date:20121113

MArk

Where did you get the sleeves for this?

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:33 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung

Rick,

With a quick look I can't see any evidence of those holes, but they are 
probably covered over with crud and bottom paint.  I did notice the bottom half 
is not entirely hollow.  There are a couple strips of plywood stacked on top of 
each other running down the middle of the rudder, primary purpose probably to 
adhere the halves together.  The salvage rudder seems to want to split at the 
seam, but of course, it underwent some serious abuse which is why it's broken 
in half.

Those holes would allow the rudder the drain when the boat is hauled, but they 
would also allow it to fill with water when the boat is launched.  That would 
take care of the buoyancy issue.  

When I sleeved the gudgeons last year, I used flanged bushings.  I was trying 
to figure out by looking at the wear pattern which gudgeon actually supports 
the weight of the rudder, the single upper or the lower double.  There was some 
wear on most of the faces.  I think the upper gudgeon supports my rudder when 
the boat is out of the water, but in the water, the rudder floats a bit and may 
be restrained by the lower double gudgeon.  The fact that the rudder floats, 
combined with the slop in the gudgeons, is what lead to the constant clunking.  
With the sleeved gudgeons, the clunk is gone.  (Now if I can just restrain that 
wire inside the mast, I might be able to sleep on my boat!)

Mark

- Original Message -
From: Rick Taillieu 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:19:59 - (UTC)
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung

Hi Mark,

The 25's fibreglass rudder is made in 2 halves bonded together.

There is wood laminated in the upper part, ending about 1-1½" below the lower 
gudgeon plate, below that it's hollow.

There is a small hole right at the base of the "L" where the rudder extends 
forward and one at the very bottom of the blade.

This lets the water drain out when the boat is hauled and it's very important 
to keep them open especially if you are in an area that freezes.

The 24's rudder might be made in the same way, I'm not sure.

I might be interested in a few things off your salvage boat, contact me off 
list and we'll talk.

Cheers

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25  #371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G
Sent: November-11-12 4:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung

The transom-hung rudders are a different discussion altogether, but I learned 
something recently and want to add it to the collective knowledge of the list.

The earlier of the 25 Mk1's came from the factory with laminated wood rudders, 
which is what my '73 hull #79 has.  (Check out some of my previous posts about 
trying to maintain / preserve it.)

I recently salvaged '74 25 hull #301.  What follows is all based on the 
assumption that this boat had its original rudder.  This later rudder 
configuration is probably common to the 24, later 25 Mk1 and 25 Mk2.  27 Mk5 
could be the same, don't know.  After the owner cut off the keel, he removed 
the stands, dropped the boat on its hull, and broke the rudder approximately in 
half.  (I advised him that the used rudder was probably worth at least what he 
got for the lead keel, $0.60/lb, ~1800 lbs.)  

I was surprised to see that the salvaged fiberglass rudder is hollow.  (Hollow 
as in you can stick a broom handle in it and freely move it back and forth.)  
The fiberglass is only about 1/4" thick.  I guess I was expecting thicker 
fiberglass, or foam filled, something like that.  The top half of the rudder is 
hollow to a point, and then the upper third or so appears to be solid.  My 
guess is that it's a laminated wood stub, either painted or glassed over.   

This helps to explain this thread I came across recently about how much the 25 
rudder can flex:

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=113193

Without a doubt, this rudder is lighter than my laminated wood rudder.  (I've 
had my rudder off 3 out of 6 years I've owned my boat.  I've carried it around 
a lot!)  I also find this surprising, since you'd think the weight of a 
transom-hung rudder would be critical to the balance of the boat.

By the way, I took the pieces of broken rudder, thinking they might be useful 
to someone trying to build a mold, etc.  Contact me off list if you're 
interested.  Yours for the cost of shipping, might be cheaper to ship the two 
pieces separately!

Mark

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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Taras
 
Back to one of your roriginal questions
 
2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.
Should this affect the handicap?
 
In most areas moving genoa tracks and other gear on the decks has no
affect on handicap.  In our area (Nova Scotia) it does not.  As a matter
of fact last Spring I installed an additional jib track on our J27 that
was on the deck rather than coach roof to open the slot when sailing
with #3 in windier conditions.  This has no effect on rating as is the
same as barber hauling or if more inboard then inhauling ...  which we
are supoposed to be doing anyway.  The outboard track did have a very
positive effect on boat handling this Fall when the wind came up.  We
now have three tracks on each side .. 2 forward and one aft for the #2 &
#1
 
Mike
 



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TARAS
IWANYCKI
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:58 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating


I have a general question about boat dynamics and related phrf rating 
I have been racing against a Frers33 this season, a first-time boat
owner with green crew, that cleaned up and won almost everything in all
conditions
Many of us are asking whether is handicap was correct.
The OD rating for the boat is 114 and the owner claimed this for the
season
This boat had it's keel depth shortened by 6-8 inches and added a bulb
to equal the lost keel weight.  From what I understand, if you add a
bulb to your keel, it will stiffen the boat's feelcorrect? But...
1) What impact would cutting the keel down and adding a bulb to offset
the lost ballast do?  Would she be faster? slower?  Point higher? Lower?
2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.
Should this affect the handicap?
3) What is the official way of determining the correct handicap? Is
there an official body to address?

Thanks
Taras
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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

2012-11-13 Thread David Risch

Taras,

If I were to buy a "PHRF-Beater"  (a boat that easily or more easily sails to 
its rating)  it would be a Frers XX (take your choice).

Very anecdotal of course, but I have been told, and witnessed myself, that as a 
baseline, they seem to have a good rating for their speed.   

My 2 cents...   

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:25:21 -0400
From: mike.h...@impgroup.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating








Taras
 
Back to one of your roriginal questions
 

2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail. 
 Should this affect the handicap?
 
In most areas 
moving genoa tracks and other gear on the decks has no affect on handicap.  
In our area (Nova Scotia) it does not.  As a matter of fact last Spring I 
installed an additional jib track on our J27 that was on the deck rather than 
coach roof to open the slot when sailing with #3 in windier 
conditions.  This has no effect on rating as is the same as barber hauling 
or if more inboard then inhauling ...  which we are supoposed to be doing 
anyway.  The outboard track did have a very positive effect on boat 
handling this Fall when the wind came up.  We now have three tracks on 
each side .. 2 forward and one aft for the #2 & #1
 
Mike
 



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] 
On Behalf Of TARAS IWANYCKI
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 
8:58 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel 
mods vs Phrf Rating



I have a general question about boat dynamics and related phrf 
rating
I have been racing against a Frers33 this season, a first-time boat owner 
with green crew, that cleaned up and won almost everything in all 
conditions
Many of us are asking whether is handicap was correct.
The OD rating for the boat is 114 and the 
owner claimed this for the season
This boat had it's keel depth shortened by 6-8 inches and added a bulb to 
equal the lost keel weight.  From what I understand, if you add a bulb to 
your keel, it will stiffen the boat's feelcorrect? But...
1) What impact would cutting the keel down and adding a bulb to offset the 
lost ballast do?  Would she be faster? slower?  Point higher? 
Lower?
2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail. 
 Should this affect the handicap?
3) What is the official way of determining the correct handicap? Is there 
an official body to address?


Thanks
Taras

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Re: Stus-List Heaving-to

2012-11-13 Thread Della Barba, Joe

Huge steep confused seas that could roll the boat, when you're in the Gulf 
Stream, etc...

That was us. Say 15 foot waves from one direction on top of 10 foot swells from 
another. You got kind of random combinations of 
little-medium-medium-big-breaker that hit the spreaders on the way down.
If I were shorthanded I think we would have towed some stuff to slow us down 
and turned off the wind for New York or Newport.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina C&C 35 MK I

Btw - 50 foot seas? OUCH!!!

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Burton
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM
To: j...@dellabarba.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Heaving-to

Yeah...there are times when heaving to is the wrong answer; Huge steep confused 
seas that could roll the boat, when you're in the Gulf Stream, etc. In that 
case I would trail warps or a drogue and run under bare poles with someone 
steering. Did that for a couple of days once in the same area on an older yawl 
with the breeze gusting to 90 and 50-foot seas. We had to literally lash 
ourselves to the mizzen while driving so the waves pooping the boat would wash 
us away from the wheel. I figure Hornblower would have done the same thing!
Andy
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Joe Della Barba 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>> wrote:
That is kind of what I meant - maybe I worded it wrong.
When we had 50 knots coming home from Bermuda, we had 5 on board and decided to 
push for top speed. We got about 170 miles the first non-to-noon and 180 the 
next.
Heaving-to would have been a nice way to get some rest if needed, but we could 
survive either way. I think a true "survival storm" would be too much for my 
fin-keel boat to heave to in.
YMMV and all

Joe Della Barba
j...@dellabarba.com

From: Andrew Burton 
[mailto:a.burton.sai...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:07 AM
To: j...@dellabarba.com; 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Heaving-to
Joe, heaving to is very much in use as a storm/survival tactic. I've more than 
once sat out 50-knot winds halfway between Bermuda and New England while hove 
to. The contrast between trying to make way in that stuff and sitting under the 
dodger with a cup of tea while hove to is remarkable. And it gives you time to 
enjoy some alpine scenery, too!

Andrew Burton

Newport, RI

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Joe Della Barba 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>> wrote:
My boat heaves to quite well under main and jib. All I have to do is tack,
not release the jib sheet, let the sail back on the new tack, and then turn
the boat hard to windward.
It is quite useful to "park" for a bit, but not much used anymore as a storm
survival tactic. If you can still do that, you can likely sail someplace
too.

Joe Della Barba
j...@dellabarba.com
Coquina C&C 35 MK I

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Colin
Kilgour
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 4:04 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Heaving-to

I agree with Dwight.  You should be able to heave to with any headsail,
because conditions may require it.

That said, I prefer not to have my headsail backing against the spreaders,
so I prefer rolling up to no more than a 110 or so before heaving to.

Cheers
Colin

On 11/10/12, Marek Fluder mailto:mar...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> On my 24 I need to reduce the headsail to a handkerchief.
> Otherwise main and tiller are not able to keep it balanced.
> I think it's because my boat is not heavy and freeboard helps pushing
> the bow down.
>
> Marek Fluder
> C&C24 "Emilie"
> Hamilton Harbour, ON
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Mark G 
> mailto:mjg...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>>
>> After 6 years of experimenting on an infrequent basis I was finally
>> able to easily and repeatedly heave-to my 25 Mk1 this year.  I sail
>> with a 135-140% Genoa on a furler.  On the day everything clicked it
>> was furled to about 100-110%.  Since then, I have made furling the
>> Genoa to 100-110% the first step of heaving-to.  It makes sense to me
>> that, since heaving-to is all about balancing the sails, sail area
>> forward would be a significant factor.  But on a boat without a
>> furler this can't be accomplished without a sail change, etc.  So I'm
>> thinking the same thing might be accomplished by positioning the main
>> sail with the sheet or the traveler.  Can anybody weigh in on their
>> experience, particularly with the 25 Mk1?
>>
>> Mark
>>
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Re: Stus-List Heaving-to

2012-11-13 Thread Andrew Burton

The 50' seas were spectacular! Brilliant sunshine and the big seas made
like being in the mountains. Mind you, it's something I never want to
experience again!
Andy

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Della Barba, Joe
wrote:

> Huge steep confused seas that could roll the boat, when you're in the Gulf
> Stream, etc………..
>
> ** **
>
> That was us. Say 15 foot waves from one direction on top of 10 foot swells
> from another. You got kind of random combinations of
> little-medium-medium-big-breaker that hit the spreaders on the way down.**
> **
>
> If I were shorthanded I think we would have towed some stuff to slow us
> down and turned off the wind for New York or Newport.
>
> ** **
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Coquina C&C 35 MK I*
>
> * *
>
> *Btw – 50 foot seas? OUCH!!!*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrew
> Burton
> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM
>
> *To:* j...@dellabarba.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Heaving-to
>
> ** **
>
> Yeah...there are times when heaving to is the wrong answer; Huge steep
> confused seas that could roll the boat, when you're in the Gulf Stream,
> etc. In that case I would trail warps or a drogue and run under bare poles
> with someone steering. Did that for a couple of days once in the same area
> on an older yawl with the breeze gusting to 90 and 50-foot seas. We had to
> literally lash ourselves to the mizzen while driving so the waves pooping
> the boat would wash us away from the wheel. I figure Hornblower would have
> done the same thing!
> Andy
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Joe Della Barba 
> wrote:
>
> That is kind of what I meant - maybe I worded it wrong.
>
> When we had 50 knots coming home from Bermuda, we had 5 on board and
> decided to push for top speed. We got about 170 miles the first non-to-noon
> and 180 the next.
>
> Heaving-to would have been a nice way to get some rest if needed, but we
> could survive either way. I think a true "survival storm" would be too much
> for my fin-keel boat to heave to in.
>
> YMMV and all
>
>  
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> j...@dellabarba.com
>
>  
>
> ** **
> --
>
> *From:* Andrew Burton [mailto:a.burton.sai...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2012 10:07 AM
> *To:* j...@dellabarba.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Heaving-to
>
> Joe, heaving to is very much in use as a storm/survival tactic. I've more
> than once sat out 50-knot winds halfway between Bermuda and New England
> while hove to. The contrast between trying to make way in that stuff and
> sitting under the dodger with a cup of tea while hove to is remarkable. And
> it gives you time to enjoy some alpine scenery, too!
>
> Andrew Burton
>
> Newport, RI
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Joe Della Barba 
> wrote:
>
> My boat heaves to quite well under main and jib. All I have to do is tack,
> not release the jib sheet, let the sail back on the new tack, and then turn
> the boat hard to windward.
> It is quite useful to "park" for a bit, but not much used anymore as a
> storm
> survival tactic. If you can still do that, you can likely sail someplace
> too.
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
> j...@dellabarba.com
> Coquina C&C 35 MK I
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Colin
> Kilgour
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 4:04 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Heaving-to
>
> I agree with Dwight.  You should be able to heave to with any headsail,
> because conditions may require it.
>
> That said, I prefer not to have my headsail backing against the spreaders,
> so I prefer rolling up to no more than a 110 or so before heaving to.
>
> Cheers
> Colin
>
>
> On 11/10/12, Marek Fluder  wrote:
> > On my 24 I need to reduce the headsail to a handkerchief.
> > Otherwise main and tiller are not able to keep it balanced.
> > I think it's because my boat is not heavy and freeboard helps pushing
> > the bow down.
> >
> > Marek Fluder
> > C&C24 "Emilie"
> > Hamilton Harbour, ON
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Mark G  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> After 6 years of experimenting on an infrequent basis I was finally
> >> able to easily and repeatedly heave-to my 25 Mk1 this year.  I sail
> >> with a 135-140% Genoa on a furler.  On the day everything clicked it
> >> was furled to about 100-110%.  Since then, I have made furling the
> >> Genoa to 100-110% the first step of heaving-to.  It makes sense to me
> >> that, since heaving-to is all about balancing the sails, sail area
> >> forward would be a significant factor.  But on a boat without a
> >> furler this can't be accomplished without a sail change, etc.  So I'm
> >> thinking the same thing might be accomplished by positioning the main
> >> sail with the sheet or the tr

Re: Stus-List Fun comparing Phrf Ratings

2012-11-13 Thread Gary Nylander

You would enjoy our sailing. We have two series locally (not counting the 
bigger Bay races or all the stuff that goes on in Annapolis).
Generally light air and rather flat water. Our Wednesday group is divided into 
three classes, Stars (one design), A and B with the break at 150 PHRF. But we 
put J-24's in with the A, because they are good in light air.

The top boats in A are J-80, (120) Andrews 26 (141), Viper (111), J-105 (87). 
On a brisk night the Ericson 38 (114) goes well, especially if there is a good 
downwind run.

In B, we have a Thunderbird (198), Impulse 21 (182 with genoa), Morgan 30 
(204), and Bermuda 40 (174) with an 88 year old skipper and experienced crew, 
and the ex-Admiral on Penniless (30-1 - 174). A couple of years ago, she won it 
but the T-Bird and Impulse weren't playing, and lately the T-Bird has been 
dominant (but next year it looks like the Impulse will be a lot closer.

Plus, anyone can get 10% if they race non-spinnaker (some come out with less 
crew and do this - others wait until it is blowing hard and figure that surfing 
without spinnaker is less daring than broaching with one).

Our Saturday series is most of the same boats in one fleet with 15% benefit for 
non-spinnaker and 7 1/2 % for asyms tacked to the bow without a sprit or pole. 
The J-80 is still on top, but we have a J-70 which was just delivered and the 
Andrews guy is looking at Melges', so that should be interesting. But, in a 
recent race, a new boat to the fleet (Cal 33 (156)) beat everybody as there was 
a long spinnaker run - dead downwind - the B-40 and Bristol 35.5 did well too. 
Jibing downwind wasn't fast enough to make up for the extra distance for the 
sprit folks.

I agree, there is only one way (PHRF) to make this work - our friends from 
Oxford Maryland try to use the usual A,B,C PHRF breaks and they have tiny 
classes - two to four boats - so they do a "overall" trophy to make up for it. 
Makes for dull sailing.

Gary 
Penniless (JAM winner - separate series)
St. Michaels MD


  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck S 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:35 AM
  Subject: Stus-List Fun comparing Phrf Ratings


  The Frers 33 looks very interesting late 80's design.  Nice support group 
with 40 member boats in their class association.  Carrol Marine is a quality 
builder.   Photos show the boats are raced very competively with large crews.  
PHRF of 109 to 114.

  The J-30 is a late 70's design and a different boat entirely, 10% shorter, 
25% lighter, with 575 boats built with a base rating of 144, indicating a 
slower boat by today's standards.   Compare with a 1992 J-92 who's rating is 96 
and the fun begins.

  Our local PHRF fleet is small and we race with 5 boats non-spinnaker and 3 
boats in spinnaker fleet in usually 4 to 8 knots.  I race non-spin which 
includes the smallest, a 21 foot 3 man Viper 640, to a C&C 37+.  I think PHRF 
is our best choice, but it's rarely fair when the Viper sails at our speed just 
ahead of us around the course rating slower and we lose a place to a J28 that 
finishes 5 minutes after us.  That's PHRF.

  If I had a little money, I'd buy a Beneteau Figaro II rating 102.  If I had 
much money, I'd have an Open 60.   Go Vendee Globe!!   

  Still, I'm happy to own a beautiful C&C 34R.


  Chuck
  Resolute
  1990 C&C 34R
  Atlantic City, NJ


--
  From: "TARAS IWANYCKI" 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 7:12:13 AM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating


  Thanks Rick
  That is very much what played out this season.  I believe the handicap was 
111 and he got three seconds and dropped to 114 for the modification
  His modification did not adversely affect the boatshe is fast and points 
like crazy.  Often outpointing etchelles 
  We sail in Lake St-Louis / Montreal area, which is part of the St-Laurence 
River
  (My former boat was a C&C24.presently have a J30)


  That is the challenge in PHRF racing,the fleet can be very mixed.  In the 
first race of the club championship I managed to edge out the Frers to the 
windard mark and sat to windward of him for 1/2 the race. But he managed to get 
ahead by the leward mark and once he had clean air,...he was gone
  I read one review that had them in a class with faster boats and they 
performed poorly (did not have clean air) but became the top boat when they 
changed class and were in front of the fleet
  I guess I will have to pull up our socks or buy that C&C37+ I keep eyeing


  Thanks
  Taras
  Montreal,QC



--






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Stus-List Asymetrical Spinnaker

2012-11-13 Thread Alan Bergen

One of our yacht club members is a representative for Lee Sails. He has an 
A-sail that was built for a customer who chose not to buy it after he ordered 
it. The sail has a 53' luff, and is 1609 square feet. If there is someone on 
the list who is looking to buy an A-sail, I can send you a picture, and you can 
contact my friend directly. I get no benefit from this, other than making the 
list aware of this sail. 


Alan Bergen 
C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty 
Rose City YC 
Portland, OR 

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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Now PHRF "Sleepers"

2012-11-13 Thread Ron Casciato

David:

The PHRF sleeper category has been around for a long time.

 

Depending on what class you want to sail in:  Fast vs Slower You could
start with an old Frers 36 built by Carroll MarineUnbeatable in that
class.;  You could then move down to an Islander 36 tall rigalso tough
to get in front of; or as Dennis Conner did several years ago to a Ranger
26...

 

The boat to beat in my class (B) 100-130 is an old Pearson Flyer, he's been
the second Flyer we've seen over the last 20 years and both are always at
the front.  He's chased once in a while by a Laser 28and then a Frers 33
and me.  Once in a while we get luckymost of the time, they're just
good.

 

All ratings asideyou still have to have competitive crew and sail
well..

 

Best,

 

Ron Casciato

Impromptu

C&C 38MKIIC...'77

Mass Bay

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David
Risch
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

 

Taras,

If I were to buy a "PHRF-Beater"  (a boat that easily or more easily sails
to its rating)  it would be a Frers XX (take your choice).

Very anecdotal of course, but I have been told, and witnessed myself, that
as a baseline, they seem to have a good rating for their speed.   

My 2 cents...   

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)



  _  

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:25:21 -0400
From: mike.h...@impgroup.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Taras

 

Back to one of your roriginal questions

 

2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.  Should
this affect the handicap?

 

In most areas moving genoa tracks and other gear on the decks has no affect
on handicap.  In our area (Nova Scotia) it does not.  As a matter of fact
last Spring I installed an additional jib track on our J27 that was on the
deck rather than coach roof to open the slot when sailing with #3 in windier
conditions.  This has no effect on rating as is the same as barber hauling
or if more inboard then inhauling ...  which we are supoposed to be doing
anyway.  The outboard track did have a very positive effect on boat handling
this Fall when the wind came up.  We now have three tracks on each side .. 2
forward and one aft for the #2 & #1

 

Mike

 

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TARAS
IWANYCKI
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:58 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

I have a general question about boat dynamics and related phrf rating 

I have been racing against a Frers33 this season, a first-time boat owner
with green crew, that cleaned up and won almost everything in all conditions

Many of us are asking whether is handicap was correct.

The OD rating for the boat is 114 and the owner claimed this for the season

This boat had it's keel depth shortened by 6-8 inches and added a bulb to
equal the lost keel weight.  From what I understand, if you add a bulb to
your keel, it will stiffen the boat's feelcorrect? But...

1) What impact would cutting the keel down and adding a bulb to offset the
lost ballast do?  Would she be faster? slower?  Point higher? Lower?

2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.  Should
this affect the handicap?

3) What is the official way of determining the correct handicap? Is there an
official body to address?

 

Thanks

Taras


___ This List is provided by the
C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
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http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Now PHRF "Sleepers"

2012-11-13 Thread Pat Nevitt

While I love C&C's, those Frers are just plain great boats all around  -
fast, beautifully designed and built and very nice down below.

For a PHRF beater, there is a guy locally who has a Santana 21 that he
stripped out and optimized for light air on the Bay.  He kills everyone
with his gift 264 rating.  He only looses in heavier stuff when he gets
waterlined.

If you consider Pearson Flyer, why not a Tartan 10?  A great PHRF and one
design boat if you can find one in decent shape.

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Ron Casciato wrote:

> ** ** ** ** **
>
> David:
>
> The PHRF sleeper category has been around for a long time.
>
> ** **
>
> Depending on what class you want to sail in:  Fast vs Slower You could
> start with an old Frers 36 built by Carroll MarineUnbeatable in that
> class.;  You could then move down to an Islander 36 tall rig……….also tough
> to get in front of; or as Dennis Conner did several years ago to a Ranger
> 26………
>
> ** **
>
> The boat to beat in my class (B) 100-130 is an old Pearson Flyer, he’s
> been the second Flyer we’ve seen over the last 20 years and both are always
> at the front.  He’s chased once in a while by a Laser 28……….and then a
> Frers 33 and me.  Once in a while we get lucky……..most of the time, they’re
> just good.
>
> ** **
>
> All ratings asideyou still have to have competitive crew and sail
> well..
>
> ** **
>
> Best,
>
> ** **
>
> Ron Casciato
>
> Impromptu
>
> C&C 38MKIIC…..’77
>
> Mass** **Bay
>
> ** **
>  --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *David
> Risch
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:57 AM
> *To:* **cnc-list@cnc-list.com**
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating
>
> ** **
>
> **Taras**,
>
> If I were to buy a "PHRF-Beater"  (a boat that easily or more easily sails
> to its rating)  it would be a Frers XX (take your choice).
>
> Very anecdotal of course, but I have been told, and witnessed myself, that
> as a baseline, they seem to have a good rating for their speed.
>
> My 2 cents...
>
> David F. Risch
> 1981 40-2
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
> 
>  --
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:25:21 -0400
> From: mike.h...@impgroup.com
> To: **cnc-list@cnc-list.com**
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating
>
> **Taras**
>
>  
>
> Back to one of your roriginal questions
>
>  
>
> 2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.
>  Should this affect the handicap?
>
>  
>
> In most areas moving genoa tracks and other gear on the decks has no
> affect on handicap.  In our area (Nova Scotia) it does not.  As a
> matter of fact last Spring I installed an additional jib track on our J27
> that was on the deck rather than coach roof to open the slot when sailing
> with #3 in windier conditions.  This has no effect on rating as is the same
> as barber hauling or if more inboard then inhauling ...  which we are
> supoposed to be doing anyway.  The outboard track did have a very positive
> effect on boat handling this Fall when the wind came up.  We now have three
> tracks on each side .. 2 forward and one aft for the #2 & #1
>
>  
>
> Mike
>
>  
>
> ** **
>  --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *TARAS
> IWANYCKI
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:58 PM
> *To:* **cnc-list@cnc-list.com**
> *Subject:* Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating
>
> I have a general question about boat dynamics and related phrf rating 
>
> I have been racing against a Frers33 this season, a first-time boat owner
> with green crew, that cleaned up and won almost everything in all conditions
> 
>
> Many of us are asking whether is handicap was correct.
>
> The OD rating for the boat is 114 and the owner claimed this for the season
> 
>
> This boat had it's keel depth shortened by 6-8 inches and added a bulb to
> equal the lost keel weight.  From what I understand, if you add a bulb to
> your keel, it will stiffen the boat's feelcorrect? But...
>
> 1) What impact would cutting the keel down and adding a bulb to offset the
> lost ballast do?  Would she be faster? slower?  Point higher? Lower?
>
> 2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.
>  Should this affect the handicap?
>
> 3) What is the official way of determining the correct handicap? Is there
> an official body to address?
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks
>
> **Taras**
>
>
> ___ This List is provided by
> the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&

Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Now PHRF "Sleepers"

"has a Santana 21 that he stripped out ... "
 
Stripped out is subject to PHRF penalties.  If not reported the skipper
could be protested and DSQ
 
Then again - if stripped out means he took off all the excess baggage
that most of us carry and took the boat to factory contents then that is
a different story   Otherwise - skipper is cheating



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Pat
Nevitt
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:23 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Now PHRF "Sleepers"


While I love C&C's, those Frers are just plain great boats all around  -
fast, beautifully designed and built and very nice down below.

