Re: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s

[henry evans]

Hi Jim,
The C&C 38 was a big, powerful and fast boat for its day.  It was very well 
received and became widely raced on the Great Lakes and East Coast.  A 
reasonable number found their to the West Coast, as well.
 
When the two production lines at NOTL finally shut down, over 400 had been 
built which I believe makes it the most numerous production built 38 in 
history. Aside from the 30 and 5 marks of 27's, it was the most successful 
model ever for C&C.  The Landfall 38 was built on the same hull with modified 
stern.  If actions speak louder than words, George Cuthbertson chose a Landfall 
38 for his retirement boat .  
 
Regards,
Hank Evans  



On Monday, December 30, 2013 9:49 PM, "lynchja...@comcast.net" 
 wrote:
  
Hello gang,
I’m just about to close the deal on a 1977 C&C 38 Mark II. The boat is updated 
and loaded for cruising. I love its lines and the way it sails—at least on my 
sea trial. And I’ve had a crush on 1970s C&Cs since I was a teenager.  It 
surveyed well but I’m still wishing I could hear from more people familiar with 
racing and cruising these old 38s.
I enjoy racing but my primary intention with this boat is to cruise it in Puget 
Sound and in and around Vancouver Island. For my tastes, It seems like a nice 
roomy fast cruiser. From listening to a few racers, one potential concern is it 
might broach too easily with the chute up in a breeze. While I don’t intend to 
fly one often, I’d obviously hope it’s not too unstable downwind. I know some 
IOR designs are notorious but I’m not always clear whether to blame the design 
or the skipper.
I saw where a 38 of this vintage, GADZOOKS, was first overall in a race from 
Massachusetts to Bermuda in 2011. And I’ve seen where another old 38 
circumnavigated. Both of which should give me faith. But I’d still love to hear 
from any of you who can give me a scouting report on how this boat sails on 
different points of sail in different conditions as well as any other insights 
you're willing to offer.
Thanks in advance, and happy new year to you all.
Jim Lynch
Olympia, WA.
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Re: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s

[Rich Knowles]

The Landfall 38 has the same hull as the 38, but with a modified stern and a 
shorter draft and mast. I have had mine for 16 years and can say that the boat 
has no bad habits. It's one of the stiffest boats made by C&C and an excellent 
sailor. I know several 38's similar to the one you are considering, and the 
owners are all happy campers. I say go for it. 

Rich Knowles
INDIGO
1981 LF38
Halifax, NS 


> On Dec 30, 2013, at 22:49, lynchja...@comcast.net wrote:
> 
> Hello gang,
> 
> I’m just about to close the deal on a 1977 C&C 38 Mark II. The boat is 
> updated and loaded for cruising. I love its lines and the way it sails—at 
> least on my sea trial. And I’ve had a crush on 1970s C&Cs since I was a 
> teenager.  It surveyed well but I’m still wishing I could hear from more 
> people familiar with racing and cruising these old 38s.
> 
> I enjoy racing but my primary intention with this boat is to cruise it in 
> Puget Sound and in and around Vancouver Island. For my tastes, It seems like 
> a nice roomy fast cruiser. From listening to a few racers, one potential 
> concern is it might broach too easily with the chute up in a breeze. While I 
> don’t intend to fly one often, I’d obviously hope it’s not too unstable 
> downwind. I know some IOR designs are notorious but I’m not always clear 
> whether to blame the design or the skipper.
> 
> I saw where a 38 of this vintage, GADZOOKS, was first overall in a race from 
> Massachusetts to Bermuda in 2011. And I’ve seen where another old 38 
> circumnavigated. Both of which should give me faith. But I’d still love to 
> hear from any of you who can give me a scouting report on how this boat sails 
> on different points of sail in different conditions as well as any other 
> insights you're willing to offer.
> 
> Thanks in advance, and happy new year to you all.
> 
> Jim Lynch
> 
> Olympia, WA.
> 
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion

[Jim Watts]

Let me see...original engine, hours unknown...owner-modified with two extra
hatches in coachroof...stove replaced with a very large garbage can...and
an asking price less than half of the next cheapest V40 out there.

What could possibly go wrong?


On 30 December 2013 21:44, Steve Thomas  wrote:

>
>  It is a Valiant 40 that is giving me the old come hither look.
>
>
> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/Uniflite-Valiant-2645427/Newport/RI/United-States#.UsHZXvtuBzP
>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jack
> Brennan
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:11 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion
>
>
> Hi Steve:
>
> I think polyester resin works just fine above the water line. You want
> epoxy
> below the waterline for its extra strength and better resistance to water
> intrusion, but polyester would do the job for fixing the deck. A lot
> cheaper, too, if you're using it by the gallon.
>
> What boat are you looking at?
>
> Jack Brennan
> Former C&C 25
> Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
> Tierra Verde, Fl.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve Thomas
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 8:45 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion
>
>
>   All this talk about gelcoat matching has got me thinking about everyone's
> seemingly universal preference for using epoxy (West
> system in particular) for doing repairs. I am contemplating the purchase of
> a boat that I know has a couple of soft deck issues,
> and it seems to me that since this is an all too frequent repair, how does
> one get the gelcoat to stick? I don't want to use
> paint. Gelcoat manufacturers say don't do it. West says get rid of any
> amine
> blush, do everything by the book with the epoxy, and
> it should be ok. Anyone had problems with this, or is it just a bit of over
> caution on the part of gelcoat manufacturers as West
> claims?
>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>



-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40

[Russ & Melody]

Oh!

I was going to say, "That one won't last long."

(Maybe we're both right :)

Cheers, Russ


At 07:25 AM 31/12/2013, you wrote:
Let me see...original engine, hours unknown...owner-modified with 
two extra hatches in coachroof...stove replaced with a very large 
garbage can...and an asking price less than half of the next 
cheapest V40 out there.


What could possibly go wrong?


On 30 December 2013 21:44, Steve Thomas 
<sthom...@sympatico.ca> wrote:


 It is a Valiant 40 that is giving me the old come hither look.


http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/Uniflite-Valiant-2645427/Newport/RI/United-States#.UsHZXvtuBzP

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
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Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40

[Steve Thomas]

Yeah I noticed the things Jim mentioned, and more, but I liked motion of the 
Valiant 40 on passages better than the C&C designed
Baltic 39. The V40 has many features that make it a desirable cruiser. Nuff 
said on that. This particular boat was listed for
several months at US$ 65.9k and was reduced in price only in the last week. I 
am definitely not one of the 1%, so for me it is
worth a close look. It would at least be a lot of work but the mandatory boat 
bucks would depend mostly on underlying condition as
far as I can see. The owner is away doing a delivery but I did talk to the 
broker. There is a soft deck spot that needs attention
along the port genoa track according to him. That plus a stove and new 
instruments would be the starting point from what I know so
far, but you really can't judge a boat until you take a close look as far as 
I'm concerned. I would rather not have to overhaul
the engine, but parts for Universals are less expensive for parts than some. A 
friend of mine just completed a complete DIY
rebuild in Jacksonville, and it cost him US$ 7k for parts. There are deals to 
be had if you are handy. A friend of mine bought a
Whitby 42 for US$ 22.5k last summer. His C&C 38 which has twice taken him and 
his wife from Lake Erie to the Bahamas, is up for
sale. Might actually be a better deal at C$ 39k, but Valiants do fetch a higher 
price than C&Cs for boats of similar size and
condition.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Russ & Melody
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:51 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40



Oh!

I was going to say, "That one won't last long."

(Maybe we're both right :)

Cheers, Russ


At 07:25 AM 31/12/2013, you wrote:

  Let me see...original engine, hours unknown...owner-modified with two extra 
hatches in coachroof...stove replaced with a very
large garbage can...and an asking price less than half of the next cheapest V40 
out there.

  What could possibly go wrong?


  On 30 December 2013 21:44, Steve Thomas  wrote:



 It is a Valiant 40 that is giving me the old come hither look.


  
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/Uniflite-Valiant-2645427/Newport/RI/United-States#.UsHZXvtuBzP


Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII
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Stus-List Happy new Year Everyone!

