Re: Stus-List Winterizing

[Rich Knowles]

Responding to the need to run the engine up to temperature after changing the 
oil, I cannot see any reasonable need to do that. Running the engine and 
getting the oil up to temperature before pumping it out of the engine will help 
remove as much condensation and water that may be in the oil as possible and 
also pick up and suspend any crap that has settled to the bottom of the pan 
since the last run.

Once the new oil is installed, running the engine for a minute or two will 
ensure that the various bearing surfaces have the new oil in them for the 
winter with a minimum of foreign substances such as water present. I see no 
need to run the engine for any significant length of time or to get the oil up 
to operating temperature.

Also, Ken said earlier "In the spring, I put about a tablespoonful of fresh 
diesel oil into the air intake and turn the engine over 3 or 4 times without 
starting it. Can anyone on the list who has more engineering knowledge tell me 
why this might not be a good idea?" I'm not sure what the diesel fuel in the 
air intake will do other than upset the air fuel balance needed for combustion. 
The injectors should be operational and capable of providing enough fuel to 
start the engine. The idea of turning the engine over a few times without 
starting it seems like a good one as that will get the lubricating oil into the 
various bearings before they are put under load for the first time.

Rich Knowles
INDIGO LF38
Halifax, NS.


On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:52 AM, dwight  wrote:

If you don’t run the engine after the oil change the new oil will just sit in 
the sump all winter long…best to give her a run and get the new stuff where 
it’s needed…how long you have to run to achieve that I am not sure but I change 
oil for the winter storage before my last trip to the marina, for me that’s 
about a 20 minute run under power.
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo
Sent: November 26, 2013 11:59 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing
 
I understand the need to get the temperature up in order to get the old oil 
out, but why do I need to run it up to temp with the new oil?  I have just been 
turning the engine over for a minute or less to get the oil circulated. (Engine 
block is still warm- but certainly not up to temp
 

--
Jonathan
Indigo C&C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

On Nov 26, 2013, at 14:47, dwight veinot  wrote:

> Chuck
> 
> Yes warm the oil you want to change out before draining the sump but it is 
> equally important to run the engine up to temp for a while on the new oil
> 
> Dwight Veinot
> Alianna 
> C&C 35 MKII
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>  
> 
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
> Yeah Dwight,
> I guess you are right.  I didn't have to but I like to warm up the engine oil 
> before draining that, so I've always run the engine to temperature before 
> winterizing.  
> I draw in the pink stuff, then hand pump the oil from the crancase.  I have a 
> routine; ice box, foot pump that into the sink, do the second sink, then the 
> head, then last is the bilge and the two elec bilge pumps and the manual 
> bilge pump.  This year I captured most of the antifreeze from the pumps and 
> will use again next year.
>  
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> From: "dwight veinot" 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:07:49 AM
> 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing
> 
> Chuck
> 
> If I remember you have a Universal M4-30.  Is yours your water cooled and 
> that is why you got the engine up to 190, to make sure the thermostat opened. 
>  No need to do that if your engine has a heat exchanger like mine does
> 
> Dwight Veinot
> Alianna 
> C&C 35 MKII
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>  
> 
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
> I tried the Toronto Bucket Method today.  Nice to have that option.  It 
> works.  It is environmentally friendly since it captures antifreeze escaping 
> the exhaust.   
> 
> My marina hauled my boat today, but the water was turned off everywhere 
> because of the risk of freezeup for the last few weeks.   It works.  It is 
> environmentally friendly since it captures antifreeze escaping the exhaust.   
> But it was hard to get the engine to draw from the bucket until I primed the 
> 15' hose w antifreeze using a funnel.   Had to run for about twenty minutes 
> to get the temp up to 190, to be sure the thermostat was open.  I started w 4 
> 1/2 gallons of pink RV antifreeze.  The engine sucked up about 1 1/2 gallons. 
>  Used the rest to winterize the ice box drain, foot pump, sink traps, and 
> bilge pumps.
> 
> Love the list for new ideas!
>  
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> From: "dwight veinot" 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 8:26:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>  
> 
> Another 35 MKII owner on the list...only 147 of that design ever built, they 
> a

Re: Stus-List Winterizing

[Josh Muckley]

I can't speek for putting diesel in the air intake but the practice of
prelubing is one that is supported and performed by most manufacturers of
large industrial diesels (locomotive and 4160v generators).  Amsoil has
some literature regarding the importance of prelube describing how most of
the engine wear during the life of a car engine occurs during "dry
starts".  Convieniently they also sell a prelube pump that cycles for 10
seconds prior to engine start.  This is coincidentally the same amount of
time the 4kv EDGs I use at work prelube during non-emergency starts.

If I have two people then I use the decompression levers while they roll
the engine a few times prior to start.  If it is just me then I will pull
and hold the engine stop plunger while rolling the engine.  As advised
recently one needs to be conscientious not to roll it too long or sea water
can back up in the exhaust and damage the engine.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
On Nov 29, 2013 4:13 AM, "Rich Knowles"  wrote:

> Responding to the need to run the engine up to temperature after changing
> the oil, I cannot see any reasonable need to do that. Running the engine
> and getting the oil up to temperature before pumping it out of the engine
> will help remove as much condensation and water that may be in the oil as
> possible and also pick up and suspend any crap that has settled to the
> bottom of the pan since the last run.
>
> Once the new oil is installed, running the engine for a minute or two will
> ensure that the various bearing surfaces have the new oil in them for the
> winter with a minimum of foreign substances such as water present. I see no
> need to run the engine for any significant length of time or to get the oil
> up to operating temperature.
>
> Also, Ken said earlier "In the spring, I put about a tablespoonful of
> fresh diesel oil into the air intake and turn the engine over 3 or 4 times
> without starting it. Can anyone on the list who has more engineering
> knowledge tell me why this might not be a good idea?" I'm not sure what the
> diesel fuel in the air intake will do other than upset the air fuel balance
> needed for combustion. The injectors should be operational and capable of
> providing enough fuel to start the engine. The idea of turning the engine
> over a few times without starting it seems like a good one as that will get
> the lubricating oil into the various bearings before they are put under
> load for the first time.
>
> Rich Knowles
> INDIGO LF38
> Halifax, NS.
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:52 AM, dwight  wrote:
>
> If you don’t run the engine after the oil change the new oil will just sit
> in the sump all winter long…best to give her a run and get the new stuff
> where it’s needed…how long you have to run to achieve that I am not sure
> but I change oil for the winter storage before my last trip to the marina,
> for me that’s about a 20 minute run under power.
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Indigo
> *Sent:* November 26, 2013 11:59 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>
> I understand the need to get the temperature up in order to get the old
> oil out, but why do I need to run it up to temp with the new oil?  I have
> just been turning the engine over for a minute or less to get the oil
> circulated. (Engine block is still warm- but certainly not up to temp
>
>
> --
> Jonathan
> Indigo C&C 35III
> SOUTHPORT CT
>
>
> On Nov 26, 2013, at 14:47, dwight veinot  wrote:
>
> Chuck
> Yes warm the oil you want to change out before draining the sump but it is
> equally important to run the engine up to temp for a while on the new oil
>
> Dwight Veinot
> Alianna
> C&C 35 MKII
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
> Yeah Dwight,
> I guess you are right.  I didn't have to but I like to warm up the engine
> oil before draining that, so I've always run the engine to temperature
> before winterizing.
> I draw in the pink stuff, then hand pump the oil from the crancase.  I
> have a routine; ice box, foot pump that into the sink, do the second sink,
> then the head, then last is the bilge and the two elec bilge pumps and the
> manual bilge pump.  This year I captured most of the antifreeze from the
> pumps and will use again next year.
>
>
> Chuck
> *Resolute*
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> --
> *From: *"dwight veinot" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:07:49 AM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>
> Chuck
> If I remember you have a Universal M4-30.  Is yours your water cooled and
> that is why you got the engine up to 190, to make sure the thermostat
> opened.  No need to do that if your engine has a heat exchanger like mine
> does
>
> Dwight Veinot
> Alianna
> C&C 35 MKII
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
> I tried the Tor

Re: Stus-List Winterizing

[dwight]

OK Rich, you can knock my practice if you want.I am not an expert but I like
to do it that way, it works for me and that way I feel certain that I got
new oil where it might help during winter storage.  So to be precise are you
recommending 1 minute or 2 minutes or ???

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: November 29, 2013 5:13 AM
To: cnc-list Cnc-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing

 

Responding to the need to run the engine up to temperature after changing
the oil, I cannot see any reasonable need to do that. Running the engine and
getting the oil up to temperature before pumping it out of the engine will
help remove as much condensation and water that may be in the oil as
possible and also pick up and suspend any crap that has settled to the
bottom of the pan since the last run.

 

Once the new oil is installed, running the engine for a minute or two will
ensure that the various bearing surfaces have the new oil in them for the
winter with a minimum of foreign substances such as water present. I see no
need to run the engine for any significant length of time or to get the oil
up to operating temperature.

 

Also, Ken said earlier "In the spring, I put about a tablespoonful of fresh
diesel oil into the air intake and turn the engine over 3 or 4 times without
starting it. Can anyone on the list who has more engineering knowledge tell
me why this might not be a good idea?" I'm not sure what the diesel fuel in
the air intake will do other than upset the air fuel balance needed for
combustion. The injectors should be operational and capable of providing
enough fuel to start the engine. The idea of turning the engine over a few
times without starting it seems like a good one as that will get the
lubricating oil into the various bearings before they are put under load for
the first time.

 

Rich Knowles
INDIGO LF38
Halifax, NS.

 

On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:52 AM, dwight  wrote:

 

If you don't run the engine after the oil change the new oil will just sit
in the sump all winter long.best to give her a run and get the new stuff
where it's needed.how long you have to run to achieve that I am not sure but
I change oil for the winter storage before my last trip to the marina, for
me that's about a 20 minute run under power.

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo
Sent: November 26, 2013 11:59 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing

 

I understand the need to get the temperature up in order to get the old oil
out, but why do I need to run it up to temp with the new oil?  I have just
been turning the engine over for a minute or less to get the oil circulated.
(Engine block is still warm- but certainly not up to temp

 

--

Jonathan

Indigo C&C 35III

SOUTHPORT CT


On Nov 26, 2013, at 14:47, dwight veinot  wrote:

Chuck

Yes warm the oil you want to change out before draining the sump but it is
equally important to run the engine up to temp for a while on the new oil




Dwight Veinot

Alianna 
C&C 35 MKII

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Chuck S  wrote:

Yeah Dwight,
I guess you are right.  I didn't have to but I like to warm up the engine
oil before draining that, so I've always run the engine to temperature
before winterizing.  
I draw in the pink stuff, then hand pump the oil from the crancase.  I have
a routine; ice box, foot pump that into the sink, do the second sink, then
the head, then last is the bilge and the two elec bilge pumps and the manual
bilge pump.  This year I captured most of the antifreeze from the pumps and
will use again next year.

 

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ


  _  


From: "dwight veinot" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:07:49 AM


Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing

Chuck

If I remember you have a Universal M4-30.  Is yours your water cooled and
that is why you got the engine up to 190, to make sure the thermostat
opened.  No need to do that if your engine has a heat exchanger like mine
does




Dwight Veinot

Alianna 
C&C 35 MKII

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Chuck S  wrote:

I tried the Toronto Bucket Method today.  Nice to have that option.  It
works.  It is environmentally friendly since it captures antifreeze escaping
the exhaust.   

