Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[David Coudron]

And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video 
after I realized it was installed upside down  

Regards,

David Coudron

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where 
someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.

That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't 
mine.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Jetpack

[Mike Hammett]

Local Fox news != Fox News 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2020 4:20:25 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Jetpack 

Two things: 

1. It's LA. 

2. It's Fox News in LA. 


bp 
 

On 9/1/2020 2:07 PM, Nate Burke wrote: 
> Just saw this story in the local paper. #1, I didn't realize jetpacks 
> were so prevelant. #2, it seems like flying this close to a plane is 
> just stupid. 
> 
> LOS ANGELES -- The Federal Aviation Administration said Tuesday it is 
> investigating reports from airline pilots that someone was flying in a 
> jetpack as they approached Los Angeles International Airport to land 
> last weekend. 
> 
> Two airline flight crews reported seeing what appeared to be someone 
> in a jetpack as they were on their final approaches to LAX around 6:35 
> p.m. PDT Sunday,' the FAA said. 
> 
> The statement did not elaborate. 
> 
> Fox 11 Los Angeles obtained recordings of communications between the 
> aircraft and the tower. 
> 
> 'Tower, American 1997, we just passed a guy in a jetpack,' a pilot said. 
> 
> 'American 1997, OK, thank you, were they off to your left side or your 
> right side?' the controller asked. 
> 
> 'Off the left side at maybe 300 yards or so at our altitude,' the 
> pilot said. 
> 
> Another pilot also reported a sighting. 
> 
> 'We just saw the guy pass by us in the jetpack,' he said. 
> 
> The controller then advised another aircraft flight crew to use caution. 
> 
> 'Person in a jetpack reported 300 yards south of the LA final at about 
> 3,000 feet (914 meters), 10-mile (16-kilometer) final,' the 
> controller said. 
> 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Ken Hohhof]

I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).

And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it upside
down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you
really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
after I realized it was installed upside down  

Regards,

David Coudron

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where
someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.

That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't
mine.
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Matt Hoppes]

Yes. 

> On Sep 2, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).
> 
> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it upside
> down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you
> really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
> 
> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
> after I realized it was installed upside down  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David Coudron
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
> 
> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where
> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
> 
> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't
> mine.
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Vrrp

[Josh Baird]

Yes - the VRRP should be a /32.  Typical configuration looks like this:

Router1:

ether1:  192.168.1.2/24
vrrp.ether1:  192.168.1.1/32

Router2:

ether1: 192.168.1.3/24
vrrp.ether1:  192.168.1.1/32

Your VRRP interface (192.168.1.1/32) should be a /32, and it should be on
the same subnet as your "physical" interfaces.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 11:06 PM Rhys Cuff (Speedweb Internet) via AF <
af@af.afmug.com> wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
>
>
> Has anyone had much experience with using Vrrp on a Mikrotik?
>
> It seemed pretty easy to setup but the manual said the floating IP must be
> a /32 and to put an IP on the physical interface with a /24
>
> This seemed wrong so I just put a /24 on the Vrrp interface and a
> completely different subnet on the physical interface for the routers to
> communicate.
>
>
>
> Thinking I was clever all was well till about 1am two days after I did
> this, then it completely failed, switching back and forth from master to
> backup, basically having two masters on and off.
>
>
>
> Is having a /32 on the vrrp really necessary, if so why?
>
> Why would it have been all good for two days?
>
>
>
> So my config that lasted two days
>
> Vrrp 192.168.1.1/24 (floating IP I care about)
>
> Physical 10.0.1.1/24  (to communicate with master/backup routers)
>
>
>
> How the manual says to do it
>
> Vrrp 192.168.1.1/32
>
> Physical 192.168.1.2/24
>
>
>
> Doing it the second way will mean a lot more IP’s/config as I want to have
> around 20 floating IP’s
>
>
>
> Thanks again for any help.
>
>
>
> Rhys
>
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Ken Hohhof]

Maybe it's like "AMBULANCE" backwards so it reads correctly in a mirror.

 



 

And explain to me why things in mirrors are backwards but not upside down.

 

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 7:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

Yes. 

 

> On Sep 2, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Ken Hohhof <  
> af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> 

> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for 

> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly 

> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).

> 

> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it 

> upside down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside 

> down.  Would you really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo 
> rightside up?

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: AF <  af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On 
> Behalf Of David Coudron

> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM

> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <  
> af@af.afmug.com>

> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

> 

> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional 

> video after I realized it was installed upside down

> 

> Regards,

> 

> David Coudron

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: AF <  af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On 
> Behalf Of Matt Hoppes

> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM

> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <  
> af@af.afmug.com>

> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

> 

> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot 

> where someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.

> 

> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it 

> wasn't mine.

> --

> AF mailing list

>   AF@af.afmug.com

>   
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

> 

> 

> 

> --

> AF mailing list

>   AF@af.afmug.com

>   
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Andrew Haninger]

Henry delivers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4dOPxKgrY

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:14 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Maybe it's like "AMBULANCE" backwards so it reads correctly in a mirror.
>
>
>
> [image: A close up of a fire oven Description automatically generated]
>
>
>
> And explain to me why things in mirrors are backwards but not upside down.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Steve Jones]

We had some upside down because the plastic screws strip so easily

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 8:23 AM Andrew Haninger  wrote:

> Henry delivers.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4dOPxKgrY
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:14 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Maybe it's like "AMBULANCE" backwards so it reads correctly in a mirror.
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: A close up of a fire oven Description automatically generated]
>>
>>
>>
>> And explain to me why things in mirrors are backwards but not upside down.
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Ken Hohhof]

OK, I’m gonna have to watch that again after some caffeine.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Andrew Haninger
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

Henry delivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4dOPxKgrY

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:14 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Maybe it's like "AMBULANCE" backwards so it reads correctly in a mirror.