For a PHRF beater, there is a guy locally who has a Santana 21 that he
stripped out and optimized for light air on the Bay.  He kills everyone
with his gift 264 rating.  He only looses in heavier stuff when he gets
waterlined.

If you consider Pearson Flyer, why not a Tartan 10?  A great PHRF and
one design boat if you can find one in decent shape.


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Ron Casciato 
wrote:




David:

The PHRF sleeper category has been around for a long
time.

 

Depending on what class you want to sail in:  Fast vs Slower
You could start with an old Frers 36 built by Carroll
MarineUnbeatable in that class.;  You could then move down
to an Islander 36 tall rig..also tough to get in front of; or as
Dennis Conner did several years ago to a Ranger 26.

 

The boat to beat in my class (B) 100-130 is an old Pearson
Flyer, he's been the second Flyer we've seen over the last 20 years and
both are always at the front.  He's chased once in a while by a Laser
28..and then a Frers 33 and me.  Once in a while we get
luckymost of the time, they're just good.

 

All ratings asideyou still have to have competitive
crew and sail well..

 

Best,

 

Ron Casciato

Impromptu

C&C 38MKIIC.'77

Mass Bay

 





From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf
Of David Risch
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

 

Taras,

If I were to buy a "PHRF-Beater"  (a boat that easily or more
easily sails to its rating)  it would be a Frers XX (take your choice).

Very anecdotal of course, but I have been told, and witnessed
myself, that as a baseline, they seem to have a good rating for their
speed.   

My 2 cents...   

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650   (cell)







Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:25:21 -0400
From: mike.h...@impgroup.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Taras

 

Back to one of your roriginal questions

 

2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the
rail.  Should this affect the handicap?

 

In most areas moving genoa tracks and other gear on the decks
has no affect on handicap.  In our area (Nova Scotia) it does not.  As a
matter of fact last Spring I installed an additional jib track on our
J27 that was on the deck rather than coach roof to open the slot when
sailing with #3 in windier conditions.  This has no effect on rating as
is the same as barber hauling or if more inboard then inhauling ...
which we are supoposed to be doing anyway.  The outboard track did have
a very positive effect on boat handling this Fall when the wind came up.
We now have three tracks on each side .. 2 forward and one aft for the
#2 & #1

 

Mike

 

 





From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf
Of TARAS IWANYCKI
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:58 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

I have a general question about boat dynamics and related phrf
rating 

I have been racing against a Frers33 this season, a first-time
boat owner with green crew, that cleaned up and won almost everything in
all conditions

Many of us are asking whether is handicap was correct.

The OD rating for the boat is 114 and the owner claimed this for
the season

This boat had it's keel depth shortened by 6-8 inches and added
a bulb to equal the lost keel weight.  From what I understand, if you
add a bulb to your keel, it will stiffen the boat's feelcorrect?
But...

1) What impact would cutting the keel down and adding a bulb to
offset

Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

2012-11-13 Thread Fred Hazzard

Newer designs that were not designed to a rating are easier to sail to their
rating.  The J boats are ones that come to mind.  These boats reach and
maintain their speed potential fairly easily.  The problem with some of
these very popular boats is that a lot of very good racers were attracted to
these boats and as a result their ratings were often about the racers
skills.  I had a J-35 and a Peterson 41, one tonner.  Both boats rated about
the same.  While both boats could be sailed to their ratings it was a whole
lot harder to get the 41 up to speed.  With fewer Frers built, perhaps some
of their rating could be a little soft and easily sailed to their ratings.
Many of the older C&C were built to offshore rating rules and are sometimes
more difficult to get to their rated speeds.

 

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

C&C 44

Portland, Or

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David
Risch
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

 

Taras,

If I were to buy a "PHRF-Beater"  (a boat that easily or more easily sails
to its rating)  it would be a Frers XX (take your choice).

Very anecdotal of course, but I have been told, and witnessed myself, that
as a baseline, they seem to have a good rating for their speed.   

My 2 cents...   

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)



  _  

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:25:21 -0400
From: mike.h...@impgroup.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Taras

 

Back to one of your roriginal questions

 

2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.  Should
this affect the handicap?

 

In most areas moving genoa tracks and other gear on the decks has no affect
on handicap.  In our area (Nova Scotia) it does not.  As a matter of fact
last Spring I installed an additional jib track on our J27 that was on the
deck rather than coach roof to open the slot when sailing with #3 in windier
conditions.  This has no effect on rating as is the same as barber hauling
or if more inboard then inhauling ...  which we are supoposed to be doing
anyway.  The outboard track did have a very positive effect on boat handling
this Fall when the wind came up.  We now have three tracks on each side .. 2
forward and one aft for the #2 & #1

 

Mike

 

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TARAS
IWANYCKI
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:58 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

I have a general question about boat dynamics and related phrf rating 

I have been racing against a Frers33 this season, a first-time boat owner
with green crew, that cleaned up and won almost everything in all conditions

Many of us are asking whether is handicap was correct.

The OD rating for the boat is 114 and the owner claimed this for the season

This boat had it's keel depth shortened by 6-8 inches and added a bulb to
equal the lost keel weight.  From what I understand, if you add a bulb to
your keel, it will stiffen the boat's feelcorrect? But...

1) What impact would cutting the keel down and adding a bulb to offset the
lost ballast do?  Would she be faster? slower?  Point higher? Lower?

2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.  Should
this affect the handicap?

3) What is the official way of determining the correct handicap? Is there an
official body to address?

 

Thanks

Taras


___ This List is provided by the
C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
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http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Now just PHRF Rating

2012-11-13 Thread Indigo

One of the factors used in the YRA LIS PHRF region is crew weight.  I found
that I never raced with more than 6 crew so got a 3 second increase in
rating by dropping the crew weight!

 

Jonathan

Indigo - 35-III - on the hard in Milford CT

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:25 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

 

Taras

 

Back to one of your roriginal questions

 

2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.  Should
this affect the handicap?

 

In most areas moving genoa tracks and other gear on the decks has no affect
on handicap.  In our area (Nova Scotia) it does not.  As a matter of fact
last Spring I installed an additional jib track on our J27 that was on the
deck rather than coach roof to open the slot when sailing with #3 in windier
conditions.  This has no effect on rating as is the same as barber hauling
or if more inboard then inhauling ...  which we are supoposed to be doing
anyway.  The outboard track did have a very positive effect on boat handling
this Fall when the wind came up.  We now have three tracks on each side .. 2
forward and one aft for the #2 & #1

 

Mike

 

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TARAS
IWANYCKI
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:58 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

I have a general question about boat dynamics and related phrf rating 

I have been racing against a Frers33 this season, a first-time boat owner
with green crew, that cleaned up and won almost everything in all conditions

Many of us are asking whether is handicap was correct.

The OD rating for the boat is 114 and the owner claimed this for the season

This boat had it's keel depth shortened by 6-8 inches and added a bulb to
equal the lost keel weight.  From what I understand, if you add a bulb to
your keel, it will stiffen the boat's feelcorrect? But...

1) What impact would cutting the keel down and adding a bulb to offset the
lost ballast do?  Would she be faster? slower?  Point higher? Lower?

2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.  Should
this affect the handicap?

3) What is the official way of determining the correct handicap? Is there an
official body to address?

 

Thanks

Taras

___
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Re: Stus-List Dumb-ass mistake

It all works!  Upgraded the OS on the plotter.  One of the NMEA Tees was
bent because of a bad install job by another dumbass.  Replaced it, and now
the plotter and autopilot are connected!  If I select Go To WayPoint (or
Cursor) on the plotter, it asks if I want to engage the pilot.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Frederick G Street wrote:

> Check for more screws…   :^)
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Nov 11, 2012, at 10:12 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:
>
> Tomorrow I need to figure out why the E7 plotter isn't seeing the
> wheelpilot.  I may have a bad connection in my NMEA network.
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Headliner access panels

Several of the panels have delaminated.  1/4 inch plywood would be too
thick.  Is there a better replacement?  Has anyone either re-used the vinyl
or found a replacement?  What glue would you use?

Thanks!

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB
is registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for
48 hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to
New England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).

Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?

-- 
Joel
35/3
The Office
Annapolis
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread Della Barba, Joe

I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat.
Are you SURE?
The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are literally 
diving off the boat in what you are wearing.

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB is 
registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for 48 
hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to New 
England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).

Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?

--
Joel
35/3
The Office
Annapolis
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread Andrew Frame


I'm open for suggestions for my 24' as well. Strictly coastal, but out
of mobile phone range often.



On 11/13/2012 01:46 PM, Joel Aronson wrote:
> I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB
> is registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for
> 48 hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to
> New England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).
> 
> Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 

___
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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

A PLB is registered to a human according to the rep at the boat show.


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Della Barba, Joe
wrote:

> I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat. 
>
> Are you SURE?
>
> The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are literally
> diving off the boat in what you are wearing.
>
> ** **
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel
> Aronson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
>
> ** **
>
> I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB
> is registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for
> 48 hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to
> New England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).
>
> ** **
>
> Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?
> 
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Joel 
>
> 35/3
>
> The Office
>
> Annapolis
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___
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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

Andrew,

How far offshore do you do?  Out of VHF range?


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Joel Aronson wrote:

> A PLB is registered to a human according to the rep at the boat show.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Della Barba, Joe  > wrote:
>
>> I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat. 
>>
>> Are you SURE?
>>
>> The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are literally
>> diving off the boat in what you are wearing.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *Joe Della Barba*
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel
>> Aronson
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB
>> is registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for
>> 48 hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to
>> New England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?
>> 
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> --
>> Joel 
>>
>> 35/3
>>
>> The Office
>>
>> Annapolis
>> 301 541 8551
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>



-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread Della Barba, Joe

Did some checking - apparently the PLB form doesn't have a boat name, but it 
doesn't really matter. They want a CONTACT NAME so they can call and ask if it 
is a real distress call.
I have thought of leaving the following on my voice mailbox:
"If this is the USCG, hang up the damn phone and come get me. If you are 
someone else, leave a message at the beep"

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:00 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

Andrew,

How far offshore do you do?  Out of VHF range?

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Joel Aronson 
mailto:joel.aron...@gmail.com>> wrote:
A PLB is registered to a human according to the rep at the boat show.

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Della Barba, Joe 
mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>> wrote:
I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat.
Are you SURE?
The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are literally 
diving off the boat in what you are wearing.

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB is 
registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for 48 
hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to New 
England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).

Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?

--
Joel
35/3
The Office
Annapolis
301 541 8551

___
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com



--
Joel
301 541 8551



--
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

>> We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some 
>> sea...<<<

PHRF-NW rates Calypso at 90, a Soveral 33 at 93, and a Baba 40 (tall rig) at 
165.  The Soveral is full race and well sailed (+- 7,000lbs).  The Baba is 
cruise/race and participates in many races both serious and fun with a 
dedicated crew, has mixed age sails and a 22' spinnaker pole.  Calypso is set 
up for race/cruise style sailing with older sails (roller furler and spin sock) 
and a mix of crew experience (+- 24,000lbs).