[Della Barba, Joe]

Hope everyone has a great 2014!
Here in Maryland we are being tortured by the usual nice sailing days stuck in 
between rain and really cold days when you are glad to be anti-freezed.
Hey - if anyone has sent an email to me here at work directly our "Spam-Cop" 
has been busy eating all kinds of incoming email. I couldn't send email from 
home to work for a while.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
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Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40

[coltrek]

Steve, I just got back from Costco and am just playing with a moisture meter I 
bought there bundled with a laser temperature sensor for 35 dollars! I haven't 
compared it to my Skipper moisture meter yet, but I am pretty impressed with it 
so far -  more  display resolution. For 18 bucks it would buy you a lot of info.


Bill
C & 39

 Original message From: Steve Thomas 
 Date:12/31/2013  1:15 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 
(1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40 
Yeah I noticed the things Jim mentioned, and more, but I liked motion of 
the Valiant 40 on passages better than the C&C designed Baltic 39. The V40 has 
many features that make it a desirable cruiser. Nuff said on that. This 
particular boat was listed for several months at US$ 65.9k and was reduced in 
price only in the last week. I am definitely not one of the 1%, so for me it is 
worth a close look. It would at least be a lot of work but the mandatory boat 
bucks would depend mostly on underlying condition as far as I can see. The 
owner is away doing a delivery but I did talk to the broker. There is a soft 
deck spot that needs attention along the port genoa track according to him. 
That plus a stove and new instruments would be the starting point from what I 
know so far, but you really can't judge a boat until you take a close look as 
far as I'm concerned. I would rather not have to overhaul the engine, but parts 
for Universals are less expensive for parts than some. A friend of mine just 
completed a complete DIY rebuild in Jacksonville, and it cost him US$ 7k for 
parts. There are deals to be had if you are handy. A friend of mine bought a 
Whitby 42 for US$ 22.5k last summer. His C&C 38 which has twice taken him and 
his wife from Lake Erie to the Bahamas, is up for sale. Might actually be a 
better deal at C$ 39k, but Valiants do fetch a higher price than C&Cs for boats 
of similar size and condition.
 
Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Russ & Melody
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:51 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40


Oh!

I was going to say, "That one won't last long."  

(Maybe we're both right :)

Cheers, Russ


At 07:25 AM 31/12/2013, you wrote:
Let me see...original engine, hours unknown...owner-modified with two extra 
hatches in coachroof...stove replaced with a very large garbage can...and an 
asking price less than half of the next cheapest V40 out there.

What could possibly go wrong?


On 30 December 2013 21:44, Steve Thomas  wrote:

 It is a Valiant 40 that is giving me the old come hither  look.

  
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/Uniflite-Valiant-2645427/Newport/RI/United-States#.UsHZXvtuBzP
 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
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Re: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s

[Martin DeYoung]

Jim,

Based on my experience with racing and cruising C&C designs offshore and in the 
PNW, below is my “tail happy” rating of boats I have owned or sailed 
extensively (listed most stable to most tail happy):

1970 C&C 43 (modified deep rudder); 1974 C&C 39 with deep rudder upgrade; 1974 
C&C 39 with original rudder; 1980 C&C 36.

The most tail happy 1980 36 is still my wife’s favorite for PNW cruising.  She 
prefers the 36 over the 43 to the extent that she has recently stated “I wish 
we had the 36 back, can you find one and trade?”  Her preference is based on 
ease of handling around fixed objects and when anchoring.  The 43’s powerful 
sail plan and extra 10,000 lbs of displacement are also a concern.

For PNW cruising including around Vancouver Island the 1977 38 should be 
excellent.  I would downplay the concern about the IOR style handling issues 
when powered up unless you plan to aggressively race.  We have raced Calypso in 
the local (PNW) Cruiser/Racer events mostly double-handed or with 4 to 6 crew.  
Calypso does very well in a blow but suffers from poor light air performance 
made worse by the cruising gear we added back when the plan was to head for 
Mexico.

In short, I would not hesitate to sail a 77 C&C 38 anywhere in the PNW, and be 
comfortable in sailing it to Mexico or Hawaii.  We keep Calypso at Shilshole 
Bay Marinia.  If you are in the Seattle area Saturday I will be on board 
setting up for this winter’s projects.  Drop me a line if you want to meet and 
discuss old school C&C sailing.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
lynchja...@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:50 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s


Hello gang,

I’m just about to close the deal on a 1977 C&C 38 Mark II. The boat is updated 
and loaded for cruising. I love its lines and the way it sails—at least on my 
sea trial. And I’ve had a crush on 1970s C&Cs since I was a teenager.  It 
surveyed well but I’m still wishing I could hear from more people familiar with 
racing and cruising these old 38s.

I enjoy racing but my primary intention with this boat is to cruise it in Puget 
Sound and in and around Vancouver Island. For my tastes, It seems like a nice 
roomy fast cruiser. From listening to a few racers, one potential concern is it 
might broach too easily with the chute up in a breeze. While I don’t intend to 
fly one often, I’d obviously hope it’s not too unstable downwind. I know some 
IOR designs are notorious but I’m not always clear whether to blame the design 
or the skipper.

I saw where a 38 of this vintage, GADZOOKS, was first overall in a race from 
Massachusetts to Bermuda in 2011. And I’ve seen where another old 38 
circumnavigated. Both of which should give me faith. But I’d still love to hear 
from any of you who can give me a scouting report on how this boat sails on 
different points of sail in different conditions as well as any other insights 
you're willing to offer.

Thanks in advance, and happy new year to you all.

Jim Lynch

Olympia, WA.
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Stus-List So New England retirement/harbor perspectives

[Bob McLaughlin]

I’m interested in locals’ opinions of good towns to retire to and good harbor 
suggestions to move my C&C to in the So New England area.
We sailed our C&C 33-II for the past 22 years and last year moved up to a C&C 
110 (6.5’ draft) with the intent of moving from the Midwest “back” in the next 
~2-3 years to the southern New England area to retire and do more sailing.  (I 
say “back” since I grew up sailing in NJ with many summers out to Nantucket.  
My parents lived in Newport for awhile too, so the area from ~Block I to 
Nantucket became the center of my interest and we’ve chartered there many times 
in the years since moving to St Louis.)
Any thoughts of CT, RI or MA preferences?  This may be mostly an issue of tax 
differences but are there some other state-wide issues someone might suggest 
for consideration?  
Our thinking regarding towns from afar is either the Narragansett Bay area or 
the northeastern shore of Buzzard’s Bay.  It would be ideal to spend less than 
$500k for a 3-4 BR house or condo near the water/boat.  Reasonable access to a 
major airport would be a plus too but not under the approach/departure flight 
path (an issue for the Providence airport/Greenwich area?), as well as nice 
shore activities such as theater etc. 
The early short-list to explore is below, though I’m curious what gem we’re 
overlooking or perhaps areas to eliminate.   At one point moorings in some 
harbors had long wait lists.  Is that still the case?  What about the moorings 
themselves, are some harbors know for good facilities/better holding ground?  
Are helical screw mooring fields the way to go?  I thought I read some towns 
were installing them. (Our family lost one boat to a hurricane when she dragged 
her mushroom anchor up onto a sea wall). 
In RI:
Bristol or the East Greenwich/Warwick area, though I wonder if it’s a bit far 
up the bay to get out to the islands quickly (though I like the idea of some 
protected sailing for the more blustery days).   Bristol appears open to storms 
but I like the town and harbor area.
Newport would be great but I fear I’d grow weary of the summer crowds.   
Jamestown seems too open.  
Anyone know about Melville?  Wickford?
In MA:
Marion or Padanaram seem possibly idea, and I love insight to these.  What 
about Mattapoisett?  Is my thinking that getting onto the Cape is asking for 
traffic and crowd headaches correct?
In CT:
Stonington (though getting a bit east, our daughter lives in Newton MA- but 
right on I-95 maybe no further away by car than say, Marion...)
I’d welcome any thoughts and opinions from the List.
Bob McLaughlin
Blue Devil
C&C 110___
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Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40

[Rick Brass]

US$7k for parts would be a LOT for a 40hp Universal. 

