Re: "non-polar" capacitor?

[Jim Brain]

On 7/31/2016 12:37 AM, Ian McLaughlin wrote:

Jim,

These are non-polarized (or bi-polar) electrolytics.  An example is the 
following digikey part number: 493-12697-3-ND

You can always whip one up out of your junk box - just put 2 normal (polarized) 
electrolytic in series with the polarities alternating (for example, connect 
the two positives together).  Each capacitor has to be twice the value of the 
result - so for example, to replace a 1uF 50v non-polarized, you can put two 
2uF in series.

Hope this helps.

Ian

Thank you (and Chuck) for the response.

I guess it brings up more questions for me:

 * Why would Tandy spec such a cap in the design?
 * As I look at the specifications of the design, it looks like the
   rest of the design assume mac .250W of power on the audio line
   (given the selection of resistor networks and other parts) .  I
   noticed the Digikey unit you referenced has 17mA of ripple current
   capability.  I realize audio is not truly a ripple current, but the
   disparity between 17mA and 250mW seems like a problem... (Again, my
   analog is severely rusty, so maybe I am looking at this wrong.  I
   spent all night trying to find a way to determine the power of a R2R
   ladder given 5V logic and 8mA output drive of the 74ls374 IC, to no
   avail, so maybe I am looking at this wrong)
 o you'd think with the prevalence of R2R ladder logic, someone
   would have whipped up a power calculator, if nothing else, to
   determine the wattage of the resistors in the R2R, but I came up
   empty... I'll have to either calculate it longhand by summing
   all of the currents or sim it; not sure I can assume that since
   the effective impedence is 10K, the amperage would be .5mA @ 5V
   and thus the power would be 2.5mW

Sometimes, I wish I'd cared more about analog in college...

Jim

Re: Is MS-DOS, PC DOS and DR-DOS vintage enough to count?

[Liam Proven]

On 1 August 2016 at 08:39, Eric Smith  wrote:
> Both Windows 95 and Windows 98 do what you describe for Windows 98.
> Both 95 and 98 can boot to DOS only, in real mode, but then you don't
> get any GUI. In both 95 and 98, when you run the GUI, any DOS programs
> you run are in virtual 8086 mode.
>
> I know more than I really want to about this, because at one job I had
> the misfortune of having to write VxDs to provide services to those
> DOS windows, specifically because they couldn't run normal real mode
> drivers to talk to hardware.


Exactly! This!

All versions of W9x run in 386 protected mode, with DOS sessions in
the 386's Virtual 8086 mode.

There was no difference that I'm aware of between them.

Between WfWg 3.11 and 9x, yes. Between 9x and NT, yes. But 95/98/ME, no, TTBOMK.

If there _was_ some difference, [a] it was lept _very_ quiet, and [b],
I want to know!

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: "non-polar" capacitor?

[drlegendre .]

It's pretty simple, really.

Non-polar caps are used in locations where they must pass AC. Film caps (of
various constructions) are practical until the values exceed a few uF. Once
you need more than a few uF of non-polar capacitance, it's time to look at
NP electrolytics, as they are the cheapest route to a large-ish value
without the polarity issue.

Film caps (in the 63-350V range) are available in values as large as 10uF,
22uF, 47,uF and even 100uF - or more. But those are usually high-priced
specialty audio parts, for things like speaker crossovers and output
coupling caps in some audio preamp circuits.

A non-polar electrolytic is nothing more than a pair of normal (polar)
electrolytics, with the negative (-) leads tied together. There is no
difference between a (nominal) 10uF non-polar and a pair of 22uF polars
tied neg to neg.

Pos to pos works just as well, but it's just not the standard for a very
good reason.. think about how a standard electrolytic cap case is built &
sealed..

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 2:30 AM, Jim Brain  wrote:

> On 7/31/2016 12:37 AM, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> These are non-polarized (or bi-polar) electrolytics.  An example is the
>> following digikey part number: 493-12697-3-ND
>>
>> You can always whip one up out of your junk box - just put 2 normal
>> (polarized) electrolytic in series with the polarities alternating (for
>> example, connect the two positives together).  Each capacitor has to be
>> twice the value of the result - so for example, to replace a 1uF 50v
>> non-polarized, you can put two 2uF in series.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Ian
>>
> Thank you (and Chuck) for the response.
>
> I guess it brings up more questions for me:
>
>  * Why would Tandy spec such a cap in the design?
>  * As I look at the specifications of the design, it looks like the
>rest of the design assume mac .250W of power on the audio line
>(given the selection of resistor networks and other parts) .  I
>noticed the Digikey unit you referenced has 17mA of ripple current
>capability.  I realize audio is not truly a ripple current, but the
>disparity between 17mA and 250mW seems like a problem... (Again, my
>analog is severely rusty, so maybe I am looking at this wrong.  I
>spent all night trying to find a way to determine the power of a R2R
>ladder given 5V logic and 8mA output drive of the 74ls374 IC, to no
>avail, so maybe I am looking at this wrong)
>  o you'd think with the prevalence of R2R ladder logic, someone
>would have whipped up a power calculator, if nothing else, to
>determine the wattage of the resistors in the R2R, but I came up
>empty... I'll have to either calculate it longhand by summing
>all of the currents or sim it; not sure I can assume that since
>the effective impedence is 10K, the amperage would be .5mA @ 5V
>and thus the power would be 2.5mW
>
> Sometimes, I wish I'd cared more about analog in college...
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>

Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Jerry Kemp]

Shared secondarily as a discussion item, but presented as a detail from a 
discussion with another list member as a discussion detail I couldn't find at 
the moment.



This data is not new and dates to 2008.









Jerry

RE: Mall directory computers

[Kevin Parker]

I'm not exactly sure - it was one of those things that someone gave me and I 
put it away - my policy is grab first and ask questions later so it doesn't 
become landfill.

I have tried to research this based on info from another reply but no joy. 

I might open it up and see if there are any clues inside.

My understanding was that it was connected to a large flat panel monitor and 
just used for displaying advertisements and specials etc. It has a floppy disk 
"jammed" in the floppy drive which won't come out - not sure why. 



Kevin Parker

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of drlegendre .
Sent: Monday, 1 August 2016 09:41
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Mall directory computers

It's not +just+ an A500. What's the extra hardware piggybacked on the A500 case?

Looks to have a set of six RCA (F) type jacks on it. Is this for connection of 
a touchscreen display?

On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Kevin Parker 
wrote:

> Thanks for the clarity and the extra info  - as I said I haven’t 
> opened it or fired it up much less had a good look at it.
>
>
>
> Kevin Parker
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian 
> Finder
> Sent: Sunday, 31 July 2016 17:28
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < 
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Mall directory computers
>
> That is certainly not a C= 64 as the title in your link suggests but 
> rather an Amiga 500.
>
> These were quite popular for "video billboard" sort of purposes- I 
> imagine they had it running SCALAMultimedia or a similar authoring 
> environment.
>
> My local high school district channel ran on a similar setup for many 
> years. I recall seeing it stuck on the Amiga Workbench one day...
>
> On Sunday, July 31, 2016, Kevin Parker  wrote:
>
> > Just spotted this Brad clearing up email after a 4 week break. I 
> > can't answer your question but it reminded me of something that 
> > other list users may be able to help with or it might just be of interest.
> >
> > Quite some time ago a friend of mine bought a travel agent in a 
> > shopping mall, did a refit of the shop and then later went bust.
> > Fortunately before the refit and going bust he gave me his old shop 
> > display which was run on a modified Commodore.
> >
> > I haven't opened it up or powered it up but if anyone knows what 
> > this is I'd be grateful. I've posted some photos:
> >
> >
> > http://koken.advancedimaging.com.au/index.php?/albums/shop-mall-comm
> > od
> > ore-64/
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin Parker
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org ] 
> > On Behalf Of Brad H
> > Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 12:25
> > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' < 
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org >
> > Subject: Mall directory computers
> >
> > Been wondering about this for a while.   Just one of those odd childhood
> > memories.
> >
> >
> >
> > When I was a kid growing up in Oakville, Ontario, I remember 
> > Oakville Mall getting one of those very early mall directory computers.
> > This would have been like, 1982-84, somewhere thereabouts.  From 
> > what I remember, they had kind of CGA-sh graphics and a chiclet 'keyboard'
> > you used to browse the directory.  I'm wondering, were they just 
> > PCs, most likely?  Or some kind of custom job?
> >
> >
>
> --
>Ian Finder
>(206) 395-MIPS
>ian.fin...@gmail.com
>
>

Re: "non-polar" capacitor?

[Dale H. Cook]

At 04:03 AM 8/1/2016, drlegendre wrote:

>Non-polar caps are used in locations where they must pass AC.

Conventional polarized aluminum and tantalum capacitors are also used in 
locations where they must pass AC, such as interstage coupling capacitors and 
bypass capacitors, not to mention electrolytics as power supply filter 
capacitors. Any capacitor that could not pass AC would not be a capacitor.

There are two principal situations where non-polar electrolytics are used:

1) When there is no constant DC offset to the applied voltage - if the voltage 
applied to an electrolytic capacitor reverses the capacitor can be damaged. 
When there is no constant DC offset the second reason can come into play:

2) When a large value non-polarized electrolytic can, as previously noted, cost 
less than a large film, oil-filled, or other non-polar capacitor.

Some of us still deal daily with analog circuitry at work.

Dale H. Cook, Radio Contract Engineer, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcityeng/index.html 

Re: Why classiccmp is awesome [junk spots to visit]

[Al Kossow]

On 7/31/16 9:39 PM, Bob Rosenbloom wrote:

> Halted was open as of last Thursday.
> 

They moved to a smaller store space. Unfortunately, that meant that things like 
their
good selection of edge connectors aren't out any more.

Excess Solutions in San Jose is good mostly for parts. They've got random bits 
of hardware
and test equipment. At least as of Saturday, they were having a half off sale.

ACE Electronics and Anchor are still around for parts, too.

http://www.junktronix.com/svss/

but the list is dwindling

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Al Kossow]

http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif

On 8/1/16 1:47 AM, Jerry Kemp wrote:
> Shared secondarily as a discussion item, but presented as a detail from a 
> discussion with another list member as a
> discussion detail I couldn't find at the moment.
> 
> 
> This data is not new and dates to 2008.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry

Re: MicroVax II (Doug)

[John H. Reinhardt]

On 7/31/2016 10:38 PM, Douglas Taylor wrote:


That sounds good.  BTW, where do I go to get the VMS hobbyist license
PAKS and downloads?  I'm running into dead links.

Doug


Things recently (last few months) changed and the OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses are now 
handled by the HPE office in India.  The URL for the application is 


When you choose a chapter for "Participating Chapter" choose "DECUSERVE" if you don't belong to 
one.  Then telnet (no SSH) to eisner.decuserve.com where you will get a login page and choose the 
"REGISTRATION" option. This will get you a DECUS member number that you can supply for the hobbyist license. 
Once you are logged into the system you can find your membership number by typing the command "HOBBYIST"

Once you get your reply from HPE then you can also reply to that email and ask 
for the FTP credentials to download a VMS 7.3 VAX install disk image or Alpha 
or IA64 for that matter - just ask for all that you want.

Remember that when you apply it is going to India so plan for the timezone and 
weekend change accordingly.


John H. Reinhardt

Re: Why classiccmp is awesome [junk spots to visit]

[ethan]

but the list is dwindling


The rent is too high.

--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: "non-polar" capacitor?