The Soveral and the Baba are equal to or (mostly) faster than Calypso in light 
air and flat water.  Throw in some medium air and chop, the fully crewed 
Soveral is still faster but the Baba is only as fast down wind.

In a heavy air (25 to 35 TWS) race a few years ago the Baba (started 15 minute 
earlier) and Soveral beat Calypso to the leeward mark (Foulweather Bluff buoy 
+- 12 mile leg).  As we headed upwind the Soveral was low and slow as the crew 
could not keep the boat flat, the Baba was having trouble going to weather and 
difficulty in completing a tack (the lee shore was looming).  Calypso finally 
got conditions that favor a 1969/70 design that enjoys a good blow.  We used a 
#3 and 1 reef in the main, put the boat's shoulder to the seas and enjoyed the 
ride.  No crew had to ride the rail as the 9,500lb keel and big rudder was 
finally an asset.

My take on PHRF-NW guesstimate on performance handicaps over the broad range of 
PNW conditions is they did OK.  Some local competitors complain about the 
Baba's rating.  Much of the PNW racing is done in light air and with a 165 
rated tall rig; 22' spin pole boat he does well.  However I would not trade him 
for the very poor performance upwind in heavy conditions.  The Soveral meets 
the PHRF premise of a boat, sails, and crew being at its best in order to 
perform to its rating.  Often the Soveral finishes a series in the top 3 of its 
class.

Calypso is far from "being at its best" (old sails, cruising bottom, cruising 
gear) and its crew is put together with a mix of newbies, causal sailors, and a 
few of us that have throttled back after decades of "grand prix" level 
competition.  We the co-owners are satisfied with the performance vs. cost 
ratio.  If I needed to return to the very competitive end of the fleet a 
different boat would be more cost effective than bringing Calypso back to full 
race condition.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert Abbott
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:30 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some sea, and 
he would take it all back on the downwind spin run.  One way the 34R could beat 
the Hobie 33 was to have an upwind finish which happened once in St Margaret's 
Bay, I recall.

Bob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax N.S.

On 2012/11/12 10:07 PM, dwight veinot wrote:
The Frers 33 displacement is less than your 35 MKIII, the sail area to 
displacement ratio is quite a bit larger and LWL is only 1.5 feet less than 
your 35...we had similar experience racing against a Hobie 33 (PHRF 94) on a 
C&C 34R (PHRF 84)

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

Sounds good!

Joel Aronson


On Nov 13, 2012, at 2:08 PM, "Della Barba, Joe" 
wrote:

Did some checking – apparently the PLB form doesn’t have a boat name, but
it doesn’t really matter. They want a CONTACT NAME so they can call and ask
if it is a real distress call.

I have thought of leaving the following on my voice mailbox:

“If this is the USCG, hang up the damn phone and come get me. If you are
someone else, leave a message at the beep”



*Joe Della Barba*



*From:* CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
*On Behalf Of *Joel Aronson
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:00 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB



Andrew,



How far offshore do you do?  Out of VHF range?



On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Joel Aronson 
wrote:

A PLB is registered to a human according to the rep at the boat show.



On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Della Barba, Joe 
wrote:

I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat.

Are you SURE?

The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are literally
diving off the boat in what you are wearing.



*Joe Della Barba*



*From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel
Aronson
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Subject:* Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB



I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB
is registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for
48 hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to
New England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).



Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?



-- 
Joel

35/3

The Office

Annapolis
301 541 8551



___
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com





-- 
Joel
301 541 8551





-- 
Joel
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Martin

What is a cruising bottom?

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Martin DeYoung
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

>> We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and
some sea...<<<

PHRF-NW rates Calypso at 90, a Soveral 33 at 93, and a Baba 40 (tall
rig) at 165.  The Soveral is full race and well sailed (+- 7,000lbs).
The Baba is cruise/race and participates in many races both serious and
fun with a dedicated crew, has mixed age sails and a 22' spinnaker pole.
Calypso is set up for race/cruise style sailing with older sails (roller
furler and spin sock) and a mix of crew experience (+- 24,000lbs).

The Soveral and the Baba are equal to or (mostly) faster than Calypso in
light air and flat water.  Throw in some medium air and chop, the fully
crewed Soveral is still faster but the Baba is only as fast down wind.

In a heavy air (25 to 35 TWS) race a few years ago the Baba (started 15
minute earlier) and Soveral beat Calypso to the leeward mark
(Foulweather Bluff buoy +- 12 mile leg).  As we headed upwind the
Soveral was low and slow as the crew could not keep the boat flat, the
Baba was having trouble going to weather and difficulty in completing a
tack (the lee shore was looming).  Calypso finally got conditions that
favor a 1969/70 design that enjoys a good blow.  We used a #3 and 1 reef
in the main, put the boat's shoulder to the seas and enjoyed the ride.
No crew had to ride the rail as the 9,500lb keel and big rudder was
finally an asset.

My take on PHRF-NW guesstimate on performance handicaps over the broad
range of PNW conditions is they did OK.  Some local competitors complain
about the Baba's rating.  Much of the PNW racing is done in light air
and with a 165 rated tall rig; 22' spin pole boat he does well.  However
I would not trade him for the very poor performance upwind in heavy
conditions.  The Soveral meets the PHRF premise of a boat, sails, and
crew being at its best in order to perform to its rating.  Often the
Soveral finishes a series in the top 3 of its class.

Calypso is far from "being at its best" (old sails, cruising bottom,
cruising gear) and its crew is put together with a mix of newbies,
causal sailors, and a few of us that have throttled back after decades
of "grand prix" level competition.  We the co-owners are satisfied with
the performance vs. cost ratio.  If I needed to return to the very
competitive end of the fleet a different boat would be more cost
effective than bringing Calypso back to full race condition.

Martin

Calypso

1970 C&C 43

Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Robert Abbott
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:30 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some
sea, and he would take it all back on the downwind spin run.  One way
the 34R could beat the Hobie 33 was to have an upwind finish which
happened once in St Margaret's Bay, I recall.

Bob Abbott 
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84 
Halifax N.S.

On 2012/11/12 10:07 PM, dwight veinot wrote:

The Frers 33 displacement is less than your 35 MKIII, the sail
area to displacement ratio is quite a bit larger and LWL is only 1.5
feet less than your 35...we had similar experience racing against a
Hobie 33 (PHRF 94) on a C&C 34R (PHRF 84)

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread Graham Collins

EPIRBs offer a couple of other benefits - they float upright, and some 
have strobes.  My PLB has to be held upright so the antenna is properly 
oriented.


I guess it depends on your intent - will you be beyond a reasonable 24 
hour rescue?  Single handed (with PLB attached) or full crew?


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11


Joel Aronson wrote:
I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the 
EPIRB is registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB 
is good for 48 hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay 
it will be to New England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).


Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?

--
Joel
35/3
The Office
Annapolis
301 541 8551


___
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com


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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

The new PLBs are catching up:
Includes Built-in 406 MHz Signal, GPS Positioning and Super Bright LED
Strobe
Typical Performance of 30 Hours
The World's Smallest/Lightest PLB just got Better. Now it FLOATS!

Unless the rescue call goes to my ex, 24 (or 30) hours is enough.  If she
gets the call, no EPIRB will matter!


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Graham Collins
wrote:

> EPIRBs offer a couple of other benefits - they float upright, and some
> have strobes.  My PLB has to be held upright so the antenna is properly
> oriented.
>
> I guess it depends on your intent - will you be beyond a reasonable 24
> hour rescue?  Single handed (with PLB attached) or full crew?
>
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
>
>
> Joel Aronson wrote:
>
>> I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB
>> is registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for
>> 48 hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to
>> New England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).
>>
>> Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?
>>
>> --
>> Joel
>> 35/3
>> The Office
>> Annapolis
>> 301 541 8551
>>
>>
>> __**_
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>
> __**_
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>



-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Ablative paint with small blisters, keel not faired in the last 2 decades, some 
slime present from lack of cleaning.

Or, those little red bumps that itch after sitting in salt water day after day 
on a long cruise.

Martin

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:21 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Martin

What is a cruising bottom?

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin 
DeYoung
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating
>> We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some 
>> sea...<<<

PHRF-NW rates Calypso at 90, a Soveral 33 at 93, and a Baba 40 (tall rig) at 
165.  The Soveral is full race and well sailed (+- 7,000lbs).  The Baba is 
cruise/race and participates in many races both serious and fun with a 
dedicated crew, has mixed age sails and a 22' spinnaker pole.  Calypso is set 
up for race/cruise style sailing with older sails (roller furler and spin sock) 
and a mix of crew experience (+- 24,000lbs).

The Soveral and the Baba are equal to or (mostly) faster than Calypso in light 
air and flat water.  Throw in some medium air and chop, the fully crewed 
Soveral is still faster but the Baba is only as fast down wind.

In a heavy air (25 to 35 TWS) race a few years ago the Baba (started 15 minute 
earlier) and Soveral beat Calypso to the leeward mark (Foulweather Bluff buoy 
+- 12 mile leg).  As we headed upwind the Soveral was low and slow as the crew 
could not keep the boat flat, the Baba was having trouble going to weather and 
difficulty in completing a tack (the lee shore was looming).  Calypso finally 
got conditions that favor a 1969/70 design that enjoys a good blow.  We used a 
#3 and 1 reef in the main, put the boat's shoulder to the seas and enjoyed the 
ride.  No crew had to ride the rail as the 9,500lb keel and big rudder was 
finally an asset.

My take on PHRF-NW guesstimate on performance handicaps over the broad range of 
PNW conditions is they did OK.  Some local competitors complain about the 
Baba's rating.  Much of the PNW racing is done in light air and with a 165 
rated tall rig; 22' spin pole boat he does well.  However I would not trade him 
for the very poor performance upwind in heavy conditions.  The Soveral meets 
the PHRF premise of a boat, sails, and crew being at its best in order to 
perform to its rating.  Often the Soveral finishes a series in the top 3 of its 
class.

Calypso is far from "being at its best" (old sails, cruising bottom, cruising 
gear) and its crew is put together with a mix of newbies, causal sailors, and a 
few of us that have throttled back after decades of "grand prix" level 
competition.  We the co-owners are satisfied with the performance vs. cost 
ratio.  If I needed to return to the very competitive end of the fleet a 
different boat would be more cost effective than bringing Calypso back to full 
race condition.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert Abbott
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:30 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some sea, and 
he would take it all back on the downwind spin run.  One way the 34R could beat 
the Hobie 33 was to have an upwind finish which happened once in St Margaret's 
Bay, I recall.

Bob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax N.S.

On 2012/11/12 10:07 PM, dwight veinot wrote:
The Frers 33 displacement is less than your 35 MKIII, the sail area to 
displacement ratio is quite a bit larger and LWL is only 1.5 feet less than 
your 35...we had similar experience racing against a Hobie 33 (PHRF 94) on a 
C&C 34R (PHRF 84)

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

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Re: Stus-List Dumb-ass mistake

2012-11-13 Thread Frederick G Street

Good news!  Let us know how you like the e7 -- from what I've seen so far, it 
looks like a great unit.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:

> It all works!  Upgraded the OS on the plotter.  One of the NMEA Tees was bent 
> because of a bad install job by another dumbass.  Replaced it, and now the 
> plotter and autopilot are connected!  If I select Go To WayPoint (or Cursor) 
> on the plotter, it asks if I want to engage the pilot.  

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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread Bill Coleman

For what you are doing I would just rent one (or one of  each)  from BoatUS,
then you don't have to worry about obsolescence.  

 

Or you could get a  DeLorme inReach, with that one you can leave a bread
crumb trail, and you have two way communication- it would be nice to have
confirmation that someone was actually hearing you.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

 

I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB is
registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for 48
hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to New
England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).

 

Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?


 

-- 
Joel 

35/3

The Office

Annapolis
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Dumb-ass mistake

Fred,
I've had the E7 all season.  It is so much easier to use than the E90.  I
went from OS 2.x to OS 5.24.  It added more connectivity (the
BlueTooth/WiFi might work now) and also added zoom in and out from the
touch screen instead of just from the dial.  Until version 4, it did not
work with an autopilot.  I get depth, speed and water temp readings on it,
so I do not have a depth display, plus all the GPS features.  (I also get
depth and speed on the autopilot display (P70) so I have some redundancy.)
 Some day, someone will make folders for waypoints!

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Frederick G Street wrote:

> Good news!  Let us know how you like the e7 -- from what I've seen so far,
> it looks like a great unit.
>
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:
>
> It all works!  Upgraded the OS on the plotter.  One of the NMEA Tees was
> bent because of a bad install job by another dumbass.  Replaced it, and now
> the plotter and autopilot are connected!  If I select Go To WayPoint (or
> Cursor) on the plotter, it asks if I want to engage the pilot.
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread Indigo

This made me laugh out loud!