 

In 2010 I bought a Universal M35B bobtail (complete engine without
transmission), 36hp 4 cylinder engine an exhaust riser, and a few other
miscellaneous parts from the Universal/Westerbeke distributor in Norfolk for
$6300 including taxes and freight. Since I was replacing an older M35, I
already had a transmission. 

 

The bobtail engine plus $750 labor for installation was actually less than
the other options I considered, which were parts for a rebuild (about
$35-3700) plus machine shop and labor time) or a new long block ($44-4500
plus labor to switch out stuff from the old engine and install the new one).

 

And after 2 years, when I found a cracked flange for one of the rear engine
mounts, Westerbeke sent me a new bell housing plus paid $800 of the repair
labor.

 

I wouldn't think 5 or 6 thousand hours on the Universal engine would be
anything to worry about if there is evidence of proper maintenance having
been done, and the equipment on the boat (like wind steering) makes me
suspect the PO was a cruiser and likely to have been knowledgable. If you do
come to engine work, be sure to consider all of your options.

 

Rick Brass

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:15 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40

 

Yeah I noticed the things Jim mentioned, and more, but I liked motion of the
Valiant 40 on passages better than the C&C designed Baltic 39. The V40 has
many features that make it a desirable cruiser. Nuff said on that. This
particular boat was listed for several months at US$ 65.9k and was reduced
in price only in the last week. I am definitely not one of the 1%, so for me
it is worth a close look. It would at least be a lot of work but the
mandatory boat bucks would depend mostly on underlying condition as far as I
can see. The owner is away doing a delivery but I did talk to the broker.
There is a soft deck spot that needs attention along the port genoa track
according to him. That plus a stove and new instruments would be the
starting point from what I know so far, but you really can't judge a boat
until you take a close look as far as I'm concerned. I would rather not have
to overhaul the engine, but parts for Universals are less expensive for
parts than some. A friend of mine just completed a complete DIY rebuild in
Jacksonville, and it cost him US$ 7k for parts. There are deals to be had if
you are handy. A friend of mine bought a Whitby 42 for US$ 22.5k last
summer. His C&C 38 which has twice taken him and his wife from Lake Erie to
the Bahamas, is up for sale. Might actually be a better deal at C$ 39k, but
Valiants do fetch a higher price than C&Cs for boats of similar size and
condition. 

 

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII

 

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Russ &
Melody
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:51 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40


Oh!

I was going to say, "That one won't last long."  

(Maybe we're both right :)

Cheers, Russ


At 07:25 AM 31/12/2013, you wrote:



Let me see...original engine, hours unknown...owner-modified with two extra
hatches in coachroof...stove replaced with a very large garbage can...and an
asking price less than half of the next cheapest V40 out there.

What could possibly go wrong?


On 30 December 2013 21:44, Steve Thomas  wrote:

 It is a Valiant 40 that is giving me the old come hither look.

 
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/Uniflite-Valiant-2645427/Newport/RI/Uni
ted-States#.UsHZXvtuBzP 

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII

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Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40

[Dennis C.]

I rebuilt a Universal M30 few years back.  Bought a lot of the parts from the 
local Kubota tractor dealer.  Just need to know the serial number and exact 
model to make sure you get the right parts.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


>
> From: Rick Brass 
>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 5:54 PM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40
> 
>
>
>US$7k for parts would be a LOT for a 40hp Universal. 
> 
>In 2010 I bought a Universal M35B bobtail (complete engine without 
>transmission), 36hp 4 cylinder engine an exhaust riser, and a few other 
>miscellaneous parts from the Universal/Westerbeke distributor in Norfolk for 
>$6300 including taxes and freight. Since I was replacing an older M35, I 
>already had a transmission. 
> 
>The bobtail engine plus $750 labor for installation was actually less than the 
>other options I considered, which were parts for a rebuild (about $35-3700) 
>plus machine shop and labor time) or a new long block ($44-4500 plus labor to 
>switch out stuff from the old engine and install the new one).
> 
>And after 2 years, when I found a cracked flange for one of the rear engine 
>mounts, Westerbeke sent me a new bell housing plus paid $800 of the repair 
>labor.
> 
>I wouldn’t think 5 or 6 thousand hours on the Universal engine would be 
>anything to worry about if there is evidence of proper maintenance having been 
>done, and the equipment on the boat (like wind steering) makes me suspect the 
>PO was a cruiser and likely to have been knowledgable. If you do come to 
>engine work, be sure to consider all of your options.
> 
>Rick Brass
> 
>From:CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas
>Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:15 PM
>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40
> 
>Yeah I noticed the things Jim mentioned, and more, but I liked motion of the 
>Valiant 40 on passages better than the C&C designed Baltic 39. The V40 has 
>many features that make it a desirable cruiser. Nuff said on that. This 
>particular boat was listed for several months at US$ 65.9k and was reduced in 
>price only in the last week. I am definitely not one of the 1%, so for me it 
>is worth a close look. It would at least be a lot of work but the mandatory 
>boat bucks would depend mostly on underlying condition as far as I can see. 
>The owner is away doing a delivery but I did talk to the broker. There is a 
>soft deck spot that needs attention along the port genoa track according to 
>him. That plus a stove and new instruments would be the starting point from 
>what I know so far, but you really can't judge a boat until you take a close 
>look as far as I'm concerned. I would rather not have to overhaul the engine, 
>but parts for Universals are less
 expensive for parts than some. A friend of mine just completed a complete DIY 
rebuild in Jacksonville, and it cost him US$ 7k for parts. There are deals to 
be had if you are handy. A friend of mine bought a Whitby 42 for US$ 22.5k last 
summer. His C&C 38 which has twice taken him and his wife from Lake Erie to the 
Bahamas, is up for sale. Might actually be a better deal at C$ 39k, but 
Valiants do fetch a higher price than C&Cs for boats of similar size and 
condition. 
> 
>Steve Thomas
>C&C27 MKIII
> 
>-Original Message-
>From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Russ & Melody
>Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:51 AM
>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40
>
>Oh!
>
>I was going to say, "That one won't last long."  
>
>(Maybe we're both right :)
>
>Cheers, Russ
>
>
>At 07:25 AM 31/12/2013, you wrote:
>
>
>Let me see...original engine, hours unknown...owner-modified with two extra 
>hatches in coachroof...stove replaced with a very large garbage can...and an 
>asking price less than half of the next cheapest V40 out there.
>
>What could possibly go wrong?
>
>
>On 30 December 2013 21:44, Steve Thomas  wrote:
> It is a Valiant 40 that is giving me the old come hither look.
>  
>http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/Uniflite-Valiant-2645427/Newport/RI/United-States#.UsHZXvtuBzP
> 
>Steve Thomas
>C&C27 MKIII
>
>___
>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List So New England retirement/harbor perspectives

[Harry Hallgring]

I grew up in Newport...moved to Little Compton (lowest property taxes in RI) 10 
years ago...still moor in Brenton Cove (Newport).  I will most likely move back 
when my girls go to college. I work in Melville...only a few marinas in 
Portsmouth. It takes me 90 minutes to get from Newport Harbor to New England 
Boatworks in Melville.  From Newport Harbor...23 miles to Block Island...45 to 
the Vineyard...another 20 to Nantucket. Draft is not an issue anywhere nearby 
Newport...gets a little thin over in East Greenwich/Warwick areas farther north 
in the bay. Check Realtor.com for housing ideas. 