[Chuck Guzis]

On 08/01/2016 04:08 AM, Dale H. Cook wrote:

> 1) When there is no constant DC offset to the applied voltage - if
> the voltage applied to an electrolytic capacitor reverses the
> capacitor can be damaged. When there is no constant DC offset the
> second reason can come into play:
> 
> 2) When a large value non-polarized electrolytic can, as previously
> noted, cost less than a large film, oil-filled, or other non-polar
> capacitor.
> 
> Some of us still deal daily with analog circuitry at work.

There's one other aspect that I believe is germane to this particular
application:  Linearity.

Aluminum electrolytic capacitors are very curious beasts--they're not
all capacitance, but rather operate as several different "pure"
properties hooked in series.  Most people here know about ESR, but
there's another one--wet aluminum dielectrics also function as if they
had a leaky diode in series with the series resistance and capacitance.

This is a result of the way they're constructed--basically two aluminum
foil strips, separated by a membrane (often paper) saturated with an
electrolyte (commonly borax).  A DC current is applied to "form" the
capacitor and establish its polarity.

Probably nobody here is old enough to remember liquid rectifiers, but my
own father related them to me (he grew up in a poor family during the
teens and 20s).  The idea was that you took a plate of aluminum and a
plate of tin, lead or other metal and immersed them in a solution of
sodium bicarbonate, borax or some other electrolyte (dad used ammonium
sulfate, a waste product of the nearby steel mills' coke ovens, and ran
an AC current through them.  Eventually, the device polarized and formed
a hydroxide/oxide layer on the aluminum and developed a preference to
current direction.  The sparkbangbuzz website has some interesting
observations on this animal.

For use in audio circuits, this "series diode" effect can lead to
distortion, hence the use of a non-polar device.  Take an aluminum
electrolytic and put it on your curve tracer and the effect is quite
visible.  For what it's worth, I don't know if tantalum caps exhibit the
same behavior, but I suspect that they do.

--Chuck

Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800

[Brad H]

Just thought I'd send out another shout out to anyone who might have one of 
these or is familiar with them.  I've had this a while but have not really been 
able to use it, lacking a boot disk.  It also doesn't have the standard MSIBUG 
ROM.  I'm hoping maybe someone out there knows how I could procure the original 
ROMs and put this back to stock.
I made a video showing the current 'WEEBUG' ROM in case any are curious or 
someone out there knows about it.
Thanks!
https://youtu.be/LY7yoAVxSrM



Sent from my Samsung device

Re: Mall directory computers

[Ian Finder]

you should certainly open it up and remove the battery. I would guess the
add on shell is a power supply, video modulator of some kind, and possibly
a hard drive controller.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 3:06 AM, Kevin Parker 
wrote:

> I'm not exactly sure - it was one of those things that someone gave me and
> I put it away - my policy is grab first and ask questions later so it
> doesn't become landfill.
>
> I have tried to research this based on info from another reply but no joy.
>
> I might open it up and see if there are any clues inside.
>
> My understanding was that it was connected to a large flat panel monitor
> and just used for displaying advertisements and specials etc. It has a
> floppy disk "jammed" in the floppy drive which won't come out - not sure
> why.
>
>
>
> Kevin Parker
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> drlegendre .
> Sent: Monday, 1 August 2016 09:41
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Mall directory computers
>
> It's not +just+ an A500. What's the extra hardware piggybacked on the A500
> case?
>
> Looks to have a set of six RCA (F) type jacks on it. Is this for
> connection of a touchscreen display?
>
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Kevin Parker 
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the clarity and the extra info  - as I said I haven’t
> > opened it or fired it up much less had a good look at it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin Parker
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian
> > Finder
> > Sent: Sunday, 31 July 2016 17:28
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: Re: Mall directory computers
> >
> > That is certainly not a C= 64 as the title in your link suggests but
> > rather an Amiga 500.
> >
> > These were quite popular for "video billboard" sort of purposes- I
> > imagine they had it running SCALAMultimedia or a similar authoring
> environment.
> >
> > My local high school district channel ran on a similar setup for many
> > years. I recall seeing it stuck on the Amiga Workbench one day...
> >
> > On Sunday, July 31, 2016, Kevin Parker  wrote:
> >
> > > Just spotted this Brad clearing up email after a 4 week break. I
> > > can't answer your question but it reminded me of something that
> > > other list users may be able to help with or it might just be of
> interest.
> > >
> > > Quite some time ago a friend of mine bought a travel agent in a
> > > shopping mall, did a refit of the shop and then later went bust.
> > > Fortunately before the refit and going bust he gave me his old shop
> > > display which was run on a modified Commodore.
> > >
> > > I haven't opened it up or powered it up but if anyone knows what
> > > this is I'd be grateful. I've posted some photos:
> > >
> > >
> > > http://koken.advancedimaging.com.au/index.php?/albums/shop-mall-comm
> > > od
> > > ore-64/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kevin Parker
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org ]
> > > On Behalf Of Brad H
> > > Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 12:25
> > > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org >
> > > Subject: Mall directory computers
> > >
> > > Been wondering about this for a while.   Just one of those odd
> childhood
> > > memories.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > When I was a kid growing up in Oakville, Ontario, I remember
> > > Oakville Mall getting one of those very early mall directory computers.
> > > This would have been like, 1982-84, somewhere thereabouts.  From
> > > what I remember, they had kind of CGA-sh graphics and a chiclet
> 'keyboard'
> > > you used to browse the directory.  I'm wondering, were they just
> > > PCs, most likely?  Or some kind of custom job?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >Ian Finder
> >(206) 395-MIPS
> >ian.fin...@gmail.com
> >
> >
>
>


-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800

[Christian Liendo]

Shout right back! I have one but I haven't really played with it.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Brad H
 wrote:
> Just thought I'd send out another shout out to anyone who might have one of 
> these or is familiar with them.

Re: Why classiccmp is awesome [junk spots to visit]

[Al Kossow]

That's one thing, and California's inventory tax, and the
fact that almost no manufacturing is done here, and eBay
killing off walk-in sales, and recyclers with required
destruct, and on and on.. The "Foothill" flea-market is
a shadow of what it was in the past.

On 8/1/16 9:27 AM, et...@757.org wrote:
>> but the list is dwindling
> 
> The rent is too high.
> 

Re: Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800

[william degnan]

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Christian Liendo  wrote:

> Shout right back! I have one but I haven't really played with it.
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Brad H
>  wrote:
> > Just thought I'd send out another shout out to anyone who might have one
> of these or is familiar with them.
>


I would think you could put a SWTPc ROM board in there, right?  Just use
mikibug.  I thought the cards were interchangable, or am I not thinking of
the right thing?

-- 
@ BillDeg:
Web: vintagecomputer.net
Twitter: @billdeg 
Youtube: @billdeg 
Unauthorized Bio 

Re: Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800

[william degnan]

COSAM sells new reproductions for SWTPc btw.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 2:57 PM, william degnan  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Christian Liendo 
> wrote:
>
>> Shout right back! I have one but I haven't really played with it.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Brad H
>>  wrote:
>> > Just thought I'd send out another shout out to anyone who might have
>> one of these or is familiar with them.
>>
>
>
> I would think you could put a SWTPc ROM board in there, right?  Just use
> mikibug.  I thought the cards were interchangable, or am I not thinking of
> the right thing?
>
> --
> @ BillDeg:
> Web: vintagecomputer.net
> Twitter: @billdeg 
> Youtube: @billdeg 
> Unauthorized Bio 
>
>
>


-- 
@ BillDeg:
Web: vintagecomputer.net
Twitter: @billdeg 
Youtube: @billdeg 
Unauthorized Bio 

Re: Why classiccmp is awesome [junk spots to visit]

[Eric Christopherson]

On Mon, Aug 01, 2016, Al Kossow wrote:
> That's one thing, and California's inventory tax, and the
> fact that almost no manufacturing is done here, and eBay
> killing off walk-in sales, and recyclers with required
> destruct, and on and on.. The "Foothill" flea-market is
> a shadow of what it was in the past.
> 
> On 8/1/16 9:27 AM, et...@757.org wrote:
> >> but the list is dwindling
> > 
> > The rent is too high.
> > 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_Is_Too_Damn_High_Party

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800

[Brad H]

I had thought of locating original MIKBUG roms but can't tell for sure if it 
would work.  The system has four EROM sockets and they are all occupied.. first 
two by this WEEBUG thing.
Finding SWTPC ROMs would be difficult.  I am getting an original 6800 machine 
next week but I'm loathe to mess with it too much.
From what I've read MSI were one of the more popular ss50 systems.  But yeah.. 
next to nothing out there about them.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: william degnan  
Date: 2016-08-01  11:57 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800 

COSAM sells new reproductions for SWTPc btw.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 2:57 PM, william degnan  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Christian Liendo 
> wrote:
>
>> Shout right back! I have one but I haven't really played with it.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Brad H
>>  wrote:
>> > Just thought I'd send out another shout out to anyone who might have
>> one of these or is familiar with them.
>>
>
>
> I would think you could put a SWTPc ROM board in there, right?  Just use
> mikibug.  I thought the cards were interchangable, or am I not thinking of
> the right thing?
>
> --
> @ BillDeg:
> Web: vintagecomputer.net
> Twitter: @billdeg 
> Youtube: @billdeg 
> Unauthorized Bio 
>
>
>


-- 
@ BillDeg:
Web: vintagecomputer.net
Twitter: @billdeg 
Youtube: @billdeg 
Unauthorized Bio 

Re: Mall directory computers

[Brad H]

I've been searching the dim recesses of my mind trying to remember the one at 
Oakville.  As I recalled the graphics output was quite slow.. it'd draw shapes 
individually and then fill in.  And the color was not great.  Must have been a 
CGA PC or some derivative.  This would have been around 1982-1983.  I just 
remember being fascinated as a kid pushing buttons and having stores and 
locations of things show up.  For early 1980s it was a pretty cool idea vs the 
big directory board you had to look all over.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Ian Finder  
Date: 2016-08-01  11:22 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Mall directory computers 

you should certainly open it up and remove the battery. I would guess the
add on shell is a power supply, video modulator of some kind, and possibly
a hard drive controller.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 3:06 AM, Kevin Parker 
wrote:

> I'm not exactly sure - it was one of those things that someone gave me and
> I put it away - my policy is grab first and ask questions later so it
> doesn't become landfill.
>
> I have tried to research this based on info from another reply but no joy.
>
> I might open it up and see if there are any clues inside.
>
> My understanding was that it was connected to a large flat panel monitor
> and just used for displaying advertisements and specials etc. It has a
> floppy disk "jammed" in the floppy drive which won't come out - not sure
> why.
>
>
>
> Kevin Parker
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> drlegendre .
> Sent: Monday, 1 August 2016 09:41
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Mall directory computers
>
> It's not +just+ an A500. What's the extra hardware piggybacked on the A500
> case?
>
> Looks to have a set of six RCA (F) type jacks on it. Is this for
> connection of a touchscreen display?
>
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Kevin Parker 
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the clarity and the extra info  - as I said I haven’t
> > opened it or fired it up much less had a good look at it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin Parker
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian
> > Finder
> > Sent: Sunday, 31 July 2016 17:28
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: Re: Mall directory computers
> >
> > That is certainly not a C= 64 as the title in your link suggests but
> > rather an Amiga 500.
> >
> > These were quite popular for "video billboard" sort of purposes- I
> > imagine they had it running SCALAMultimedia or a similar authoring
> environment.
> >
> > My local high school district channel ran on a similar setup for many
> > years. I recall seeing it stuck on the Amiga Workbench one day...
> >
> > On Sunday, July 31, 2016, Kevin Parker  wrote:
> >
> > > Just spotted this Brad clearing up email after a 4 week break. I
> > > can't answer your question but it reminded me of something that
> > > other list users may be able to help with or it might just be of
> interest.
> > >
> > > Quite some time ago a friend of mine bought a travel agent in a
> > > shopping mall, did a refit of the shop and then later went bust.
> > > Fortunately before the refit and going bust he gave me his old shop
> > > display which was run on a modified Commodore.
> > >
> > > I haven't opened it up or powered it up but if anyone knows what
> > > this is I'd be grateful. I've posted some photos:
> > >
> > >
> > > http://koken.advancedimaging.com.au/index.php?/albums/shop-mall-comm
> > > od
> > > ore-64/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kevin Parker
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org ]
> > > On Behalf Of Brad H
> > > Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 12:25
> > > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org >
> > > Subject: Mall directory computers
> > >
> > > Been wondering about this for a while.   Just one of those odd
> childhood
> > > memories.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > When I was a kid growing up in Oakville, Ontario, I remember
> > > Oakville Mall getting one of those very early mall directory computers.
> > > This would have been like, 1982-84, somewhere thereabouts.  From
> > > what I remember, they had kind of CGA-sh graphics and a chiclet
> 'keyboard'
> > > you used to browse the directory.  I'm wondering, were they just
> > > PCs, most likely?  Or some kind of custom job?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >    Ian Finder
> >    (206) 395-MIPS
> >    ian.fin...@gmail.com
> >
> >
>
>