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della
Barba, Joe
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

Did some checking - apparently the PLB form doesn't have a boat name, but it
doesn't really matter. They want a CONTACT NAME so they can call and ask if
it is a real distress call.

I have thought of leaving the following on my voice mailbox:

"If this is the USCG, hang up the damn phone and come get me. If you are
someone else, leave a message at the beep"

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:00 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

Andrew,

How far offshore do you do?  Out of VHF range?

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Joel Aronson 
wrote:

A PLB is registered to a human according to the rep at the boat show.

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Della Barba, Joe 
wrote:

I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat. 

Are you SURE?

The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are literally
diving off the boat in what you are wearing.

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB is
registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for 48
hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to New
England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).

Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?

-- 
Joel 

35/3

The Office

Annapolis
301 541 8551  

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-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551  

-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread Alan Bergen

It might be cost effective to rent one from BoatUS during the times that you 
need one, rather than buying. 


Alan Bergen 
C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty 
Rose City YC 
Portland, OR 

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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

I forgot they rent them.  I could buy the PLB and rent the EPIRB as needed
. . .


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Alan Bergen wrote:

> It might be cost effective to rent one from BoatUS during the times that
> you need one, rather than buying.
>
> Alan Bergen
> C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

OK - I was afraid you meant "Flaking, peeling, ignored and cratered
because I dont care".
 
 



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Martin DeYoung
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:36 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating



Ablative paint with small blisters, keel not faired in the last 2
decades, some slime present from lack of cleaning.

 

Or, those little red bumps that itch after sitting in salt water day
after day on a long cruise.

 

Martin



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:21 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

 

Martin

 

What is a cruising bottom?

 



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Martin DeYoung
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

>> We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and
some sea...<<<

 

PHRF-NW rates Calypso at 90, a Soveral 33 at 93, and a Baba 40 (tall
rig) at 165.  The Soveral is full race and well sailed (+- 7,000lbs).
The Baba is cruise/race and participates in many races both serious and
fun with a dedicated crew, has mixed age sails and a 22' spinnaker pole.
Calypso is set up for race/cruise style sailing with older sails (roller
furler and spin sock) and a mix of crew experience (+- 24,000lbs).

 

The Soveral and the Baba are equal to or (mostly) faster than Calypso in
light air and flat water.  Throw in some medium air and chop, the fully
crewed Soveral is still faster but the Baba is only as fast down wind.

 

In a heavy air (25 to 35 TWS) race a few years ago the Baba (started 15
minute earlier) and Soveral beat Calypso to the leeward mark
(Foulweather Bluff buoy +- 12 mile leg).  As we headed upwind the
Soveral was low and slow as the crew could not keep the boat flat, the
Baba was having trouble going to weather and difficulty in completing a
tack (the lee shore was looming).  Calypso finally got conditions that
favor a 1969/70 design that enjoys a good blow.  We used a #3 and 1 reef
in the main, put the boat's shoulder to the seas and enjoyed the ride.
No crew had to ride the rail as the 9,500lb keel and big rudder was
finally an asset.

 

My take on PHRF-NW guesstimate on performance handicaps over the broad
range of PNW conditions is they did OK.  Some local competitors complain
about the Baba's rating.  Much of the PNW racing is done in light air
and with a 165 rated tall rig; 22' spin pole boat he does well.  However
I would not trade him for the very poor performance upwind in heavy
conditions.  The Soveral meets the PHRF premise of a boat, sails, and
crew being at its best in order to perform to its rating.  Often the
Soveral finishes a series in the top 3 of its class.

 

Calypso is far from "being at its best" (old sails, cruising bottom,
cruising gear) and its crew is put together with a mix of newbies,
causal sailors, and a few of us that have throttled back after decades
of "grand prix" level competition.  We the co-owners are satisfied with
the performance vs. cost ratio.  If I needed to return to the very
competitive end of the fleet a different boat would be more cost
effective than bringing Calypso back to full race condition.

 

Martin

Calypso

1970 C&C 43

Seattle



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Robert Abbott
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:30 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

 

We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some
sea, and he would take it all back on the downwind spin run.  One way
the 34R could beat the Hobie 33 was to have an upwind finish which
happened once in St Margaret's Bay, I recall.

Bob Abbott 
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84 
Halifax N.S.

On 2012/11/12 10:07 PM, dwight veinot wrote:

The Frers 33 displacement is less than your 35 MKIII, the sail
area to displacement ratio is quite a bit larger and LWL is only 1.5
feet less than your 35...we had similar experience racing against a
Hobie 33 (PHRF 94) on a C&C 34R (PHRF 84)

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS





 

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Re: Stus-List Dumb-ass mistake

2012-11-13 Thread dwight veinot

Joel Aronson

 

Some of us on this list who do not know you personally would like to know
what model C&C you sail.I am one of them.could you tell us please

 

Thanks

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: November 13, 2012 3:52 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Dumb-ass mistake

 

Fred,

I've had the E7 all season.  It is so much easier to use than the E90.  I
went from OS 2.x to OS 5.24.  It added more connectivity (the BlueTooth/WiFi
might work now) and also added zoom in and out from the touch screen instead
of just from the dial.  Until version 4, it did not work with an autopilot.
I get depth, speed and water temp readings on it, so I do not have a depth
display, plus all the GPS features.  (I also get depth and speed on the
autopilot display (P70) so I have some redundancy.)  Some day, someone will
make folders for waypoints!

 

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Frederick G Street 
wrote:

Good news!  Let us know how you like the e7 -- from what I've seen so far,
it looks like a great unit.

 


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:





It all works!  Upgraded the OS on the plotter.  One of the NMEA Tees was
bent because of a bad install job by another dumbass.  Replaced it, and now
the plotter and autopilot are connected!  If I select Go To WayPoint (or
Cursor) on the plotter, it asks if I want to engage the pilot.  

 


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CnC-List@cnc-list.com





 

-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5392 - Release Date: 11/13/12

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Re: Stus-List Dumb-ass mistake

Sorry!

35/3 Keel model
Annapolis


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:42 PM, dwight veinot  wrote:

> ** ** ** ** ** **
>
> Joel Aronson
>
> ** **
>
> Some of us on this list who do not know you personally would like to know
> what model C&C you sail…I am one of them…could you tell us please
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks
>
> ** **
>
> Dwight Veinot
>
> C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
>
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>   --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel
> Aronson
> *Sent:* November 13, 2012 3:52 PM
> *To:* **cnc-list@cnc-list.com**
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Dumb-ass mistake
>
> ** **
>
> Fred,
>
> I've had the E7 all season.  It is so much easier to use than the E90.  I
> went from OS 2.x to OS 5.24.  It added more connectivity (the
> BlueTooth/WiFi might work now) and also added zoom in and out from the
> touch screen instead of just from the dial.  Until version 4, it did not
> work with an autopilot.  I get depth, speed and water temp readings on it,
> so I do not have a depth display, plus all the GPS features.  (I also get
> depth and speed on the autopilot display (P70) so I have some redundancy.)
>  Some day, someone will make folders for waypoints!
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Frederick G Street <
> f...@postaudio.net> wrote:
>
> Good news!  Let us know how you like the e7 -- from what I've seen so far,
> it looks like a great unit.
>
> ** **
>
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V *Oceanis* (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield**, **
> WI   :^(
> 
>
> ** **
>
> On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
> It all works!  Upgraded the OS on the plotter.  One of the NMEA Tees was
> bent because of a bad install job by another dumbass.  Replaced it, and now
> the plotter and autopilot are connected!  If I select Go To WayPoint (or
> Cursor) on the plotter, it asks if I want to engage the pilot.  
>
> ** **
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>  --
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5392 - Release Date: 11/13/12*
> ***
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

Makes sense!  I stopped putting out the horseshoe ring while single
handing.  I didn't think I could grab it as I went over the side!


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:52 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com wrote:

> Since I single hand a lot, and am never more than 6 hours from land(great
> lakes) i went with McMurdo plb that fits in my inflatable life vest.  It's
> a compromise, but better than nothing if I am watching my boat sail off
> into distance.  Would you pay $200 to see a helicopter coming straight at
> you? Duh.
>
> Bill Walker
> Evening Star
> C n C 36
> Pentwater, Mi.
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Joel Aronson" 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
> Date: Tue, Nov 13, 2012 2:00 pm
>
>
> Andrew,
>
> How far offshore do you do?  Out of VHF range?
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Joel Aronson wrote:
>
>> A PLB is registered to a human according to the rep at the boat show.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Della Barba, Joe <
>> joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat. 
>>>
>>> Are you SURE?
>>>
>>> The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are
>>> literally diving off the boat in what you are wearing.
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *Joe Della Barba*
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel
>>> Aronson
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
>>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> *Subject:* Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the
>>> EPIRB is registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is
>>> good for 48 hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will
>>> be to New England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?
>>> 
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joel 
>>>
>>> 35/3
>>>
>>> The Office
>>>
>>> Annapolis
>>> 301 541 8551
>>>
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel
>> 301 541 8551
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

The Seattle Yacht Club Cruiser/Racer class gives rating credits for cruising 
bottoms, old sails, roller furling, windless/anchor on bow etc.

The C/R class was created to increase participation.  Non competitive sailors 
and boats will often show up if the class is relaxed about the starting tactics 
(less shouting and close quarters) and promotes courtesy in crossing 
situations.  SYC is flexible on shorting the course in very light air and we 
take ½ way times in case the wind shuts off entirely.

Some of the participants take full advantage of the cruising credits.  I may 
have a list of what has been offered is any C&C listers are thinking of a 
similar "get out the boat" effort.  Let me know if the info is wanted.

In recent years there have been 4 or 5 boats (incl Calypso) that are sailed 
with intent to be C/R class competitive with limited use of the cruiser rating 
discounts.  Owners new to racing or whose boats were never conceived as a race 
boat can add more than a dozen seconds to the handicap to help move up the 
score card.  Most years there have been 12 to 15 boats total in the C/R class.

Martin

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

OK - I was afraid you meant "Flaking, peeling, ignored and cratered because I 
dont care".




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin 
DeYoung
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:36 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating
Ablative paint with small blisters, keel not faired in the last 2 decades, some 
slime present from lack of cleaning.

Or, those little red bumps that itch after sitting in salt water day after day 
on a long cruise.

Martin

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:21 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

Martin

What is a cruising bottom?


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin 
DeYoung
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating
>> We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some 
>> sea...<<<

PHRF-NW rates Calypso at 90, a Soveral 33 at 93, and a Baba 40 (tall rig) at 
165.  The Soveral is full race and well sailed (+- 7,000lbs).  The Baba is 
cruise/race and participates in many races both serious and fun with a 
dedicated crew, has mixed age sails and a 22' spinnaker pole.  Calypso is set 
up for race/cruise style sailing with older sails (roller furler and spin sock) 
and a mix of crew experience (+- 24,000lbs).

The Soveral and the Baba are equal to or (mostly) faster than Calypso in light 
air and flat water.  Throw in some medium air and chop, the fully crewed 
Soveral is still faster but the Baba is only as fast down wind.

In a heavy air (25 to 35 TWS) race a few years ago the Baba (started 15 minute 
earlier) and Soveral beat Calypso to the leeward mark (Foulweather Bluff buoy 
+- 12 mile leg).  As we headed upwind the Soveral was low and slow as the crew 
could not keep the boat flat, the Baba was having trouble going to weather and 
difficulty in completing a tack (the lee shore was looming).  Calypso finally 
got conditions that favor a 1969/70 design that enjoys a good blow.  We used a 
#3 and 1 reef in the main, put the boat's shoulder to the seas and enjoyed the 
ride.  No crew had to ride the rail as the 9,500lb keel and big rudder was 
finally an asset.

My take on PHRF-NW guesstimate on performance handicaps over the broad range of 
PNW conditions is they did OK.  Some local competitors complain about the 
Baba's rating.  Much of the PNW racing is done in light air and with a 165 
rated tall rig; 22' spin pole boat he does well.  However I would not trade him 
for the very poor performance upwind in heavy conditions.  The Soveral meets 
the PHRF premise of a boat, sails, and crew being at its best in order to 
perform to its rating.  Often the Soveral finishes a series in the top 3 of its 
class.

Calypso is far from "being at its best" (old sails, cruising bottom, cruising 
gear) and its crew is put together with a mix of newbies, causal sailors, and a 
few of us that have throttled back after decades of "grand prix" level 
competition.  We the co-owners are satisfied with the performance vs. cost 
ratio.  If I needed to return to the very competitive end of the fleet a 
different boat would be more cost effective than bringing Calypso back to full 
race condition.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert Abbott
Sent: Monday, Novem

Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

2012-11-13 Thread Gary Nylander

For our JAM races we have moved to Pursuit racing. This is a good way to 
decrease anxiety on the line. 