Harry
MIRAGE
northeast 39

Sent from my old iPhone

> On Dec 31, 2013, at 18:09, Bob McLaughlin  wrote:
> 
> I’m interested in locals’ opinions of good towns to retire to and good harbor 
> suggestions to move my C&C to in the So New England area.
>  
> We sailed our C&C 33-II for the past 22 years and last year moved up to a C&C 
> 110 (6.5’ draft) with the intent of moving from the Midwest “back” in the 
> next ~2-3 years to the southern New England area to retire and do more 
> sailing.  (I say “back” since I grew up sailing in NJ with many summers out 
> to Nantucket.  My parents lived in Newport for awhile too, so the area from 
> ~Block I to Nantucket became the center of my interest and we’ve chartered 
> there many times in the years since moving to St Louis.)
>  
> Any thoughts of CT, RI or MA preferences?  This may be mostly an issue of tax 
> differences but are there some other state-wide issues someone might suggest 
> for consideration? 
>  
> Our thinking regarding towns from afar is either the Narragansett Bay area or 
> the northeastern shore of Buzzard’s Bay.  It would be ideal to spend less 
> than $500k for a 3-4 BR house or condo near the water/boat.  Reasonable 
> access to a major airport would be a plus too but not under the 
> approach/departure flight path (an issue for the Providence airport/Greenwich 
> area?), as well as nice shore activities such as theater etc.
>  
> The early short-list to explore is below, though I’m curious what gem we’re 
> overlooking or perhaps areas to eliminate.   At one point moorings in some 
> harbors had long wait lists.  Is that still the case?  What about the 
> moorings themselves, are some harbors know for good facilities/better holding 
> ground?  Are helical screw mooring fields the way to go?  I thought I read 
> some towns were installing them. (Our family lost one boat to a hurricane 
> when she dragged her mushroom anchor up onto a sea wall).
>  
> In RI:
> Bristol or the East Greenwich/Warwick area, though I wonder if it’s a bit far 
> up the bay to get out to the islands quickly (though I like the idea of some 
> protected sailing for the more blustery days).   Bristol appears open to 
> storms but I like the town and harbor area.
>  
> Newport would be great but I fear I’d grow weary of the summer crowds.   
> Jamestown seems too open. 
>  
> Anyone know about Melville?  Wickford?
>  
> In MA:
> Marion or Padanaram seem possibly idea, and I love insight to these.  What 
> about Mattapoisett?  Is my thinking that getting onto the Cape is asking for 
> traffic and crowd headaches correct?
>  
> In CT:
> Stonington (though getting a bit east, our daughter lives in Newton MA- but 
> right on I-95 maybe no further away by car than say, Marion...)
>  
> I’d welcome any thoughts and opinions from the List.
>  
> Bob McLaughlin
> Blue Devil
> C&C 110
>  
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s

[Dave Godwin]

Jim,

I’m going to jump in and echo what others are saying: don’t get overly 
concerned about the downwind characteristics of the older IOR influenced hulls 
like C&C 38.

If you are planning on pressing on as much canvass as possible while going 
downwind then you may have your hands full. But that’s racing. Ease off a bit. 
I’ve raced on IOR One-tons and there is a vast difference between that “IOR” 
and the “IOR shape" of the earlier C&C’s. For that matter I would suggest that 
one of loveliest but biggest handfuls of a boat downwind was the Ted Hood 
designed Gulfstar Custom 40. I loved that boat and almost bought one but, Lord, 
downwind with the ‘chute up there wasn’t a wheel big enough with enough 
purchase to keep it under control. “Broaches R Us.” The C&C 38 is not even in 
that category or the old racing IOR boats for that matter.

Personally, I think that our C&C 37 is the follow-on to the C&C 38 (yes, I know 
 smaller but the specs put it at 37’ 9”...). A bit less radical in hull design 
and a bit better fins and rudder shape but essentially the same animal. We love 
our 37 although we are starting to think about moving up to a J/42 for other 
reasons. To echo what Martin’s wife says about the 36, my wife loves the 37 
because it is the perfect blend of speed, comfort, sea-keeping, dryness and 
most importantly the ability to handle the loads and be able to manage around 
the docks by the two of us.

The only bad thing I can say about the 38 is that the cockpit is bit pinched. 
So is ours. Eh...

If you spring for it you won’t be unhappy. Really good looking and nice boat. 
What Martins says, it will do distance sailing comfortably.

Cheers,
Dave
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Chesapeake Bay


On Dec 31, 2013, at 4:45 PM, Martin DeYoung  wrote:

> Jim,
>  
> Based on my experience with racing and cruising C&C designs offshore and in 
> the PNW, below is my “tail happy” rating of boats I have owned or sailed 
> extensively (listed most stable to most tail happy):
>  
> 1970 C&C 43 (modified deep rudder); 1974 C&C 39 with deep rudder upgrade; 
> 1974 C&C 39 with original rudder; 1980 C&C 36.
>  
> The most tail happy 1980 36 is still my wife’s favorite for PNW cruising.  
> She prefers the 36 over the 43 to the extent that she has recently stated “I 
> wish we had the 36 back, can you find one and trade?”  Her preference is 
> based on ease of handling around fixed objects and when anchoring.  The 43’s 
> powerful sail plan and extra 10,000 lbs of displacement are also a concern.
>  
> For PNW cruising including around Vancouver Island the 1977 38 should be 
> excellent.  I would downplay the concern about the IOR style handling issues 
> when powered up unless you plan to aggressively race.  We have raced Calypso 
> in the local (PNW) Cruiser/Racer events mostly double-handed or with 4 to 6 
> crew.  Calypso does very well in a blow but suffers from poor light air 
> performance made worse by the cruising gear we added back when the plan was 
> to head for Mexico.
>  
> In short, I would not hesitate to sail a 77 C&C 38 anywhere in the PNW, and 
> be comfortable in sailing it to Mexico or Hawaii.  We keep Calypso at 
> Shilshole Bay Marinia.  If you are in the Seattle area Saturday I will be on 
> board setting up for this winter’s projects.  Drop me a line if you want to 
> meet and discuss old school C&C sailing.
>  
> Martin
> Calypso
> 1970 C&C 43
> Seattle
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> lynchja...@comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:50 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s
>  
> Hello gang,
> 
> I’m just about to close the deal on a 1977 C&C 38 Mark II. The boat is 
> updated and loaded for cruising. I love its lines and the way it sails—at 
> least on my sea trial. And I’ve had a crush on 1970s C&Cs since I was a 
> teenager.  It surveyed well but I’m still wishing I could hear from more 
> people familiar with racing and cruising these old 38s.
> 
> I enjoy racing but my primary intention with this boat is to cruise it in 
> Puget Sound and in and around Vancouver Island. For my tastes, It seems like 
> a nice roomy fast cruiser. From listening to a few racers, one potential 
> concern is it might broach too easily with the chute up in a breeze. While I 
> don’t intend to fly one often, I’d obviously hope it’s not too unstable 
> downwind. I know some IOR designs are notorious but I’m not always clear 
> whether to blame the design or the skipper.
> 
> I saw where a 38 of this vintage, GADZOOKS, was first overall in a race from 
> Massachusetts to Bermuda in 2011. And I’ve seen where another old 38 
> circumnavigated. Both of which should give me faith. But I’d still love to 
> hear from any of you who can give me a scouting report on how this boat sails 
> on different points of sail in different conditions as well as any other 
> insights you're willing to offer.
> 
> Thanks in advance, and happy 

Re: Stus-List old C&C 38s vs. J-42

[Martin DeYoung]

> ... moving up to a J/42 for other reasons. <

Dave,

There are two J/42s in racer cruiser mode moored close to Calypso at Shilshole 
in Seattle.  One of them belongs to a friend and C/R class competitor.  We have 
C/R raced against each other for many years.  The J/42 owes my old 43 about 12 
seconds a mile and is clearly faster in light air.  It takes TWS at 10+ for 
Calypso to gain especially on a reach or beat.

Both J/42s are used extensively by couples in the retirement age/mode for 
cruising around the PNW.  If your plan is the cruise or C/R race short-handed I 
expect the J/42 would be almost as good as a C&C.

Happy New Year,

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:34 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s

Jim,

I'm going to jump in and echo what others are saying: don't get overly 
concerned about the downwind characteristics of the older IOR influenced hulls 
like C&C 38.

If you are planning on pressing on as much canvass as possible while going 
downwind then you may have your hands full. But that's racing. Ease off a bit. 
I've raced on IOR One-tons and there is a vast difference between that "IOR" 
and the "IOR shape" of the earlier C&C's. For that matter I would suggest that 
one of loveliest but biggest handfuls of a boat downwind was the Ted Hood 
designed Gulfstar Custom 40. I loved that boat and almost bought one but, Lord, 
downwind with the 'chute up there wasn't a wheel big enough with enough 
purchase to keep it under control. "Broaches R Us." The C&C 38 is not even in 
that category or the old racing IOR boats for that matter.