 



 

And explain to me why things in mirrors are backwards but not upside down.

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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Chuck McCown]

Me too.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2020, at 6:30 AM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes. 
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
>> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
>> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).
>> 
>> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it upside
>> down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you
>> really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>> 
>> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
>> after I realized it was installed upside down  
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> David Coudron
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>> 
>> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where
>> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>> 
>> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't
>> mine.
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Robert]

That was really a mind bender to go through in the morning before 
coffee...  Kinda like doing college physics all over in your 60's...


On 9/2/20 6:22 AM, Andrew Haninger wrote:

Henry delivers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4dOPxKgrY

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:14 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Maybe it's like "AMBULANCE" backwards so it reads correctly in a
mirror.

A close up of a fire oven Description automatically generated

And explain to me why things in mirrors are backwards but not
upside down.




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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Ken Hohhof]

I think cable news has made us all stupid, we need the chyrons to explain it at 
an 8th grade level and tell us what to think.

 

Seems like what he is saying is that we see ourselves in a mirror from the 
perspective of our side of the mirror, so basically from behind us.  If our 
head was transparent, we would be seeing our face from the back, and our right 
eye would be on the right, whereas when someone looks at us from the front our 
right eye is actually on their left.

 

Maybe that’s the real puzzle – when I look at you, why is your right eye on the 
left?  OMG, the mirror isn’t backwards, real life is backwards!

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:08 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

That was really a mind bender to go through in the morning before coffee...  
Kinda like doing college physics all over in your 60's...

On 9/2/20 6:22 AM, Andrew Haninger wrote:

Henry delivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4dOPxKgrY

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:14 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Maybe it's like "AMBULANCE" backwards so it reads correctly in a mirror.

 



 

And explain to me why things in mirrors are backwards but not upside down.





 

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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Bill Prince]

  
  
The simplest explanation is that the mirror doesn't flip left,
  right, up, or down; it simply reflects.
It's us that flip left and right when we turn around. If we
  turned around by standing on our heads, the up/down would be
  reversed.


bp



On 9/2/2020 9:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I think cable news has made us all stupid,
  we need the chyrons to explain it at an 8th grade level and
  tell us what to think.
 
Seems like what he is saying is that we see
  ourselves in a mirror from the perspective of our side of the
  mirror, so basically from behind us.  If our head was
  transparent, we would be seeing our face from the back, and
  our right eye would be on the right, whereas when someone
  looks at us from the front our right eye is actually on their
  left.
 
Maybe that’s the real puzzle – when I look
  at you, why is your right eye on the left?  OMG, the mirror
  isn’t backwards, real life is backwards!
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:08 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
  

 
That was really a mind bender to
  go through in the morning before coffee...  Kinda like
  doing college physics all over in your 60's...

  On 9/2/20 6:22 AM, Andrew Haninger wrote:


  

  Henry delivers.


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4dOPxKgrY


   


  
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:14 AM Ken
  Hohhof 
  wrote:
  
  

  
Maybe
  it's like "AMBULANCE" backwards so it reads
  correctly in a mirror.
 

 
And
  explain to me why things in mirrors are backwards
  but not upside down.
  

  

  
  



 
  
  
  

  

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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Caleb Knauer]

They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
>
> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
>
> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).
>
>
>
> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it
> upside
>
> down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you
>
> really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
>
> after I realized it was installed upside down
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where
>
> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>
>
>
> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it
> wasn't
>
> mine.
>
> --
>
> AF mailing list
>
> AF@af.afmug.com
>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> AF mailing list
>
> AF@af.afmug.com
>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ultra low latency PTP

[Caleb Knauer]

Yeah we’re taking to them. It’s not HFT but similar idea.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM Daniel White  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Oh
>
> HFT.  Fun stuff.
>
> Martins Dzelda at SAF is the guy to talk to.
> martins.dze...@saftehnika.com
>
> Everything
>
> I could say is probably under NDA so nyet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder &
>
> Managing Director of Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Caleb Knauer 
> September
>
> 1, 2020 at 08:36
>
>
>
> Anybody
>
> here up to date on current ultra low latency licensed PTP gear?  Like
>
> in HFT networks. Trying to round up the current players.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Adam Moffett]

Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like 
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.


School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be a hot 
item.


-Adam



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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Steve Jones]

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i
dont know if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto
scales. I would actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it to
ramp up resolutions, etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe find the
absolute minimum requirements and QOS that as the min

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like
> a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.
>
> School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be a hot
> item.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Adam Moffett]

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for 
the video.


Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple 
thinks iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).



On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i 
dont know if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto 
scales. I would actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it 
to ramp up resolutions, etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe 
find the absolute minimum requirements and QOS that as the min


On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it? 
Like
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.

School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be
a hot
item.

-Adam



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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Ken Hohhof]

If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize everything.  
It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, what’s the point?

 

I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably a control 
channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 8801.  Not sure if 
you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2 adults all Zooming, 
if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for the 
video.

Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple thinks 
iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).

 

On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i dont know 
if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto scales. I would 
actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it to ramp up resolutions, 
etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe find the absolute minimum 
requirements and QOS that as the min

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like 
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.

School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be a hot 
item.

-Adam



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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Chuck McCown]

Peel off and leave it or put your own on.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Caleb Knauer  wrote:
> 
> 
> They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
>> 
>> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
>> 
>> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it upside
>> 
>> down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you
>> 
>> really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
>> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
>> 
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
>> 
>> after I realized it was installed upside down  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> David Coudron
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
>> 
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where
>> 
>> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't
>> 
>> mine.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> AF mailing list
>> 
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> AF mailing list
>> 
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Adam Moffett]

Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.