We tried adjustments for cruising equipment (dodgers, biminis, BBQ, etc.) but 
it didn't seem to attract a bunch of newbies. Maybe it is just that we have a 
limited supply of local boats

Would be interested in your list, though.

Gary Nylander
gnylan...@atlanticbb.net

Thanks.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Martin DeYoung 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:40 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating


  The Seattle Yacht Club Cruiser/Racer class gives rating credits for cruising 
bottoms, old sails, roller furling, windless/anchor on bow etc.



  The C/R class was created to increase participation.  Non competitive sailors 
and boats will often show up if the class is relaxed about the starting tactics 
(less shouting and close quarters) and promotes courtesy in crossing 
situations.  SYC is flexible on shorting the course in very light air and we 
take ½ way times in case the wind shuts off entirely.



  Some of the participants take full advantage of the cruising credits.  I may 
have a list of what has been offered is any C&C listers are thinking of a 
similar "get out the boat" effort.  Let me know if the info is wanted.



  In recent years there have been 4 or 5 boats (incl Calypso) that are sailed 
with intent to be C/R class competitive with limited use of the cruiser rating 
discounts.  Owners new to racing or whose boats were never conceived as a race 
boat can add more than a dozen seconds to the handicap to help move up the 
score card.  Most years there have been 12 to 15 boats total in the C/R class.



  Martin


--

  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:25 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating



  OK - I was afraid you meant "Flaking, peeling, ignored and cratered because I 
dont care".








--

  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin 
DeYoung
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:36 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

  Ablative paint with small blisters, keel not faired in the last 2 decades, 
some slime present from lack of cleaning.



  Or, those little red bumps that itch after sitting in salt water day after 
day on a long cruise.



  Martin


--

  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:21 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating



  Martin



  What is a cruising bottom?




--

  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin 
DeYoung
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:11 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

  >> We would kick his a-- going to weather in medium to heavy air and some 
sea.<<<



  PHRF-NW rates Calypso at 90, a Soveral 33 at 93, and a Baba 40 (tall rig) at 
165.  The Soveral is full race and well sailed (+- 7,000lbs).  The Baba is 
cruise/race and participates in many races both serious and fun with a 
dedicated crew, has mixed age sails and a 22' spinnaker pole.  Calypso is set 
up for race/cruise style sailing with older sails (roller furler and spin sock) 
and a mix of crew experience (+- 24,000lbs).



  The Soveral and the Baba are equal to or (mostly) faster than Calypso in 
light air and flat water.  Throw in some medium air and chop, the fully crewed 
Soveral is still faster but the Baba is only as fast down wind.



  In a heavy air (25 to 35 TWS) race a few years ago the Baba (started 15 
minute earlier) and Soveral beat Calypso to the leeward mark (Foulweather Bluff 
buoy +- 12 mile leg).  As we headed upwind the Soveral was low and slow as the 
crew could not keep the boat flat, the Baba was having trouble going to weather 
and difficulty in completing a tack (the lee shore was looming).  Calypso 
finally got conditions that favor a 1969/70 design that enjoys a good blow.  We 
used a #3 and 1 reef in the main, put the boat's shoulder to the seas and 
enjoyed the ride.  No crew had to ride the rail as the 9,500lb keel and big 
rudder was finally an asset.



  My take on PHRF-NW guesstimate on performance handicaps over the broad range 
of PNW conditions is they did OK.  Some local competitors complain about the 
Baba's rating.  Much of the PNW racing is done in light air and with a 165 
rated tall rig; 22' spin pole boat he does well.  However I would not trade him 
for the very poor performance up

Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

2012-11-13 Thread Bill Coleman

Have  you tried a free post-race keg of Dogfish IPA?

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1

 

 

 

<>

 

Gary Nylander

gnylan...@atlanticbb.net

-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Asymmetrical Spinnaker

Alan,

If the A-sail is light (1/2 oz or ¾ oz) and a race style cut send the info 
over.  If it is all cruise I am less interested.

Martin

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:37 AM
To: C&C Photoalbum email list
Subject: Stus-List Asymetrical Spinnaker

One of our yacht club members is a representative for Lee Sails.  He has an 
A-sail that was built for a customer who chose not to buy it after he ordered 
it.  The sail has a 53' luff, and is 1609 square feet.  If there is someone on 
the list who is looking to buy an A-sail, I can send you a picture, and you can 
contact my friend directly.  I get no benefit from this, other than making the 
list aware of this sail.
Alan Bergen
C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread dwight veinot

Joel

 

Thanks for letting us know that you have a 35/3.nice boat and a good
performer too.We have harnesses and tethers. I wear mine most of the time
and always when sailing alone .I need to stay on board.all sail control
lines are lead to the cockpit but mostly I sail with headsail only when
alone.3 attachment points for the tether in the cockpit, 1 aft of the helm
and 2 forward near the winches one to port the other to stbd.it's not
uncomfortable or inconvenient.I disconnect to go below and let AUTO look
after things until I return but I make sure the course ahead is clear and I
keep an eye on things regularly just to make sure AUTO is behaving.self
tailing winches and AUTO help with tacking.I recommend harness and tether to
anyone who sails alone no matter where or what conditions.my boat would not
make it back home without me and I would likely not make it back home
without it

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: November 13, 2012 5:13 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

 

Makes sense!  I stopped putting out the horseshoe ring while single handing.
I didn't think I could grab it as I went over the side!

 

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:52 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com 
wrote:

Since I single hand a lot, and am never more than 6 hours from land(great
lakes) i went with McMurdo plb that fits in my inflatable life vest.  It's a
compromise, but better than nothing if I am watching my boat sail off into
distance.  Would you pay $200 to see a helicopter coming straight at you?
Duh.

Bill Walker
Evening Star
C n C 36
Pentwater, Mi.  

- Reply message -
From: "Joel Aronson" 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

Date: Tue, Nov 13, 2012 2:00 pm


Andrew,

 

How far offshore do you do?  Out of VHF range?

 

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Joel Aronson 
wrote:

A PLB is registered to a human according to the rep at the boat show.

 

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Della Barba, Joe 
wrote:

I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat. 

Are you SURE?

The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are literally
diving off the boat in what you are wearing.

 

Joe Della Barba

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

 

I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB is
registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for 48
hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to New
England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).

 

Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?


 

-- 
Joel 

35/3

The Office

Annapolis
301 541   8551

 

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-- 
Joel 
301 541   8551





 

-- 
Joel 
301 541   8551


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-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5392 - Release Date: 11/13/12

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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating

2012-11-13 Thread Gary Nylander

Yes, but the old timers had it gone by the time we got to shore. We race JAM 
with a full cooler. and the 30-1 has a big ice box.

Gary
  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Coleman 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:08 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating


  Have  you tried a free post-race keg of Dogfish IPA?

   

  Bill Coleman

  C&C 39 

   

   

   

  <>

   

  Gary Nylander

  gnylan...@atlanticbb.net

-list.com



--


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Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Now PHRF "Sleepers"

2012-11-13 Thread Tim Goodyear

Is the Pearson Flyer you're referring to Wharf Rat? We beat them in the
Scituate Invitational last year, but they beat us to second in the Flip
Flop a couple of years ago - they are hard to beat; nicely prepared boat
and it doesn't hurt to have a sailmaker as a father...

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Ron Casciato wrote:

> ** ** ** ** **
>
> David:
>
> The PHRF sleeper category has been around for a long time.
>
> ** **
>
> Depending on what class you want to sail in:  Fast vs Slower You could
> start with an old Frers 36 built by Carroll MarineUnbeatable in that
> class.;  You could then move down to an Islander 36 tall rig……….also tough
> to get in front of; or as Dennis Conner did several years ago to a Ranger
> 26………
>
> ** **
>
> The boat to beat in my class (B) 100-130 is an old Pearson Flyer, he’s
> been the second Flyer we’ve seen over the last 20 years and both are always
> at the front.  He’s chased once in a while by a Laser 28……….and then a
> Frers 33 and me.  Once in a while we get lucky……..most of the time, they’re
> just good.
>
> ** **
>
> All ratings asideyou still have to have competitive crew and sail
> well..
>
> ** **
>
> Best,
>
> ** **
>
> Ron Casciato
>
> Impromptu
>
> C&C 38MKIIC…..’77
>
> Mass** **Bay
>
> ** **
>  --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *David
> Risch
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:57 AM
> *To:* **cnc-list@cnc-list.com**
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating
>
> ** **
>
> **Taras**,
>
> If I were to buy a "PHRF-Beater"  (a boat that easily or more easily sails
> to its rating)  it would be a Frers XX (take your choice).
>
> Very anecdotal of course, but I have been told, and witnessed myself, that
> as a baseline, they seem to have a good rating for their speed.
>
> My 2 cents...
>
> David F. Risch
> 1981 40-2
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
> 
>  --
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:25:21 -0400
> From: mike.h...@impgroup.com
> To: **cnc-list@cnc-list.com**
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating
>
> **Taras**
>
>  
>
> Back to one of your roriginal questions
>
>  
>
> 2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.
>  Should this affect the handicap?
>
>  
>
> In most areas moving genoa tracks and other gear on the decks has no
> affect on handicap.  In our area (Nova Scotia) it does not.  As a
> matter of fact last Spring I installed an additional jib track on our J27
> that was on the deck rather than coach roof to open the slot when sailing
> with #3 in windier conditions.  This has no effect on rating as is the same
> as barber hauling or if more inboard then inhauling ...  which we are
> supoposed to be doing anyway.  The outboard track did have a very positive
> effect on boat handling this Fall when the wind came up.  We now have three
> tracks on each side .. 2 forward and one aft for the #2 & #1
>
>  
>
> Mike
>
>  
>
> ** **
>  --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *TARAS
> IWANYCKI
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:58 PM
> *To:* **cnc-list@cnc-list.com**
> *Subject:* Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating
>
> I have a general question about boat dynamics and related phrf rating 
>
> I have been racing against a Frers33 this season, a first-time boat owner
> with green crew, that cleaned up and won almost everything in all conditions
> 
>
> Many of us are asking whether is handicap was correct.
>
> The OD rating for the boat is 114 and the owner claimed this for the season
> 
>
> This boat had it's keel depth shortened by 6-8 inches and added a bulb to
> equal the lost keel weight.  From what I understand, if you add a bulb to
> your keel, it will stiffen the boat's feelcorrect? But...
>
> 1) What impact would cutting the keel down and adding a bulb to offset the
> lost ballast do?  Would she be faster? slower?  Point higher? Lower?
>
> 2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail.
>  Should this affect the handicap?
>
> 3) What is the official way of determining the correct handicap? Is there
> an official body to address?
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks
>
> **Taras**
>
>
> ___ This List is provided by
> the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Asymetrical Spinnaker

2012-11-13 Thread Bill Connon


Alan Bergen wrote:
One of our yacht club members is a representative for Lee Sails.  He 
has an A-sail that was built for a customer who chose not to buy it 
after he ordered it.  The sail has a 53' luff, and is 1609 square 
feet.  If there is someone on the list who is looking to buy an 
A-sail, I can send you a picture, and you can contact my friend 
directly.  I get no benefit from this, other than making the list 
aware of this sail.


Alan Bergen
C&C 35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



 Alan,

What sized boat was that spinnaker built for?

Bill
Caprice 1 - C&C 36

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Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

2012-11-13 Thread Jake Brodersen

Joel,

 

I plan on replacing some of mine.  I am thinking about using plastic
sheeting.  I stripped of the peeling vinyl a long time ago and just painted
the wood.  It is only 1/8 thick.  ¼ plywood would be hard to keep up there
using the stock Velcro.  I might screw my next set on, as the Velcro just
doesnt seem to work well, especially in rough conditions.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C&C 35 Mk-III

"Midnight Mistress

Hampton VA

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:43 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Headliner access panels

 

Several of the panels have delaminated.  1/4 inch plywood would be too
thick.  Is there a better replacement?  Has anyone either re-used the vinyl
or found a replacement?  What glue would you use?

 

Thanks!


 

-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung

2012-11-13 Thread Rick Taillieu

Mark,

 

I had a nylon bushing put in the lower gudgeon a number of years ago.  The 
upper one was OK at the time and would have been a PITA to take off.

The lower one is still good but the upper one is worn now.  The play isn’t too 
bad but it is starting to get annoying.

 

 

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25 # 371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G
Sent: November-12-12 11:33 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung

 


Rick,

With a quick look I can't see any evidence of those holes, but they are 
probably covered over with crud and bottom paint.  I did notice the bottom half 
is not entirely hollow.  There are a couple strips of plywood stacked on top of 
each other running down the middle of the rudder, primary purpose probably to 
adhere the halves together.  The salvage rudder seems to want to split at the 
seam, but of course, it underwent some serious abuse which is why it's broken 
in half.