Personally, I think that our C&C 37 is the follow-on to the C&C 38 (yes, I know 
 smaller but the specs put it at 37' 9"...). A bit less radical in hull design 
and a bit better fins and rudder shape but essentially the same animal. We love 
our 37 although we are starting to think about moving up to a J/42 for other 
reasons. To echo what Martin's wife says about the 36, my wife loves the 37 
because it is the perfect blend of speed, comfort, sea-keeping, dryness and 
most importantly the ability to handle the loads and be able to manage around 
the docks by the two of us.

The only bad thing I can say about the 38 is that the cockpit is bit pinched. 
So is ours. Eh...

If you spring for it you won't be unhappy. Really good looking and nice boat. 
What Martins says, it will do distance sailing comfortably.

Cheers,
Dave
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Chesapeake Bay

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Re: Stus-List old C&C 38s vs. J-42

[Dave Godwin]

>  I expect the J/42 would be almost as good as a C&C. <

Martin,

Yup. I’ve raced on J/30’s, J/24’s, J/41’s, J/105’s, and J/120’s. I had a chance 
years ago to informally go head-to-head upwind against a new J/42 in flat water 
and ~15 knots of breeze. It couldn’t get away from us. I may have pissed the 
owner off. I have always been aware that the J-boat has done a very good job of 
“marketing" and I’ll leave it at that. I don’t want to start any flame wars.

We’re in our early 60’s and I’m moving into cruising mode. The J/42 allows us 
(me) to handle a larger boat easily and comes with two separate cabins at each 
end of the boat which becomes a consideration when guests are involved for a 
week or so in in the Bahamas.

If it were just me and my old race crew were available to crew, I’d buy a C&C 
41.  :-)

Cheers and Happy New Year. Off to a stupid party...
Dave

1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Chesapeake Bay

On Dec 31, 2013, at 7:52 PM, Martin DeYoung  wrote:

> > … moving up to a J/42 for other reasons. <
>  
> Dave,
>  
> There are two J/42s in racer cruiser mode moored close to Calypso at 
> Shilshole in Seattle.  One of them belongs to a friend and C/R class 
> competitor.  We have C/R raced against each other for many years.  The J/42 
> owes my old 43 about 12 seconds a mile and is clearly faster in light air.  
> It takes TWS at 10+ for Calypso to gain especially on a reach or beat.
>  
> Both J/42s are used extensively by couples in the retirement age/mode for 
> cruising around the PNW.  If your plan is the cruise or C/R race short-handed 
> I expect the J/42 would be almost as good as a C&C.
>  
> Happy New Year,
>  
> Martin
> Calypso
> 1970 C&C 43
> Seattle
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:34 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s
>  
> Jim,
>  
> I’m going to jump in and echo what others are saying: don’t get overly 
> concerned about the downwind characteristics of the older IOR influenced 
> hulls like C&C 38.
>  
> If you are planning on pressing on as much canvass as possible while going 
> downwind then you may have your hands full. But that’s racing. Ease off a 
> bit. I’ve raced on IOR One-tons and there is a vast difference between that 
> “IOR” and the “IOR shape" of the earlier C&C’s. For that matter I would 
> suggest that one of loveliest but biggest handfuls of a boat downwind was the 
> Ted Hood designed Gulfstar Custom 40. I loved that boat and almost bought one 
> but, Lord, downwind with the ‘chute up there wasn’t a wheel big enough with 
> enough purchase to keep it under control. “Broaches R Us.” The C&C 38 is not 
> even in that category or the old racing IOR boats for that matter.
>  
> Personally, I think that our C&C 37 is the follow-on to the C&C 38 (yes, I 
> know  smaller but the specs put it at 37’ 9”...). A bit less radical in hull 
> design and a bit better fins and rudder shape but essentially the same 
> animal. We love our 37 although we are starting to think about moving up to a 
> J/42 for other reasons. To echo what Martin’s wife says about the 36, my wife 
> loves the 37 because it is the perfect blend of speed, comfort, sea-keeping, 
> dryness and most importantly the ability to handle the loads and be able to 
> manage around the docks by the two of us.
>  
> The only bad thing I can say about the 38 is that the cockpit is bit pinched. 
> So is ours. Eh...
>  
> If you spring for it you won’t be unhappy. Really good looking and nice boat. 
> What Martins says, it will do distance sailing comfortably.
>  
> Cheers,
> Dave
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Chesapeake Bay
>  
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Happy new Year Everyone!

[Ken Heaton]

...and another Happy New Year! from Cape Breton Island.

Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
S/V Salazar - Can 54955
C&C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia


On 31 December 2013 15:57, Della Barba, Joe  wrote:

> Hope everyone has a great 2014!
>
> Here in Maryland we are being tortured by the usual nice sailing days
> stuck in between rain and really cold days when you are glad to be
> anti-freezed.
>
> Hey – if anyone has sent an email to me here at work directly our
> “Spam-Cop” has been busy eating all kinds of incoming email. I couldn’t
> send email from home to work for a while.
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Coquina*
>
> *C&C 35 MK I*
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
___
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Re: Stus-List Happy new Year Everyone!

[Jim Watts]

And from the Left Coast, or Daft Coast, your choice...Happy New Year!




On 31 December 2013 17:23, Ken Heaton  wrote:

> ...and another Happy New Year! from Cape Breton Island.
>
> Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
> S/V Salazar - Can 54955
> C&C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
> Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia
>
>
> On 31 December 2013 15:57, Della Barba, Joe wrote:
>
>> Hope everyone has a great 2014!
>>
>> Here in Maryland we are being tortured by the usual nice sailing days
>> stuck in between rain and really cold days when you are glad to be
>> anti-freezed.
>>
>> Hey – if anyone has sent an email to me here at work directly our
>> “Spam-Cop” has been busy eating all kinds of incoming email. I couldn’t
>> send email from home to work for a while.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Joe Della Barba*
>>
>> *Coquina*
>>
>> *C&C 35 MK I*
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List So New England retirement/harbor perspectives

[Joel Aronson]

Grew up in RI on the upper bay. East Greenwich has a micro climate with
lots if wind and a nasty chop.   Not many sailboats in Wickford.
 Predominat wind is from the SW.
Joel

On Tuesday, December 31, 2013, Harry Hallgring wrote:

> I grew up in Newport...moved to Little Compton (lowest property taxes in
> RI) 10 years ago...still moor in Brenton Cove (Newport).  I will most
> likely move back when my girls go to college. I work in Melville...only a
> few marinas in Portsmouth. It takes me 90 minutes to get from Newport
> Harbor to New England Boatworks in Melville.  From Newport Harbor...23
> miles to Block Island...45 to the Vineyard...another 20 to Nantucket. Draft
> is not an issue anywhere nearby Newport...gets a little thin over in East
> Greenwich/Warwick areas farther north in the bay. Check Realtor.com for
> housing ideas.
>
> Harry
> MIRAGE
> northeast 39
>
> Sent from my old iPhone
>
> On Dec 31, 2013, at 18:09, Bob McLaughlin  wrote:
>
>   I’m interested in locals’ opinions of good towns to retire to and good
> harbor suggestions to move my C&C to in the So New England area.
>
>  We sailed our C&C 33-II for the past 22 years and last year moved up to
> a C&C 110 (6.5’ draft) with the intent of moving from the Midwest “back” in
> the next ~2-3 years to the southern New England area to retire and do more
> sailing.  (I say “back” since I grew up sailing in NJ with many summers out
> to Nantucket.  My parents lived in Newport for awhile too, so the area from
> ~Block I to Nantucket became the center of my interest and we’ve chartered
> there many times in the years since moving to St Louis.)
>
>  Any thoughts of CT, RI or MA preferences?  This may be mostly an issue
> of tax differences but are there some other state-wide issues someone might
> suggest for consideration?
>
>  Our thinking regarding towns from afar is either the Narragansett Bay
> area or the northeastern shore of Buzzard’s Bay.  It would be ideal to
> spend less than $500k for a 3-4 BR house or condo near the water/boat.
> Reasonable access to a major airport would be a plus too but not under the
> approach/departure flight path (an issue for the Providence
> airport/Greenwich area?), as well as nice shore activities such as theater
> etc.
>
>  The early short-list to explore is below, though I’m curious what gem
> we’re overlooking or perhaps areas to eliminate.   At one point moorings in
> some harbors had long wait lists.  Is that still the case?  What about the
> moorings themselves, are some harbors know for good facilities/better
> holding ground?  Are helical screw mooring fields the way to go?  I thought
> I read some towns were installing them. (Our family lost one boat to a
> hurricane when she dragged her mushroom anchor up onto a sea wall).
>
>  In RI:
>  Bristol or the East Greenwich/Warwick area, though I wonder if it’s a
> bit far up the bay to get out to the islands quickly (though I like the
> idea of some protected sailing for the more blustery days).   Bristol
> appears open to storms but I like the town and harbor area.
>
>  Newport would be great but I fear I’d grow weary of the summer crowds.
> Jamestown seems too open.
>
>  Anyone know about Melville?  Wickford?
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com  'CnC-List@cnc-list.com');>
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa - Insurance