Netflix also isn't zoom.

So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what 
you say is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households' 
Netflix and Chill then QoS can address that.



On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize 
everything.  It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, 
what’s the point?


I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably 
a control channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 
8801.  Not sure if you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and 
maybe 1 or 2 adults all Zooming, if additional ports get used, kind of 
like VoIP using 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for 
the video.


Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like 
Apple thinks iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).


On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own.
i dont know if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it
auto scales. I would actually be concerned about prioritizing it
causing it to ramp up resolutions, etc and cause more net demand.
unless maybe find the absolute minimum requirements and QOS that
as the min

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing
it?  Like
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.

School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might
be a hot
item.

-Adam



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[AFMUG] mediatemple geolocation

[Steve Jones]

We got  anew netblock back in January. Did the geolocation thing,
havent gotten the full RIR IRR done with ARIN yet, they just went to online
input, but i dont know

Other than www.ipligence.com, all the ones on the brotherswisp list got
updated way back then with geolocation. www.ipligence.com still shows the
block in canada. we waited a few months before deploying.

We do use a couple IPs in this block for NAT, but for the most part its
being distributed to eliminate out NAT altogether.

We have had a couple finicky sites that dont like this space when its NAT,
theyre fine when its direct allocation. so any nat customer who cant get to
the sites that is still NAT just gets moved to a direct allocation and its
fine. one site, in particular, a local franchise credit union flags the NAT
all the time. but now it just started flagging the direct allocation public
IP.

The last time I called this place tech support it was some 85 year old lady
who is their IT, this was to do with a bitcoin wallet, and IP blocking,
that wallet is now locked

But finally a customer got a detailed error message. It looks like this is
a mediatemple hosted site and mediatemple firewall issue. Is there a place
to check IP reputation at mediacom temple and get my netblocks whitelisted?
Any idea what MediaTemple uses to geolocate/ip reputation check?

Also, what exactly do i need in the IRR, we have 2 /22, we peer with two
providers and distribute the netblocks as /24s

This is the error the users are getting.

Access Denied - MediaTemple Website Firewall
If you are the site owner (or you manage this site), please whitelist your
IP or if you think this block is an error please open a support ticket and
make sure to include the block details (displayed in the box below), so we
can assist you in troubleshooting the issue.
Block details:
Your IP: x,x,x,x
URL: socu.org/
Your Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/84.0.4147.135 Safari/537.36
Block ID: GEO02
Block reason: Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator.
Time: 2020-09-01 18:01:40
Server ID: 20006
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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Steve Jones]

we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a file
getting uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been
communicating with has said its been working flawlessly. is zoom related to
skype in its back end?

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.
>
> Netflix also isn't zoom.
>
> So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what you
> say is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households' Netflix
> and Chill then QoS can address that.
>
>
> On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize
> everything.  It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, what’s
> the point?
>
>
>
> I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably a
> control channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 8801.
> Not sure if you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2
> adults all Zooming, if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using
> 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS
>
>
>
> Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for the
> video.
>
> Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple
> thinks iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).
>
>
>
> On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i
> dont know if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto
> scales. I would actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it to
> ramp up resolutions, etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe find the
> absolute minimum requirements and QOS that as the min
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like
> a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.
>
> School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be a hot
> item.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Steve Jones]

best if you can get a nice foil sticker so it lasts longer

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:27 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Peel off and leave it or put your own on.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Caleb Knauer  wrote:
>
> 
> They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
>>
>> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
>>
>> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).
>>
>>
>>
>> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it
>> upside
>>
>> down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would
>> you
>>
>> really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
>>
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>>
>>
>>
>> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
>>
>> after I realized it was installed upside down
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
>>
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>>
>>
>>
>> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot
>> where
>>
>> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>>
>>
>>
>> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it
>> wasn't
>>
>> mine.
>>
>> --
>>
>> AF mailing list
>>
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> AF mailing list
>>
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Ken Hohhof]

Now that I think of it, we’ve put up several 2 ft 11 GHz Radiowaves dishes this 
year and I don’t think any of them had logos on the radomes.  Neither 
pre-applied nor in the box.

 

We also put up some 1 ft 18 GHz Andrew/Commscope dishes and those also had no 
logo.  No Andrew lightning bolt either.  But those are very small dishes.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

Peel off and leave it or put your own on.

Sent from my iPhone





On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Caleb Knauer mailto:cknauer.li...@gmail.com> > wrote:



They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for

Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly

assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).



And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it upside

down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you

really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?



-Original Message-

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of David Coudron

Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??



And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video

after I realized it was installed upside down  



Regards,



David Coudron



-Original Message-

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes

Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >

Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??



I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where

someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.



That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't

mine.

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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Adam Moffett]

I haven't had any specific problems with Zoombut looking at a 
situation for helping a local school district.


I thought it might be useful to say that I *could* prioritize Zoom.  
Whether or not I would really need to is less important than whether I 
can give them warm and fuzzy feelings about it.



On 9/2/2020 2:41 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a 
file getting uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been 
communicating with has said its been working flawlessly. is zoom 
related to skype in its back end?


On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new
normal.

Netflix also isn't zoom.

So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then
what you say is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other
households' Netflix and Chill then QoS can address that.


On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize
everything.  It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses,
what’s the point?

I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP
presumably a control channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on
something like port 8801.  Not sure if you have 3 or 4 students
in the same house and maybe 1 or 2 adults all Zooming, if
additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using 5060, 5061,
5062, etc.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and
40 for the video.

Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though
(like Apple thinks iPhone software updates need expedited
forwarding).