-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Mall directory computers

[Brad H]

You know.. come to think of it.. it might have been something like this 
software I used to play with obsessively as a kid.  My Dad had it for our PC.  
I completely forgrt the name.  It was a CGA graphics proto-Powerpoint kind of 
deal.  You could draw pictures, graphs etc.. and it also had clip art.  You 
could do fade ins and outs and other effects.  I think we had it later on.. 85 
or after.  But the colors and way it drew graphics was similar.  And I think 
you could hotkey it to go to specific 'slides'.  The mall computer just had a 
series of buttons alongside the screen from what I remember.  Could have been 
rigged up to replicate certain keys.  
Wish I could remember the program name..


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Brad H  
Date: 2016-08-01  12:08 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Mall directory computers 


    
I've been searching the dim recesses of my mind trying to remember the one at 
Oakville.  As I recalled the graphics output was quite slow.. it'd draw shapes 
individually and then fill in.  And the color was not great.  Must have been a 
CGA PC or some derivative.  This would have been around 1982-1983.  I just 
remember being fascinated as a kid pushing buttons and having stores and 
locations of things show up.  For early 1980s it was a pretty cool idea vs the 
big directory board you had to look all over.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Ian Finder  
Date: 2016-08-01  11:22 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Mall directory computers 

you should certainly open it up and remove the battery. I would guess the
add on shell is a power supply, video modulator of some kind, and possibly
a hard drive controller.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 3:06 AM, Kevin Parker 
wrote:

> I'm not exactly sure - it was one of those things that someone gave me and
> I put it away - my policy is grab first and ask questions later so it
> doesn't become landfill.
>
> I have tried to research this based on info from another reply but no joy.
>
> I might open it up and see if there are any clues inside.
>
> My understanding was that it was connected to a large flat panel monitor
> and just used for displaying advertisements and specials etc. It has a
> floppy disk "jammed" in the floppy drive which won't come out - not sure
> why.
>
>
>
> Kevin Parker
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> drlegendre .
> Sent: Monday, 1 August 2016 09:41
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Mall directory computers
>
> It's not +just+ an A500. What's the extra hardware piggybacked on the A500
> case?
>
> Looks to have a set of six RCA (F) type jacks on it. Is this for
> connection of a touchscreen display?
>
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Kevin Parker 
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the clarity and the extra info  - as I said I haven’t
> > opened it or fired it up much less had a good look at it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin Parker
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian
> > Finder
> > Sent: Sunday, 31 July 2016 17:28
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: Re: Mall directory computers
> >
> > That is certainly not a C= 64 as the title in your link suggests but
> > rather an Amiga 500.
> >
> > These were quite popular for "video billboard" sort of purposes- I
> > imagine they had it running SCALAMultimedia or a similar authoring
> environment.
> >
> > My local high school district channel ran on a similar setup for many
> > years. I recall seeing it stuck on the Amiga Workbench one day...
> >
> > On Sunday, July 31, 2016, Kevin Parker  wrote:
> >
> > > Just spotted this Brad clearing up email after a 4 week break. I
> > > can't answer your question but it reminded me of something that
> > > other list users may be able to help with or it might just be of
> interest.
> > >
> > > Quite some time ago a friend of mine bought a travel agent in a
> > > shopping mall, did a refit of the shop and then later went bust.
> > > Fortunately before the refit and going bust he gave me his old shop
> > > display which was run on a modified Commodore.
> > >
> > > I haven't opened it up or powered it up but if anyone knows what
> > > this is I'd be grateful. I've posted some photos:
> > >
> > >
> > > http://koken.advancedimaging.com.au/index.php?/albums/shop-mall-comm
> > > od
> > > ore-64/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kevin Parker
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org ]
> > > On Behalf Of Brad H
> > > Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 12:25
> > > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org >
> > > Subject: Mall directory computers
> > >
> 

Re: Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800

[william degnan]

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Brad H 
wrote:

>
>
> I had thought of locating original MIKBUG roms but can't tell for sure if
> it would work.  The system has four EROM sockets and they are all
> occupied.. first two by this WEEBUG thing.
> Finding SWTPC ROMs would be difficult.  I am getting an original 6800
> machine next week but I'm loathe to mess with it too much.
> From what I've read MSI were one of the more popular ss50 systems.  But
> yeah.. next to nothing out there about them.
>
>
>
Two things - one is that I should have said the SWTPc 6809 not 6800.  2nd I
have had SWTPc machines with MSI cards in it, but I no longer have the
system.  I sold it because I just wanted the one 6800.  Space reasons.
There were ROM cards for this class of machines.  Companies like Micro
Works made them.  One way or the other I think you can find a ROM, if
you're FLEX-able.  get it?

b

RE: Why classiccmp is awesome [junk spots to visit]

[Ali]

> That's one thing, and California's inventory tax, and the fact that
> almost no manufacturing is done here, and eBay killing off walk-in
> sales, and recyclers with required destruct, and on and on.. The
> "Foothill" flea-market is a shadow of what it was in the past.

Inventory tax? I am not sure I am familiar with that one.

-Ali

Re: Mall directory computers

[ethan]

You know.. come to think of it.. it might have been something like this 
software I used to play with obsessively as a kid.  My Dad had it for 
our PC.  I completely forgrt the name.  It was a CGA graphics 
proto-Powerpoint kind of deal.  You could draw pictures, graphs etc.. 
and it also had clip art.  You could do fade ins and outs and other effects. 
 I think we had it later on.. 85 or after.  But the colors and way it 
drew graphics was similar.  And I think you could hotkey it to go to 
specific 'slides'.  The mall computer just had a series of buttons 
alongside the screen from what I remember.  Could have been rigged up to 
replicate certain keys.   Wish I could remember the program name..


There was GRASP / GRASPRT? You could author all sorts of stuff in it.


There was presentation software called Harvard Graphics I think.


--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: Mall directory computers

[Brad H]

It wasn't those two.. I remember Harvard Graphics.  It had a friendlier name 
than that.. Direct something?  Darn.  Gotta find it now.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: et...@757.org 
Date: 2016-08-01  12:49 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Mall directory computers 

>You know.. come to think of it.. it might have been something like this 
>software I used to play with obsessively as a kid.  My Dad had it for 
>our PC.  I completely forgrt the name.  It was a CGA graphics 
>proto-Powerpoint kind of deal.  You could draw pictures, graphs etc.. 
>and it also had clip art.  You could do fade ins and outs and other effects. 
> I think we had it later on.. 85 or after.  But the colors and way it 
>drew graphics was similar.  And I think you could hotkey it to go to 
>specific 'slides'.  The mall computer just had a series of buttons 
>alongside the screen from what I remember.  Could have been rigged up to 
>replicate certain keys.   Wish I could remember the program name..

There was GRASP / GRASPRT? You could author all sorts of stuff in it.


There was presentation software called Harvard Graphics I think.


--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: Mall directory computers

[couryhouse]

I remember company using varian... v series.. minI to drive display was 
prototype in az. why varian? There were mivso in the 80s. And this was NOT 
early 80s


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: Brad H  
Date: 8/1/16  13:17  (GMT-07:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Mall directory computers 


    
It wasn't those two.. I remember Harvard Graphics.  It had a friendlier name 
than that.. Direct something?  Darn.  Gotta find it now.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: et...@757.org 
Date: 2016-08-01  12:49 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Mall directory computers 

>You know.. come to think of it.. it might have been something like this 
>software I used to play with obsessively as a kid.  My Dad had it for 
>our PC.  I completely forgrt the name.  It was a CGA graphics 
>proto-Powerpoint kind of deal.  You could draw pictures, graphs etc.. 
>and it also had clip art.  You could do fade ins and outs and other effects. 
> I think we had it later on.. 85 or after.  But the colors and way it 
>drew graphics was similar.  And I think you could hotkey it to go to 
>specific 'slides'.  The mall computer just had a series of buttons 
>alongside the screen from what I remember.  Could have been rigged up to 
>replicate certain keys.   Wish I could remember the program name..

There was GRASP / GRASPRT? You could author all sorts of stuff in it.


There was presentation software called Harvard Graphics I think.


--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: ExpandaCore 18 core memory

[Göran Axelsson]

Sometimes you are lucky... A friend got a lot of documentation in a haul 
just a few days ago, among it was some documentation about NORD-1 and 
the ExpandaCore-18 was among it. So now I have complete schematics and 
even some timing diagrams.  :-)


For reference I'll include the link to the document page, 
https://sites.google.com/site/tingox/nd_documentation
Just in case someone would be looking for this document in the future 
and finds this post.


He also had a lot of other good stuff for me but not scanned yet, I'll 
just have to wait for that. Realistically I don't think I'm ready to add 
a hard drive to the machine yet as I'm not sure I can even read the 
memory. :-D


Göran

Den 2016-07-26 kl. 01:15, skrev Göran Axelsson:

Den 2016-07-25 kl. 14:37, skrev Camiel Vanderhoeven:
Op 25 jul. 2016 2:25 p.m. schreef "Göran Axelsson" 
:

My guess so far is that there is a problem with reading and writing to

the memory. The problem is that I have no documentation over the memory
module except a drawing of the circuitry used to access it. ND bought
several different models of core memory for it's early computers and 
just

adapted the interface.

So once again I turn to the cctech for help, does anybody have
instructions about ExpandaCore 18 from by Cambridge Memories INC, 
Newton,

Massachusetts (also known as CMI but probably not the CMI on bitsavers).

So far the only thing I've found was a newsflash in a computer magazine

about a sale of memories to another computer maker.

I can't help you with that, but is it just the core stack itself you 
don't
have docs for, or does the CMI part include some driver circuitry? If 
it's
just the stack, you should be able to do without docs for that. Core 
memory
doesn't go bad unless it's physically damaged. If it is physically 
damaged,

repair can be very difficult, depending on the diameter of the cores.


Thanks for the answer.

The ExpandaCore 18 (tm) ;-) is a unit with the driver electronics and 
core memory together. One control board per four memory planes and 
dual ported so a high speed device could write straight into the core 
memory without going through the CPU. In my case it seems like I have 
a packet drive interface that uses the second channel.


I have put up some more pictures here : 
http://www.home.neab.net/gandalf/ClassicComputing/Pictures/Nord-1%20%2347/


Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here but there is one "control board" 
for each four core planes. Maybe it's just a buffer. A problem with 
the core memories is that it sits tight in a crate and I have no 
extender for these cards. At least I should be able to measure the 
signals from the CPU to the control board, and from the control board 
to the memory planes.