[Peter Fell]

20 % off North Sails for the Vancouver Boat Show. It’s valid before and after 
the show so that should run something like 12 Jan to 6 Feb.

I’ve got a quote coming.

From: Hoyt, Mike 
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:56 AM
To: Peter Fell ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: RE: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa - Insurance

Well the good news is that you will likely end up with a new sail.  Even though 
it will cost you it should feel like a major upgrade on the boat.

Mike



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Peter Fell
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:30 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa - Insurance


Thanks Mike

Unfortunately while I have a lot of documentation from the previous owner, such 
as his logbook (he purchased the boat in 2004) ... no receipts for the sail. 
The boat was an estate sale so what I got is all I will get (I did ask the 
widow during the purchase process if there was any additional documentation). I 
also quizzed the PO’s last sailing partner, who was a wealth of info and had 
worked on several larger projects on the boat (e.g. electric windlass 
installation).

I think I shall do some boat show sail shopping ... and insurance (but that 
will have to wait till September).

Peter

From: Hoyt, Mike 
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 5:44 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa - Insurance

Peter

Once you have sorted this out you may wish to shop around your insurance which 
likely renews annually anyway.  I am currently with the "Mainstay Yacht Plan" 
(Fairway Insurance) and for sails it is as follows:

1 - 5 years old.  100% paid
6-10 years.  Owner pays 20%
11-15 years. Owner pays 25%
16-20 years.  Owner pays 35%
21-25 years. owner pays %50
25+  no coverage

Your sail was 10 years old - do you have receipts for previous owner?  Receipts 
would help with your ins co.  

A ten year old sail is not in any way comparablee to a new sail.  This is a 
roller furling 130% genoa on a C&C27-III.  I am guessing from that is the Go To 
sail for the boat and is well used over those ten years.  Sail shape will have 
been compromised and a new sail will be a delight

Regarding new sails.  Be careful what you buy.  There are some lofts that do 
not specialize in racing sails but make pretty good and reasonably fast sails 
anyway.  There are also lofts that make horrible sails.

Our boat came with many sails when we purchased in 2007. The newest was a 2004 
North Dacron Main 4800 Cruise.  It was three years old when we bought the boat. 
 This was made by North Sailes East in CT who also made an excellent roller 
furling 150 for the boat.  The main was absolutely horrible!  The draft pocket 
was huge and it was impossible to trim a decent shape into this sail.  PO paid 
$1682.22 for this sail in April 2004 and I used it twice and sold it for $300 
in 2011.  We used a 1995 UK Tape drive main in its place which was old but far 
far better- then we paid $3500 for a decent main sail in 2009.  The 1600 spent 
on this sail was a complete waste of money as the sail was useless and either a 
very poor design or a poor execution of a decent design.

You have a 27 mark 3 which has a rep as a tender boat.  You would benefit 
greatly from new flatter sails to keep the boat flat and fast.  I have been in 
the position of a tender boat with sails that seemed good but were older and 
bagged out.  The boat will heel excessively and you will be reefing or changing 
sails frequently.  A new sail with draft forward will transform a C&C 27-III

So speak to your adjuster and find a way for him to write the old sail off and 
consider what you get a discount on a new sail.

One final thing.  Watch the weather.  When big winds are predicted take the 
sail off the furler and store it in the boat.  Furled sails have a tendency to 
unfurl in a wind and get damaged.

Mike



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 8:03 AM
To: Peter Fell; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Wind Storm Damaged Genoa


Perhaps they should simply consider the sail damaged beyond repair and offer 
you the depreciated value less your deductible. That would likely leave you 
with a damaged sail and next to no cash. 

Rich

On Dec 28, 2013, at 4:34, "Peter Fell"  wrote:


  From my point of view it is what is considered ‘reasonable’ ... that’s a 
definition as I think most would agree would be open to interpretation. If a 
$500 repair results in a end-product that will “not bring the sail back to 
pre-damage condition”, then can it be considered ‘reasonable’? Granted, we all 
tend to accept that many repairs result in an end product not 100% as original.

  From: Rich Knowles 
  Sent: Friday, December

Re: Stus-List PFD/life vest

[Michael Brown]

If you have the Hammar MA1 UL auto-inflator on your PDF it has a
water sensitive bobbin similar to the non-HIT models.

http://www.cmhammar.com/products/lifejacket-inflators/ma1-ul/

The HIT technology places the bobbin in a chamber behind a small
spring loaded flap ( Unique hydrostatic valve that protects the water
sensitive element. )

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1



Message: 1 
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:44:35 -0800 
From: Paul Baker  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List PFD/life vest 
Message-ID: <52bf3833.8060...@shaw.ca> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 
 
I have a pair of Mustang HIT auto-inflators (these do not use those  
paper tablets to trigger the inflation so should be far more reliable,  
they have a 5 year service cycle on the inflator mechanism, the standard  
ones are at most 2 years), and recently for some more offshore type  
racing I have also got a Spinlock deckvest (again not the paper trigger  
type) with integrated harness, leg straps and a matching Spinlock tether. 
Both types are comfortable and I always wear them when outside of the  
cockpit (or at all times when singlehanding). 
Remember with any inflatable vest, it only counts as a PFD when actually  
worn, if the CG come checking then having it hanging below means it is  
worthless.  If you are the sort that likes to sail in nice weather  
without any sort of PFD being worn, make sure you have a non-inflatable  
onboard for each person as well. 
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Stus-List Bonne Année!

[Dennis C.]

Happy New Year!

Hope everyone enjoys a safe and happy new year.  

Dennis C. and Admiral Deborah
Touche' 35-1 #83
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Re: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s

[Rick Brass]

If I told you what I think about my 38 mk1, you’d think me a C&C zealot.

 

Wait a second. I’ve owned a C&C for 20 years next June (plus a couple of other 
C&C designed boats).  I’ve belonged to about 4 previous iterations of Stu’s C&C 
list (and recall when Stu originally set up the Photo Album so we’d have a way 
to share pictures of our boats). And I still have my burgees from the C&C 
Sailing Assn. and C&C Sailing -Chesapeake Bay. 

 

Maybe I AM a zealot.

 

Anyhow, the short answer to your query, Jim, is that  the boat is built like a 
tank. It goes to windward like a witch. It can carry a lot of canvas in some 
pretty rough seas. And (I can already hear the shrill howls) – along with the 
33 mk1 – is just about the prettiest sailboat ever made. Of course, that makes 
some sense because Rob Ball told us up in Mystic that the 38 was a stretched 
redesign of the 33.

 

The IOR stern has not been a problem; I’ve broached only once in over 10 years 
of sailing her. Course I don’t have a death wish strong enough to make me fly 
the chute in 20 knots true wind. Hell, hull speed is only about 8 knots and all 
the HP in the world won’t get you to 12 unless you are surfing. Now, the IOR 
stern can make steering an athletic challenge with a 6 ft quartering sea 
running (though a 6 ft quartering swell isn’t a biggie).