On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their
own. i dont know if its a school setting, or a default, but
it seems it auto scales. I would actually be concerned about
prioritizing it causing it to ramp up resolutions, etc and
cause more net demand. unless maybe find the absolute minimum
requirements and QOS that as the min

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for
prioritizing it?  Like
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.

School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this
might be a hot
item.

-Adam



-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Steve Jones]

we did a couple 11ghz mimosa links with 2 footers a couple years back, the
logo was vinyl and blue at the time.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:47 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Now that I think of it, we’ve put up several 2 ft 11 GHz Radiowaves dishes
> this year and I don’t think any of them had logos on the radomes.  Neither
> pre-applied nor in the box.
>
>
>
> We also put up some 1 ft 18 GHz Andrew/Commscope dishes and those also had
> no logo.  No Andrew lightning bolt either.  But those are very small dishes.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:27 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> Peel off and leave it or put your own on.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Caleb Knauer  wrote:
>
> 
>
> They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
>
> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
>
> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).
>
>
>
> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it
> upside
>
> down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you
>
> really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
>
> after I realized it was installed upside down
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where
>
> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>
>
>
> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it
> wasn't
>
> mine.
>
> --
>
> AF mailing list
>
> AF@af.afmug.com
>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> AF mailing list
>
> AF@af.afmug.com
>
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>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Steve Jones]

i wonder if setting a set QOS for zoom, like 1mbps, whatever is required
for minimal acceptable performance, then prioritize that QOS.
Tiered QOS would be dreamy, like as load increases overall minimum QOS
decreases for that specific target, is that a thing?
but then that sets resolution expectations and when it has to throttle
down, the complaints call.
I do that with my kids, start them with low expectations so it appears im
always overperforming. Started feeding them ever other day, so then when i
let them out of the cage to eat every day it was like they were getting the
kings treatment

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:50 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I haven't had any specific problems with Zoombut looking at a
> situation for helping a local school district.
>
> I thought it might be useful to say that I *could* prioritize Zoom.
> Whether or not I would really need to is less important than whether I can
> give them warm and fuzzy feelings about it.
>
>
> On 9/2/2020 2:41 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a file
> getting uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been
> communicating with has said its been working flawlessly. is zoom related to
> skype in its back end?
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.
>>
>> Netflix also isn't zoom.
>>
>> So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what
>> you say is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households'
>> Netflix and Chill then QoS can address that.
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize
>> everything.  It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, what’s
>> the point?
>>
>>
>>
>> I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably a
>> control channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 8801.
>> Not sure if you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2
>> adults all Zooming, if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using
>> 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS
>>
>>
>>
>> Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for
>> the video.
>>
>> Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple
>> thinks iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i
>> dont know if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto
>> scales. I would actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it to
>> ramp up resolutions, etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe find the
>> absolute minimum requirements and QOS that as the min
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like
>> a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.
>>
>> School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be a hot
>> item.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Ken Hohhof]

In theory the upstream bandwidth could be a problem, because Zoom says they 
need a little over 1 Mbps both directions.

 

What I’ve actually seen is adults working from home typically have a steady 1M 
symmetric during a video conference.  School kids on the other hand are all 
over the map.  The traffic isn’t constant, and the upstream seems a lot less.  
I think it may depend on how they have it set up, like do you see the whole 
class in thumbnails.  And the upstream may only go to a big number when the 
teacher calls on that student?

 

One thing’s for sure, you get a house with WiFi coverage issues and a whole 
bunch of Zoomers, and they’re going to be calling and bugging the crap out of 
us.  It’s similar to gamers who call saying things like it’s freezing or 
lagging or there’s audio but no video or one kid is fine but the other can’t 
get on.  And it’s an existential crisis that has to be fixed right now this 
nanosecond and you hear the kids yelling at the mom in the background.  Some 
problems are people on the lowest speed plan with insufficient upstream, but 
others I’m not sure what their problem is.  One is saying only one of their 
kids can Zoom but their neighbor on our service and the same speed plan has 4 
Zooming no problem.  Does that mean they go to the same school, are in the same 
grade, have the same teacher?  Probably not.  And could it be WiFi issues?  
Probably.  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a file getting 
uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been communicating with has 
said its been working flawlessly. is zoom related to skype in its back end?

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.

Netflix also isn't zoom.

So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what you say 
is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households' Netflix and 
Chill then QoS can address that.

 

On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize everything.  
It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, what’s the point?

 

I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably a control 
channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 8801.  Not sure if 
you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2 adults all Zooming, 
if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for the 
video.

Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple thinks 
iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).

 

On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i dont know 
if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto scales. I would 
actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it to ramp up resolutions, 
etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe find the absolute minimum 
requirements and QOS that as the min

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like 
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.

School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be a hot 
item.

-Adam



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

 

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AF@af.afmug.com  
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Ken Hohhof]

Crush those expectations.

 

https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2020/09/02

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

i wonder if setting a set QOS for zoom, like 1mbps, whatever is required for 
minimal acceptable performance, then prioritize that QOS.

Tiered QOS would be dreamy, like as load increases overall minimum QOS 
decreases for that specific target, is that a thing?

but then that sets resolution expectations and when it has to throttle down, 
the complaints call.

I do that with my kids, start them with low expectations so it appears im 
always overperforming. Started feeding them ever other day, so then when i let 
them out of the cage to eat every day it was like they were getting the kings 
treatment

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:50 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I haven't had any specific problems with Zoombut looking at a situation for 
helping a local school district.

I thought it might be useful to say that I *could* prioritize Zoom.  Whether or 
not I would really need to is less important than whether I can give them warm 
and fuzzy feelings about it.

 

On 9/2/2020 2:41 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a file getting 
uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been communicating with has 
said its been working flawlessly. is zoom related to skype in its back end?

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.

Netflix also isn't zoom.