My marina hauled my boat today, but the water was turned off everywhere
because of the risk of freezeup for the last few weeks.   It works.  It is
environmentally friendly since it captures antifreeze escaping the exhaust.
But it was hard to get the engine to draw from the bucket until I primed the
15' hose w antifreeze using a funnel.   Had to run for about twenty minutes
to get the temp up to 190, to be sure the thermostat was open.  I started w
4 1/2 gallons of pink RV antifreeze.  The engine sucked up about 1 1/2
gallons.  Used the rest to winterize the ice box drain, foo

Re: Stus-List Winterizing

[Rich Knowles]

Hi Dwight. Your practice is just fine. You have a good reason to run the engine 
as you motor it over for winter storage. If you don't need to run it, I simply 
can't see any advantage to running it for any longer than a minute. Global 
warming etc. That is plenty of time to get the new oil distributed throughout 
the engine. For accuracy, I suggest a digital watch is preferable:)

Rich

> On Nov 29, 2013, at 7:44, "dwight"  wrote:
> 
> OK Rich, you can knock my practice if you want…I am not an expert but I like 
> to do it that way, it works for me and that way I feel certain that I got new 
> oil where it might help during winter storage.  So to be precise are you 
> recommending 1 minute or 2 minutes or ???
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich 
> Knowles
> Sent: November 29, 2013 5:13 AM
> To: cnc-list Cnc-List
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>  
> Responding to the need to run the engine up to temperature after changing the 
> oil, I cannot see any reasonable need to do that. Running the engine and 
> getting the oil up to temperature before pumping it out of the engine will 
> help remove as much condensation and water that may be in the oil as possible 
> and also pick up and suspend any crap that has settled to the bottom of the 
> pan since the last run.
>  
> Once the new oil is installed, running the engine for a minute or two will 
> ensure that the various bearing surfaces have the new oil in them for the 
> winter with a minimum of foreign substances such as water present. I see no 
> need to run the engine for any significant length of time or to get the oil 
> up to operating temperature.
>  
> Also, Ken said earlier "In the spring, I put about a tablespoonful of fresh 
> diesel oil into the air intake and turn the engine over 3 or 4 times without 
> starting it. Can anyone on the list who has more engineering knowledge tell 
> me why this might not be a good idea?" I'm not sure what the diesel fuel in 
> the air intake will do other than upset the air fuel balance needed for 
> combustion. The injectors should be operational and capable of providing 
> enough fuel to start the engine. The idea of turning the engine over a few 
> times without starting it seems like a good one as that will get the 
> lubricating oil into the various bearings before they are put under load for 
> the first time.
>  
> Rich Knowles
> INDIGO LF38
> Halifax, NS.
> 
>  
> On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:52 AM, dwight  wrote:
>  
> If you don’t run the engine after the oil change the new oil will just sit in 
> the sump all winter long…best to give her a run and get the new stuff where 
> it’s needed…how long you have to run to achieve that I am not sure but I 
> change oil for the winter storage before my last trip to the marina, for me 
> that’s about a 20 minute run under power.
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo
> Sent: November 26, 2013 11:59 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>  
> I understand the need to get the temperature up in order to get the old oil 
> out, but why do I need to run it up to temp with the new oil?  I have just 
> been turning the engine over for a minute or less to get the oil circulated. 
> (Engine block is still warm- but certainly not up to temp
>  
> 
> --
> Jonathan
> Indigo C&C 35III
> SOUTHPORT CT
> 
>> On Nov 26, 2013, at 14:47, dwight veinot  wrote:
>> Chuck
>> 
>> Yes warm the oil you want to change out before draining the sump but it is 
>> equally important to run the engine up to temp for a while on the new oil
>> 
>> Dwight Veinot
>> Alianna 
>> C&C 35 MKII
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
>> Yeah Dwight,
>> I guess you are right.  I didn't have to but I like to warm up the engine 
>> oil before draining that, so I've always run the engine to temperature 
>> before winterizing.  
>> I draw in the pink stuff, then hand pump the oil from the crancase.  I have 
>> a routine; ice box, foot pump that into the sink, do the second sink, then 
>> the head, then last is the bilge and the two elec bilge pumps and the manual 
>> bilge pump.  This year I captured most of the antifreeze from the pumps and 
>> will use again next year.
>>  
>> 
>> Chuck
>> Resolute
>> 1990 C&C 34R
>> Atlantic City, NJ
>> From: "dwight veinot" 
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:07:49 AM
>> 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>> If I remember you have a Universal M4-30.  Is yours your water cooled and 
>> that is why you got the engine up to 190, to make sure the thermostat 
>> opened.  No need to do that if your engine has a heat exchanger like mine 
>> does
>> 
>> Dwight Veinot
>> Alianna 
>> C&C 35 MKII
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>>  
>> 
>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
>> I tried the Toronto Bucket Method today.  Nice to have that option.  It

Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil

[Stevan Plavsa]

You may be onto something Bill. I've read about using ATF to free up seized
motorcycle engines. Pour some ATF down each spark plug hole and wait a few
days .. rock the bike in gear, etc.

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto



On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Dennis C.  wrote:

> as does sears.com marketplace.
>
> Dennis C.
>
>   --
>  *From:* Jim Watts 
> *To:* 1 CnC List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 28, 2013 5:40 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
>
> Sometimes Amazon has laughably bizarre prices.
>
>
> On 28 November 2013 14:22, Stevan Plavsa  wrote:
>
> Moyer mailed it to me, no problems.
>
> Steve
> Suhana, C&C 32
> Toronto
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 3:42 PM, dwight  wrote:
>
>   Wow…is it because they got an original looking container…I totally
> agree with using this stuff in an A4 based on my past experience but I
> would have never tried it at that price…crazy, it used to be about $5 for
> that much
>
>  --
>  *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim
> Watts
> *Sent:* November 28, 2013 3:35 PM
> *To:* JOHN D IRVIN; 1 CnC List
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
>
>  Amazon.ca carries Marvel Mystery Oil. Only $78.87 a pint. These people
> obviously think we're exceptionally stupid.
>
>
> http://www.amazon.ca/Marvel-Mystery-Oil-465-012R-Pint/dp/B004FCJ9IS/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1385667197&sr=1-1&keywords=Marvel+Mystery+Oil
>
>
>  On 28 November 2013 10:40, JOHN D IRVIN  wrote:
>   Not aware of any Canadian source. Ask a friend visiting USA to pick you
> up a few bottles. It cannot be mailed. Maybe magic, but if the Atomic
> Master Moyer says - I do!
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
>  --
>  No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6374 - Release Date: 11/28/13
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil

[Tim Sippel]

I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..

 

Ahh hear it is   http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/

 

Tim > 
 Toronto   

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Stevan Plavsa
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 8:06 AM
To: Dennis C.; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil

 

You may be onto something Bill. I've read about using ATF to free up
seized motorcycle engines. Pour some ATF down each spark plug hole and
wait a few days .. rock the bike in gear, etc.

 

Steve

Suhana, C&C 32

Toronto

 

 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Dennis C.  wrote:

as does sears.com marketplace.

Dennis C.

 





From: Jim Watts 
To: 1 CnC List  
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 5:40 PM


Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil

 

Sometimes Amazon has laughably bizarre prices.

 

On 28 November 2013 14:22, Stevan Plavsa
 wrote:

Moyer mailed it to me, no problems.

 

Steve

Suhana, C&C 32

Toronto

 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 3:42 PM, dwight 
wrote:

Wow...is it because they got an original looking container...I
totally agree with using this stuff in an A4 based on my past experience
but I would have never tried it at that price...crazy, it used to be
about $5 for that much

 





From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf
Of Jim Watts
Sent: November 28, 2013 3:35 PM
To: JOHN D IRVIN; 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil

 

Amazon.ca carries Marvel Mystery Oil. Only $78.87 a pint. These
people obviously think we're exceptionally stupid.


http://www.amazon.ca/Marvel-Mystery-Oil-465-012R-Pint/dp/B004FCJ9IS/ref=
sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1385667197&sr=1-1&keywords=Marvel+Mystery+Oil

 

On 28 November 2013 10:40, JOHN D IRVIN 
wrote:

Not aware of any Canadian source. Ask a friend visiting USA to
pick you up a few bottles. It cannot be mailed. Maybe magic, but if the
Atomic Master Moyer says - I do!


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com  
CnC-List@cnc-list.com




-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC





No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com  
Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6374 - Release Date:
11/28/13


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com  
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

 

 


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com  
CnC-List@cnc-list.com




-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

 

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Stus-List Spring start up

[Ken Rodmell]

I just want to make it clear that I put about a tablespoonful of lubricating
oil into the air intake, not diesel fuel. Then I turn it over 3-4 times
without starting. I thought the slightly oilier fuel mix might be beneficial
to the dry cylinders for the first couple of strokes.

A friend told me he got this advice years ago from an engineer who worked on
diesels.

Happy thanksgiving to all the American C&Cers.

Best, Ken
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Re: Stus-List Spring start up

[dwight veinot]

Ken
Thanks for the specifics of what you do...can't hurt anything and probably
helps a little as you describe...so I'll give my little gal a bit of wake
up juice come spring
Best to you

Dwight Veinot
Alianna
C&C 35 MKII
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Ken Rodmell  wrote:

>  I just want to make it clear that I put about a tablespoonful of *lubricating
> oil* into the air intake, not diesel fuel. Then I turn it over 3-4 times
> without starting. I thought the slightly oilier fuel mix might be
> beneficial to the dry cylinders for the first couple of strokes.
>
> A friend told me he got this advice years ago from an engineer who worked
> on diesels.
>
> Happy thanksgiving to all the American C&Cers.
>
> Best, Ken
>
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> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil

[Eric Frank]

Tim,

Someone on this list suggested that when I was having trouble with the rusty 
bolts on the coupler between Cat's Paw's transmission and prop shaft.  It 
worked very well. But here's a question.  The ATF did not mix well with the 
acetone.  I could shake it up and make a suspension, like oil and vinegar in 
salad dressing, but then it separated out over the next couple of minutes.  So 
I poured on the suspension.  Does this mixture stay dissolved for others on the 
list? Is it important to use a particular brand of ATF (I went cheap)?