How are you troubleshooting this? Can you deposit a value in memory from
the front panel, then read it back? If that works, but one or more 
bits are

off, there's a good reason to look at the core driver circuitry. If it
doesn't work at all, the problem could be anywhere. Try hooking a logic
analyzer to the address and data lines, clock, and read/write control 
lines

for a start.

Good luck!

Camiel


I can deposit a value in the address register (R) but that is as far 
as I have come right now. I can also look at the other registers. I 
think that the memory content should show up when I enter an address 
but I get back the same value as I entered.
The operators panel is a bit broken down, there are a couple of bad 
switches but new ones is in the mail. Some keys react on vibrations.
At the moment I can't do any measurements on the CPU-cards as there 
are no space in that crowded rack. But yesterday I cadded an extender 
for the NORD-1 CPU crate so in a week I'll be able to do some 
measurements on that part at least.


I got a cheap USB-connected logic analyzer and a digital sampling 
oscilloscope, so with the extender cards I will be able to measure or 
break up and inject any signal I want in the CPU.


This is too fun to be healthy! :-)

Göran

Re: Concurrent Computer Corporation

[Pete Lancashire]

Remove the part and set it in a device programmer ?

On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Pontus Pihlgren 
wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 01:58:49PM -0400, alexmcwhir...@triadic.us wrote:
> > I know nothing about this machine in particular, but i know a decent
> amount
> > about other unix machines of the era. Chances are that the copy of RTU on
> > that box is licensed to the serial / id number programmed in nvram.
> Because
> > the nvram is dead, those numbers no longer match and the OS panics from
> an
> > invalid license.
>
> I think you may very well be right. I noticed that the "show" command in
> the console displays the serial number. I went back and compared it with
> the serial number printed on the back of the machine. Well, it doesn't
> match one bit. So.. I either need to figure out to reprogram the NVRAM
> (simply set serial_number doesn't work and the manual lists the
> environment variable as "permanent") or I suppose I could figure out
> where on disk the serial number is.. but it doesn't sound easy.
>
> > The TOD clock typically part of the nvram chip and loses
> > it's value after every reset. If i had to guess, i would say replace the
> > battery / nvram chip (if it's a self contained chip like the old sun
> boxes)
> > and see if you can get enough data together to reprogram it. Whether or
> not
> > the machine in question has a facility to do that like the old sun's do
> i am
> > not sure.
>
> I've battled the NVRAM death and corresponding TOD problems in SGI, SUN
> and DEC machines before but only succeded because the "set"
> functionality of the console was enough... this time I'm not so sure.
>
> /P
>
>

Re: Concurrent Computer Corporation

[alexmcwhirter]

On 2016-07-30 13:51, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

Hi

I'm trying to revive and old unix machine. A Concurrent Computer
Corporation series 8000. This seems to be a later version of Masscomp
MC5600/MC5700 which has a manual in bitsavers. The system runs RTU
(which I assumes means Real Time Unix).

My machine is in great condition and both SCSI disks (Seagate ST516)
seems to work fine and I've made images. But the machine panics at 
boot:


---
panic: Unauthorized use of RTU
For further assistance, contact Concurrent's
Customer Service Technical Support Group
---

The NVRAM battery is long dead and upon entering the console I get a
complaint regarding the TOD clock, but I see no way of setting it.

I can boot into a "stand alone mode" but not single user. In the SAM I
can poke arround the filesystem and use "date" to set a date, but the
clock appears not to be running.

Does anyone have experience with this type of machine, either CCC or
masscomp and can offer assistance?

It's a dual MIPS machine with 16MB of memory.

/P


I know nothing about this machine in particular, but i know a decent 
amount about other unix machines of the era. Chances are that the copy 
of RTU on that box is licensed to the serial / id number programmed in 
nvram. Because the nvram is dead, those numbers no longer match and the 
OS panics from an invalid license. The TOD clock typically part of the 
nvram chip and loses it's value after every reset. If i had to guess, i 
would say replace the battery / nvram chip (if it's a self contained 
chip like the old sun boxes) and see if you can get enough data together 
to reprogram it. Whether or not the machine in question has a facility 
to do that like the old sun's do i am not sure.

AT&T 3b2, IBM RT, others

[Doug Fields]

I'm here in Austin picking up that Multiflow and they have a bunch of other 
computers. The most intact looking is an AT&T 3b2-1000-70. There are also two 
rude looking IBM RTs plus an Evans and Sutherland Freedom 1000 with Sun 
Graphics tower, a Sparc Printer, lots of old Apple printers, and other stuff. 
I'm trying to put it all on Imgur but having problems since I never used it 
before so if you want pics email me your iMessage account and I can share it 
somehow that way. 

Cheers,

Doug

--
Sent from my iPhone

Pictures per previous post

[Doug Fields]

You can view my shared album on the web:

Classic Computers

Apparently I can do this easily through iCloud. The joy of modern computers. :) 
Cheers, Doug



--
Sent from my iPhone

Re: Why classiccmp is awesome [junk spots to visit]

[Al Kossow]

On 8/1/16 12:35 PM, Ali wrote:

> Inventory tax?

brain fart. that was repealed in 1979

Re: AT&T 3b2, IBM RT, others

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Doug,

Thanks for the post.  I am assuming that this is all stuff that is up for 
"rescue"?

Unless Seth Morabito wants/needs the ATT 3b2, I am very much interested in that 
equipment.


I'm up north.   About 30 miles north of Dallas.

Jerry Kemp


On 07/31/16 12:43 PM, Doug Fields wrote:

I'm here in Austin picking up that Multiflow and they have a bunch of other 
computers. The most intact looking is an AT&T 3b2-1000-70. There are also two 
rude looking IBM RTs plus an Evans and Sutherland Freedom 1000 with Sun Graphics 
tower, a Sparc Printer, lots of old Apple printers, and other stuff. I'm trying to 
put it all on Imgur but having problems since I never used it before so if you want 
pics email me your iMessage account and I can share it somehow that way.

Cheers,

Doug

--
Sent from my iPhone

RE: Pictures per previous post

[Electronics Plus]

Except that there is no link? I know someone who wants the RT computers!

Cindy

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Doug Fields
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 12:47 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Pictures per previous post

You can view my shared album on the web:

Classic Computers

Apparently I can do this easily through iCloud. The joy of modern computers.
:) Cheers, Doug



--
Sent from my iPhone

Re: Pictures per previous post

[Doug Fields]

Apparently the list strips HTML out, which I didn't know.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL 


Try that?

Cheers,

Doug

> On Aug 1, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Electronics Plus  wrote:
> 
> Except that there is no link? I know someone who wants the RT computers!
> 
> Cindy
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Doug Fields
> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 12:47 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Pictures per previous post
> 
> You can view my shared album on the web:
> 
> Classic Computers
> 
> Apparently I can do this easily through iCloud. The joy of modern computers.
> :) Cheers, Doug
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 

Re: Pictures per previous post

[Glen Slick]

On Aug 1, 2016 2:57 PM, "Doug Fields"  wrote:
>
> Apparently the list strips HTML out, which I didn't know.
>
> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL <
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL>
>
> Try that?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Doug

TI Explorer II - someone is probably interested in that one.

Re: AT&T 3b2, IBM RT, others

[Jerry Kemp]

Hello Doug,

Thanks for the URL, the pictures are great.

Sorry if I am missing something here.

Are you at a Goodwill, or something similar in Austin?

Are these items for sale?  Or items to come pick up ASAP before they go to the 
recyclers?


Thanks for clarifying, sorry if you posted this already and I just missed it.

Jerry



On 07/31/16 12:43 PM, Doug Fields wrote:

I'm here in Austin picking up that Multiflow and they have a bunch of other 
computers. The most intact looking is an AT&T 3b2-1000-70. There are also two 
rude looking IBM RTs plus an Evans and Sutherland Freedom 1000 with Sun Graphics 
tower, a Sparc Printer, lots of old Apple printers, and other stuff. I'm trying to 
put it all on Imgur but having problems since I never used it before so if you want 
pics email me your iMessage account and I can share it somehow that way.

Cheers,

Doug

--
Sent from my iPhone

Re: Pictures per previous post

[Doug Fields]

I took these things home with me:

TI Explorer II
AT&T 3b2-1000-70 & BLIT monitor
Commodore 64 + disk drive
HP 85 (non-B, I think)
Bunch of NeXT manuals and PowerPC 601/603/604 manuals

Cheers,

Doug

> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:05 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:
> 
> On Aug 1, 2016 2:57 PM, "Doug Fields"  wrote:
>> 
>> Apparently the list strips HTML out, which I didn't know.
>> 
>> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL <
> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL>
>> 
>> Try that?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Doug
> 
> TI Explorer II - someone is probably interested in that one.
> 

Re: AT&T 3b2, IBM RT, others

[Doug Fields]

They were/are for sale at about $200 apiece, in Austin. See other message for 
which things I took. There were also a ton of vintage printing calculators, and 
about 5 huge PC boards for something with "Ametek S1" and other Ametek labels.

shantaedai...@gmail.com  - seller

Cheers,

Doug

> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Jerry Kemp  wrote:
> 
> Hello Doug,
> 
> Thanks for the URL, the pictures are great.
> 
> Sorry if I am missing something here.
> 
> Are you at a Goodwill, or something similar in Austin?
> 
> Are these items for sale?  Or items to come pick up ASAP before they go to 
> the recyclers?
> 
> Thanks for clarifying, sorry if you posted this already and I just missed it.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/31/16 12:43 PM, Doug Fields wrote:
>> I'm here in Austin picking up that Multiflow and they have a bunch of other 
>> computers. The most intact looking is an AT&T 3b2-1000-70. There are also 
>> two rude looking IBM RTs plus an Evans and Sutherland Freedom 1000 with Sun 
>> Graphics tower, a Sparc Printer, lots of old Apple printers, and other 
>> stuff. I'm trying to put it all on Imgur but having problems since I never 
>> used it before so if you want pics email me your iMessage account and I can 
>> share it somehow that way.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
> 

Re: Pictures per previous post

[killingsworth . todd]

Drat.  I've always wanted to go poking around a Sun Graphics tower.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:23 PM, Doug Fields  wrote:
> 
> I took these things home with me:
> 
> TI Explorer II
> AT&T 3b2-1000-70 & BLIT monitor
> Commodore 64 + disk drive
> HP 85 (non-B, I think)
> Bunch of NeXT manuals and PowerPC 601/603/604 manuals
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Doug
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:05 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:
>> 
>> On Aug 1, 2016 2:57 PM, "Doug Fields"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Apparently the list strips HTML out, which I didn't know.
>>> 
>>> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL <
>> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL>
>>> 
>>> Try that?
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Doug
>> 
>> TI Explorer II - someone is probably interested in that one.
> 

Re: Pictures per previous post

[Norman Jaffe]

Hi: 

I'm definitely interested in the TI Explorer II, especially if it is working!!! 
- Original Message -

From: "killingsworth todd"  
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 3:28:50 PM 
Subject: Re: Pictures per previous post 

Drat. I've always wanted to go poking around a Sun Graphics tower. 