So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what you say 
is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households' Netflix and 
Chill then QoS can address that.

 

On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize everything.  
It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, what’s the point?

 

I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably a control 
channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 8801.  Not sure if 
you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2 adults all Zooming, 
if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for the 
video.

Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple thinks 
iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).

 

On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i dont know 
if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto scales. I would 
actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it to ramp up resolutions, 
etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe find the absolute minimum 
requirements and QOS that as the min

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like 
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.

School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be a hot 
item.

-Adam



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Steve Jones]

then there is the "it doesnt work" kid whos the same kid that always is
sick. reality is he just doesnt want to go to class

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> In theory the upstream bandwidth could be a problem, because Zoom says
> they need a little over 1 Mbps both directions.
>
>
>
> What I’ve actually seen is adults working from home typically have a
> steady 1M symmetric during a video conference.  School kids on the other
> hand are all over the map.  The traffic isn’t constant, and the upstream
> seems a lot less.  I think it may depend on how they have it set up, like
> do you see the whole class in thumbnails.  And the upstream may only go to
> a big number when the teacher calls on that student?
>
>
>
> One thing’s for sure, you get a house with WiFi coverage issues and a
> whole bunch of Zoomers, and they’re going to be calling and bugging the
> crap out of us.  It’s similar to gamers who call saying things like it’s
> freezing or lagging or there’s audio but no video or one kid is fine but
> the other can’t get on.  And it’s an existential crisis that has to be
> fixed right now this nanosecond and you hear the kids yelling at the mom in
> the background.  Some problems are people on the lowest speed plan with
> insufficient upstream, but others I’m not sure what their problem is.  One
> is saying only one of their kids can Zoom but their neighbor on our service
> and the same speed plan has 4 Zooming no problem.  Does that mean they go
> to the same school, are in the same grade, have the same teacher?  Probably
> not.  And could it be WiFi issues?  Probably.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:41 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS
>
>
>
> we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a file
> getting uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been
> communicating with has said its been working flawlessly. is zoom related to
> skype in its back end?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.
>
> Netflix also isn't zoom.
>
> So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what you
> say is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households' Netflix
> and Chill then QoS can address that.
>
>
>
> On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize
> everything.  It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, what’s
> the point?
>
>
>
> I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably a
> control channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 8801.
> Not sure if you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2
> adults all Zooming, if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using
> 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS
>
>
>
> Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for the
> video.
>
> Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple
> thinks iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).
>
>
>
> On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i
> dont know if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto
> scales. I would actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it to
> ramp up resolutions, etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe find the
> absolute minimum requirements and QOS that as the min
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like
> a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.
>
> School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be a hot
> item.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Adam Moffett]

If client has video turned off then the upload is similar to a VoIP call.

Apparently the downlink can vary quite a bit depending on what the 
presenter is doing.  Like audio only vs screen share vs video.  On top 
of that the video can auto train. So yeah lots of variance.



On 9/2/2020 2:59 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


In theory the upstream bandwidth could be a problem, because Zoom says 
they need a little over 1 Mbps both directions.


What I’ve actually seen is adults working from home typically have a 
steady 1M symmetric during a video conference.  School kids on the 
other hand are all over the map.  The traffic isn’t constant, and the 
upstream seems a lot less.  I think it may depend on how they have it 
set up, like do you see the whole class in thumbnails.  And the 
upstream may only go to a big number when the teacher calls on that 
student?


One thing’s for sure, you get a house with WiFi coverage issues and a 
whole bunch of Zoomers, and they’re going to be calling and bugging 
the crap out of us.  It’s similar to gamers who call saying things 
like it’s freezing or lagging or there’s audio but no video or one kid 
is fine but the other can’t get on.  And it’s an existential crisis 
that has to be fixed right now this nanosecond and you hear the kids 
yelling at the mom in the background.  Some problems are people on the 
lowest speed plan with insufficient upstream, but others I’m not sure 
what their problem is.  One is saying only one of their kids can Zoom 
but their neighbor on our service and the same speed plan has 4 
Zooming no problem. Does that mean they go to the same school, are in 
the same grade, have the same teacher?  Probably not.  And could it be 
WiFi issues?  Probably.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:41 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a 
file getting uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been 
communicating with has said its been working flawlessly. is zoom 
related to skype in its back end?


On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new
normal.

Netflix also isn't zoom.

So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then
what you say is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other
households' Netflix and Chill then QoS can address that.

On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize
everything.  It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody
loses, what’s the point?

I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP
presumably a control channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on
something like port 8801.  Not sure if you have 3 or 4
students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2 adults all
Zooming, if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using
5060, 5061, 5062, etc.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio
and 40 for the video.

Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though
(like Apple thinks iPhone software updates need expedited
forwarding).

On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on
their own. i dont know if its a school setting, or a
default, but it seems it auto scales. I would actually be
concerned about prioritizing it causing it to ramp up
resolutions, etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe
find the absolute minimum requirements and QOS that as the min

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for
prioritizing it?  Like
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.

School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking
this might be a hot
item.

-Adam



-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Adam Moffett]

Yeah you're probably right.

I was given results from a survey done by the school district where 
there are people in the middle of a mid-sized city reporting that they 
have "no service available" or "insufficient speed".  I felt like some 
of those "insufficient speed" people really have a tech support 
issue.or maybe their kid is lying to them like you're saying.


The "no service available" I figured just can't afford it.  Or else they 
really want their kid to go to actual school.



*

To get OT and maybe Lenty: I hope CPS is going to cut some slack about 
unattended minors this year.  If you're telling parents the kid has to 
stay home, but mom and dad still have to work, and by the way daycare is 
closed too, then you're just going to have some kids home alone.  It 
didn't kill us in the 80's, so I think it'll be fine anyway, but people 
get a bug in their bonnet about that these days.