Those holes would allow the rudder the drain when the boat is hauled, but they 
would also allow it to fill with water when the boat is launched.  That would 
take care of the buoyancy issue.  

When I sleeved the gudgeons last year, I used flanged bushings.  I was trying 
to figure out by looking at the wear pattern which gudgeon actually supports 
the weight of the rudder, the single upper or the lower double.  There was some 
wear on most of the faces.  I think the upper gudgeon supports my rudder when 
the boat is out of the water, but in the water, the rudder floats a bit and may 
be restrained by the lower double gudgeon.  The fact that the rudder floats, 
combined with the slop in the gudgeons, is what lead to the constant clunking.  
With the sleeved gudgeons, the clunk is gone.  (Now if I can just restrain that 
wire inside the mast, I might be able to sleep on my boat!)

Mark

- Original Message -
From: Rick Taillieu 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:19:59 - (UTC)
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung




Hi Mark,

 

The 25’s fibreglass rudder is made in 2 halves bonded together.

There is wood laminated in the upper part, ending about 1-1½” below the lower 
gudgeon plate, below that it’s hollow.

There is a small hole right at the base of the “L” where the rudder extends 
forward and one at the very bottom of the blade.

This lets the water drain out when the boat is hauled and it’s very important 
to keep them open especially if you are in an area that freezes.

The 24’s rudder might be made in the same way, I’m not sure.

 

I might be interested in a few things off your salvage boat, contact me off 
list and we’ll talk.

 

Cheers

 

 

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25  #371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G
Sent: November-11-12 4:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung

 


The transom-hung rudders are a different discussion altogether, but I learned 
something recently and want to add it to the collective knowledge of the list.

The earlier of the 25 Mk1's came from the factory with laminated wood rudders, 
which is what my '73 hull #79 has.  (Check out some of my previous posts about 
trying to maintain / preserve it.)

I recently salvaged '74 25 hull #301.  What follows is all based on the 
assumption that this boat had its original rudder.  This later rudder 
configuration is probably common to the 24, later 25 Mk1 and 25 Mk2.  27 Mk5 
could be the same, don't know.  After the owner cut off the keel, he removed 
the stands, dropped the boat on its hull, and broke the rudder approximately in 
half.  (I advised him that the used rudder was probably worth at least what he 
got for the lead keel, $0.60/lb, ~1800 lbs.)  

I was surprised to see that the salvaged fiberglass rudder is hollow.  (Hollow 
as in you can stick a broom handle in it and freely move it back and forth.)  
The fiberglass is only about 1/4" thick.  I guess I was expecting thicker 
fiberglass, or foam filled, something like that.  The top half of the rudder is 
hollow to a point, and then the upper third or so appears to be solid.  My 
guess is that it's a laminated wood stub, either painted or glassed over.   

This helps to explain this thread I came across recently about how much the 25 
rudder can flex:

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=113193

Without a doubt, this rudder is lighter than my laminated wood rudder.  (I've 
had my rudder off 3 out of 6 years I've owned my boat.  I've carried it around 
a lot!)  I also find this surprising, since you'd think the weight of a 
transom-hung rudder would be critical to the balance of the boat.

By the way, I took the pieces of broken rudder, thinking they might be useful 
to someone trying to b

Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

2012-11-13 Thread Graham Collins


Hi Joel
I replaced mine with 1/8" marine plywood, epoxy coated and then painted 
with Tremclad "hammered finish" spray in navajo white - blends in perfectly.


As Jake mentioned, and you may agree, the velcro does have some issues - 
mine are pretty good but don't stay tight so I may add a couple of 
strategic screws and caps.


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11


Joel Aronson wrote:
Several of the panels have delaminated.  1/4 inch plywood would be too 
thick.  Is there a better replacement?  Has anyone either re-used the 
vinyl or found a replacement?  What glue would you use?


Thanks!

--
Joel
301 541 8551


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Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

Jake
Something like Starboard?  Might check Interstate Plastics. Good idea!

Joel Aronson


On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Jake Brodersen  wrote:

Joel,



I plan on replacing some of mine.  I am thinking about using plastic
sheeting.  I stripped of the peeling vinyl a long time ago and just painted
the wood.  It is only 1/8” thick.  ¼” plywood would be hard to keep up
there using the stock Velcro.  I might screw my next set on, as the Velcro
just doesn’t seem to work well, especially in rough conditions.



Jake



*Jake Brodersen*

*C&C 35 Mk-III*

*"Midnight Mistress*

*Hampton VA*





*From:* CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
*On Behalf Of *Joel Aronson
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:43 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Subject:* Stus-List Headliner access panels



Several of the panels have delaminated.  1/4 inch plywood would be too
thick.  Is there a better replacement?  Has anyone either re-used the vinyl
or found a replacement?  What glue would you use?



Thanks!



-- 
Joel
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

Graham
 Thanks. I didn't know that is available in1/8 th inch. Time to google!

Joel Aronson


On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:51 PM, Graham Collins  wrote:

> Hi Joel
> I replaced mine with 1/8" marine plywood, epoxy coated and then painted with 
> Tremclad "hammered finish" spray in navajo white - blends in perfectly.
>
> As Jake mentioned, and you may agree, the velcro does have some issues - mine 
> are pretty good but don't stay tight so I may add a couple of strategic 
> screws and caps.
>
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
>
>
> Joel Aronson wrote:
>> Several of the panels have delaminated.  1/4 inch plywood would be too 
>> thick.  Is there a better replacement?  Has anyone either re-used the vinyl 
>> or found a replacement?  What glue would you use?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Joel
>> 301 541 8551
>>
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

2012-11-13 Thread Ron Casciato

I'd be careful of Starboard...it's heavy for that application even
in 1/8" thickness and I don't actually know if it's available thin or in the
length dimensions you'd need.

The original wood panels used to be called "door skins" and are likely the
cover panels of hollow core doorsoften in luan mahogany plywood.
Those are still available.   The vinyl covering can be purchased from
Sailrite??? The sewing machine and sail repair materials company.  

I recommend using the small screw cap setsavailable at Home
Desperate or Lowe's.  The cap snaps on over the screw head and snaps to the
washer..easy to install and remove.  I used about 3 per panel down
the middle and they become invisible in a very short time.

Best,

Ron C.
Impromptu
C&C 38MKIIC'77
Mass Bay

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 7:00 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

Graham
 Thanks. I didn't know that is available in1/8 th inch. Time to google!

Joel Aronson

On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:51 PM, Graham Collins 
wrote:

> Hi Joel
> I replaced mine with 1/8" marine plywood, epoxy coated and then painted
with Tremclad "hammered finish" spray in navajo white - blends in perfectly.
>
> As Jake mentioned, and you may agree, the velcro does have some issues -
mine are pretty good but don't stay tight so I may add a couple of strategic
screws and caps.
>
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
>
>
> Joel Aronson wrote:
>> Several of the panels have delaminated.  1/4 inch plywood would be too
thick.  Is there a better replacement?  Has anyone either re-used the vinyl
or found a replacement?  What glue would you use?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Joel
>> 301 541 8551
>>
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
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Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

2012-11-13 Thread Jake Brodersen

Joel,

 

If I go with plastic, I would go to McMaster-Carr.  They have everything.
One of Wal's favorite shopping places, besides the liquor store!

 

Jake

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:51 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

 

Jake

Something like Starboard?  Might check Interstate Plastics. Good idea!

Joel Aronson

 

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Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

2012-11-13 Thread Sam Salter

Velcro might not be the answer, but I'm
almost positive this will:

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3M-Industrial/Adhesives/Promotions-New-Products/Reclosable-Fasteners/

It's like super industrial strength velcro.

It's not cheap but it is reusable. I've not
used it for headliners but it secures my
"Velocitek Speed Puck" to the mast (about 1
lb) with a small piece about 1 1/2" x 4".
This stuff bites! We take it all over the
world when we sail and it's conquered big
winds and big seas.

sam :-)
C7C 26 Liquorice
Ghost Lake Alberta

On 13/11/12 4:42 PM, Jake Brodersen wrote:

Joel,

I plan on replacing some of mine. I am
thinking about using plastic sheeting. I
stripped of the peeling vinyl a long time
ago and just painted the wood. It is only
1/8" thick. ¼" plywood would be hard to
keep up there using the stock Velcro. I
might screw my next set on, as the Velcro
just doesn't seem to work well, especially
in rough conditions.

Jake

*/Jake Brodersen/*

*/C&C 35 Mk-III/*

*/"Midnight Mistress/*

*/Hampton VA/*

*From:*CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On
Behalf Of *Joel Aronson

*Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:43 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Subject:* Stus-List Headliner access panels

Several of the panels have delaminated.
1/4 inch plywood would be too thick. Is
there a better replacement? Has anyone
either re-used the vinyl or found a
replacement? What glue would you use?

Thanks!

--
Joel
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

2012-11-13 Thread Wally Bryant

Joel - I did this ten years ago, and it has held up very well and is 
light weight.  If you have the same kind of panels I do...



Wal


Joel Aronson wrote:

Several of the panels have delaminated.  1/4 inch plywood would be too
thick.  Is there a better replacement?  Has anyone either re-used the vinyl
or found a replacement?  What glue would you use?

Thanks!



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--
s/v Stella Blue
www.wbryant.com


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Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread Colin Kilgour

I have a 406 Epirb, but no PLB's.

Rather than subsitutes for one another, I would look at them as two
different types of safety equipment.  One is for MOB situations and
one is for abandon ship situations.

If you think you might go for an unplanned swim, as happened on Bounty
this year, Triple Stars last year, and Rule 62 the year before, the
PLB makes a ton of sense.  But I would put them in the context of all
your other MOB safety - PFD's, Harnesses, Tethers, MOMs, MOB poles,
etc.  You may decide that you've got enough MOB stuff and any more is
superfluous. Or you may decide you need them.

However, they really don't make a lot of sense unless you have one for
everyone on board - because you can't tell until it's too late which
of your crew will need it.

An EPIRB on the other hand is for abandon ship conditions - and I
wouldn't go to sea today without one.  However, if you're not sailing
outside of radio range and you've got a DSC radio, I'm not sure an
EPIRB will do anything better than your VHF would once you hit the red
button.

At the end of the day, we've all only got so much dough to spend and
we need to allocate our safety dollars the best way we can.  I've gone
to sea with as many as 7 people on Bojangles.   Frankly, I'd rather be
anal about them clipping in than have to shell out a couple thou for
PLB's for everybody.

In sum, I guess the reason I swear by an EPIRB is that I absolutely
want it there if the boat's going down - and I don't have any failsafe
way to ensure the boat won't sink.  On the other hand, while I also
want a PLB if I go overboard, there are lots of things I can do to
make sure that that doesn't happen.  So that's why I spent the money
on a EPIRB and not PLB's.

My $0.02.

Cheers
Colin

On 11/13/12, dwight veinot  wrote:
> Joel
>
>
>
> Thanks for letting us know that you have a 35/3.nice boat and a good
> performer too.We have harnesses and tethers. I wear mine most of the time
> and always when sailing alone .I need to stay on board.all sail control
> lines are lead to the cockpit but mostly I sail with headsail only when
> alone.3 attachment points for the tether in the cockpit, 1 aft of the helm
> and 2 forward near the winches one to port the other to stbd.it's not
> uncomfortable or inconvenient.I disconnect to go below and let AUTO look
> after things until I return but I make sure the course ahead is clear and I
> keep an eye on things regularly just to make sure AUTO is behaving.self
> tailing winches and AUTO help with tacking.I recommend harness and tether
> to
> anyone who sails alone no matter where or what conditions.my boat would not
> make it back home without me and I would likely not make it back home
> without it
>
>
>
> Dwight Veinot
>
> C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
>
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>
>   _
>
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
> Aronson
> Sent: November 13, 2012 5:13 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
>
>
>
> Makes sense!  I stopped putting out the horseshoe ring while single
> handing.
> I didn't think I could grab it as I went over the side!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:52 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com 
> wrote:
>
> Since I single hand a lot, and am never more than 6 hours from land(great
> lakes) i went with McMurdo plb that fits in my inflatable life vest.  It's
> a
> compromise, but better than nothing if I am watching my boat sail off into
> distance.  Would you pay $200 to see a helicopter coming straight at you?
> Duh.
>
> Bill Walker
> Evening Star
> C n C 36
> Pentwater, Mi.
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Joel Aronson" 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
>
> Date: Tue, Nov 13, 2012 2:00 pm
>
>
> Andrew,
>
>
>
> How far offshore do you do?  Out of VHF range?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Joel Aronson 
> wrote:
>
> A PLB is registered to a human according to the rep at the boat show.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Della Barba, Joe 
> wrote:
>
> I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat.
>
> Are you SURE?
>
> The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are literally
> diving off the boat in what you are wearing.
>
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
>
>
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
> Aronson
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
>
>
>
> I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB
> is
> registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for 48
> hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to New
> England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).
>
>
>
> Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Joel
>
> 35/3
>
> The Office
>
> Annapolis
> 301 541   8551
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoa

Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement then transom hung now gudgeons

2012-11-13 Thread Mark G


Mike,

I think the bushings came from McMaster-Carr or Grainger.

