the same mix"?  Mine is submerged in the antifreeze in the 
bilge without removingit.

Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere isthe 
occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that Isometimes soak up 
with a paper towel.   

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

 

On 2015-03-23 9:26 AM, dwight veinot  via CnC-List wrote:
  One additional thing that I do; remove my bilgepump and 
switch to above the floor boards during winter storageand flush the 
pump with a 50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and waterand leave the bottom 
end of the pump submerged in the samemix...I think that helps to keep 
the pump in good shape for nextseason

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
  d.ve...@bellaliant.net  

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis  C. via CnC-List 
  wrote:

Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat thathas 
one of those auto switch pumps.  Every 5 minutes orso it whirs 
and stops.  Drives me nuts.  Can't imaginesleeping on a boat 
with one of those installed.

How I wire a bilge pump.  First,
install a Rule 43 3 way bilge switch in a convenient and
protected location.  Power it from one of the battery
connections on the back side of your main batteryswitch.  I 
usually connect it to the house bank.  If youcan find it, Ancor 
make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pumpcable.  Run that or two 
positives and a single negativeto the bilge. 

Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra 
   Safety Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it.


http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice andvery 
reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
  
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Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyrays@icloud.comblog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing-

Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Whale Gusher as in the foot pedal / level manual pump?

If you meant Whale Gulpher then +1 for those. When I rebuilt
the mast step I put the remote pickup at the low spot and
an electronic switch. Good so far.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1



Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:05:56 -0400 
From: Danny Haughey  
To: dblair...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com, capt...@gmail.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump 
Message-ID: <7orp12qnj8oahh4u3vd9v46i.1427130574...@email.android.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran house 
down into the bilge. ?I did instal one flart switch in the sump to run one of 
the pumps automatically. ?I really liked that setup. ?The pumps stayed high and 
dry and there was less stuff in the bilge. 
 
 
>From my Android phone 
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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Yep, you're right, I misspoke in one of the first emails.  I meant whale
gulper 320.  The electric one without any smart sensors.

Josh
On Mar 23, 2015 8:03 PM, "Michael Brown via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Whale Gusher as in the foot pedal / level manual pump?
>
> If you meant Whale Gulpher then +1 for those. When I rebuilt
> the mast step I put the remote pickup at the low spot and
> an electronic switch. Good so far.
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:05:56 -0400
> From: Danny Haughey 
> To: dblair...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com, capt...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump
> Message-ID: <7orp12qnj8oahh4u3vd9v46i.1427130574...@email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran
> house down into the bilge. ?I did instal one flart switch in the sump to
> run one of the pumps automatically. ?I really liked that setup. ?The pumps
> stayed high and dry and there was less stuff in the bilge.
>
>
> From my Android phone
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List LF38 deck drains (was: Bilge pump)

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

My LF38 had them Tied and Teed into the galley sink drain.  I didn't 
like that.  When I replaced all my hoses I couldn't access the port one 
as it was run behind the ice box and wouldn't move, so I plugged up the 
drain for a while and thought about it.  I didn't think about it long 
enough, as my solution is so totally sub-optimal that I won't bother 
describing it.


I have added drains through the teak toe rails, by carefully working a 
hole saw right at deck level through the teak, and epoxying a section of 
PVC in there, sanding it flush and painting it.  That actually works 
great.  If I ever paint my deck, I'll take those amidships drains and 
glass them flush, and add two drains through the toe rail amidships.


Wal

Bob wrote:

The C&C Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck drains that 
drained into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains drained overboard.  During the 
winter, these two midship deck drains can accumulate a lot of water in the bilge.  So, 
not all C&C's can simply use manually operated bilge pumps (unless you are living 
aboard and pay close attention to the bilge level).  Also, any antifreeze mixture in 
the bilge will get diluted quite quickly.



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Stus-List Bilge pump

[robert via CnC-List]

Bob:
From the design you describe of mid-ship deck drains that drain into 
the bilge, it is not only during the winter but whenever these drains 
collect water, they deposit to the bilge.


Not just a winter concern.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.


-- Original message--

*From: *Robert Boyer via CnC-List

*Date: *Mon, Mar 23, 2015 11:34

*To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com ;

*Subject:*Re: Stus-List Bilge pump

The C&C Landfall 38 came from the factory with two mid-ship deck 
drains that drained into the bilge--the other two (aft) deck drains 
drained overboard.  During the winter, these two midship deck drains 
can accumulate a lot of water in the bilge.  So, not all C&C's can 
simply use manually operated bilge pumps (unless you are living aboard 
and pay close attention to the bilge level).  Also, any antifreeze 
mixture in the bilge will get diluted quite quickly.