Sent from my iPhone 

> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:23 PM, Doug Fields  wrote: 
> 
> I took these things home with me: 
> 
> TI Explorer II 
> AT&T 3b2-1000-70 & BLIT monitor 
> Commodore 64 + disk drive 
> HP 85 (non-B, I think) 
> Bunch of NeXT manuals and PowerPC 601/603/604 manuals 
> 
> Cheers, 
> 
> Doug 
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:05 PM, Glen Slick  wrote: 
>> 
>> On Aug 1, 2016 2:57 PM, "Doug Fields"  wrote: 
>>> 
>>> Apparently the list strips HTML out, which I didn't know. 
>>> 
>>> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL < 
>> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL> 
>>> 
>>> Try that? 
>>> 
>>> Cheers, 
>>> 
>>> Doug 
>> 
>> TI Explorer II - someone is probably interested in that one. 
> 

How to get a Heathkit H8 to work with a serial terminal

[Brad H]

I posted this on vcfed and thought I'd ask here too.
I have a working H8.  It has the basics plus a 64k ram card and serial/cassette 
card.  I have been looking and looking for info on what program to enter or rom 
change you have to make to get the machine to operate with a terminal.  
Surprisingly, I can't find any info on this at all.  The H9 terminal guide 
describes general assembly and operation but does not say specifically how you 
use it in conjunction with an H8.
Per others it sounds like you'd need to enter a program on the front panel to 
get the machine talking to the terminal.  Or change ROMs.  Does anyone have any 
info on how that all works?  Can you actually redirect the front panel 
input/output to terminal?  
B


Sent from my Samsung device

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > 

> http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif

I have a "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89" pin on my iMac G4, as seen here:
http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/pin/PinsBadges.html

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Business is war. -- Jack Tramiel ---

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Jerry Kemp]

I was not aware all those pins existed.

Did they (the pins) serve some special purpose, other than for someone to 
advertise an Apple product, on their shirt or hat?


Jerry


On 08/ 1/16 06:25 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:





http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif


I have a "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89" pin on my iMac G4, as seen here:
http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/pin/PinsBadges.html

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Cameron Kaiser]

> >>> 
> >
> >> http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif
> >
> > I have a "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89" pin on my iMac G4, as seen here:
> > http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/pin/PinsBadges.html
> 
> I was not aware all those pins existed.
> 
> Did they (the pins) serve some special purpose, other than for someone to 
> advertise an Apple product, on their shirt or hat?

Convo swag, presumably.



-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Sometimes Dilbert is so true, it's scary. -- Mike Jacobs ---

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Charles Anthony]

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Cameron Kaiser  wrote:

> > > <
> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/08/05/28/2214214/bill-gates-windows-95-was-a-high-point
> >
>
> > http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif
>
> I have a "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89" pin on my iMac G4, as seen here:
> http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/pin/PinsBadges.html
>
>
I remember seeing some ads on buses:

   C:\ONGRATULATIONS.W95

With an Apple Logo.

-- Charles

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Fred Cisin]

"Windows '95 = Macintosh '89"
On Mon, 1 Aug 2016, Jerry Kemp wrote:

I was not aware all those pins existed.
Did they (the pins) serve some special purpose, other than for someone to 
advertise an Apple product, on their shirt or hat?


brand loyalty statement.   (Ford V Chevy)

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Brad H]

I would call Win 95 a high point also.  I lived near Toronto at the time and 
remember the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one side.  There were 
events everywhere.  MS was really at their zenith. The excitement around that 
launch was like nothing since.  I believe I got swept up and installed it 
immediately but shortly after removed it.  Couldn't get used to the interface.  
Eventually for one reason or another I had to and did go back to it.  Wasn't 
the greatest or most stable OS and was kind of a half breed at that, but man.. 
what I wouldn't give to feel the anticipation again, the difference between it 
and DOS.  Nothing released on either PC or Mac has come close.
Brad


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Cameron Kaiser  
Date: 2016-08-01  4:25 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point' 

> > 

> http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif

I have a "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89" pin on my iMac G4, as seen here:
http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/pin/PinsBadges.html

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Business is war. -- Jack Tramiel ---

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Brad H]

Er.. that was.. 'down one side of the CN tower'.. :)


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Brad H  
Date: 2016-08-01  5:29 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point' 


    
I would call Win 95 a high point also.  I lived near Toronto at the time and 
remember the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one side.  There were 
events everywhere.  MS was really at their zenith. The excitement around that 
launch was like nothing since.  I believe I got swept up and installed it 
immediately but shortly after removed it.  Couldn't get used to the interface.  
Eventually for one reason or another I had to and did go back to it.  Wasn't 
the greatest or most stable OS and was kind of a half breed at that, but man.. 
what I wouldn't give to feel the anticipation again, the difference between it 
and DOS.  Nothing released on either PC or Mac has come close.
Brad


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Cameron Kaiser  
Date: 2016-08-01  4:25 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point' 

> > 

> http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif

I have a "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89" pin on my iMac G4, as seen here:
http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/pin/PinsBadges.html

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Business is war. -- Jack Tramiel ---

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Brad H]

Here's some shots of it.  I forgot about the guy rappelling down the tower.  
Don't think anyone rappelled for Windows 10!

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/this-guy-rappelled-down-the-cn-tower-for-the-launch-of-windows-95

Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Brad H  
Date: 2016-08-01  5:33 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point' 


    
Er.. that was.. 'down one side of the CN tower'.. :)


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Brad H  
Date: 2016-08-01  5:29 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point' 


    
I would call Win 95 a high point also.  I lived near Toronto at the time and 
remember the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one side.  There were 
events everywhere.  MS was really at their zenith. The excitement around that 
launch was like nothing since.  I believe I got swept up and installed it 
immediately but shortly after removed it.  Couldn't get used to the interface.  
Eventually for one reason or another I had to and did go back to it.  Wasn't 
the greatest or most stable OS and was kind of a half breed at that, but man.. 
what I wouldn't give to feel the anticipation again, the difference between it 
and DOS.  Nothing released on either PC or Mac has come close.
Brad


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Cameron Kaiser  
Date: 2016-08-01  4:25 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point' 

> > 

> http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif

I have a "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89" pin on my iMac G4, as seen here:
http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/pin/PinsBadges.html

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Business is war. -- Jack Tramiel ---

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[COURYHOUSE]

hey!  the start it up   
song  sold me!
  it  sure was a production eh?

I installed it...   I  liked it..
 
98 SE  got  better
 
me  got  worse
 
 
XP was outstanding
 
I did  fine  with vista...
 
7 was better  yet.
 
skipped 8 bought never installed   and used
to up to 8.1  then used to up to 10 on one system.
 
I am happy  with 10 just a  few things to get used to.
 
upgraded the edit bays  and office  systems...
 
 
all is  well  no  urge to go backwards
 
In the archive  area we  keep at least  one...
dos 6
3.1 
95
98se
xp
vista
7 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 8/1/2016 5:35:59 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net writes:



Er.. that was.. 'down one side of the CN  tower'.. :)


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original  message 
From: Brad H   
Date: 2016-08-01  5:29 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General  Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
  
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'  



I would call Win 95 a high point also.  I lived near Toronto at the time 
and remember the unfurling of a huge  Win 95 banner down one side.  There were 
events everywhere.  MS was  really at their zenith. The excitement around 
that launch was like nothing  since.  I believe I got swept up and installed 
it immediately but shortly  after removed it.  Couldn't get used to the 
interface.  Eventually  for one reason or another I had to and did go back to 
it.  Wasn't the  greatest or most stable OS and was kind of a half breed at 
that, but man..  what I wouldn't give to feel the anticipation again, the 
difference between it  and DOS.  Nothing released on either PC or Mac has come  
close.
Brad


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original  message 
From: Cameron Kaiser   
Date: 2016-08-01  4:25 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To:  cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High  Point' 

> >  


>  http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/introducing.gif

I  have a "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89" pin on my iMac G4, as seen  here:
http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/pin/PinsBadges.html

--  
 personal:  
http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems *  www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Business is war. -- Jack Tramiel  
---

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Chuck Guzis]

On 08/01/2016 05:29 PM, Brad H wrote:
> 
> 
> I would call Win 95 a high point also.  I lived near Toronto at the
> time and remember the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one
> side.  There were events everywhere.  MS was really at their zenith.
> The excitement around that launch was like nothing since.  I believe
> I got swept up and installed it immediately but shortly after removed
> it.  Couldn't get used to the interface.  Eventually for one reason
> or another I had to and did go back to it.  Wasn't the greatest or
> most stable OS and was kind of a half breed at that, but man.. what I
> wouldn't give to feel the anticipation again, the difference between
> it and DOS.  Nothing released on either PC or Mac has come close.

Win95 for those running NT 3.51 was something of a low point.  Compared
to the latter, 95 was a cranky, bug-ridden system that was burdened by
8.3 file names, limited disk size, etc.  I remember BSOD after BSOD when
my NT system ran just fine.  By the next year, when NT 4.0 came out,
there was no comparison.

And 3.51 would run on PPC, MIPS and Alpha platforms.

--Chuck

Re: "non-polar" capacitor?

[drlegendre .]

">Non-polar caps are used in locations where they must pass AC.

Conventional polarized aluminum and tantalum capacitors are also used in
locations where they must pass AC, such as interstage coupling capacitors
and bypass capacitors, not to mention electrolytics as power supply filter
capacitors. Any capacitor that could not pass AC would not be a capacitor."

That's not true AC in either case. It's fluctuating DC, or perhaps AC
riding on a DC bias equal to at least half the peak value of the waveform.

True AC switches polarity every 180' of the cycle. If you try to pass true
AC with an electrolytic, you will encounter the diode-like / rectifier
behavior that was also previously noted, whenever the voltage changes sign
to oppose the marked polarity of the cap.



On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 11:56 AM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> On 08/01/2016 04:08 AM, Dale H. Cook wrote:
>
> > 1) When there is no constant DC offset to the applied voltage - if
> > the voltage applied to an electrolytic capacitor reverses the
> > capacitor can be damaged. When there is no constant DC offset the
> > second reason can come into play:
> >
> > 2) When a large value non-polarized electrolytic can, as previously
> > noted, cost less than a large film, oil-filled, or other non-polar
> > capacitor.
> >
> > Some of us still deal daily with analog circuitry at work.
>
> There's one other aspect that I believe is germane to this particular
> application:  Linearity.
>
> Aluminum electrolytic capacitors are very curious beasts--they're not
> all capacitance, but rather operate as several different "pure"
> properties hooked in series.  Most people here know about ESR, but
> there's another one--wet aluminum dielectrics also function as if they
> had a leaky diode in series with the series resistance and capacitance.
>
> This is a result of the way they're constructed--basically two aluminum
> foil strips, separated by a membrane (often paper) saturated with an
> electrolyte (commonly borax).  A DC current is applied to "form" the
> capacitor and establish its polarity.
>
> Probably nobody here is old enough to remember liquid rectifiers, but my
> own father related them to me (he grew up in a poor family during the
> teens and 20s).  The idea was that you took a plate of aluminum and a
> plate of tin, lead or other metal and immersed them in a solution of
> sodium bicarbonate, borax or some other electrolyte (dad used ammonium
> sulfate, a waste product of the nearby steel mills' coke ovens, and ran
> an AC current through them.  Eventually, the device polarized and formed
> a hydroxide/oxide layer on the aluminum and developed a preference to
> current direction.  The sparkbangbuzz website has some interesting
> observations on this animal.
>
> For use in audio circuits, this "series diode" effect can lead to
> distortion, hence the use of a non-polar device.  Take an aluminum
> electrolytic and put it on your curve tracer and the effect is quite
> visible.  For what it's worth, I don't know if tantalum caps exhibit the
> same behavior, but I suspect that they do.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: LASERS! && Freemont Street LED array (was Re: Cray J932SE (was Re: Straight 8 up on Ebay just now))

[John Foust]

At 05:13 PM 7/19/2016, et...@757.org wrote:
>I'm sure you know the thing about Garth/Dana Carvey? Him mentioning the Unix 
>book in Waynes World was a nod to his brother, his brother founded NewTek the 
>company behind the Amiga video toaster and the current NewTek Tricaster stuff?