Eric Frank

On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:01 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

> From: "Tim Sippel" 
> To: 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
> Message-ID:
>   <694f055c6c52124ebfcd2c09b41d9c3f10044...@cl08mbc.rci.rogers.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh hear it is   http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/
> 
> 
> 
> Tim > 
> Toronto   
> 

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Re: Stus-List Winterizing

[Josh Muckley]

I should have clarified that prelubing does not put oil in/on the cylinders
it simply pressurizes the oil header and gets it to the bearings.  Some of
the industrial diesels have nozzels that direct bearing lube oil to the
bottom of the cylinders.  I believe we all have to rely on splash to
lubricate the walls of our engine cylinders.  In gasoline engines I am
familiar with fogging oil in the intake to coat the walls enough to
lubricate the dry cylinder for starting in the spring and prevent corrosion
during the winter.  I am curious if the practice of putting diesel or oil
in the intake isn't attempting to achieve the same thing.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
On Nov 29, 2013 4:37 AM, "Josh Muckley"  wrote:

> I can't speek for putting diesel in the air intake but the practice of
> prelubing is one that is supported and performed by most manufacturers of
> large industrial diesels (locomotive and 4160v generators).  Amsoil has
> some literature regarding the importance of prelube describing how most of
> the engine wear during the life of a car engine occurs during "dry
> starts".  Convieniently they also sell a prelube pump that cycles for 10
> seconds prior to engine start.  This is coincidentally the same amount of
> time the 4kv EDGs I use at work prelube during non-emergency starts.
>
> If I have two people then I use the decompression levers while they roll
> the engine a few times prior to start.  If it is just me then I will pull
> and hold the engine stop plunger while rolling the engine.  As advised
> recently one needs to be conscientious not to roll it too long or sea water
> can back up in the exhaust and damage the engine.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> On Nov 29, 2013 4:13 AM, "Rich Knowles"  wrote:
>
>> Responding to the need to run the engine up to temperature after changing
>> the oil, I cannot see any reasonable need to do that. Running the engine
>> and getting the oil up to temperature before pumping it out of the engine
>> will help remove as much condensation and water that may be in the oil as
>> possible and also pick up and suspend any crap that has settled to the
>> bottom of the pan since the last run.
>>
>> Once the new oil is installed, running the engine for a minute or two
>> will ensure that the various bearing surfaces have the new oil in them for
>> the winter with a minimum of foreign substances such as water present. I
>> see no need to run the engine for any significant length of time or to get
>> the oil up to operating temperature.
>>
>> Also, Ken said earlier "In the spring, I put about a tablespoonful of
>> fresh diesel oil into the air intake and turn the engine over 3 or 4 times
>> without starting it. Can anyone on the list who has more engineering
>> knowledge tell me why this might not be a good idea?" I'm not sure what the
>> diesel fuel in the air intake will do other than upset the air fuel balance
>> needed for combustion. The injectors should be operational and capable of
>> providing enough fuel to start the engine. The idea of turning the engine
>> over a few times without starting it seems like a good one as that will get
>> the lubricating oil into the various bearings before they are put under
>> load for the first time.
>>
>> Rich Knowles
>> INDIGO LF38
>> Halifax, NS.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:52 AM, dwight  wrote:
>>
>> If you don’t run the engine after the oil change the new oil will just
>> sit in the sump all winter long…best to give her a run and get the new
>> stuff where it’s needed…how long you have to run to achieve that I am not
>> sure but I change oil for the winter storage before my last trip to the
>> marina, for me that’s about a 20 minute run under power.
>>
>> --
>> *From:* CnC-List 
>> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Indigo
>> *Sent:* November 26, 2013 11:59 PM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>>
>> I understand the need to get the temperature up in order to get the old
>> oil out, but why do I need to run it up to temp with the new oil?  I have
>> just been turning the engine over for a minute or less to get the oil
>> circulated. (Engine block is still warm- but certainly not up to temp
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan
>> Indigo C&C 35III
>> SOUTHPORT CT
>>
>>
>> On Nov 26, 2013, at 14:47, dwight veinot  wrote:
>>
>> Chuck
>> Yes warm the oil you want to change out before draining the sump but it
>> is equally important to run the engine up to temp for a while on the new oil
>>
>>  Dwight Veinot
>> Alianna
>> C&C 35 MKII
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
>> Yeah Dwight,
>> I guess you are right.  I didn't have to but I like to warm up the engine
>> oil before draining that, so I've always run the engine to temperature
>> before winterizing.
>> I draw in the pink stuff, then hand pump the oil from the crancase.  I
>> have a routine; ice box, foot pump that into the sink, do the second 

Re: Stus-List Spring start up

[Rich Knowles]

Interesting. Not sure it does more than the spray of fuel oil that each 
cylinder will get as you turn over the engine. Everything helps, I guess, but 
it's a bit obsessive from my point of view. 

Rich

> On Nov 29, 2013, at 10:27, dwight veinot  wrote:
> 
> Ken
> Thanks for the specifics of what you do...can't hurt anything and probably 
> helps a little as you describe...so I'll give my little gal a bit of wake up 
> juice come spring
> Best to you
> 
> Dwight Veinot
> Alianna 
> C&C 35 MKII
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Ken Rodmell  wrote:
>> I just want to make it clear that I put about a tablespoonful of lubricating 
>> oil into the air intake, not diesel fuel. Then I turn it over 3-4 times 
>> without starting. I thought the slightly oilier fuel mix might be beneficial 
>> to the dry cylinders for the first couple of strokes.   
>> 
>> A friend told me he got this advice years ago from an engineer who worked on 
>> diesels.
>> 
>> Happy thanksgiving to all the American C&Cers. 
>> 
>> Best, Ken
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil

[Wally Bryant]

Did we change the subject?  Marvel Mystery Oil and Penetrating Oil are 
two entirely different things, I think.



you wrote:

  think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..

  Ahh hear it ishttp://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/



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Re: Stus-List Winterizing

[Steve Thomas]

A friend of mine managed to seize the engine in an almost unused diesel 
generator that way. It would not budge either way
immediately afterwards, in spite of big wrenches and much grunting. Don't know 
yet what broke. He filled it with oil and has left
it sitting.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Josh Muckley
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 4:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing



 " As advised recently one needs to be conscientious not to roll it too long or 
sea water can back up in the exhaust and damage
the engine. "
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk

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Stus-List ATF and Acetonel

[Robert Abbott]

Eric:

I keep a small container of 50%-50% ATF and acetone on hand..it 
mixes perfectly and does not separate like yours did.not sure what 
happened to yours!


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2013/11/29 10:32 AM, Eric Frank wrote:

Tim,

Someone on this list suggested that when I was having trouble with the 
rusty bolts on the coupler between Cat's Paw's transmission and prop 
shaft.  It worked very well. But here's a question.  The ATF did not 
mix well with the acetone.  I could shake it up and make a suspension, 
like oil and vinegar in salad dressing, but then it separated out over 
the next couple of minutes.  So I poured on the suspension.  Does this 
mixture stay dissolved for others on the list? Is it important to use 
a particular brand of ATF (I went cheap)?


Eric Frank

On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:01 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
 wrote:


From: "Tim Sippel" >

To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
Message-ID:
<694f055c6c52124ebfcd2c09b41d9c3f10044...@cl08mbc.rci.rogers.ca 
>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..



Ahh hear it is http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/



Tim >
Toronto 





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Re: Stus-List Spring start up

[dwight]

Guilty here on the count of being obsessive.I got time to spare some days
since retiring

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: November 29, 2013 11:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spring start up

 

Interesting. Not sure it does more than the spray of fuel oil that each
cylinder will get as you turn over the engine. Everything helps, I guess,
but it's a bit obsessive from my point of view. 

Rich


On Nov 29, 2013, at 10:27, dwight veinot  wrote:

Ken
Thanks for the specifics of what you do...can't hurt anything and probably
helps a little as you describe...so I'll give my little gal a bit of wake up
juice come spring

Best to you




Dwight Veinot

Alianna 
C&C 35 MKII

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Ken Rodmell  wrote:

I just want to make it clear that I put about a tablespoonful of lubricating
oil into the air intake, not diesel fuel. Then I turn it over 3-4 times
without starting. I thought the slightly oilier fuel mix might be beneficial
to the dry cylinders for the first couple of strokes.   

A friend told me he got this advice years ago from an engineer who worked on
diesels.

Happy thanksgiving to all the American C&Cers. 

Best, Ken 


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  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date: 11/29/13

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Re: Stus-List Spring start up

[Rich Knowles]

Everything in proportion! Attaboy!

Rich

> On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:14, "dwight"  wrote:
> 
> Guilty here on the count of being obsessive…I got time to spare some days 
> since retiring
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich 
> Knowles
> Sent: November 29, 2013 11:00 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Spring start up
>  
> Interesting. Not sure it does more than the spray of fuel oil that each 
> cylinder will get as you turn over the engine. Everything helps, I guess, but 
> it's a bit obsessive from my point of view. 
> 
> Rich
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2013, at 10:27, dwight veinot  wrote:
>> Ken
>> Thanks for the specifics of what you do...can't hurt anything and probably 
>> helps a little as you describe...so I'll give my little gal a bit of wake up 
>> juice come spring
>> Best to you
>> 
>> Dwight Veinot
>> Alianna 
>> C&C 35 MKII
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>>  
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Ken Rodmell  wrote:
>> I just want to make it clear that I put about a tablespoonful of lubricating 
>> oil into the air intake, not diesel fuel. Then I turn it over 3-4 times 
>> without starting. I thought the slightly oilier fuel mix might be beneficial 
>> to the dry cylinders for the first couple of strokes.   
>> 
>> A friend told me he got this advice years ago from an engineer who worked on 
>> diesels.
>> 
>> Happy thanksgiving to all the American C&Cers. 
>> 
>> Best, Ken
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> ___
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>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date: 11/29/13
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Re: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel

[dwight]

And speaking of obsessive??? It's a good thing sometimes, means you really
care

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott
Sent: November 29, 2013 11:14 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel

 

Eric:

I keep a small container of 50%-50% ATF and acetone on hand..it mixes
perfectly and does not separate like yours did.not sure what happened to
yours!

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2013/11/29 10:32 AM, Eric Frank wrote:

Tim, 

 

Someone on this list suggested that when I was having trouble with the rusty
bolts on the coupler between Cat's Paw's transmission and prop shaft.  It
worked very well. But here's a question.  The ATF did not mix well with the
acetone.  I could shake it up and make a suspension, like oil and vinegar in
salad dressing, but then it separated out over the next couple of minutes.
So I poured on the suspension.  Does this mixture stay dissolved for others
on the list? Is it important to use a particular brand of ATF (I went
cheap)?

 



Eric Frank









On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:01 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:





From: "Tim Sippel" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
Message-ID:
 <694f055c6c52124ebfcd2c09b41d9c3f10044...@cl08mbc.rci.rogers.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..



Ahh hear it is   http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/



Tim > 
Toronto   




 






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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date: 11/29/13

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Re: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel

[Rich Knowles]

True. 

Rich

> On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:20, "dwight"  wrote:
> 
> And speaking of obsessive??? It’s a good thing sometimes, means you really 
> care
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert 
> Abbott
> Sent: November 29, 2013 11:14 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel
>  
> Eric:
> 
> I keep a small container of 50%-50% ATF and acetone on hand..it mixes 
> perfectly and does not separate like yours did.not sure what happened to 
> yours!
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
> 
>> On 2013/11/29 10:32 AM, Eric Frank wrote:
>> Tim,
>>  
>> Someone on this list suggested that when I was having trouble with the rusty 
>> bolts on the coupler between Cat's Paw's transmission and prop shaft.  It 
>> worked very well. But here's a question.  The ATF did not mix well with the 
>> acetone.  I could shake it up and make a suspension, like oil and vinegar in 
>> salad dressing, but then it separated out over the next couple of minutes.  
>> So I poured on the suspension.  Does this mixture stay dissolved for others 
>> on the list? Is it important to use a particular brand of ATF (I went cheap)?
>>  
>> Eric Frank
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:01 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Tim Sippel" 
>> To: 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
>> Message-ID:
>>  <694f055c6c52124ebfcd2c09b41d9c3f10044...@cl08mbc.rci.rogers.ca>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ahh hear it is   http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tim > 
>> Toronto   
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>  
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date: 11/29/13
> ___
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel

[billbruce]

I just tried a 50-50 mix of acetone and power steering fluid on some ss screws 
that were welded to a piece of aluminum (the latch mechanism for the small 
overhead ports i'm getting remade thru hammerhead). Did not work, sheared off 
both screws and had to take it to a machine shop.