I was afraid that if I screwed this up, I either wouldn't get rid of the clunk, 
or the rudder hinge pin would bind in the gudgeons and make it difficult for me 
to turn the rudder.  Here's what I did, obviously overkill:

1) I have a spare set of used gudgeons (I think they're cast bronze, originally 
chrome plated?) that had the same problem.  I was having both sets modified at 
the same time.  I was careful to mark the gudgeons that were originally 
installed so I reinstalled the same ones.  I also marked the orientation in 
which they were installed (top/bottom), so I was sure to reinstall them the 
same way.
2) I brought the whole hinge setup to a local machine shop - the gudgeons, the 
hinge pin, the mating parts that mount to the rudder, etc.  That way they 
understood the function of the parts, and what I was trying to accomplish.  I 
also provided photos of the mounted rudder.  They mic'd everything up so I knew 
where I was starting, anyway.  I probably had about 1/8" slop, and no way (at 
that time) to determine the original diameter of the hole in the gudgeons.
3) They made some rough sketches, we agreed on the work, and I turned them 
loose on the job.
4) The machine shop used flanged bronze bushings.  I think they were about 1/8" 
thick all around, which allowed them some material to remove.
5) They had to open up the hole in the gudgeons to make it round again, and 
also took some material off the top.  While you would think this weakens the 
gudgeon somewhat, you are actually restoring the strength of the hinge by 
tightening up the fit of the hinge pin to the gudgeon.
6) They turned down the outer diameter of the bushing to suit the hole in the 
gudgeon.  The bushing was pressed in with a slight interference fit.  The 
flange was oriented according to the worn surface on the original gudgeon.
7) They bored out the hole in the bushing to suit the pin, and they faced off 
the bushing flange.  I think we agreed that the bushings would be bored out to 
provide 0.030 or 0.060 clearance with the hinge pin.  I guessed that this would 
get rid of the clunk but ensure the rudder wouldn't bind.
8) I reassembled it all on the boat, without any sealant, to see how much 
movement I had in the rudder and ensure nothing was binding.  Satisfied, I then 
reassembled everything with sealant, elastic stop nuts, etc.  The hinge pin was 
installed the whole time to ensure the gudgeons stayed aligned.

Before I took this on last winter, I got the input of several listers who did 
this job before me.  Some used plastic bushings, etc.  You can probably find 
the thread in the archives.

One last thing: the boat I just salvaged had no play at all between the hinge 
pin and the gudgeons.  So if I were to mic up the holes in those gudgeons, that 
would tell what the factory fit was.

Mark

- Original Message -
From: Mike Hoyt 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:19:12 - (UTC)
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung


MArk Where did you get the 
sleeves for this?
From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
G
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:33 AM
To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder 
Re-build/replacement now transom hung


Rick,

With a quick look I can't see any evidence of those 
holes, but they are probably covered over with crud and bottom paint.  I 
did notice the bottom half is not entirely hollow.  There are a couple 
strips of plywood stacked on top of each other running down the middle of the 
rudder, primary purpose probably to adhere the halves together.  The 
salvage rudder seems to want to split at the seam, but of course, it underwent 
some serious abuse which is why it's broken in half.

Those holes would 
allow the rudder the drain when the boat is hauled, but they would also allow 
it 
to fill with water when the boat is launched.  That would take care of the 
buoyancy issue.  

When I sleeved the gudgeons last year, I used 
flanged bushings.  I was trying to figure out by looking at the wear 
pattern which gudgeon actually supports the weight of the rudder, the single 
upper or the lower double.  There was some wear on most of the faces.  
I think the upper gudgeon supports my rudder when the boat is out of the water, 
but in the water, the rudder floats a bit and may be restrained by the lower 
double gudgeon.  The fact that the rudder floats, combined with the slop in 
the gudgeons, is what lead to the constant clunking.  With the sleeved 
gudgeons, the clunk is gone.  (Now if I can just restrain that wire inside 
the mast, I might be able to sleep on my boat!)

Mark


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Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung now gudgeons

2012-11-13 Thread Mark G

 
Rick,

Having removed and reinstalled the upper gudgeon in my boat last year, and then 
removed the upper gudgeon from the salvage boat this year, I totally agree.  If 
you got a lot of slop in the gudgeon like I had, and can find the right 
thin-walled pastic bushing, you can probably install the bushing with the 
gudgeon still on the boat.

Mark

- Original Message -
From: Rick Taillieu 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:47:23 - (UTC)
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung

Mark, I had a nylon bushing put in the lower gudgeon a number of years ago.  
The upper one was OK at the time and would have been a PITA to take off.The 
lower one is still good but the upper one is worn now.  The play isn’t too bad 
but it is starting to get annoying.  Rick TaillieuNemesis'75 C&C 25 # 
371Shearwater Yacht ClubHalifax, NS.   From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G
Sent: November-12-12 11:33 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung 
Rick,

With a quick look I can't see any evidence of those holes, but they are 
probably covered over with crud and bottom paint.  I did notice the bottom half 
is not entirely hollow.  There are a couple strips of plywood stacked on top of 
each other running down the middle of the rudder, primary purpose probably to 
adhere the halves together.  The salvage rudder seems to want to split at the 
seam, but of course, it underwent some serious abuse which is why it's broken 
in half.

Those holes would allow the rudder the drain when the boat is hauled, but they 
would also allow it to fill with water when the boat is launched.  That would 
take care of the buoyancy issue.  

When I sleeved the gudgeons last year, I used flanged bushings.  I was trying 
to figure out by looking at the wear pattern which gudgeon actually supports 
the weight of the rudder, the single upper or the lower double.  There was some 
wear on most of the faces.  I think the upper gudgeon supports my rudder when 
the boat is out of the water, but in the water, the rudder floats a bit and may 
be restrained by the lower double gudgeon.  The fact that the rudder floats, 
combined with the slop in the gudgeons, is what lead to the constant clunking.  
With the sleeved gudgeons, the clunk is gone.  (Now if I can just restrain that 
wire inside the mast, I might be able to sleep on my boat!)

Mark

- Original Message -
From: Rick Taillieu 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:19:59 - (UTC)
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung


Hi Mark, The 25’s fibreglass rudder is made in 2 halves bonded together.There 
is wood laminated in the upper part, ending about 1-1½” below the lower gudgeon 
plate, below that it’s hollow.There is a small hole right at the base of the 
“L” where the rudder extends forward and one at the very bottom of the 
blade.This lets the water drain out when the boat is hauled and it’s very 
important to keep them open especially if you are in an area that freezes.The 
24’s rudder might be made in the same way, I’m not sure. I might be interested 
in a few things off your salvage boat, contact me off list and we’ll talk. 
Cheers  Rick TaillieuNemesis'75 C&C 25  #371Shearwater Yacht ClubHalifax, NS.   
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G
Sent: November-11-12 4:35 PM
To:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung 
The transom-hung rudders are a different discussion altogether, but I learned 
something recently and want to add it to the collective knowledge of the list.

The earlier of the 25 Mk1's came from the factory with laminated wood rudders, 
which is what my '73 hull #79 has.  (Check out some of my previous posts about 
trying to maintain / preserve it.)

I recently salvaged '74 25 hull #301.  What follows is all based on the 
assumption that this boat had its original rudder.  This later rudder 
configuration is probably common to the 24, later 25 Mk1 and 25 Mk2.  27 Mk5 
could be the same, don't know.  After the owner cut off the keel, he removed 
the stands, dropped the boat on its hull, and broke the rudder approximately in 
half.  (I advised him that the used rudder was probably worth at least what he 
got for the lead keel, $0.60/lb, ~1800 lbs.)  

I was surprised to see that the salvaged fiberglass rudder is hollow.  (Hollow 
as in you can stick a broom handle in it and freely move it back and forth.)  
The fiberglass is only about 1/4" thick.  I guess I was expecting thicker 
fiberglass, or foam filled, something like that.  The top half of the rudder is 
hollow to a point, and then the upper third or so appears to be solid.  My 
guess is that it's a laminated wood stub, either painted or glassed over.   

This helps to explain this thread I came across recently about how much the 25 
rudder can flex:

Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB

2012-11-13 Thread Hedonistic Values

Me, too!!

On Nov 13, 2012, at 3:18 PM, "Indigo"  wrote:

> This made me laugh out loud!
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della 
> Barba, Joe
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:08 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
>  
> Did some checking – apparently the PLB form doesn’t have a boat name, but it 
> doesn’t really matter. They want a CONTACT NAME so they can call and ask if 
> it is a real distress call.
> I have thought of leaving the following on my voice mailbox:
> “If this is the USCG, hang up the damn phone and come get me. If you are 
> someone else, leave a message at the beep”
>  
> Joe Della Barba
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel 
> Aronson
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:00 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
>  
> Andrew,
>  
> How far offshore do you do?  Out of VHF range?
>  
> 
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:
> A PLB is registered to a human according to the rep at the boat show.
>  
> 
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Della Barba, Joe  
> wrote:
> I am not aware that a PLB cannot be registered to a boat.
> Are you SURE?
> The automatic ones are good for a sudden disaster where you are literally 
> diving off the boat in what you are wearing.
>  
> Joe Della Barba
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel 
> Aronson
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:46 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List EPIRB/ PLB
>  
> I'm considering adding an EPIRB or PLB over the winter.  I know the EPIRB is 
> registered to the boat and the PLB is not.  I know the EPIRB is good for 48 
> hours, the PLB is good for 24.  If I get out of the Bay it will be to New 
> England or possibly Bermuda (in my dreams).
>  
> Which would you buy?  If an EPIRB, Type I automatic or Type 2 manual?
>  
> -- 
> Joel 
> 35/3
> The Office
> Annapolis
> 301 541 8551
>  
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung

2012-11-13 Thread Mark G


Yah, I looked at 30 boats, but some of the earlier ones were Hunters and 
Catalinas.  Only the last 5 or so were C&C 25s.

I wouldn't have renamed my boat but it was "Peas and Rice" or "Peas and 
Carrots" at the time.  I was all set to name her Waterslug, submarine lingo for 
shooting a blank.  Then, at an 80th birthday party for my uncle, I got talking 
with one of his Marine Corp buddies who served with him in the Aleutians in 
WW2.  The conversation quickly turned to the weather they experienced, the 
frequent Williwaws.  So Williwaw stuck.  Most people associate Williwaw with 
Joshua Slocum.  While cleaning up the topsides to put on the new name, after 
the renaming ceremony of course, I saw the outlines of two previous names: 
Puffin, a great name, but too common IMHO, and Cachamay, also a great name, and 
I had to google it to find out what it was (a national park in South America).  
I've never seen another Cachamay, but have since seen a couple other Williwaws.

I looked at a yellow C&C 27 named Lemon Pi at a donated boat auction a couple 
years back.  Some guy bought it for next to nothing and sailed it back to Nova 
Scotia, I think.

- Original Message -
From: Rick Brass 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:30:40 - (UTC)
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung

You only looked at 30 boats? What a piker. I dragged my then girlfriend around 
marinas and yards in PA, NJ, and Chesapeake Bay at least one weekend a month 
for a year and a half before I found Belle. I was actually going to Annapolis 
to decide which of 3 Columbia 26s I was going to buy when I noticed an ad for a 
C&C 25 named Pi (think Math teacher and Greek symbol) in the Annapolis Capital, 
and decided to stop for a look while enroute. What can I say, I fell in love 
with the boat that morning and bought her over the phone. I’ve owned Bell for 
over 18 years now, and every time – EVERY TIME! – I go forward for the first 
time I whack my head on that verdammte cross beam under the mast step and say 
to myself “CRAP, I need to duck.”. Either I’m a slow learner or the repeated 
impacts are causing selective memory loss.  Rick BrassWashington, NC   From: 
CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung 

The support under the mast in the cabin is very robust on the 25 Mk1.  (Not 
only has mine resisted the weight of the mast and the tension on the shrouds 
all these years, but it has withstood the repeated impact of my forehead.) .


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Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels

2012-11-13 Thread Dennis C.

Joel,

Not sure what your access panels look like. I replaced the headliner access 
panels on my 35-1 with some white plastic sheets from mcmaster.com. The sheets 
were smooth on one side, textured on the other. I think I used 1/8 inch thick. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:43 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:

> Several of the panels have delaminated.  1/4 inch plywood would be too thick. 
>  Is there a better replacement?  Has anyone either re-used the vinyl or found 
> a replacement?  What glue would you use?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Headliner access panels