Bob

On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, robert via CnC-List wrote:


Dwight:

I don't remove the bilge pump and switch during winter 
storage...what's the point when you winterize it/flush/fill it, and 
the line, with antifreeze and then "above the floor boards" 
"leave the bottom end of the pump submerged in the same mix"?   
Mine is submerged in the antifreeze in the bilge without removing it.


Actually, that is not true..my bilge is mostly drythere is 
the occasional backflow of antifreeze from the line but that I 
sometimes soak up with a paper towel.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2015-03-23 9 :26 AM, dwight veinot via 
CnC-List wrote:
One additional thing that I do; remove my bilge pump and switch to 
above the floor boards during winter storage and flush the pump with 
a 50/50 mix of ethylene gycol and water and leave the bottom end of 
the pump submerged in the same mix...I think that helps to keep the 
pump in good shape for next season


Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, */Alianna/*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net 


On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



Thoughts on bilge pumps.

First, I'm rewiring a boat that has one of those auto switch
pumps.  Every 5 minutes or so it whirs and stops.  Drives me
nuts.  Can't imagine sleeping on a boat with one of those installed.

How I wire a bilge pump.  First, install a Rule 43 3 way bilge
switch in a convenient and protected location.  Power it from
one of the battery connections on the back side of your main
battery switch.  I usually connect it to the house bank.  If you
can find it, Ancor make some nice 14/3 AWG bilge pump cable. 
Run that or two positives and a single negative to the bilge.


Use a round Rule pump of your choice and strap an Ultra Safety
Systems Mini Bilge Pump switch to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Safety-Systems-Switch-UPS-06-12/dp/B00CGJS4PQ

You will have a very nice and very reliable bilge pump system.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

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Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com 

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as 
simply messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame




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Re: Stus-List deck drains (was: Bilge pump)

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

you wrote:

On Pegasus, my deck drains go to a thru-hull under the galley sink. This year I 
am going to reroute them to thru-hulls just below the toe rails.


That's what I did and it did not work out well.  (My last email had a 
comment about my big idea being totally sub-optimal.)  I ran them a bit 
aft, where I had access, but the hoses have a loop that catches dirt and 
dead fish and used condoms.  (Okay, that last inappropriate comment was 
a bit of a stretch.)


If I were to do that job again under the constraints I was working with, 
I should have added a *flush* through hull about six inches or so below 
the drain, so it would have a vertical drop and overboard yet still be 
able to handle the bend radius of quality hose.  I say *flush*, because 
that's right amidships, and if you bump a piling or another boat (or if 
another boat bumps *you*) you really don't want a protrusion on the hull 
right there.   I thought about it at the time, but was really busy with 
work, so just did what I had to do.  The objective was to get the boat 
ready to go cruising, not to have the perfect boat, and over the years I 
don't regret focusing on the objective.  It's not structural, it'll 
never sink the boat, and so I can live with it. I just take a hose and 
stick it full blast on the drain and watch the nasty stuff get pushed 
out, then take the hose and back flush it, and watch more nasty stuff 
pop up backwards, and smile and get on with life.


Heck, if I wanted everything to be just exactly perfect I'd still be 
working.  And if I had a dollar for every time I said "It's not perfect, 
but it's structurally sound and doesn't create a danger" I'd be retired 
and living in Mexico...


Big big grins,
Wal
s/v Stella Blue currently in Banderas Bay again and again and again

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Stus-List Bilge Pump now Bilge Pump Switch

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Just  to be clear.

The Water Witch switch
https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products/BilgeSwitches.html
 is 100% solid state with no floats or any moving parts.  It doesn't cycle
needlessly either,  It just has one or 2 "sensor" plates  (depending on the
model) that probably measures + voltage to ground difference /
conductivity.

Long story short: It knows when the bilge water level is above the
threshold, even with some oil (Transmission leak, another story) and other
crud it has never miss-fired or failed.

So far, fool proof and used by both Canadian and US coast guards if that
means anything..

Regards

Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take five"
Cumming, GA___

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Re: Stus-List Underwear (was deck drains, was bilge pumps)

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

One of my funniest moments in the last year was when I walked back into 
a marina office and said "Oh, I forgot what I was here for. Heck, I 
would forget my own name if it wasn't written on my underwear."


I heard later that two of the girls started giggling and said "he 
doesn't wear underwear."


Okay, I need to fix dinner.

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Re: Stus-List Bilge Pump now Bilge Pump Switch

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

+1 on the water witch. I used one on my boatsense high water alarm. No
moving parts. Had it for 6 years, never failed.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 9:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Bilge Pump now Bilge Pump Switch

 

Just  to be clear.  

The Water Witch switch

https://www.waterwitchinc.com/new/SiteElements/Pages/SecondaryPages/Products
/BilgeSwitches.html is 100% solid state with no floats or any moving parts.
It doesn't cycle needlessly either,  It just has one or 2 "sensor" plates
(depending on the model) that probably measures + voltage to ground
difference / conductivity. 