Bill Bruce
LF38

 Rich Knowles  wrote: 
> True. 
> 
> Rich
> 
> > On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:20, "dwight"  wrote:
> > 
> > And speaking of obsessive??? It’s a good thing sometimes, means you really 
> > care
> >  
> > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert 
> > Abbott
> > Sent: November 29, 2013 11:14 AM
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Subject: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel
> >  
> > Eric:
> > 
> > I keep a small container of 50%-50% ATF and acetone on hand..it mixes 
> > perfectly and does not separate like yours did.not sure what happened 
> > to yours!
> > 
> > Rob Abbott
> > AZURA
> > C&C 32 - 84
> > Halifax, N.S.
> > 
> >> On 2013/11/29 10:32 AM, Eric Frank wrote:
> >> Tim,
> >>  
> >> Someone on this list suggested that when I was having trouble with the 
> >> rusty bolts on the coupler between Cat's Paw's transmission and prop 
> >> shaft.  It worked very well. But here's a question.  The ATF did not mix 
> >> well with the acetone.  I could shake it up and make a suspension, like 
> >> oil and vinegar in salad dressing, but then it separated out over the next 
> >> couple of minutes.  So I poured on the suspension.  Does this mixture stay 
> >> dissolved for others on the list? Is it important to use a particular 
> >> brand of ATF (I went cheap)?
> >>  
> >> Eric Frank
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:01 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> From: "Tim Sippel" 
> >> To: 
> >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
> >> Message-ID:
> >>  <694f055c6c52124ebfcd2c09b41d9c3f10044...@cl08mbc.rci.rogers.ca>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >> 
> >> I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Ahh hear it is   http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Tim > 
> >> Toronto   
> >> 
> >> 
> >>  
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> >  
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date: 11/29/13
> > ___
> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com


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Re: Stus-List FW: vacation

[Fred Hazzard]

Thanks Russ.  It is good to be back after spending 6 weeks at sea.   The
cruise was delivery from Portland, Or to San Diego.  About 1100 miles.   We
then participated with about 130 other boats in the Baja Ha Ha  rally to
Cabo San Lucas.  About 850 miles. We were fortunate enough to win our class.
>From there we cruised around the tip of the Baja to La Paz.   Another 150
miles.  So after about 2100 miles Fury is safely moored in La Paz.   I
expect to go back to La Paz in Feb./Mar. to cruise with my family.   In
March we will be cruising to Puerto Villarta  where will participate in the
cruisers Banderas Bay regatta.  After that we will cruise back to La Paz.
In late April the plan is to begin the delivery cruise back to Portland.
Because of the notorious northwest winds known as the Baja bash many of my
friends are recommending that we sail home via Hawaii.   Not sure about
that, as it is 2000 miles longer.

 

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

C&C 44

Portland, OR

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ &
Melody
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 8:04 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List FW: vacation

 

Welcome back Fred.

We missed you.

I hope you had a pleasant cruise.

Cheers, Russ


At 05:09 AM 28/11/2013, you wrote:



Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="=_NextPart_000_0001_01CEEBF8.0F2F06C0"
Content-Language: en-us

Stu:  I am back from by cruise.  Please restore me to the list.
 
Thanks
 
Fred Hazzard
 
S/V Fury
Portland, Or
 
From: Fred Hazzard [ mailto:fredhazz...@spiritone.com
 ] 
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 10:43 AM
To: 'Stu'
Subject: vacation 
 
Stu, please put me on hold for receiving  forum emails.   As I mentioned
earlier I am leaving for Mexico and will be out of touch for the next 6
weeks.
 
Thanks
 
Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C&C 44
Portland, OR
 
PS:  When the decals arrive I will have one of my crew members who are
meeting  me in San Diego bring them to me.
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Re: Stus-List FW: vacation

[Richard N. Bush]

I'd like to hear about the trip! Did you meet up with Wally while there?


Richard
1987 33-II

Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite 9
Louisville, Kentucky 40220 
502-584-7255



-Original Message-
From: Fred Hazzard 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:16 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List FW: vacation



Thanks Russ.  It is good to be back after spending 6 weeks at sea.   The cruise 
was delivery from Portland, Or to San Diego.  About 1100 miles.   We then 
participated with about 130 other boats in the Baja Ha Ha  rally to Cabo San 
Lucas.  About 850 miles. We were fortunate enough to win our class.  >From 
there we cruised around the tip of the Baja to La Paz.   Another 150 miles.  So 
after about 2100 miles Fury is safely moored in La Paz.   I expect to go back 
to La Paz in Feb./Mar. to cruise with my family.   In March we will be cruising 
to Puerto Villarta  where will participate in the cruisers Banderas Bay 
regatta.  After that we will cruise back to La Paz.   In late April the plan is 
to begin the delivery cruise back to Portland.  Because of the notorious 
northwest winds known as the Baja bash many of my friends are recommending that 
we sail home via Hawaii.   Not sure about that, as it is 2000 miles longer.
 
Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C&C 44
Portland, OR
 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & Melody
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 8:04 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List FW: vacation

 
Welcome back Fred.

We missed you.

I hope you had a pleasant cruise.

Cheers, Russ


At 05:09 AM 28/11/2013, you wrote:


Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="=_NextPart_000_0001_01CEEBF8.0F2F06C0"
Content-Language: en-us

Stu:  I am back from by cruise.  Please restore me to the list.
 
Thanks
 
Fred Hazzard
 
S/V Fury
Portland, Or
 
From: Fred Hazzard [ mailto:fredhazz...@spiritone.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 10:43 AM
To: 'Stu'
Subject: vacation 
 
Stu, please put me on hold for receiving  forum emails.   As I mentioned 
earlier I am leaving for Mexico and will be out of touch for the next 6 weeks.
 
Thanks
 
Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C&C 44
Portland, OR
 
PS:  When the decals arrive I will have one of my crew members who are meeting  
me in San Diego bring them to me.
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
his List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
ttp://www.cncphotoalbum.com
nc-l...@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel

[Jim Watts]

It's supposed to be ATF and not power steering fluid, not that it's going
to make a huge difference.
However, in some cases, like the aluminum bloom that accompanies
uninsulated  SS fastenings, *nothing* is going to work. If something is
going to work, the ATF/acetone mix is the best bet.


On 29 November 2013 07:51,  wrote:

> I just tried a 50-50 mix of acetone and power steering fluid on some ss
> screws that were welded to a piece of aluminum (the latch mechanism for the
> small overhead ports i'm getting remade thru hammerhead). Did not work,
> sheared off both screws and had to take it to a machine shop.
>
> Bill Bruce
> LF38
>
>  Rich Knowles  wrote:
> > True.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > > On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:20, "dwight"  wrote:
> > >
> > > And speaking of obsessive??? It’s a good thing sometimes, means you
> really care
> > >
> > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert Abbott
> > > Sent: November 29, 2013 11:14 AM
> > > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > > Subject: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel
> > >
> > > Eric:
> > >
> > > I keep a small container of 50%-50% ATF and acetone on hand..it
> mixes perfectly and does not separate like yours did.not sure what
> happened to yours!
> > >
> > > Rob Abbott
> > > AZURA
> > > C&C 32 - 84
> > > Halifax, N.S.
> > >
> > >> On 2013/11/29 10:32 AM, Eric Frank wrote:
> > >> Tim,
> > >>
> > >> Someone on this list suggested that when I was having trouble with
> the rusty bolts on the coupler between Cat's Paw's transmission and prop
> shaft.  It worked very well. But here's a question.  The ATF did not mix
> well with the acetone.  I could shake it up and make a suspension, like oil
> and vinegar in salad dressing, but then it separated out over the next
> couple of minutes.  So I poured on the suspension.  Does this mixture stay
> dissolved for others on the list? Is it important to use a particular brand
> of ATF (I went cheap)?
> > >>
> > >> Eric Frank
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:01 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> From: "Tim Sippel" 
> > >> To: 
> > >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
> > >> Message-ID:
> > >>  <694f055c6c52124ebfcd2c09b41d9c3f10044...@cl08mbc.rci.rogers.ca>
> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > >>
> > >> I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ahh hear it is   http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Tim >
> > >> Toronto 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> > >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> > >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > >
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date:
> 11/29/13
> > > ___
> > > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> > > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> > > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>



-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Stus-List Autohelm Auto pilot

[Fred Hazzard]

One of the casualties on my recent cruise to Mexico is the brain for my
Autohelm st 6000.   It is the 300 series from the mid 90's.   So if any of
know of system that was removed and a working brain still exist I am in the
market.   Or if any you know of a company that may have removed a system to
upgrade to a newer system I'd appreciate any advice you have.

 

Thanks

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

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Re: Stus-List Autohelm Auto pilot

[David Blair]

Fred. I have an Autohelm 6000 and it is still working fine. There are a
couple of spare connections which I suspect were for a hard wired remote. If
you come upon a source for older Autohelm equipment I'd appreciate hearing
too; having the remote would be handy.. Thanks

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Hazzard
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 8:25 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Autohelm Auto pilot

 

One of the casualties on my recent cruise to Mexico is the brain for my
Autohelm st 6000.   It is the 300 series from the mid 90's.   So if any of
know of system that was removed and a working brain still exist I am in the
market.   Or if any you know of a company that may have removed a system to
upgrade to a newer system I'd appreciate any advice you have.

 

Thanks

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

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Re: Stus-List Autohelm Auto pilot

[Jim Watts]

I believe that any brain will drive your system, even non-Raymarine ones,
and the new brain boxes are much smarter than the old ones. I'm sure the
experts will chime in...Fred, Rich?


On 29 November 2013 08:25, Fred Hazzard  wrote:

> One of the casualties on my recent cruise to Mexico is the brain for my
> Autohelm st 6000.   It is the 300 series from the mid 90’s.   So if any of
> know of system that was removed and a working brain still exist I am in the
> market.   Or if any you know of a company that may have removed a system to
> upgrade to a newer system I’d appreciate any advice you have.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Fred Hazzard
>
> S/V Fury
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
___
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing

[Josh Muckley]

I might be better that the generator simply wouldn't turn over.  If it is
hydrolocked (cylidars full of water) it is possible to crack the block.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
On Nov 29, 2013 10:09 AM, "Steve Thomas"  wrote:

>  A friend of mine managed to seize the engine in an almost unused diesel
> generator that way. It would not budge either way immediately afterwards,
> in spite of big wrenches and much grunting. Don't know yet what broke. He
> filled it with oil and has left it sitting.
>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]*On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley
> *Sent:* Friday, November 29, 2013 4:38 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>
> 
>
>  " As advised recently one needs to be conscientious not to roll it too
> long or sea water can back up in the exhaust and damage the engine. "
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
>>
>>
>>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel

[Joel Aronson]

Power steering fluid is ATF!  I ended up strripping the screw head when I
tried to remove the stainless screw, but was able to use a screw extractor.
 Cheaper than the machine shop!