On 9/2/2020 3:02 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
then there is the "it doesnt work" kid whos the same kid that always 
is sick. reality is he just doesnt want to go to class


On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:00 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


In theory the upstream bandwidth could be a problem, because Zoom
says they need a little over 1 Mbps both directions.

What I’ve actually seen is adults working from home typically have
a steady 1M symmetric during a video conference.  School kids on
the other hand are all over the map.  The traffic isn’t constant,
and the upstream seems a lot less.  I think it may depend on how
they have it set up, like do you see the whole class in
thumbnails.  And the upstream may only go to a big number when the
teacher calls on that student?

One thing’s for sure, you get a house with WiFi coverage issues
and a whole bunch of Zoomers, and they’re going to be calling and
bugging the crap out of us.  It’s similar to gamers who call
saying things like it’s freezing or lagging or there’s audio but
no video or one kid is fine but the other can’t get on. And it’s
an existential crisis that has to be fixed right now this
nanosecond and you hear the kids yelling at the mom in the
background.  Some problems are people on the lowest speed plan
with insufficient upstream, but others I’m not sure what their
problem is.  One is saying only one of their kids can Zoom but
their neighbor on our service and the same speed plan has 4
Zooming no problem.  Does that mean they go to the same school,
are in the same grade, have the same teacher? Probably not.  And
could it be WiFi issues?  Probably.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:41 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a
file getting uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive
been communicating with has said its been working flawlessly. is
zoom related to skype in its back end?

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next
new normal.

Netflix also isn't zoom.

So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem
then what you say is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with
other households' Netflix and Chill then QoS can address that.

On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you
prioritize everything.  It’s like everyone is a winner,
but if nobody loses, what’s the point?

I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP
presumably a control channel and mostly UDP I think it’s
on something like port 8801.  Not sure if you have 3 or 4
students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2 adults all
Zooming, if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP
using 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the
audio and 40 for the video.

Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers
though (like Apple thinks iPhone software updates need
expedited forwarding).

On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient
on their own. i dont know if its a school setting, or
a default, but it seems it auto scales. I would
actually be concerned 

Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Ken Hohhof]

I just got off the phone with a parent who says their kids use Google Meet for 
classes.  And some people have mentioned Microsoft Teams, but that was either 
for work or maybe college, I don’t think I’ve heard anybody say they are using 
Teams for K-12 classes.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

If client has video turned off then the upload is similar to a VoIP call.

Apparently the downlink can vary quite a bit depending on what the presenter is 
doing.  Like audio only vs screen share vs video.  On top of that the video can 
auto train. So yeah lots of variance.  

 

On 9/2/2020 2:59 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

In theory the upstream bandwidth could be a problem, because Zoom says they 
need a little over 1 Mbps both directions.

 

What I’ve actually seen is adults working from home typically have a steady 1M 
symmetric during a video conference.  School kids on the other hand are all 
over the map.  The traffic isn’t constant, and the upstream seems a lot less.  
I think it may depend on how they have it set up, like do you see the whole 
class in thumbnails.  And the upstream may only go to a big number when the 
teacher calls on that student?

 

One thing’s for sure, you get a house with WiFi coverage issues and a whole 
bunch of Zoomers, and they’re going to be calling and bugging the crap out of 
us.  It’s similar to gamers who call saying things like it’s freezing or 
lagging or there’s audio but no video or one kid is fine but the other can’t 
get on.  And it’s an existential crisis that has to be fixed right now this 
nanosecond and you hear the kids yelling at the mom in the background.  Some 
problems are people on the lowest speed plan with insufficient upstream, but 
others I’m not sure what their problem is.  One is saying only one of their 
kids can Zoom but their neighbor on our service and the same speed plan has 4 
Zooming no problem.  Does that mean they go to the same school, are in the same 
grade, have the same teacher?  Probably not.  And could it be WiFi issues?  
Probably.  

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a file getting 
uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been communicating with has 
said its been working flawlessly. is zoom related to skype in its back end?

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.

Netflix also isn't zoom.

So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what you say 
is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households' Netflix and 
Chill then QoS can address that.

 

On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize everything.  
It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, what’s the point?

 

I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably a control 
channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 8801.  Not sure if 
you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2 adults all Zooming, 
if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for the 
video.

Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple thinks 
iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).

 

On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i dont know 
if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto scales. I would 
actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it to ramp up resolutions, 
etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe find the absolute minimum 
requirements and QOS that as the min

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like 
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.

School is restarting soon (online) and I'm thinking this might be a hot 
item.

-Adam



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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Caleb Knauer]

I’ve got 3/4/6ft in front of me right now and they’re all vinyl sticker
logo. They may have changed it earlier this year about the same time they
stopped putting the 820 mounting brackets on. Now it’s separate box with
some spacers etc. First round didn’t have any instructions and they weren’t
on the website either. Fun times.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Now that I think of it, we’ve put up several 2 ft 11 GHz Radiowaves dishes
> this year and I don’t think any of them had logos on the radomes.  Neither
> pre-applied nor in the box.
>
>
>
> We also put up some 1 ft 18 GHz Andrew/Commscope dishes and those also had
> no logo.  No Andrew lightning bolt either.  But those are very small dishes.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:27 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> Peel off and leave it or put your own on.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Caleb Knauer  wrote:
>
> 
>
> They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
>
> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
>
> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).
>
>
>
> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it
> upside
>
> down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you
>
> really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
>
> after I realized it was installed upside down
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where
>
> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>
>
>
> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it
> wasn't
>
> mine.
>
> --
>
> AF mailing list
>
> AF@af.afmug.com
>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> AF mailing list
>
> AF@af.afmug.com
>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> AF mailing list
>
> AF@af.afmug.com
>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Darren Shea]

My daughter goes to an Idea College Prep charter school – she’s in 7th grade, 
and her school uses Microsoft Teams. My sons attend a local public school which 
won’t start classes until after Labor Day, and last year, they used a mess of 
tech: Zoom video conferences, Seesaw for parent/teacher feedback, and random 
files of any format for whatever else was needed.