Long story short: It knows when the bilge water level is above the
threshold, even with some oil (Transmission leak, another story) and other
crud it has never miss-fired or failed. 

So far, fool proof and used by both Canadian and US coast guards if that
means anything.. 

Regards

Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take five"
Cumming, GA 

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Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single fleet

[robert via CnC-List]

Rick said "*If I have a fleet of 8 to 10 C&C sailboats competing in a 
single event over the same course at the same time, but in different 
(spin & Jam) classes, what is an equitable way to determine which boat 
is the best performer?"


Here in Nova Scotia, if we wish to race, we must register with the Nova 
Scotia Yachting Associationit provides a PHRF rating based on a 
declaration, e.g sails, fixed and/or folding propellers, etc.  For 
example, (from my memory which might be fuzzy on this) the NSYA rates 
our C&C 32 at a base PHRF of 165 with a 150% Genoabut with no spin 
(+18) and a two blade fixed prop (+6) our PHRF to race is 189.  Here is 
the website if you are interested:

*
**http://www.sailnovascotia.ca/racing/phrf-racing/phrf-ns.html

*Don't overlook good in the pursuit of perfectionbecause what you 
are trying to achieve, there is 'no perfection'.   And think about 
giving every competitor a bottle of an adult beveragethat will 
distract them from where they placed!


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



*
.
On 2015-03-22 6:00 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:


I’m well aware of the problems of running Spin and Jam boats in the 
same fleets, and the frustrations of PHRF racing in fleets that have a 
wide range of boat types ranging from sport boats like the Viper to 
boats like the San Juan 21. Time on Time is a boon to fairness in a 
fleet race, but I can’t think of a way that you could set up fair 
starts for a pursuit race using time on time.


Since the discussion is turning to these things, perhaps I should 
clarify the reason for my question, and rephrase it.


Pirates on the Pungo is an annual charity regatta, held in Belhaven, 
NC in mid-May. (This year it will be May 15-17) Most keelboats compete 
in a longish pursuit race on Saturday, with awards given out on 
Saturday night at the dinner dance, and a second (optional) race on 
Sunday morning. One designs and dinghies compete in windward-leeward 
races on both days. The pursuit course is typically the one I 
described – about 10 NM with N,S, E, and W legs, starting and ending 
inside the breakwater in the harbor. The keelboats compete for three 
deep prizes in three classes: Spinnaker, PHRF Non-Spinnaker, and 
Cruising. Cruising boats are white sails and not generally raced. 
Usually there are about 30 keelboats, with Cruising being the largest 
class.


I plan to conduct a “C&C Rendezvous” within the Pirates on the Pungo 
regatta. I know of about 10 C&Cs within a day’s travel of Belhaven, 
which allows travel on Friday to arrive for the Skipper’s Reception, 
compete on Saturday, and sail home on Sunday. (There are actually 5 
C&Cs at the River Rat Yacht Club just 5 miles away) And another 10 or 
so are within 2 day’s travel. Using the event as a venue makes 
everything really simple. Someone else provides the RC, committee 
boats, marks, photographer, the Friday evening cocktail party, 
Saturday breakfast, Saturday steak and seafood buffet, Sunday brunch, 
the band for the dance, and beer and soda for the weekend. There is 
free dockage available in Belhaven. And since the regatta is part of 
the Belhaven Pirate Fest this year there is even street music and 
shore side activities on Saturday for family and kids who don’t want 
to race.


All I need to do is arrange a race within a race for the C&C owners to 
stimulate competition and camaraderie, provide a prize (and I think 
one of Andrew Burton’s half hulls of the winner’s own boat is a really 
nice prize), figure out how to determine the winner, and get the word 
out to C&C owners.


Figuring out how to determine who gets the prize is the reason for 
asking the original question. Participants will be competing for the 
overall prizes in one of three classes, in a pursuit race based on 
PHRF ratings. I’ve been involved in regattas where the overall winner 
got a prize for being first in the “most competitive” class, but never 
thought the methods for determining “most competitive” were very 
equitable. The other alternative I could think of was to determine an 
adjustment to the PHRF ratings of the JAM boats, and then score the 
C&Cs based on their actual time on the course just like you would a 
Time on Distance race.


So let me rephrase my question: *If I have a fleet of 8 to 10 C&C 
sailboats competing in a single event over the same course at the same 
time, but in different (spin & Jam) classes, what is an equitable way 
to determine which boat is the best performer?*


All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Chuck S via CnC-List

*Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2015 1:58 PM
*To:* Michael Brown; CNC boat owners, cnc-list
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single 
fleet


Very good summary of things I saw too when racing against different 
style boats in the same fleet.


Instead of the fleet placings, we found we could m