Joel
35/3
annapolis

On Friday, November 29, 2013, Jim Watts wrote:

> It's supposed to be ATF and not power steering fluid, not that it's going
> to make a huge difference.
> However, in some cases, like the aluminum bloom that accompanies
> uninsulated  SS fastenings, *nothing* is going to work. If something is
> going to work, the ATF/acetone mix is the best bet.
>
>
> On 29 November 2013 07:51,  wrote:
>
> I just tried a 50-50 mix of acetone and power steering fluid on some ss
> screws that were welded to a piece of aluminum (the latch mechanism for the
> small overhead ports i'm getting remade thru hammerhead). Did not work,
> sheared off both screws and had to take it to a machine shop.
>
> Bill Bruce
> LF38
>
>  Rich Knowles  wrote:
> > True.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > > On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:20, "dwight"  wrote:
> > >
> > > And speaking of obsessive??? It’s a good thing sometimes, means you
> really care
> > >
> > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert Abbott
> > > Sent: November 29, 2013 11:14 AM
> > > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > > Subject: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel
> > >
> > > Eric:
> > >
> > > I keep a small container of 50%-50% ATF and acetone on hand..it
> mixes perfectly and does not separate like yours did.not sure what
> happened to yours!
> > >
> > > Rob Abbott
> > > AZURA
> > > C&C 32 - 84
> > > Halifax, N.S.
> > >
> > >> On 2013/11/29 10:32 AM, Eric Frank wrote:
> > >> Tim,
> > >>
> > >> Someone on this list suggested that when I was having trouble with
> the rusty bolts on the coupler between Cat's Paw's transmission and prop
> shaft.  It worked very well. But here's a question.  The ATF did not mix
> well with the acetone.  I could shake it up and make a suspension, like oil
> and vinegar in salad dressing, but then it separated out over the next
> couple of minutes.  So I poured on the suspension.  Does this mixture stay
> dissolved for others on the list? Is it important to use a particular brand
> of ATF (I went cheap)?
> > >>
> > >> Eric Frank
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:01 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> From: "Tim Sippel" 
> > >> To: 
> > >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
> > >> Message-ID:
> > >>  <694f055c6c52124ebfcd2c09b41d9c3f10044...@cl08mbc.rci.rogers.ca>
> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > >>
> > >> I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ahh hear it is   http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Tim >
> > >> Toronto 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> > >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> > >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > >
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date:
> 11/29/13
> > > ___
> > >
>
> --
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel

[billbruce]

The machine shop could not remove the broken screws either. Had to over drill 
and go with h-coil inserts.

 Joel Aronson  wrote: 
> Power steering fluid is ATF!  I ended up strripping the screw head when I
> tried to remove the stainless screw, but was able to use a screw extractor.
>  Cheaper than the machine shop!
> 
> Joel
> 35/3
> annapolis
> 
> On Friday, November 29, 2013, Jim Watts wrote:
> 
> > It's supposed to be ATF and not power steering fluid, not that it's going
> > to make a huge difference.
> > However, in some cases, like the aluminum bloom that accompanies
> > uninsulated  SS fastenings, *nothing* is going to work. If something is
> > going to work, the ATF/acetone mix is the best bet.
> >
> >
> > On 29 November 2013 07:51,  wrote:
> >
> > I just tried a 50-50 mix of acetone and power steering fluid on some ss
> > screws that were welded to a piece of aluminum (the latch mechanism for the
> > small overhead ports i'm getting remade thru hammerhead). Did not work,
> > sheared off both screws and had to take it to a machine shop.
> >
> > Bill Bruce
> > LF38
> >
> >  Rich Knowles  wrote:
> > > True.
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > > > On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:20, "dwight"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And speaking of obsessive??? It’s a good thing sometimes, means you
> > really care
> > > >
> > > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> > Robert Abbott
> > > > Sent: November 29, 2013 11:14 AM
> > > > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > > > Subject: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel
> > > >
> > > > Eric:
> > > >
> > > > I keep a small container of 50%-50% ATF and acetone on hand..it
> > mixes perfectly and does not separate like yours did.not sure what
> > happened to yours!
> > > >
> > > > Rob Abbott
> > > > AZURA
> > > > C&C 32 - 84
> > > > Halifax, N.S.
> > > >
> > > >> On 2013/11/29 10:32 AM, Eric Frank wrote:
> > > >> Tim,
> > > >>
> > > >> Someone on this list suggested that when I was having trouble with
> > the rusty bolts on the coupler between Cat's Paw's transmission and prop
> > shaft.  It worked very well. But here's a question.  The ATF did not mix
> > well with the acetone.  I could shake it up and make a suspension, like oil
> > and vinegar in salad dressing, but then it separated out over the next
> > couple of minutes.  So I poured on the suspension.  Does this mixture stay
> > dissolved for others on the list? Is it important to use a particular brand
> > of ATF (I went cheap)?
> > > >>
> > > >> Eric Frank
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:01 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> From: "Tim Sippel" 
> > > >> To: 
> > > >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
> > > >> Message-ID:
> > > >>  <694f055c6c52124ebfcd2c09b41d9c3f10044...@cl08mbc.rci.rogers.ca>
> > > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > > >>
> > > >> I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Ahh hear it is   http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Tim >
> > > >> Toronto 
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> > > >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> > > >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date:
> > 11/29/13
> > > > ___
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Watts
> > Paradigm Shift
> > C&C 35 Mk III
> > Victoria, BC
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel
> 301 541 8551


___
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Re: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel

[Josh Muckley]

Not to get nit picky but even though many power steering applications call
for PS or ATF, the two are not the same.
On Nov 29, 2013 11:36 AM, "Joel Aronson"  wrote:

> Power steering fluid is ATF!  I ended up strripping the screw head when I
> tried to remove the stainless screw, but was able to use a screw extractor.
>  Cheaper than the machine shop!
>
> Joel
> 35/3
> annapolis
>
> On Friday, November 29, 2013, Jim Watts wrote:
>
>> It's supposed to be ATF and not power steering fluid, not that it's going
>> to make a huge difference.
>> However, in some cases, like the aluminum bloom that accompanies
>> uninsulated  SS fastenings, *nothing* is going to work. If something is
>> going to work, the ATF/acetone mix is the best bet.
>>
>>
>> On 29 November 2013 07:51,  wrote:
>>
>> I just tried a 50-50 mix of acetone and power steering fluid on some ss
>> screws that were welded to a piece of aluminum (the latch mechanism for the
>> small overhead ports i'm getting remade thru hammerhead). Did not work,
>> sheared off both screws and had to take it to a machine shop.
>>
>> Bill Bruce
>> LF38
>>
>>  Rich Knowles  wrote:
>> > True.
>> >
>> > Rich
>> >
>> > > On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:20, "dwight"  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > And speaking of obsessive??? It’s a good thing sometimes, means you
>> really care
>> > >
>> > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
>> Robert Abbott
>> > > Sent: November 29, 2013 11:14 AM
>> > > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > > Subject: Stus-List ATF and Acetonel
>> > >
>> > > Eric:
>> > >
>> > > I keep a small container of 50%-50% ATF and acetone on hand..it
>> mixes perfectly and does not separate like yours did.not sure what
>> happened to yours!
>> > >
>> > > Rob Abbott
>> > > AZURA
>> > > C&C 32 - 84
>> > > Halifax, N.S.
>> > >
>> > >> On 2013/11/29 10:32 AM, Eric Frank wrote:
>> > >> Tim,
>> > >>
>> > >> Someone on this list suggested that when I was having trouble with
>> the rusty bolts on the coupler between Cat's Paw's transmission and prop
>> shaft.  It worked very well. But here's a question.  The ATF did not mix
>> well with the acetone.  I could shake it up and make a suspension, like oil
>> and vinegar in salad dressing, but then it separated out over the next
>> couple of minutes.  So I poured on the suspension.  Does this mixture stay
>> dissolved for others on the list? Is it important to use a particular brand
>> of ATF (I went cheap)?
>> > >>
>> > >> Eric Frank
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:01 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> From: "Tim Sippel" 
>> > >> To: 
>> > >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil
>> > >> Message-ID:
>> > >>  <694f055c6c52124ebfcd2c09b41d9c3f10044...@cl08mbc.rci.rogers.ca>
>> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> > >>
>> > >> I think I read Automatic transmission fluid mixed with Acetone ..
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Ahh hear it is   http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Tim >
>> > >> Toronto 
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> ___
>> > >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> > >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> > >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> > >
>> > > No virus found in this message.
>> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> > > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date:
>> 11/29/13
>> > > ___
>> > >
>>
>> --
>> Jim Watts
>> Paradigm Shift
>> C&C 35 Mk III
>> Victoria, BC
>>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
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> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Autohelm Auto pilot

[Rich Knowles]

True statement. 

Rich

> On Nov 29, 2013, at 12:27, Jim Watts  wrote:
> 
> I believe that any brain will drive your system, even non-Raymarine ones, and 
> the new brain boxes are much smarter than the old ones. I'm sure the experts 
> will chime in...Fred, Rich?
> 
> 
>> On 29 November 2013 08:25, Fred Hazzard  wrote:
>> One of the casualties on my recent cruise to Mexico is the brain for my 
>> Autohelm st 6000.   It is the 300 series from the mid 90’s.   So if any of 
>> know of system that was removed and a working brain still exist I am in the 
>> market.   Or if any you know of a company that may have removed a system to 
>> upgrade to a newer system I’d appreciate any advice you have.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Fred Hazzard
>> 
>> S/V Fury
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing - putting oil in the intake

[Rick Brass]

Since your reply is to Joshes comment about getting water into an engine by
cranking it too long, I presume that is what your friend did. 

 

There are two typical was for water intrusion to seize a diesel engine:

 

Corrosion - Normally the flow of compressed vapor in the cylinders will keep
water from going from the exhaust manifold to the cylinder while the engine
is cranking. After the engine stops cranking, water can drain back through
the exhaust valve into the cylinder and cause the piston rings to corrode to
the cylinder walls and seize the engine over time. The cure, unfortunately,
is to disassemble the engine, hone the cylinders (or replace the liners if
they are part of the design), and replace the rings, bearings, seals, etc.
Often, rebuilding with  a new short block is more cost effective than a
piece by piece rebuild. 

 

Hydraulic Lock - If your friend got water into the exhaust manifold by
cranking, then stopped cranking, and the engine "seized" when he started
cranking again, the problem is probably an hydraulic lock and not corrosion.
Incompressible liquid gets into a cylinder or two and when the piston moves
upwards it reaches a point where the crankshaft can no longer turn. There is
a slight chance of this happening when an engine is cranked too long with
the compression released. A starter is usually not strong enough to actually
break any engine components, but the engine will be locked up by hydraulic
pressure in the cylinders. The solution here is to pull the cylinder head
(the quicker the better) remove the liquid, spray in a bit of fogging oil to
lube the cylinders, reinstall the head, and retime the injection pump. Not a
pretty thing to do, but less expensive than a rebuild.

 

>From my perspective as a Yanmar, Perkins, Cummins industrial engine
maintenance trainer, and a former certified Cummins diesel technician, I'd
like to comment on the practice of putting liquid oil (diesel, motor, or
Marvel Mystery) into the intake manifold before first startup in the spring.