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 2:51 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

I just got off the phone with a parent who says their kids use Google Meet for 
classes.  And some people have mentioned Microsoft Teams, but that was either 
for work or maybe college, I don’t think I’ve heard anybody say they are using 
Teams for K-12 classes.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

If client has video turned off then the upload is similar to a VoIP call.

Apparently the downlink can vary quite a bit depending on what the presenter is 
doing.  Like audio only vs screen share vs video.  On top of that the video can 
auto train. So yeah lots of variance.  

 

On 9/2/2020 2:59 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

In theory the upstream bandwidth could be a problem, because Zoom says they 
need a little over 1 Mbps both directions.

 

What I’ve actually seen is adults working from home typically have a steady 1M 
symmetric during a video conference.  School kids on the other hand are all 
over the map.  The traffic isn’t constant, and the upstream seems a lot less.  
I think it may depend on how they have it set up, like do you see the whole 
class in thumbnails.  And the upstream may only go to a big number when the 
teacher calls on that student?

 

One thing’s for sure, you get a house with WiFi coverage issues and a whole 
bunch of Zoomers, and they’re going to be calling and bugging the crap out of 
us.  It’s similar to gamers who call saying things like it’s freezing or 
lagging or there’s audio but no video or one kid is fine but the other can’t 
get on.  And it’s an existential crisis that has to be fixed right now this 
nanosecond and you hear the kids yelling at the mom in the background.  Some 
problems are people on the lowest speed plan with insufficient upstream, but 
others I’m not sure what their problem is.  One is saying only one of their 
kids can Zoom but their neighbor on our service and the same speed plan has 4 
Zooming no problem.  Does that mean they go to the same school, are in the same 
grade, have the same teacher?  Probably not.  And could it be WiFi issues?  
Probably.  

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a file getting 
uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been communicating with has 
said its been working flawlessly. is zoom related to skype in its back end?

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.

Netflix also isn't zoom.

So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what you say 
is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households' Netflix and 
Chill then QoS can address that.

 

On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize everything.  
It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, what’s the point?

 

I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably a control 
channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 8801.  Not sure if 
you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2 adults all Zooming, 
if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for the 
video.

Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple thinks 
iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).

 

On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i dont know 
if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto scales. I would 
actually be concerned about prioritizing it causing it to ramp up resolutions, 
etc and cause more net demand. unless maybe find the absolute minimum 
requirements and QOS that as the min

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 12:04 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Is the a simple way to classify Zoom traffic for prioritizing it?  Like 
a layer7 match or matching a certain IP block.

School is restarting soon (onlin

Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Ken Hohhof]

Like this one we put up I think 2 years ago?





 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Caleb Knauer
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

I’ve got 3/4/6ft in front of me right now and they’re all vinyl sticker logo. 
They may have changed it earlier this year about the same time they stopped 
putting the 820 mounting brackets on. Now it’s separate box with some spacers 
etc. First round didn’t have any instructions and they weren’t on the website 
either. Fun times. 

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Now that I think of it, we’ve put up several 2 ft 11 GHz Radiowaves dishes this 
year and I don’t think any of them had logos on the radomes.  Neither 
pre-applied nor in the box.

 

We also put up some 1 ft 18 GHz Andrew/Commscope dishes and those also had no 
logo.  No Andrew lightning bolt either.  But those are very small dishes.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

Peel off and leave it or put your own on.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Caleb Knauer mailto:cknauer.li...@gmail.com> > wrote:



They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for

Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly

assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).



And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it upside

down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you

really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?



-Original Message-

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of David Coudron

Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??



And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video

after I realized it was installed upside down  



Regards,



David Coudron



-Original Message-

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes

Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >

Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??



I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where

someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.



That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't

mine.

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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Carl Peterson]

Reverse polarity.  Avoids all the interference from standard polarity.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:31 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot
> where someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>
> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it
> wasn't mine.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Steve Jones]

Illinois has finally committed to defining the 13 criteria for kids home
alone. they have always been so vague that there is no way to interpret
them. specifically so i would guess to be able to have a different set of
rules for a different set of people.

one of them is worded something like leaving a child under 13 at home
without regard to their health or welfare

seriously, wtf does that mean

my parent live across the street, technically theyre unsupervised, yet if i
live on a farm and my parents do too, they can be in a structure further
away then their house is from mine in town, yet that is ok

there is a lot of unintended good coming of the rona
the definition of the rules is one

remote workforce vpn/remote access efficiency. remember before this, any
time there was an issue with a remote worker connecting, it was always the
isp fault, always too slow, always too much "jitter" always too much "hops"
lol. but notice now that its not the employees job on the line and its the
it administrators job on the line that the remote office demands are
getting made more efficient, suddenly those unusable ISP connections are
just fine

same with video streaming, we are seeing less issue now than before even
with more demand, because the product vendors cant simply blame the ISPs

tables are turned and onus is where it should have been from the get go.
any chance of google and their "killer apps" making a comeback are gone,
thank god