No, Brad was not the founder of NewTek.  He did do early designs of the Toaster.

- John

RE: How to get a Heathkit H8 to work with a serial terminal

[Bill Sudbrink]

Try in the SEBHC group:

se...@googlegroups.com

HP 2100A Restoration

[Hayden Kroepfl]

Hi,


I recently acquired a pair of HP 2100A minicomputers locally for very
cheap. Don't think I could get much more local that a guy literally at the
end of my street. He bought them at an auction over ten years ago, never
powered them on, and left them in his garage since. They've likely never
been powered up since they were last in regular use. The units seem to be
complete, apart from missing a few I/O cards that are written onto the top
of the power supply. I don't plan to power them up until I've taken them
apart, cleaned all the dirt and debris from them, and inspected the power
supply.

With regards to the power supply, I'm thinking my best bet would be to do a
power on with no cards in the system. Though I'm not sure if all the power
rails would even come up without a load on it, since it sounds like it may
do some power sequencing from what I've read. I was wondering if anyone has
some experience with testing a similar power supply that hasn't been run in
at least 10 years?

I'm not sure if using a variac to slowly warm up the supply and the caps
would be wise on one of these power supplies. I'm not sure how the
switching supplies would handle the low voltage at the start.

The only I/O card that was installed in both machines, besides a terminator
board in only one of them, is a serial interface made by some company with
the logo CMC. It uses a COM2502 UART which I was surprised to find a
datasheet for, however I haven't found any information on the card itself.
I have a photo of the card in the album linked below if anyone has any
information on it.

I know this email is getting a bit long, but with regards to the memory
both machines have a ID(16K) driver board, and two core modules. However
one machine has both core modules marked 02100-60052 on the bridge, and the
other has one marked 02100-60052 and the other 02100-60054. Is there any
difference between these modules? I'd assume by the 16K driver in both,
that all of the core modules are 8KW modules. Would that just be a later
revision or is one a different size?

I've taken some photos of the machines and put them here:
https://goo.gl/photos/z2tGBbNvekwrxS5L9

I'll be taking more after I make some space to start taking the units apart
for cleaning and inspection. I've also included photos of the serial
numbers and other badges on the backs if anyone knows of a resource to
decode them.

I'd very much appreciate any help or suggestions that people have. I really
want to get at least one of these machines back into full working order to
have some fun programming with.


Thanks,

Hayden K.

Re: Pictures per previous post

[Mike Ross]

Just to clarify did you 'rescue' these hoping to find good homes for
them later - or to keep for yourself?

If the former I would definitely be interested in the TI Explorer - and the RT.

Mike

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Doug Fields  wrote:
> I took these things home with me:
>
> TI Explorer II
> AT&T 3b2-1000-70 & BLIT monitor
> Commodore 64 + disk drive
> HP 85 (non-B, I think)
> Bunch of NeXT manuals and PowerPC 601/603/604 manuals
>
> Cheers,
>
> Doug
>
>> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:05 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2016 2:57 PM, "Doug Fields"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Apparently the list strips HTML out, which I didn't know.
>>>
>>> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL <
>> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL>
>>>
>>> Try that?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Doug
>>
>> TI Explorer II - someone is probably interested in that one.
>>
>



-- 

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: Pictures per previous post

[COURYHOUSE]

Doug we have a  next  cube, neat next monitor and NEXT laser  printer at  
SMECC museum but alas no manuals
 
Please  advise
 
Ed Sharpe archivist  for SMECC
 
ADDED NOTE  need  some  great  NEXT  promo stuff  to make the back  drop   
for the display of   this  setup
 
-
-
-
--
-
-
-
-
--
-
-
 
 
 
In a message dated 8/1/2016 6:31:36 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
tmfdm...@gmail.com writes:

Just to  clarify did you 'rescue' these hoping to find good homes for
them later -  or to keep for yourself?

If the former I would definitely be interested  in the TI Explorer - and 
the RT.

Mike

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at  10:23 AM, Doug Fields  wrote:
> I took these  things home with me:
>
> TI Explorer II
> AT&T  3b2-1000-70 & BLIT monitor
> Commodore 64 + disk drive
> HP 85  (non-B, I think)
> Bunch of NeXT manuals and PowerPC 601/603/604  manuals
>
> Cheers,
>
> Doug
>
>> On  Aug 1, 2016, at 6:05 PM, Glen Slick   wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2016 2:57 PM, "Doug Fields"   wrote:
>>>
>>> Apparently  the list strips HTML out, which I didn't know.
>>>
>>>  https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL <
>>  https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL>
>>>
>>>  Try that?
>>>
>>>  Cheers,
>>>
>>> Doug
>>
>> TI  Explorer II - someone is probably interested in that  one.
>>
>



--  

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay  down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for  fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or  see.'

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Fred Cisin]

    I would call Win 95 a high point also.  I lived near Toronto at 
the time and remember the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one side.


On Mon, 1 Aug 2016, Brad H wrote:
Er.. that was.. 'down one side of the CN tower'.. :)

I was trying to visualize the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one 
side of Toronto.

Re: HP 2100A Restoration

[Lyle Bickley]

Hi Hayden,

On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 19:29:05 -0600
Hayden Kroepfl  wrote:

--snip--

> With regards to the power supply, I'm thinking my best bet would be
> to do a power on with no cards in the system. Though I'm not sure if
> all the power rails would even come up without a load on it, since it
> sounds like it may do some power sequencing from what I've read. I
> was wondering if anyone has some experience with testing a similar
> power supply that hasn't been run in at least 10 years?

Those of us who have brought up HP2100s that have been stored (even in
military packaging) know the power supplies can be a "bear". The PS is
a "fold out" deal - and never used to be repaired in the field by FEs.
They were swapped with new units - and the failing supply sent back to
HP for refurbishing. The process was detailed to me by a person who sold
2100's as an OEM for many years.

That being said, they are a early design switching supply - and should
have a load when powering them on.

> I'm not sure if using a variac to slowly warm up the supply and the
> caps would be wise on one of these power supplies. I'm not sure how
> the switching supplies would handle the low voltage at the start.

I would definitely NOT use a variac on them. It's best to check the
caps (and reform if necessary) and then power it up with a load. You may
have to "gently" (as in slowly) turn the PS on and off a number of times
to work out the years of "dormancy" (reforming the capacitors that you
can't get to ;)

> The only I/O card that was installed in both machines, besides a
> terminator board in only one of them, is a serial interface made by
> some company with the logo CMC. It uses a COM2502 UART which I was
> surprised to find a datasheet for, however I haven't found any
> information on the card itself. I have a photo of the card in the
> album linked below if anyone has any information on it.

The 2100 has a weird I/O addressing scheme - so check the manual
carefully. Moving a card from one location to another in the mainframe
changes its address! That's very different from DEC (and many
others) who had switches or jumpers on boards to change addresses.
interrupts, etc.

> I know this email is getting a bit long, but with regards to the
> memory both machines have a ID(16K) driver board, and two core
> modules. However one machine has both core modules marked 02100-60052
> on the bridge, and the other has one marked 02100-60052 and the other
> 02100-60054. Is there any difference between these modules? I'd
> assume by the 16K driver in both, that all of the core modules are
> 8KW modules. Would that just be a later revision or is one a
> different size?

Look on bitsavers: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/hp/21xx/
and start reading manuals (particularly the Maintenance and Drawings).
There a wealth of information to be found there - and it's what I used
to get my 2100S running.

--snip--

> I'd very much appreciate any help or suggestions that peopleh ave. I
> really want to get at least one of these machines back into full
> working order to have some fun programming with.

HP2100 restoration is very doable.

And the 2100 has one of the best front panels going :)
Like how can you not like buttons that light up when you push them!?

Most of my problems with my 2100S were related to the power supply -
and a few related to memory.

Wishing you the best!!!

Cheers,
Lyle
-- 
73  AF6WS
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[TeoZ]

NT 4.0 was ok, but for me Windows 2000 was the coolest thing ever since I 
could  have stability AND play games on it. Playing with the W2K betas was 
fun, never got excited about a MS OS since then.


Speaking of games Windows 95 was a huge shift in the world because while I 
got used to apps on Windows 3.11 (WFW) I still had to shut down to DOS to 
play games. Win 95 integrated gaming video and sound along with joystick 
configuration and soon every game would need it to run (one OS for 
everything). There was also a huge explosion of apps for Win95 compared to 
what was around for Win3.x. I think around that time computers finally 
became common in every household so MS benefited from a huge increase in 
retail and OEM sales.


I do recall the hype of Win 95 as I purchased the 95 upgrade soon after it 
was out, and a girl I worked with got me a Win 95 mug around release day.


-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Guzis

Sent: Monday, August 01, 2016 8:46 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

On 08/01/2016 05:29 PM, Brad H wrote:



I would call Win 95 a high point also.  I lived near Toronto at the
time and remember the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one
side.  There were events everywhere.  MS was really at their zenith.
The excitement around that launch was like nothing since.  I believe
I got swept up and installed it immediately but shortly after removed
it.  Couldn't get used to the interface.  Eventually for one reason
or another I had to and did go back to it.  Wasn't the greatest or
most stable OS and was kind of a half breed at that, but man.. what I
wouldn't give to feel the anticipation again, the difference between
it and DOS.  Nothing released on either PC or Mac has come close.


Win95 for those running NT 3.51 was something of a low point.  Compared
to the latter, 95 was a cranky, bug-ridden system that was burdened by
8.3 file names, limited disk size, etc.  I remember BSOD after BSOD when
my NT system ran just fine.  By the next year, when NT 4.0 came out,
there was no comparison.

And 3.51 would run on PPC, MIPS and Alpha platforms.

--Chuck 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Fred Cisin]

 I remember BSOD after BSOD when


Well, Windoze 3.00 was swamped with UAE ("Unexpected Application Error")
One of the design goals of 3.10 was to "eliminate UAEs".
Not as hard as it sounds!  By 3.10, they were EXPECTED application errors.


98 SE  got  better
me  got  worse
XP was outstanding


A few days ago, a friend handed me ANOTHER Sony Vaio TR3 (I now have about 
a dozen).  It will not work well past XP, so that is what is on them.  I 
always configure all of them with IE, Firefox, Chrome, Open Office, and 
Putty.
The Google site will no longer download Chrome for XP!  They've been 
saying for a while that there would be no further patches, etc., but the 
actual availability of the old browser is gone!  Fortunately, slimjet.com 
has a page for download of old Chrome versions!  The installer is flawed, 
but it can be coerced into working.
Firefox 404s on its XP download, but they have an alternate page that 
works.


There are also currently available, a couple dozen free Dell Inspiron 5150 
and 5160 laptops, which also can't go past XP.  (I have seen one ALMOST 
working with 7)  (Dr. Marty is attempting to regain a living room)

(Contact info available on request)


I did  fine  with vista...


I used to teach at "Vista College"!  In summer 2006, the college changed 
its name to "Berkeley City College", which coincidentally, was right when 
Vista was coming out.  In the CIS department, we begged them to keep the 
old name, at least in parallel just for the ability to advertise, "THE 
best place to learn Vista!"



7 was better  yet.


The more that I use it, the less that I dislike it.


skipped 8 bought never installed   and used
to up to 8.1  then used to up to 10 on one system.
I am happy  with 10 just a  few things to get used to.