 

Don't do it. It only takes an ounce or so getting into through an intake
valve into a cylinder to cause an hydraulic lock. And if you only put a
tablespoon or so into the air intake, realistically, none of the oil is
going to make it into the cylinders before startup.

 

It would not be a bad practice to spray a small bit of fogging oil into the
intake as you crank the engine for the first time. The atomized oil will be
drawn past the intake valves to lube valve guides and upper cylinder walls,
but the quantity will not be enough to cause hydraulic lock.

 

Actually, putting in the fogging oil (a couple of cranks of the engine with
fuel cutoff, while spraying oil into the intake) as a last step in the layup
process makes more sense than fogging at first startup.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Thomas
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:09 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing

 

A friend of mine managed to seize the engine in an almost unused diesel
generator that way. It would not budge either way immediately afterwards, in
spite of big wrenches and much grunting. Don't know yet what broke. He
filled it with oil and has left it sitting. 

 

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII

 

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 4:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing
 

 


 " As advised recently one needs to be conscientious not to roll it too long
or sea water can back up in the exhaust and damage the engine. " 

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk

 

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Re: Stus-List Winterizing - putting oil in the intake

[Josh Muckley]

Thanks Rick, better stated than mine.  Nice to also get some insight about
fogging a diesel.
On Nov 29, 2013 12:13 PM, "Rick Brass"  wrote:

> Since your reply is to Joshes comment about getting water into an engine
> by cranking it too long, I presume that is what your friend did.
>
>
>
> There are two typical was for water intrusion to seize a diesel engine:
>
>
>
> Corrosion - Normally the flow of compressed vapor in the cylinders will
> keep water from going from the exhaust manifold to the cylinder while the
> engine is cranking. After the engine stops cranking, water can drain back
> through the exhaust valve into the cylinder and cause the piston rings to
> corrode to the cylinder walls and seize the engine over time. The cure,
> unfortunately, is to disassemble the engine, hone the cylinders (or replace
> the liners if they are part of the design), and replace the rings,
> bearings, seals, etc. Often, rebuilding with  a new short block is more
> cost effective than a piece by piece rebuild.
>
>
>
> Hydraulic Lock - If your friend got water into the exhaust manifold by
> cranking, then stopped cranking, and the engine “seized” when he started
> cranking again, the problem is probably an hydraulic lock and not
> corrosion. Incompressible liquid gets into a cylinder or two and when the
> piston moves upwards it reaches a point where the crankshaft can no longer
> turn. There is a slight chance of this happening when an engine is cranked
> too long with the compression released. A starter is usually not strong
> enough to actually break any engine components, but the engine will be
> locked up by hydraulic pressure in the cylinders. The solution here is to
> pull the cylinder head (the quicker the better) remove the liquid, spray in
> a bit of fogging oil to lube the cylinders, reinstall the head, and retime
> the injection pump. Not a pretty thing to do, but less expensive than a
> rebuild.
>
>
>
> From my perspective as a Yanmar, Perkins, Cummins industrial engine
> maintenance trainer, and a former certified Cummins diesel technician, I’d
> like to comment on the practice of putting liquid oil (diesel, motor, or
> Marvel Mystery) into the intake manifold before first startup in the spring.
>
>
>
> Don’t do it. It only takes an ounce or so getting into through an intake
> valve into a cylinder to cause an hydraulic lock. And if you only put a
> tablespoon or so into the air intake, realistically, none of the oil is
> going to make it into the cylinders before startup.
>
>
>
> It would not be a bad practice to spray a small bit of fogging oil into
> the intake as you crank the engine for the first time. The atomized oil
> will be drawn past the intake valves to lube valve guides and upper
> cylinder walls, but the quantity will not be enough to cause hydraulic lock.
>
>
>
> Actually, putting in the fogging oil (a couple of cranks of the engine
> with fuel cutoff, while spraying oil into the intake) as a last step in the
> layup process makes more sense than fogging at first startup.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve
> Thomas
> *Sent:* Friday, November 29, 2013 10:09 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>
>
>
> A friend of mine managed to seize the engine in an almost unused diesel
> generator that way. It would not budge either way immediately afterwards,
> in spite of big wrenches and much grunting. Don't know yet what broke. He
> filled it with oil and has left it sitting.
>
>
>
> Steve Thomas
>
> C&C27 MKIII
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ]*On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley
> *Sent:* Friday, November 29, 2013 4:38 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>
>
> 
>
>
>  " As advised recently one needs to be conscientious not to roll it too
> long or sea water can back up in the exhaust and damage the engine. "
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Marvel Mystery Oil

[Michael Brown]

Maybe not too much of a mystery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Mystery_Oil

The product is composed of 74 percent mineral oil, 25 percent stoddard solvent, 
and 1 percent lard.

Mineral oil - ie unscented baby oil, thickened as Vaseline
Stoddard solvent - paint thinner
Lard - rendered pork fat


The paint thinner will work its way into cracks, dissolve old grease and carry 
the mineral oil with it.
For a more aggressive penetrating oil increase the percentage of the solvent. 
For a winterizing job
decrease the percentage. Very little lubricant is required. Not sure what 
advantage lard has over
newer "slippery stuff" such as teflon, maybe in the dissolved state it carries 
into thread and cracks better.

ATF and Acetone? Another oil and solvent mix. Note that older Ford ATF had 
whale oil in it as a friction
modifier.

As a cautionary note it is possible to mix various petrochemical products and 
end up with something
that evaporates into vapor that is explosive rather than being too lean or rich 
to burn well. Raw
gasoline tends to evaporate away, oil barely evaporates so neither is likely to 
produce an explosive
cloud - though they both do burn well. Mixing various things together,  
particularly like acetone, can
result in a mixture that will explode from a simple act of pouring it from one 
container to another.

http://www.workplacegroup.net/articles/article-flammable-liquids.htm

Mike
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Stus-List Vacation Report?

[Lee Youngblood]

But Fred,

That's not enough info!  Didn't you do the Ha Ha?  Did you do a blog 
or have a trip report?


Come on tell us. . .



Stu:  I am back from by cruise.  Please restore me to the list.

Thanks

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury
Portland, Or


--

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Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm

[Gary Nylander]

I'm with Curtis on this one. I seldom reef because we are mostly in light 
air. I drop from the 155 to the 140 when there are full whitecaps (15?) and 
then reef at about 20. Don't have a second reef, so if it is blowing harder 
than low 20's, I go to the working jib.


My working jib is probably original to the boat (1980) - when I bought her, 
it was very new feeling (crinkly) and seldom gets out of the bag.it is a 
Hood, which I understand was original equipment. The two PO's were up a 
river 10 miles from the Bay, so I think there was a fair amount of light air 
sailing - and motoring.


There's something amiss if you have to reef at 10 knots - either your sails 
are so bagged out that the boat is falling over or the mast is set 
incorrectly. The 30-1 is a stout craft it takes a lot of breeze to get 
it squirrely enough that I am worried about rounding up.


Gary
30-1 # 593

- Original Message - 
From: "Curtis" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm


yea i'm with Ddwight on this one,
My C&C30 mk1 # 675 loves 11 thru17 knots.
I dont start thinking of a reef till i'm over 17 knots. I usley drop
down to the working 115% first. If needed I will put the 1st Reef in
around 18-22 knots.
I have hade some uncontroled steering falling off the wind when
tacking. that was my fault. not the boat.

1981 C&C 30 MK1 #675

Beaufort, Sc.



On 11/26/13, dwight  wrote:

I don't think you should have to reef that soon.what is the rake on your
mast



  _

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Aaron
Rouhi
Sent: November 26, 2013 7:31 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm



MK1 is stiff for sure but I just wish I had less weather helm. I generally
reef in anything above 10 knots...



Cheers,

Aaron R.

Admiral Maggie,

1979 C&C 30 MK1 #540

Annapolis, MD



  _

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:46:07 -0400
From: dwight...@gmail.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm

The 30 MKI is just a much stiffer boat than the 30 MKII; see here:
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/technical/stability.htm

I believe that makes a huge difference in how these 2 very different C&C 
30

designs perform going to weather, I believe this definitely has an effect
on
heel angle and propensity to round up...I would expect the 30 MKII to
outperform the 30 MKI in light air but in heavier air I would expect the
MKI
to outperform the MKII, even given that in most areas the MKII has a 
higher

rated speed potential and I believ that is due to the relative stiffnesses
of the boats...here on St. Margaret's Bay where we have mostly fresher
afternoon breezes the MKI rules




Dwight Veinot

Alianna
C&C 35 MKII

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS



On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Bill Coleman  wrote:

Around the late 70's and early eighties the 20's and 39's were all getting
new, deeper rudders.  The swept back keels didn't / don't help.



Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight
veinot
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:48 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm



I don't think it will ever sail as good as the MKI but there are other
advantages




Dwight Veinot

Alianna
C&C 35 MKII

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS



On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Robert Gallagher 
wrote:

My 30MKI had the mast raked back and the rigging on the tight side. 
Weather

helm yes, it could be a bear. Round ups never.  I could bury the rail deep
and just keep plowing along.
My 30MKII's rudder will stall then round up out of control with to much
sail
up and not enough tension on the backstay.  Too much heel and it gets
scary.

All that being said im still learning on my MKII


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  _

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm

[Andrew Burton]

Good point about sails changing the feel, Gary. A blown out main or jib, with 
the max draft at the battens will move the apparent center of effort way aft.
On the other hand, my crew is so tough, they don't even know how to reef!

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Nov 29, 2013, at 14:16, "Gary Nylander"  wrote:

> I'm with Curtis on this one. I seldom reef because we are mostly in light 
> air. I drop from the 155 to the 140 when there are full whitecaps (15?) and 
> then reef at about 20. Don't have a second reef, so if it is blowing harder 
> than low 20's, I go to the working jib.
> 
> My working jib is probably original to the boat (1980) - when I bought her, 
> it was very new feeling (crinkly) and seldom gets out of the bag.it is a 
> Hood, which I understand was original equipment. The two PO's were up a river 
> 10 miles from the Bay, so I think there was a fair amount of light air 
> sailing - and motoring.
> 
> There's something amiss if you have to reef at 10 knots - either your sails 
> are so bagged out that the boat is falling over or the mast is set 
> incorrectly. The 30-1 is a stout craft it takes a lot of breeze to get it 
> squirrely enough that I am worried about rounding up.
> 
> Gary
> 30-1 # 593
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Curtis" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
> 
> 
> yea i'm with Ddwight on this one,
> My C&C30 mk1 # 675 loves 11 thru17 knots.
> I dont start thinking of a reef till i'm over 17 knots. I usley drop
> down to the working 115% first. If needed I will put the 1st Reef in
> around 18-22 knots.
> I have hade some uncontroled steering falling off the wind when
> tacking. that was my fault. not the boat.
> 
> 1981 C&C 30 MK1 #675
> 
> Beaufort, Sc.
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/26/13, dwight  wrote:
>> I don't think you should have to reef that soon.what is the rake on your
>> mast
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  _
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Aaron
>> Rouhi
>> Sent: November 26, 2013 7:31 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> MK1 is stiff for sure but I just wish I had less weather helm. I generally
>> reef in anything above 10 knots...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Aaron R.
>> 
>> Admiral Maggie,
>> 
>> 1979 C&C 30 MK1 #540
>> 
>> Annapolis, MD
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  _
>> 
>> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:46:07 -0400
>> From: dwight...@gmail.com
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
>> 
>> The 30 MKI is just a much stiffer boat than the 30 MKII; see here:
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/technical/stability.htm
>> 
>> I believe that makes a huge difference in how these 2 very different C&C 30
>> designs perform going to weather, I believe this definitely has an effect
>> on
>> heel angle and propensity to round up...I would expect the 30 MKII to
>> outperform the 30 MKI in light air but in heavier air I would expect the
>> MKI
>> to outperform the MKII, even given that in most areas the MKII has a higher
>> rated speed potential and I believ that is due to the relative stiffnesses
>> of the boats...here on St. Margaret's Bay where we have mostly fresher
>> afternoon breezes the MKI rules
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dwight Veinot
>> 
>> Alianna
>> C&C 35 MKII
>> 
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Bill Coleman  wrote:
>> 
>> Around the late 70's and early eighties the 20's and 39's were all getting
>> new, deeper rudders.  The swept back keels didn't / don't help.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Bill Coleman
>> 
>> C&C 39 animated_favicon1
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight
>> veinot
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:48 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I don't think it will ever sail as good as the MKI but there are other
>> advantages
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dwight Veinot
>> 
>> Alianna
>> C&C 35 MKII
>> 
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Robert Gallagher 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> My 30MKI had the mast raked back and the rigging on the tight side. Weather
>> helm yes, it could be a bear. Round ups never.  I could bury the rail deep
>> and just keep plowing along.
>> My 30MKII's rudder will stall then round up out of control with to much
>> sail
>> up and not enough tension on the backstay.  Too much heel and it gets
>> scary.
>> 
>> All that being said im still learning on my MKII
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC

Re: Stus-List Winterizing - putting oil in the intake

[niall buckley]

Hi Rick,
Thank you for that helpful article.
I have a question for you. Really, I should be able to figure the answer out
based on all of the back and forth on winterizing. Anyway, here is the
question.
My engine is a 35 HP Yanmar. I live in Nova Scotia where the winters are
relatively mild by Canadian standards. However, once in a while they can be
brutal.
My winterizing has always been very simple ; remove hose from raw water
intake, point it to the sky,
insert funnel, start engine and pour about 2 gallons of plumbers
anti-freeze into
the hose (which goes to the impeller), end of story.
Rick, I've done this, for several years and it's worked just fine. Should I
be worrying about
getting the engine up to temperature (is this even possible, out of the
water, with no load
on the engine ?), so as to allow anti-freeze into the engine block.
Then, there's all the comments about getting water into the block.

Can you help me with this ?


On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Rick Brass  wrote:

> Since your reply is to Joshes comment about getting water into an engine
> by cranking it too long, I presume that is what your friend did.
>
>
>
> There are two typical was for water intrusion to seize a diesel engine:
>
>
>
> Corrosion - Normally the flow of compressed vapor in the cylinders will
> keep water from going from the exhaust manifold to the cylinder while the
> engine is cranking. After the engine stops cranking, water can drain back
> through the exhaust valve into the cylinder and cause the piston rings to
> corrode to the cylinder walls and seize the engine over time. The cure,
> unfortunately, is to disassemble the engine, hone the cylinders (or replace
> the liners if they are part of the design), and replace the rings,
> bearings, seals, etc. Often, rebuilding with  a new short block is more
> cost effective than a piece by piece rebuild.
>
>
>
> Hydraulic Lock - If your friend got water into the exhaust manifold by
> cranking, then stopped cranking, and the engine “seized” when he started
> cranking again, the problem is probably an hydraulic lock and not
> corrosion. Incompressible liquid gets into a cylinder or two and when the
> piston moves upwards it reaches a point where the crankshaft can no longer
> turn. There is a slight chance of this happening when an engine is cranked
> too long with the compression released. A starter is usually not strong
> enough to actually break any engine components, but the engine will be
> locked up by hydraulic pressure in the cylinders. The solution here is to
> pull the cylinder head (the quicker the better) remove the liquid, spray in
> a bit of fogging oil to lube the cylinders, reinstall the head, and retime
> the injection pump. Not a pretty thing to do, but less expensive than a
> rebuild.
>
>
>
> From my perspective as a Yanmar, Perkins, Cummins industrial engine
> maintenance trainer, and a former certified Cummins diesel technician, I’d
> like to comment on the practice of putting liquid oil (diesel, motor, or
> Marvel Mystery) into the intake manifold before first startup in the spring.
>
>
>
> Don’t do it. It only takes an ounce or so getting into through an intake
> valve into a cylinder to cause an hydraulic lock. And if you only put a
> tablespoon or so into the air intake, realistically, none of the oil is
> going to make it into the cylinders before startup.
>
>
>
> It would not be a bad practice to spray a small bit of fogging oil into
> the intake as you crank the engine for the first time. The atomized oil
> will be drawn past the intake valves to lube valve guides and upper
> cylinder walls, but the quantity will not be enough to cause hydraulic lock.
>
>
>
> Actually, putting in the fogging oil (a couple of cranks of the engine
> with fuel cutoff, while spraying oil into the intake) as a last step in the
> layup process makes more sense than fogging at first startup.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve
> Thomas
> *Sent:* Friday, November 29, 2013 10:09 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>
>
>
> A friend of mine managed to seize the engine in an almost unused diesel
> generator that way. It would not budge either way immediately afterwards,
> in spite of big wrenches and much grunting. Don't know yet what broke. He
> filled it with oil and has left it sitting.
>
>
>
> Steve Thomas
>
> C&C27 MKIII
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ]*On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley
> *Sent:* Friday, November 29, 2013 4:38 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winterizing
>
>
> 
>
>
>  " As advised recently one needs to be conscientious not to roll it too
> long or sea water can back up in the exhaust and damage the engine. "
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&

Re: Stus-List Winterizing - putting oil in the intake

[sam . c . salter]

Is it freshwater or raw water cooled. (Has it got a heat exchanger? )sam :-)   From: niall buckleySent: Friday, November 29, 2013 2:01 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing - putting oil in the intakeHi Rick,Thank you for that helpful article.I have a question for you. Really, I should be able to figure the answer outbased on all of the back and forth on winterizing. Anyway, here is the question.
My engine is a 35 HP Yanmar. I live in Nova Scotia where the winters arerelatively mild by Canadian standards. However, once in a while they can be brutal.My winterizing has always been very simple ; remove hose from raw water intake, point it to the sky,
insert funnel, start engine and pour about 2 gallons of plumbers anti-freeze intothe hose (which goes to the impeller), end of story.Rick, I've done this, for several years and it's worked just fine. Should I be worrying about
getting the engine up to temperature (is this even possible, out of the water, with no loadon the engine ?), so as to allow anti-freeze into the engine block.Then, there's all the comments about getting water into the block.
Can you help me with this ?On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Rick Brass  wrote:
Since your reply is to Joshes comment about getting water into an engine by cranking it too long, I presume that is what your friend did. 
 There are two typical was for water intrusion to seize a diesel engine:
 Corrosion - Normally the flow of compressed vapor in the cylinders will keep water from going from the exhaust manifold to the cylinder while the engine is cranking. After the engine stops cranking, water can drain back through the exhaust valve into the cylinder and cause the piston rings to corrode to the cylinder walls and seize the engine over time. The cure, unfortunately, is to disassemble the engine, hone the cylinders (or replace the liners if they are part of the design), and replace the rings, bearings, seals, etc. Often, rebuilding with  a new short block is more cost effective than a piece by piece rebuild. 
 Hydraulic Lock - If your friend got water into the exhaust manifold by cranking, then stopped cranking, and the engine “seized” when he started cranking again, the problem is probably an hydraulic lock and not corrosion. Incompressible liquid gets into a cylinder or two and when the piston moves upwards it reaches a point where the crankshaft can no longer turn. There is a slight chance of this happening when an engine is cranked too long with the compression released. A starter is usually not strong enough to actually break any engine components, but the engine will be locked up by hydraulic pressure in the cylinders. The solution here is to pull the cylinder head (the quicker the better) remove the liquid, spray in a bit of fogging oil to lube the cylinders, reinstall the head, and retime the injection pump. Not a pretty thing to do, but less expensive than a rebuild.
 From my perspective as a Yanmar, Perkins, Cummins industrial engine maintenance trainer, and a former certified Cummins diesel technician, I’d like to comment on the practice of putting liquid oil (diesel, motor, or Marvel Mystery) into the intake manifold before first startup in the spring.
 Don’t do it. It only takes an ounce or so getting into through an intake valve into a cylinder to cause an hydraulic lock. And if you only put a tablespoon or so into the air intake, realistically, none of the oil is going to make it into the cylinders before startup.
 It would not be a bad practice to spray a small bit of fogging oil into the intake as you crank the engine for the first time. The atomized oil will be drawn past the intake valves to lube valve guides and upper cylinder walls, but the quantity will not be enough to cause hydraulic lock.
 Actually, putting in the fogging oil (a couple of cranks of the engine with fuel cutoff, while spraying oil into the intake) as a last step in the layup process makes more sense than fogging at first startup.
  
Rick BrassWashington, NC
  
  
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:09 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing
 A friend of mine managed to seize the engine in an almost unused diesel generator that way. It would not budge either way immediately afterwards, in spite of big wrenches and much grunting. Don't know yet what broke. He filled it wi

Stus-List Hull numbers for other 35 MkII boats Another serial no. found

[Alex Giannelia]

Today, I saw CCY352970674 in Whitby Ontario, Canada
So, what is the known list up to in this group?  I think it would be a neat 
thing on the WEB site.

Cheers!

Alex
__
Alexander M. Giannelia, B.A.A.
President
THE AIRBORNE SENSING CORPORATION
912-555 Richmond Street West
P.O. Box 1008
TORONTO, Ontario
CANADA, M5V 3B1

Office:  +1(416) 203-9858
Fax:   +1(416) 203-9843
Mobile:+1(416) 529-0070

a...@airsensing.com
www.airsensing.com

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Re: Stus-List Hull numbers for other 35 MkII boats Another serial no.found

[dwight]

Alex

 

Including yours and mine, I have six 35 MKII's on the list so far

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Giannelia
Sent: November 29, 2013 5:52 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Hull numbers for other 35 MkII boats Another serial
no.found

 

Today, I saw CCY352970674 in Whitby Ontario, Canada

So, what is the known list up to in this group?  I think it would be a neat
thing on the WEB site.

 

Cheers!

 

Alex

__

Alexander M. Giannelia, B.A.A.

President

THE AIRBORNE SENSING CORPORATION

912-555 Richmond Street West

P.O. Box 1008

TORONTO, Ontario

CANADA, M5V 3B1

 

Office:  +1(416) 203-9858

Fax:   +1(416) 203-9843

Mobile:+1(416) 529-0070

 

a...@airsensing.com

www.airsensing.com

 

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6377 - Release Date: 11/29/13

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Re: Stus-List Winterizing - was oil - now raw water vs. fresh water

[Rick Brass]

Niall;

 

Whether you need to bring your Yanmar engine up to temperature before
putting in antifreeze depends on whether the engine is raw water cooled or
fresh water cooled.