 

The downsides include the fact that you will never need berthing for 8 unless 
you are doing fully crewed offshore races – of course several of us have 
installed cabinets in the pilot berths under the side decks. You can’t sleep in 
the T shaped cockpit because of the short seats and bridge deck traveler – but 
that is what foredeck hammocks are for. The ice box is over 7 cubic feet, so 
you need a lot of ice or refrigeration capacity – but then it holds a lot of 
beer. The portlights don’t open – so you will need to think about opening ports 
or some added ventilation. The 20 gallon fuel tank limits your motoring range 
to about 150 NM – I carry extra fuel on deck when cruising.

 

It’s an older design that has some warts. It is definitely not suited as a 
condo on the water like a .Catalina or Beneteau. But when you pass a J Boat or 
a Sawn that cost 5 times what your C&C 38 did, it sort of seems worthwhile.

 

If I win big in the Mega Millions this evening, would I buy a different boat? 

 

Maybe. I’ve always thought the Swan 63/65 is at least as pretty as my 38 and 
has a lot more room. And my Admiral is quite taken with the accommodations in 
catamarans, so maybe a Gunboat 50. And I had a friend with a Bavaria 44 or 46 
that was a great condo while still being a really nice sailboat. But I guess 
I’d have to think about it for a bit first.

 

Guess I am a zealot.

 

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi -1976 C&C 38 mk1

la Belle Aurore -1975 C&C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
lynchja...@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 9:50 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s

 

Hello gang,

I’m just about to close the deal on a 1977 C&C 38 Mark II. The boat is updated 
and loaded for cruising. I love its lines and the way it sails—at least on my 
sea trial. And I’ve had a crush on 1970s C&Cs since I was a teenager.  It 
surveyed well but I’m still wishing I could hear from more people familiar with 
racing and cruising these old 38s.

I enjoy racing but my primary intention with this boat is to cruise it in Puget 
Sound and in and around Vancouver Island. For my tastes, It seems like a nice 
roomy fast cruiser. From listening to a few racers, one potential concern is it 
might broach too easily with the chute up in a breeze. While I don’t intend to 
fly one often, I’d obviously hope it’s not too unstable downwind. I know some 
IOR designs are notorious but I’m not always clear whether to blame the design 
or the skipper.

I saw where a 38 of this vintage, GADZOOKS, was first overall in a race from 
Massachusetts to Bermuda in 2011. And I’ve seen where another old 38 
circumnavigated. Both of which should give me faith. But I’d still love to hear 
from any of you who can give me a scouting report on how this boat sails on 
different points of sail in different conditions as well as any other insights 
you're willing to offer.

Thanks in advance, and happy new year to you all.

Jim Lynch

Olympia, WA.

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Stus-List HNY

[Rich Knowles]

All the best to everyone! Only another 4 months of winter to endure:)

Rich

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Re: Stus-List HNY

[Russ & Melody]

A Happy New year to you and yours, Rich.

And a Happy New Year to all our fellow C&C friends. We wish you all 
the best to come.


The Admiral & I spent a wonderful New Year's Eve at the backyard 
firepit, roasting New York steaks over wood coals. It was overcast 
and dry, ~ 6 C (45 F). Lovely.


Tomorrow we putter around the harbour and toast the points of the 
compass. Then a wee walk on Newcastle Island.

Livin' the dream.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
Nanaimo

At 07:00 PM 31/12/2013, you wrote:

All the best to everyone! Only another 4 months of winter to endure:)

Rich

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Re: Stus-List HNY

[Jim Watts]

Oooo! I like toast points! Especially with the crusts cut off, but I like
those too.


On 31 December 2013 20:01, Russ & Melody  wrote:

>
> A Happy New year to you and yours, Rich.
>
> And a Happy New Year to all our fellow C&C friends. We wish you all the
> best to come.
>
> The Admiral & I spent a wonderful New Year's Eve at the backyard firepit,
> roasting New York steaks over wood coals. It was overcast and dry, ~ 6 C
> (45 F). Lovely.
>
> Tomorrow we putter around the harbour and toast the points of the compass.
> Then a wee walk on Newcastle Island.
> Livin' the dream.
>
> Cheers, Russ
> *Sweet *35 mk-1
> Nanaimo
>
>
> At 07:00 PM 31/12/2013, you wrote:
>
> All the best to everyone! Only another 4 months of winter to endure:)
>
> Rich
>
> ___
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> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
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> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List Happy new Year Everyone!

[Ed Dooley]

Happy New Year all!
Yesterday I removed 800-1000 pounds of ice from my boat, which still left 
frozen scuppers and a bunch of snow. So, not quite the Chesapeake experience. 
At haul out our marina owner tipped the big crane into Lake Champlain, which 
meant the power washing of dozens of boats didn't happen until they sat on the 
hard for a week or more. so much for my boot stripe. Oh, what I meant to say 
was, no usual nice sailing days here for a while, 20 below zero forecast for 
Friday. Did I say Happy new Year yet? Taking it all in stride though.
Ed

> On Dec 31, 2013, at 2:57 PM, "Della Barba, Joe"  
> wrote:
> 
> Hope everyone has a great 2014!
> Here in Maryland we are being tortured by the usual nice sailing days stuck 
> in between rain and really cold days when you are glad to be anti-freezed.
> Hey – if anyone has sent an email to me here at work directly our “Spam-Cop” 
> has been busy eating all kinds of incoming email. I couldn’t send email from 
> home to work for a while.
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina
> C&C 35 MK I
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Re: Stus-List HNY

[Steve Thomas]

Happy New Year!

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jim Watts
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:39 PM
To: 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List HNY


Oooo! I like toast points! Especially with the crusts cut off, but I like those 
too.




On 31 December 2013 20:01, Russ & Melody  wrote:


  A Happy New year to you and yours, Rich.

  And a Happy New Year to all our fellow C&C friends. We wish you all the best 
to come.

  The Admiral & I spent a wonderful New Year's Eve at the backyard firepit, 
roasting New York steaks over wood coals. It was
overcast and dry, ~ 6 C (45 F). Lovely.

  Tomorrow we putter around the harbour and toast the points of the compass. 
Then a wee walk on Newcastle Island.
  Livin' the dream.

  Cheers, Russ
  Sweet 35 mk-1
  Nanaimo


  At 07:00 PM 31/12/2013, you wrote:

All the best to everyone! Only another 4 months of winter to endure:)

Rich

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--
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List So New England retirement/harbor perspectives

[Andrew Burton]

Bob, I live in Newport because it's a sailor's Mecca, pure and simple. It's a 
wonderful place to sail, with reliable breezes for daysails and warm temps in 
summer. You can get away from the slithering hordes by hanging out on our boat. 
And in his economic climate, 500K buys a lot of house near the water.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Dec 31, 2013, at 18:09, "Bob McLaughlin"  wrote:

> I’m interested in locals’ opinions of good towns to retire to and good harbor 
> suggestions to move my C&C to in the So New England area.
>  
> We sailed our C&C 33-II for the past 22 years and last year moved up to a C&C 
> 110 (6.5’ draft) with the intent of moving from the Midwest “back” in the 
> next ~2-3 years to the southern New England area to retire and do more 
> sailing.  (I say “back” since I grew up sailing in NJ with many summers out 
> to Nantucket.  My parents lived in Newport for awhile too, so the area from 
> ~Block I to Nantucket became the center of my interest and we’ve chartered 
> there many times in the years since moving to St Louis.)
>  
> Any thoughts of CT, RI or MA preferences?  This may be mostly an issue of tax 
> differences but are there some other state-wide issues someone might suggest 
> for consideration? 
>  
> Our thinking regarding towns from afar is either the Narragansett Bay area or 
> the northeastern shore of Buzzard’s Bay.  It would be ideal to spend less 
> than $500k for a 3-4 BR house or condo near the water/boat.  Reasonable 
> access to a major airport would be a plus too but not under the 
> approach/departure flight path (an issue for the Providence airport/Greenwich 
> area?), as well as nice shore activities such as theater etc.
>  
> The early short-list to explore is below, though I’m curious what gem we’re 
> overlooking or perhaps areas to eliminate.   At one point moorings in some 
> harbors had long wait lists.  Is that still the case?  What about the 
> moorings themselves, are some harbors know for good facilities/better holding 
> ground?  Are helical screw mooring fields the way to go?  I thought I read 
> some towns were installing them. (Our family lost one boat to a hurricane 
> when she dragged her mushroom anchor up onto a sea wall).
>  
> In RI:
> Bristol or the East Greenwich/Warwick area, though I wonder if it’s a bit far 
> up the bay to get out to the islands quickly (though I like the idea of some 
> protected sailing for the more blustery days).   Bristol appears open to 
> storms but I like the town and harbor area.
>  
> Newport would be great but I fear I’d grow weary of the summer crowds.   
> Jamestown seems too open. 
>  
> Anyone know about Melville?  Wickford?
>  
> In MA:
> Marion or Padanaram seem possibly idea, and I love insight to these.  What 
> about Mattapoisett?  Is my thinking that getting onto the Cape is asking for 
> traffic and crowd headaches correct?
>  
> In CT:
> Stonington (though getting a bit east, our daughter lives in Newton MA- but 
> right on I-95 maybe no further away by car than say, Marion...)
>  
> I’d welcome any thoughts and opinions from the List.
>  
> Bob McLaughlin
> Blue Devil
> C&C 110
>  
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Re: Stus-List So New England retirement/harbor perspectives

[Lee]

Bob,I don't know about home costs there but Wickford is a lovely town with 
great marine facilities and a very healthy racing program .It is quite near to 
the west passage to the atlantic and accessto airports.
Hope this helps.   Lee
s/v Maggie Lee
   C&C 35-3 c/b


-Original Message-
From: Bob McLaughlin 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Dec 31, 2013 6:09 pm
Subject: Stus-List So New England retirement/harbor perspectives




I’m interested in locals’ opinions of good towns to retire to and good harbor 
suggestions to move my C&C to in the So New England area.
 
We sailed our C&C 33-II for the past 22 years and last year moved up to a C&C 
110 (6.5’ draft) with the intent of moving from the Midwest “back” in the next 
~2-3 years to the southern New England area to retire and do more sailing.  (I 
say “back” since I grew up sailing in NJ with many summers out to Nantucket.  
My parents lived in Newport for awhile too, so the area from ~Block I to 
Nantucket became the center of my interest and we’ve chartered there many times 
in the years since moving to St Louis.)
 
Any thoughts of CT, RI or MA preferences?  This may be mostly an issue of tax 
differences but are there some other state-wide issues someone might suggest 
for consideration?  
 
Our thinking regarding towns from afar is either the Narragansett Bay area or 
the northeastern shore of Buzzard’s Bay.  It would be ideal to spend less than 
$500k for a 3-4 BR house or condo near the water/boat.  Reasonable access to a 
major airport would be a plus too but not under the approach/departure flight 
path (an issue for the Providence airport/Greenwich area?), as well as nice 
shore activities such as theater etc. 
 
The early short-list to explore is below, though I’m curious what gem we’re 
overlooking or perhaps areas to eliminate.   At one point moorings in some 
harbors had long wait lists.  Is that still the case?  What about the moorings 
themselves, are some harbors know for good facilities/better holding ground?  
Are helical screw mooring fields the way to go?  I thought I read some towns 
were installing them. (Our family lost one boat to a hurricane when she dragged 
her mushroom anchor up onto a sea wall). 
 
In RI:
Bristol or the East Greenwich/Warwick area, though I wonder if it’s a bit far 
up the bay to get out to the islands quickly (though I like the idea of some 
protected sailing for the more blustery days).   Bristol appears open to storms 
but I like the town and harbor area.
 
Newport would be great but I fear I’d grow weary of the summer crowds.   
Jamestown seems too open.  
 
Anyone know about Melville?  Wickford?
 
In MA:
Marion or Padanaram seem possibly idea, and I love insight to these.  What 
about Mattapoisett?  Is my thinking that getting onto the Cape is asking for 
traffic and crowd headaches correct?
 
In CT:
Stonington (though getting a bit east, our daughter lives in Newton MA- but 
right on I-95 maybe no further away by car than say, Marion...)
 
I’d welcome any thoughts and opinions from the List.
 
Bob McLaughlin
Blue Devil
C&C 110
 


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Re: Stus-List old C&C 38s vs. J-42

[Ken Heaton]

If you want a cabin in each end have you looked at the C&C 34+ or the 37+ ?
 also known as the 34/36 and the 37/40

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/40foot/40b3pg01.htm

Ken H.


On 31 December 2013 21:08, Dave Godwin  wrote:

> >  I expect the J/42 would be almost as good as a C&C. <
>
> Martin,
>
> Yup. I’ve raced on J/30’s, J/24’s, J/41’s, J/105’s, and J/120’s. I had a
> chance years ago to informally go head-to-head upwind against a new J/42 in
> flat water and ~15 knots of breeze. It couldn’t get away from us. I may
> have pissed the owner off. I have always been aware that the J-boat has
> done a very good job of “marketing" and I’ll leave it at that. I don’t want
> to start any flame wars.
>
> We’re in our early 60’s and I’m moving into cruising mode. The J/42 allows
> us (me) to handle a larger boat easily and comes with two separate cabins
> at each end of the boat which becomes a consideration when guests are
> involved for a week or so in in the Bahamas.
>
> If it were just me and my old race crew were available to crew, I’d buy a
> C&C 41.  :-)
>
> Cheers and Happy New Year. Off to a stupid party...
> Dave
>
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Chesapeake Bay
>
> On Dec 31, 2013, at 7:52 PM, Martin DeYoung 
> wrote:
>
> > … moving up to a J/42 for other reasons. <
>
> Dave,
>
> There are two J/42s in racer cruiser mode moored close to Calypso at
> Shilshole in Seattle.  One of them belongs to a friend and C/R class
> competitor.  We have C/R raced against each other for many years.  The J/42
> owes my old 43 about 12 seconds a mile and is clearly faster in light air.
> It takes TWS at 10+ for Calypso to gain especially on a reach or beat.
>
> Both J/42s are used extensively by couples in the retirement age/mode for
> cruising around the PNW.  If your plan is the cruise or C/R race
> short-handed I expect the J/42 would be almost as good as a C&C.
>
> Happy New Year,
>
> Martin
> Calypso
> 1970 C&C 43
> Seattle
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Dave Godwin
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:34 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Scouting report on old C&C 38s
>
> Jim,
>
> I’m going to jump in and echo what others are saying: don’t get overly
> concerned about the downwind characteristics of the older IOR influenced
> hulls like C&C 38.
>
> If you are planning on pressing on as much canvass as possible while going
> downwind then you may have your hands full. But that’s racing. Ease off a
> bit. I’ve raced on IOR One-tons and there is a vast difference between that
> “IOR” and the “IOR shape" of the earlier C&C’s. For that matter I would
> suggest that one of loveliest but biggest handfuls of a boat downwind was
> the Ted Hood designed Gulfstar Custom 40. I loved that boat and almost
> bought one but, Lord, downwind with the ‘chute up there wasn’t a wheel big
> enough with enough purchase to keep it under control. “Broaches R Us.” The
> C&C 38 is not even in that category or the old racing IOR boats for that
> matter.
>
> Personally, I think that our C&C 37 is the follow-on to the C&C 38 (yes, I
> know  smaller but the specs put it at 37’ 9”...). A bit less radical in
> hull design and a bit better fins and rudder shape but essentially the same
> animal. We love our 37 although we are starting to think about moving up to
> a J/42 for other reasons. To echo what Martin’s wife says about the 36, my
> wife loves the 37 because it is the perfect blend of speed, comfort,
> sea-keeping, dryness and most importantly the ability to handle the loads
> and be able to manage around the docks by the two of us.
>
> The only bad thing I can say about the 38 is that the cockpit is bit
> pinched. So is ours. Eh...
>
> If you spring for it you won’t be unhappy. Really good looking and nice
> boat. What Martins says, it will do distance sailing comfortably.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Chesapeake Bay
>
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