My Win7 Thinkpad X220 upgraded to 10, against my will!
I tried to accept it, but it just wouldn't work the way that I needed when 
I needed it.  It really munged my Handbrake queue of Doctor Who DVDs

So I rolled it back to 7.



In the archive  area we  keep at least  one...
dos 6
3.1
95
98se
xp
vista
7


DOS 1.00 was almost as good as CP/M   (and NEWDOS80, etc.)

1.10/1.25 at least supported double sided drives, and patched a few 
things.


2.00 brought sub-directories, and API for unix-style file access, 9SPT

2.10 slowed down floppy step for that F'ing Qumetrak 142  (AKA "maybe, if I skew 
FOUR sectors, . . . ")

2.11 there were some fascinating customizations by OEMs

3.00 1.2M flop and

3.10 network redirector and CD-ROMs!

3.20 720K flop

3.30 1.4M flop

3.31 >32M drives and more OEM customizations

4.00 large drives, and incompatability with Norton fUtilities

4.01 desperate patches

5.00 first major RETAILing of DOS by MICROS~1

Windows 3.10 was first to demand HIMEM.SYS (and A20), and therefore, first 
not usable on 8088 5160s. Also,  seemed to be the first that DEMANDED 
SMARTDRV, and made it obvious that Microsoft was going to have BIG 
troubles from it.
(UNRECOVERABLE data loss in the event of a disk error during write, that 
otherwise previously could be solved by trying agin on another disk or 
location)


6.00 not much changed INSIDE, but oh, what a pile of bundled stuff!


DOS 6.2x (0|1|2 according to compression) was the first version of DOS in 
which improving reliability was the most important design criteria.  (due 
to problems with SMARTDRV, that were blamed on the compression)


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800

[Chris Elmquist]

I have all kinds of SWTPC 6800 stuff here and I think I recognize your floppy 
controller as a PERCOM LFD-400 board.  These are somewhat unique because they 
are built around a sync USART (S2650) and use 10-hole hard-sector floppy media 
(just like Heath H17 and Northstar systems).

Can you see any PERCOM logo on the floppy controller board?

Are there two 2708 EPROM on that board?

Chris





On August 1, 2016 12:32:49 PM CDT, Brad H  
wrote:
>Just thought I'd send out another shout out to anyone who might have
>one of these or is familiar with them.  I've had this a while but have
>not really been able to use it, lacking a boot disk.  It also doesn't
>have the standard MSIBUG ROM.  I'm hoping maybe someone out there knows
>how I could procure the original ROMs and put this back to stock.
>I made a video showing the current 'WEEBUG' ROM in case any are curious
>or someone out there knows about it.
>Thanks!
>https://youtu.be/LY7yoAVxSrM
>
>
>
>Sent from my Samsung device

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800

[Brad H]

Thanks Chris.. yes I think you are correct.  Here is a photo of it:
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/unclefalter/media/20160520_194139_zpswkjgwf17.jpg.html
This is the CPU board.  I'm wondering why it has four EPROMs, and what the two 
unmarked do.  This is where I wish there were a manual.. or even a good pic of 
an untouched original board to compare.
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/unclefalter/media/20160520_194018_zps8odxjmid.jpg.html
I'd just settle for being able to fool around in the monitor.  But I think this 
monitor is called WEEBUG because it's very stripped down.
Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Chris Elmquist  
Date: 2016-08-01  8:14 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" , 
Brad H  
Subject: Re: Midwest Scientific Instruments 6800 

I have all kinds of SWTPC 6800 stuff here and I think I recognize your floppy 
controller as a PERCOM LFD-400 board.  These are somewhat unique because they 
are built around a sync USART (S2650) and use 10-hole hard-sector floppy media 
(just like Heath H17 and Northstar systems).

Can you see any PERCOM logo on the floppy controller board?

Are there two 2708 EPROM on that board?

Chris





On August 1, 2016 12:32:49 PM CDT, Brad H  
wrote:
>Just thought I'd send out another shout out to anyone who might have
>one of these or is familiar with them.  I've had this a while but have
>not really been able to use it, lacking a boot disk.  It also doesn't
>have the standard MSIBUG ROM.  I'm hoping maybe someone out there knows
>how I could procure the original ROMs and put this back to stock.
>I made a video showing the current 'WEEBUG' ROM in case any are curious
>or someone out there knows about it.
>Thanks!
>https://youtu.be/LY7yoAVxSrM
>
>
>
>Sent from my Samsung device

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Jerry Kemp]

Understood.   That was OS/2 2.0 for me, after I had settled into OS/2 1.3

Unix took me longer to warm up to.

Jerry



On 08/ 1/16 07:29 PM, Brad H wrote:



I would call Win 95 a high point also. I lived near Toronto at the time and
remember the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one side. There were events
everywhere. MS was really at their zenith. The excitement around that launch was
like nothing since. I believe I got swept up and installed it immediately but
shortly after removed it. Couldn't get used to the interface. Eventually for one
reason or another I had to and did go back to it. Wasn't the greatest or most
stable OS and was kind of a half breed at that, but man.. what I wouldn't give
to feel the anticipation again, the difference between it and DOS. Nothing
released on either PC or Mac has come close.
Brad

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Jerry Kemp]

On 08/ 1/16 09:47 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

 I remember BSOD after BSOD when


Well, Windoze 3.00 was swamped with UAE ("Unexpected Application Error")
One of the design goals of 3.10 was to "eliminate UAEs".
Not as hard as it sounds!  By 3.10, they were EXPECTED application errors.



:)

Are you sure?  An old friend told me that ms just renamed UAE's to GPF's. :)



Jerry




--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Brad H]

Never did try OS/2.  I had friends who were fanatics about it.  There was a big 
push back then to go to it.  When that failed they rallied to Linux.  Really 
should set up a box here with it and try it out.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Jerry Kemp  
Date: 2016-08-01  8:26 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: gene...@classiccmp.org, "discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-Topic 
Posts"  
Subject: Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point' 

Understood.   That was OS/2 2.0 for me, after I had settled into OS/2 1.3

Unix took me longer to warm up to.

Jerry



On 08/ 1/16 07:29 PM, Brad H wrote:
>
>
> I would call Win 95 a high point also. I lived near Toronto at the time and
> remember the unfurling of a huge Win 95 banner down one side. There were 
> events
> everywhere. MS was really at their zenith. The excitement around that launch 
> was
> like nothing since. I believe I got swept up and installed it immediately but
> shortly after removed it. Couldn't get used to the interface. Eventually for 
> one
> reason or another I had to and did go back to it. Wasn't the greatest or most
> stable OS and was kind of a half breed at that, but man.. what I wouldn't give
> to feel the anticipation again, the difference between it and DOS. Nothing
> released on either PC or Mac has come close.
> Brad
>

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Chuck Guzis]

On 08/01/2016 08:32 PM, Brad H wrote:

> Never did try OS/2.  I had friends who were fanatics about it.  There
> was a big push back then to go to it.  When that failed they rallied
> to Linux.  Really should set up a box here with it and try it out.

I was an OS/2 developer from about 1.1 to Warp 3.  One thing that
impressed me about the whole package was the almost painstakingly
clearly-written documentation for developers.  This was when a devkit
for OS/2 was a big box full of manuals and lots of floppies.

Sadly, I can't claim that Microsoft exhibited the same amount of care
with Windows documentation.

--Chuck

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Fred Cisin]

 I remember BSOD after BSOD when

Well, Windoze 3.00 was swamped with UAE ("Unexpected Application Error")
One of the design goals of 3.10 was to "eliminate UAEs".
Not as hard as it sounds!  By 3.10, they were EXPECTED application errors.


On Mon, 1 Aug 2016, Jerry Kemp wrote:

:)
Are you sure?  An old friend told me that ms just renamed UAE's to GPF's. :)


That is, indeed, the name that they gave to the expected application 
errors.

DEC Rack near Portland Oregon

[Pete Lancashire]

Has Orange/Purple decorative top in good shape. No sides, door etc.

I don't have it but it will be up for sale, I think they are asking around
$50.

Let me know if anyone is interested and I can pass the info on

-pete

Re: Pictures per previous post

[Doug Fields]

It's still there for you. :)

--
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:28 PM, killingsworth.t...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Drat.  I've always wanted to go poking around a Sun Graphics tower.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:23 PM, Doug Fields  wrote:
>> 
>> I took these things home with me:
>> 
>> TI Explorer II
>> AT&T 3b2-1000-70 & BLIT monitor
>> Commodore 64 + disk drive
>> HP 85 (non-B, I think)
>> Bunch of NeXT manuals and PowerPC 601/603/604 manuals
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
>>> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:05 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Aug 1, 2016 2:57 PM, "Doug Fields"  wrote:
 
 Apparently the list strips HTML out, which I didn't know.
 
 https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL <
>>> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0ZGWZuqDGXYWQL>
 
 Try that?
 
 Cheers,
 
 Doug
>>> 
>>> TI Explorer II - someone is probably interested in that one.
> 

Re: DEC Rack near Portland Oregon

[Joshua Stetson]

I may be interested. I've been looking for a rack for my DEC equipment. Are
they needing it picked up soon? I'm in Seattle.

Josh

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> Has Orange/Purple decorative top in good shape. No sides, door etc.
>
> I don't have it but it will be up for sale, I think they are asking around
> $50.
>
> Let me know if anyone is interested and I can pass the info on
>
> -pete
>

Re: MicroVax II (Doug)

[Douglas Taylor]

On 8/1/2016 11:26 AM, John H. Reinhardt wrote:

On 7/31/2016 10:38 PM, Douglas Taylor wrote:


That sounds good.  BTW, where do I go to get the VMS hobbyist license
PAKS and downloads?  I'm running into dead links.

Doug


Things recently (last few months) changed and the OpenVMS Hobbyist 
licenses are now handled by the HPE office in India.  The URL for the 
application is 


When you choose a chapter for "Participating Chapter" choose 
"DECUSERVE" if you don't belong to one.  Then telnet (no SSH) to 
eisner.decuserve.com where you will get a login page and choose the 
"REGISTRATION" option. This will get you a DECUS member number that 
you can supply for the hobbyist license. Once you are logged into the 
system you can find your membership number by typing the command 
"HOBBYIST"


Once you get your reply from HPE then you can also reply to that email 
and ask for the FTP credentials to download a VMS 7.3 VAX install disk 
image or Alpha or IA64 for that matter - just ask for all that you want.


Remember that when you apply it is going to India so plan for the 
timezone and weekend change accordingly.



John H. Reinhardt

Thanks, I telneted into eisner and used my DECUS number from 2002.  I  
entered that in the www.hpe.com webpage, and am waiting for a response.


Back in 2002 I got the VMS 7.2 media, PAKS and layered products, but a 
lot has changed since then.  I can't find my media, but maybe I don't 
need it.


At this point I am awaiting the SCSI2SD adapter to use in the MVII.  I 
also have a MV 4000/400 I need to get current license PAKS for.


Doug

Re: MicroVax II

[Douglas Taylor]

On 7/29/2016 10:30 PM, Jerry Weiss wrote:

On Jul 29, 2016, at 8:30 PM, Zane Healy  wrote:



On Jul 29, 2016, at 6:08 PM, Douglas Taylor  wrote:

I just got a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box chassis.  I has a TK50, RX50, 
RXDQ2, but no DEQNA.  I'd like to get it running an OS.

The DU disks don't work, but I have a couple of Qbus SCSI controllers that 
might come in handy.

Can you use those SD to SCSI convertors in this type of configuration?  Anyone 
have experience with this?

What OS's can I use with this hardware?  NetBSD?  Are versions of VMS 
available?  How do you get an OS onto this system?