 

In a raw water cooled engine, water from outside of the boat (raw water) is
pumped through the engine block and cylinder head to cool the engine, then
to the exhaust riser to cool the hot exhaust gas, and is then forced through
the muffler and out of the exhaust outlet by exhaust pressure. The operating
temperature of the engine is governed by the thermostat, which stays closed
until the engine reaches operating temperature - generally 165 F - 180 F for
a diesel. There is a bypass (which may simply be a small hole drilled in the
thermostat or a small passage cast in the thermostat housing) that permits a
small amount of cooling water to "bypass" the thermostat and flow through
the engine to prevent hot spots and cool the exhaust gasses.

 

You need to bring a raw water cooled engine up to operating temperature for
the thermostat to open so you can get antifreeze into the engine block.

 

A fresh water cooled engine has antifreeze/coolant in the engine block
already, and a "fresh" water pump circulates the coolant through the block
and head, on to a heat exchanger where it is cooled, and then back to the
water pump. A second "raw" water pump brings water from outside the boat,
sends it to the heat exchanger, and then to the exhaust riser, muffler and
exhaust hose & outlet. The plumbing of a fresh water cooled engine is just
like your car engine, with the heat exchanger taking the place of the car's
radiator and using cool water instead of cool air to cool down the hot
coolant.

 

Since there is already antifreeze in the block of a Fresh water cooled
engine and the thermostat has nothing to do with the flow of raw water,
there is no need to heat up the engine. You only need to start it so the raw
water impeller can pump antifreeze through the heat exchanger and exhaust.

 

Your mention of "Plumbers" antifreeze brings up something else that everyone
should consider.

 

Plumbers Antifreeze is propylene glycol. It is intended for use in potable
water systems (water tanks, hoses, etc) because it is safe for human
consumption. It is commonly used in sink traps and drains because it does
not expand as it gets colder (unlike water) and will not break pipes.
Plumbers antifreeze does not freeze, it turns into a gelatinous slurry at
reduced temperature. So there is no "freeze point", but there is an
"expansion point" at about -50 F (-45 C) when the jelly starts to expand and
may break pipes or burst hoses. Now the -50 F expansion point is for 100%
propylene glycol. If it mixed with water in the system, the expansion point
can be quite a bit higher depending on the concentration. (IIRC, a 50% mix
of water and plumbers antifreeze starts to expand around 0 F.)

 

Plumbers antifreeze also breaks down when exposed to heat (say much above
100 F) and should never be used for coolant in an engine.

 

Conventional antifreeze is ethylene glycol and water mixed together. A 50/50
mix results in a freezing point of -34 F (-37C), and a mix of 70% glycol/30%
water freezes at -90 F (-68 C). (How you can mix something that freezes at
32 F with something else that freezes around 0 F and get a solution that
freezes at -35 F is one of those things I learned in high school chemistry
class but never fully understood. Guess that why I was an ME not a Chemical
Engineer.) Conventional antifreeze has anticorrosive ingredients, lubricants
for the water pump, and sometimes leak inhibitors as part of the mix. That
would be the preferred antifreeze/coolant for an engine.

 

I'd wager that your 35hp Yanmar is a fresh water cooled engine, most recent
diesels are. Yanmar is pretty nice about putting an "F" in the nomenclature
for fresh water cooled engines (3QMF30, or 2GM20F) so that may tell you what
you have. The presence of 2 water pumps (a conventional belt driven pump on
the front of the engine plus a Sherwood or Jabsco raw water pump driven by a
second belt or a drive off the camshaft) is an indicater. Or you might look
for a heat exchanger (though I think a lot of Yanmars have the heat
exchanger coils integral in the exhaust manifold, instead of in a separate
unit outside the engine.).

 

I hope this answers your question, and doesn't bore you enough that you want
to drink some ethylene glycol and end it all.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of niall
buckley
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 4:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing - putting oil in the intake

 

Hi Rick,

Thank you for that helpful article.

I have a question for you. Really, I should be able to figure the answer out

based on all of the back and forth on winterizing. Anyway, here is the
question.

My engine is a 35 HP Yanmar. I live in Nova Scotia where the winters are

relatively mild b

Stus-List Winterizing Touche'

[Dennis C.]

Although I don't have a set procedure for winterizing Touche', here are some of 
the things I do:

Check the expiration date on the sunscreen.  If it will expire before spring, I 
remove it from the boat
Switch the air conditioner from "Cool" to "Heat"
Check expiration dates on mixers.  If close to expiration, mix them with the 
appropriate liquor and drink
Stow the blender.  No frozen drinks until April

Take the swim trunks used for cleaning the bottom home for the laundry
Remove the Admiral's wide brimmed straw hat from the boat
Remove my Panama Jack straw hat from the boat
Stow flip flops and sandals


Finally, go for a sail.

As always, listers are welcome to go for a sail anytime they are in the New 
Orleans area.  Next week looks nice, 70's to near 80.  As the Cajuns say "bring 
yourself on down and pass a good time."


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List FW: vacation

[Russ & Melody]

Hi Fred,

That sound really good.

I recently spent an evening presentation with the local Blue Water 
Carousing associasses regarding a trip back, up coast. The couple 
took the time and harbour-hopped back to B.C. inna 37' Ericson or 
something like that.


I know from racing on a C&C 45 that going to weather in anything 
under 20 knots is mostly pleasant. Like I expect the coast to be if 
you're early in the season, before June/July when things really heat 
up. (When does the Baja really heat up?)


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1



At 08:16 AM 29/11/2013, you wrote:

Thanks Russ.  It is good to be back after spending 6 weeks at 
sea.   The cruise was delivery from Portland, Or to San 
Diego.  About 1100 miles.   We then participated with about 130 
other boats in the Baja Ha Ha  rally to Cabo San Lucas.  About 850 
miles. We were fortunate enough to win our class.  From there we 
cruised around the tip of the Baja to La Paz.   Another 150 
miles.  So after about 2100 miles Fury is safely moored in La 
Paz.   I expect to go back to La Paz in Feb./Mar. to cruise with my 
family.   In March we will be cruising to Puerto Villarta  where 
will participate in the cruisers Banderas Bay regatta.  After that 
we will cruise back to La Paz.   In late April the plan is to begin 
the delivery cruise back to Portland.  Because of the notorious 
northwest winds known as the Baja bash many of my friends are 
recommending that we sail home via Hawaii.   Not sure about that, as 
it is 2000 miles longer.


Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C&C 44
Portland, OR

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
Russ & Melody

Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 8:04 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List FW: vacation

Welcome back Fred.

We missed you.

I hope you had a pleasant cruise.

Cheers, Russ


At 05:09 AM 28/11/2013, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="=_NextPart_000_0001_01CEEBF8.0F2F06C0"
Content-Language: en-us

Stu:  I am back from by cruise.  Please restore me to the list.

Thanks

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury
Portland, Or

From: Fred Hazzard [ mailto:fredhazz...@spiritone.com]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 10:43 AM
To: 'Stu'
Subject: vacation

Stu, please put me on hold for receiving  forum emails.   As I 
mentioned earlier I am leaving for Mexico and will be out of touch 
for the next 6 weeks.


Thanks

Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C&C 44
Portland, OR

PS:  When the decals arrive I will have one of my crew members who 
are meeting  me in San Diego bring them to me.

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Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm

[Jim Watts]

Although I hate to mention it, I have seen people having a huge amount of
trouble with weather helm because their boom was held on center by a
backstay-mounted topping lift, amongst other things.
To the original poster: I don't mean to sound out of line here, but have
you had an experienced sailor out with you to give you some feedback on
your setup?


On 29 November 2013 12:21, Andrew Burton  wrote:

> Good point about sails changing the feel, Gary. A blown out main or jib,
> with the max draft at the battens will move the apparent center of effort
> way aft.
> On the other hand, my crew is so tough, they don't even know how to reef!
>
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
>
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI
> USA02840
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
>
> On Nov 29, 2013, at 14:16, "Gary Nylander" 
> wrote:
>
> > I'm with Curtis on this one. I seldom reef because we are mostly in
> light air. I drop from the 155 to the 140 when there are full whitecaps
> (15?) and then reef at about 20. Don't have a second reef, so if it is
> blowing harder than low 20's, I go to the working jib.
> >
> > My working jib is probably original to the boat (1980) - when I bought
> her, it was very new feeling (crinkly) and seldom gets out of the
> bag.it is a Hood, which I understand was original equipment. The two
> PO's were up a river 10 miles from the Bay, so I think there was a fair
> amount of light air sailing - and motoring.
> >
> > There's something amiss if you have to reef at 10 knots - either your
> sails are so bagged out that the boat is falling over or the mast is set
> incorrectly. The 30-1 is a stout craft it takes a lot of breeze to get
> it squirrely enough that I am worried about rounding up.
> >
> > Gary
> > 30-1 # 593
> >
> > - Original Message - From: "Curtis" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
> >
> >
> > yea i'm with Ddwight on this one,
> > My C&C30 mk1 # 675 loves 11 thru17 knots.
> > I dont start thinking of a reef till i'm over 17 knots. I usley drop
> > down to the working 115% first. If needed I will put the 1st Reef in
> > around 18-22 knots.
> > I have hade some uncontroled steering falling off the wind when
> > tacking. that was my fault. not the boat.
> >
> > 1981 C&C 30 MK1 #675
> >
> > Beaufort, Sc.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/26/13, dwight  wrote:
> >> I don't think you should have to reef that soon.what is the rake on your
> >> mast
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  _
> >>
> >> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> Aaron
> >> Rouhi
> >> Sent: November 26, 2013 7:31 PM
> >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> >> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> MK1 is stiff for sure but I just wish I had less weather helm. I
> generally
> >> reef in anything above 10 knots...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Aaron R.
> >>
> >> Admiral Maggie,
> >>
> >> 1979 C&C 30 MK1 #540
> >>
> >> Annapolis, MD
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  _
> >>
> >> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:46:07 -0400
> >> From: dwight...@gmail.com
> >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> >> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
> >>
> >> The 30 MKI is just a much stiffer boat than the 30 MKII; see here:
> >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/technical/stability.htm
> >>
> >> I believe that makes a huge difference in how these 2 very different
> C&C 30
> >> designs perform going to weather, I believe this definitely has an
> effect
> >> on
> >> heel angle and propensity to round up...I would expect the 30 MKII to
> >> outperform the 30 MKI in light air but in heavier air I would expect the
> >> MKI
> >> to outperform the MKII, even given that in most areas the MKII has a
> higher
> >> rated speed potential and I believ that is due to the relative
> stiffnesses
> >> of the boats...here on St. Margaret's Bay where we have mostly fresher
> >> afternoon breezes the MKI rules
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dwight Veinot
> >>
> >> Alianna
> >> C&C 35 MKII
> >>
> >> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Bill Coleman 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Around the late 70's and early eighties the 20's and 39's were all
> getting
> >> new, deeper rudders.  The swept back keels didn't / don't help.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bill Coleman
> >>
> >> C&C 39 animated_favicon1
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> dwight
> >> veinot
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:48 PM
> >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> >> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't think it will ever sail as good as the MKI but there are other
> >> advantages
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dwight Veinot
> >>
> >> Alianna
> >> C&C 35 MKII
> >>
> >> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Robert Gallagher 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> My 30MKI had the mast raked back and the rigging on the tight side.
>