The all around best choice would be VAX/VMS v5.5-2.  You can get Hobbyist 
licenses.  The OS was available as part of the Hobbyist program.  If you add a 
SCSI adapter, you can hopefully attach a CD.  IIRC, it will run up to either 
v7.2 or 7.3, at least I know I had v7.2 on a MicroVAX III (well, technically I 
still do, if it will boot).

Ultrix would also be available.

What I did though was I gave it a brain transplant, and converted mine to a 
PDP-11 once I got a better VAX.

I need to invest in a couple of those SD adapters myself.  I’d really like to 
put one on one of my AlphaStation 200 4/233’s.  Hopefully they’ll still work.  
It’s been years since I’ve done anything with my DEC HW. :-(


I have booted both V7.3 and V5.5-2  off a 4GB SD with SCSI2SD V4.6 on a 
MicroVax II with 16 Mb. Note that DEQNA will not work (at all) on either 
version.  You’ll need a DELQA.

You should be able to build a system with an emulator and then copy the binary 
to an SD card. i’ve taken images both ways without problems.   Alternately if 
you get a DELQA, you can netboot off of another Vaxen and build an bootable 
disk that way.

Jerry


The MVII I have has no network card so I may have to prepare the SD card 
using an emulator.  I waiting for the SCSI2SD adapter and the Hobbyist 
License access at this point.


Doug

Re: HP 2100A Restoration

[Pete Lancashire]

With the supplies being switchers do not use a autotransfomer (Variac). If
they were mine I would replace the caps even if it meant speing $100 or so
and waiting. And being switchers they will need a minimum load to operate
correctly.

-pete

On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Lyle Bickley 
wrote:

> Hi Hayden,
>
> On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 19:29:05 -0600
> Hayden Kroepfl  wrote:
>
> --snip--
>
> > With regards to the power supply, I'm thinking my best bet would be
> > to do a power on with no cards in the system. Though I'm not sure if
> > all the power rails would even come up without a load on it, since it
> > sounds like it may do some power sequencing from what I've read. I
> > was wondering if anyone has some experience with testing a similar
> > power supply that hasn't been run in at least 10 years?
>
> Those of us who have brought up HP2100s that have been stored (even in
> military packaging) know the power supplies can be a "bear". The PS is
> a "fold out" deal - and never used to be repaired in the field by FEs.
> They were swapped with new units - and the failing supply sent back to
> HP for refurbishing. The process was detailed to me by a person who sold
> 2100's as an OEM for many years.
>
> That being said, they are a early design switching supply - and should
> have a load when powering them on.
>
> > I'm not sure if using a variac to slowly warm up the supply and the
> > caps would be wise on one of these power supplies. I'm not sure how
> > the switching supplies would handle the low voltage at the start.
>
> I would definitely NOT use a variac on them. It's best to check the
> caps (and reform if necessary) and then power it up with a load. You may
> have to "gently" (as in slowly) turn the PS on and off a number of times
> to work out the years of "dormancy" (reforming the capacitors that you
> can't get to ;)
>
> > The only I/O card that was installed in both machines, besides a
> > terminator board in only one of them, is a serial interface made by
> > some company with the logo CMC. It uses a COM2502 UART which I was
> > surprised to find a datasheet for, however I haven't found any
> > information on the card itself. I have a photo of the card in the
> > album linked below if anyone has any information on it.
>
> The 2100 has a weird I/O addressing scheme - so check the manual
> carefully. Moving a card from one location to another in the mainframe
> changes its address! That's very different from DEC (and many
> others) who had switches or jumpers on boards to change addresses.
> interrupts, etc.
>
> > I know this email is getting a bit long, but with regards to the
> > memory both machines have a ID(16K) driver board, and two core
> > modules. However one machine has both core modules marked 02100-60052
> > on the bridge, and the other has one marked 02100-60052 and the other
> > 02100-60054. Is there any difference between these modules? I'd
> > assume by the 16K driver in both, that all of the core modules are
> > 8KW modules. Would that just be a later revision or is one a
> > different size?
>
> Look on bitsavers: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/hp/21xx/
> and start reading manuals (particularly the Maintenance and Drawings).
> There a wealth of information to be found there - and it's what I used
> to get my 2100S running.
>
> --snip--
>
> > I'd very much appreciate any help or suggestions that peopleh ave. I
> > really want to get at least one of these machines back into full
> > working order to have some fun programming with.
>
> HP2100 restoration is very doable.
>
> And the 2100 has one of the best front panels going :)
> Like how can you not like buttons that light up when you push them!?
>
> Most of my problems with my 2100S were related to the power supply -
> and a few related to memory.
>
> Wishing you the best!!!
>
> Cheers,
> Lyle
> --
> 73  AF6WS
> Bickley Consulting West Inc.
> http://bickleywest.com
>
> "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
>
>

Re: HP 2100A Restoration

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On 8/1/2016 6:29 PM, Hayden Kroepfl wrote:

Hi,


I recently acquired a pair of HP 2100A minicomputers locally for very
cheap. Don't think I could get much more local that a guy literally at the
end of my street. He bought them at an auction over ten years ago, never
powered them on, and left them in his garage since. They've likely never
been powered up since they were last in regular use. The units seem to be
complete, apart from missing a few I/O cards that are written onto the top
of the power supply. I don't plan to power them up until I've taken them
apart, cleaned all the dirt and debris from them, and inspected the power
supply.

With regards to the power supply, I'm thinking my best bet would be to do a
power on with no cards in the system. Though I'm not sure if all the power
rails would even come up without a load on it, since it sounds like it may
do some power sequencing from what I've read. I was wondering if anyone has
some experience with testing a similar power supply that hasn't been run in
at least 10 years?

I'm not sure if using a variac to slowly warm up the supply and the caps
would be wise on one of these power supplies. I'm not sure how the
switching supplies would handle the low voltage at the start.

The only I/O card that was installed in both machines, besides a terminator
board in only one of them, is a serial interface made by some company with
the logo CMC. It uses a COM2502 UART which I was surprised to find a
datasheet for, however I haven't found any information on the card itself.
I have a photo of the card in the album linked below if anyone has any
information on it.

I know this email is getting a bit long, but with regards to the memory
both machines have a ID(16K) driver board, and two core modules. However
one machine has both core modules marked 02100-60052 on the bridge, and the
other has one marked 02100-60052 and the other 02100-60054. Is there any
difference between these modules? I'd assume by the 16K driver in both,
that all of the core modules are 8KW modules. Would that just be a later
revision or is one a different size?

I've taken some photos of the machines and put them here:
https://goo.gl/photos/z2tGBbNvekwrxS5L9

I'll be taking more after I make some space to start taking the units apart
for cleaning and inspection. I've also included photos of the serial
numbers and other badges on the backs if anyone knows of a resource to
decode them.

I'd very much appreciate any help or suggestions that people have. I really
want to get at least one of these machines back into full working order to
have some fun programming with.


Thanks,

Hayden K.



It's a low frequency, 800Hz IIRC, switcher so don't use a Variac and do 
have a load.


There's a separate manual for the power supply: 
02100-60053_PowerSupplyFor2100And2155A_OperatingAndServiceManual_5951-3038_199pages_Apr74.pdf

(from bitsavers). It has everything you need.

There's a bunch of small electrolytic capacitors on the Inhibit Driver 
Load Card, A106, that needed to be reformed before my memory would work 
reliably.
They reformed themselves in one of my units. I had memory errors for an 
hour or so then they went away. On other units, I reformed the caps 
(took the board
out and slowly brought it up on a bench supply), and had no memory 
errors at first power up of the system.


Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

RE: HP 2100A Restoration

[tony duell]

You need to get all the service and diagrams manuals for this machine.
I think they are on bitsavers and the Australian HP museum site. You 
probably should go through both of said sites.


> With regards to the power supply, I'm thinking my best bet would be to do a
> power on with no cards in the system. Though I'm not sure if all the power
> rails would even come up without a load on it, since it sounds like it may
> do some power sequencing from what I've read. I was wondering if anyone has
> some experience with testing a similar power supply that hasn't been run in
> at least 10 years?
> 
> I'm not sure if using a variac to slowly warm up the supply and the caps
> would be wise on one of these power supplies. I'm not sure how the
> switching supplies would handle the low voltage at the start.

It's an early-ish, somewhat unconventional, and rather complicated switch
mode PSU. It has its own service manual (the CPU manual does not cover
it), which is available from at least one of the sites I mentioned. IIRC the 
manual gives an initial startup/test procedure. You do run it up on a 
variac, I think, but not in the obvious way. There are separate mains
inputs for the PSU control circuitry (which has its own internal linear
PSU) and the choppers. You get the first one going, and then run up
the choppers. IIRC you do use a dummy load (that is mentioned in
the manual) and one part of the test even involves shorting out some 
of the outputs.


> I know this email is getting a bit long, but with regards to the memory
> both machines have a ID(16K) driver board, and two core modules. However
> one machine has both core modules marked 02100-60052 on the bridge, and the
> other has one marked 02100-60052 and the other 02100-60054. Is there any
> difference between these modules? I'd assume by the 16K driver in both,
> that all of the core modules are 8KW modules. Would that just be a later
> revision or is one a different size?

That is the part number for the top connector board, not the core memory
itself. Electrically the 2 top connectors are identical (pin-pin wired I 
think). But
due to the fact that the top edge fingers on the core board are not aligned
with the bottom edge fingers (the core plane is a separate unit, you will 
see what I mean if you pull the boards), the spacing of the edge connectors
on the 2 types of top connector is different. The manual shows which to use
where.

-tony

Re: HP 2100A Restoration

[Lyle Bickley]

On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 22:11:17 -0700
Bob Rosenbloom  wrote:

--snip--

> There's a bunch of small electrolytic capacitors on the Inhibit
> Driver Load Card, A106, that needed to be reformed before my memory
> would work reliably.

> They reformed themselves in one of my units. I had memory errors for
> an hour or so then they went away. On other units, I reformed the
> caps (took the board

> out and slowly brought it up on a bench supply), and had no memory 
> errors at first power up of the system.
> 
> Bob

I had exactly the same problem with the capacitors on a spare Inhibit
Driver Load Card. Most would not reform so I just replaced them with
modern caps. The board (and memory) worked perfectly after that.

Lyle
-- 
73  AF6WS
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

Re: Bill Gates: Windows 95 Was 'A High Point'

[Cameron Kaiser]

> Win95 for those running NT 3.51 was something of a low point.  Compared
> to the latter, 95 was a cranky, bug-ridden system that was burdened by
> 8.3 file names, limited disk size, etc.  I remember BSOD after BSOD when
> my NT system ran just fine.  By the next year, when NT 4.0 came out,
> there was no comparison.
> 
> And 3.51 would run on PPC, MIPS and Alpha platforms.

So did 4.0. Early betas of 2000 still ran on Alpha and some others, IIRC,
though I believe the PowerPC port was dropped around then.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Chaos reigns within/Reflect, repent and reboot;/Order shall return. 

In search of: Fairlight CMI series I or II

[Ian Finder]

I know, I know... But I figured I'd try here anyway. Any condition is okay
with me. Willing to pay market rates.

Cheers,

- Ian

-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: In search of: Fairlight CMI series I or II

[Chris Pye]

> On 2 Aug 2016, at 4:49 pm, Ian Finder  wrote:
> 
> I know, I know... But I figured I'd try here anyway. Any condition is okay
> with me. Willing to pay market rates.

I realise it’s not completely relevant, but I recently sold off my Fairlight 
CVI. I hung onto it for years because I really like early(ish) digital video 
systems, and am very fond of the MC6809.

I miss it, but needed the money at the time.

A CMI would be nice, I also like early EMU gear..


Chris..