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:38 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Yeah you're probably right.
>
> I was given results from a survey done by the school district where there
> are people in the middle of a mid-sized city reporting that they have "no
> service available" or "insufficient speed".  I felt like some of those
> "insufficient speed" people really have a tech support issue.or maybe
> their kid is lying to them like you're saying.
>
> The "no service available" I figured just can't afford it.  Or else they
> really want their kid to go to actual school.
>
>
> *
>
> To get OT and maybe Lenty: I hope CPS is going to cut some slack about
> unattended minors this year.  If you're telling parents the kid has to stay
> home, but mom and dad still have to work, and by the way daycare is closed
> too, then you're just going to have some kids home alone.  It didn't kill
> us in the 80's, so I think it'll be fine anyway, but people get a bug in
> their bonnet about that these days.
>
>
>
> On 9/2/2020 3:02 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> then there is the "it doesnt work" kid whos the same kid that always is
> sick. reality is he just doesnt want to go to class
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> In theory the upstream bandwidth could be a problem, because Zoom says
>> they need a little over 1 Mbps both directions.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I’ve actually seen is adults working from home typically have a
>> steady 1M symmetric during a video conference.  School kids on the other
>> hand are all over the map.  The traffic isn’t constant, and the upstream
>> seems a lot less.  I think it may depend on how they have it set up, like
>> do you see the whole class in thumbnails.  And the upstream may only go to
>> a big number when the teacher calls on that student?
>>
>>
>>
>> One thing’s for sure, you get a house with WiFi coverage issues and a
>> whole bunch of Zoomers, and they’re going to be calling and bugging the
>> crap out of us.  It’s similar to gamers who call saying things like it’s
>> freezing or lagging or there’s audio but no video or one kid is fine but
>> the other can’t get on.  And it’s an existential crisis that has to be
>> fixed right now this nanosecond and you hear the kids yelling at the mom in
>> the background.  Some problems are people on the lowest speed plan with
>> insufficient upstream, but others I’m not sure what their problem is.  One
>> is saying only one of their kids can Zoom but their neighbor on our service
>> and the same speed plan has 4 Zooming no problem.  Does that mean they go
>> to the same school, are in the same grade, have the same teacher?  Probably
>> not.  And could it be WiFi issues?  Probably.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:41 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS
>>
>>
>>
>> we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a file
>> getting uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been
>> communicating with has said its been working flawlessly. is zoom related to
>> skype in its back end?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.
>>
>> Netflix also isn't zoom.
>>
>> So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what
>> you say is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households'
>> Netflix and Chill then QoS can address that.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof 

Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Chuck McCown]

You just triggered me.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> Like this one we put up I think 2 years ago?
> 
> 
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Caleb Knauer
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:55 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>  
> I’ve got 3/4/6ft in front of me right now and they’re all vinyl sticker logo. 
> They may have changed it earlier this year about the same time they stopped 
> putting the 820 mounting brackets on. Now it’s separate box with some spacers 
> etc. First round didn’t have any instructions and they weren’t on the website 
> either. Fun times. 
>  
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> Now that I think of it, we’ve put up several 2 ft 11 GHz Radiowaves dishes 
> this year and I don’t think any of them had logos on the radomes.  Neither 
> pre-applied nor in the box.
>  
> We also put up some 1 ft 18 GHz Andrew/Commscope dishes and those also had no 
> logo.  No Andrew lightning bolt either.  But those are very small dishes.
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:27 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>  
> Peel off and leave it or put your own on.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
>  
> 
> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Caleb Knauer  wrote:
> 
> 
> They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)
>  
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
> 
> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
> 
> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).
> 
> 
> 
> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it upside
> 
> down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you
> 
> really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
> 
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
> 
> 
> 
> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
> 
> after I realized it was installed upside down  
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> David Coudron
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
> 
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
> 
> 
> 
> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where
> 
> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
> 
> 
> 
> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't
> 
> mine.
> 
> -- 
> 
> AF mailing list
> 
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> AF mailing list
> 
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> 
> AF mailing list
> 
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Caleb Knauer]

Ok logo looks the same.  Radome assembly is different now though. I thought
about taking it apart and flipping but the oopsy risk was high.  Way easier
and safer to pull the sticker off and swap the drain plugs.

We standardized on Radiowaves because they’re already assembled and
stouter. Also stiff arm options are way more flexible. Costs more but the
time savings pay off esp when doing the 4ft+ sizes with what we do.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 4:25 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Like this one we put up I think 2 years ago?
>
> [image: A picture containing sitting, view, plane,
> largeDescription automatically generated]
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Caleb Knauer
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> I’ve got 3/4/6ft in front of me right now and they’re all vinyl sticker
> logo. They may have changed it earlier this year about the same time they
> stopped putting the 820 mounting brackets on. Now it’s separate box with
> some spacers etc. First round didn’t have any instructions and they weren’t
> on the website either. Fun times.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Now that I think of it, we’ve put up several 2 ft 11 GHz Radiowaves dishes
> this year and I don’t think any of them had logos on the radomes.  Neither
> pre-applied nor in the box.
>
>
>
> We also put up some 1 ft 18 GHz Andrew/Commscope dishes and those also had
> no logo.  No Andrew lightning bolt either.  But those are very small dishes.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:27 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> Peel off and leave it or put your own on.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Caleb Knauer  wrote:
>
> 
>
> They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for
>
> Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly
>
> assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).
>
>
>
> And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it
> upside
>
> down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you
>
> really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video
>
> after I realized it was installed upside down
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>
>
> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where
>
> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>
>
>
> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it
> wasn't
>
> mine.
>
> --
>
> AF mailing list
>
> AF@af.afmug.com
>
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>
>
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>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Caleb Knauer]

Extreme XPIC. XXPIC.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 4:39 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Reverse polarity.  Avoids all the interference from standard polarity.
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:31 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot
>>
>>
>> where someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it
>>
>>
>> wasn't mine.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> AF mailing list
>>
>>
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
> AF@af.afmug.com
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Ken Hohhof]

How about upside down AND peeling.

 



 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 4:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

You just triggered me.

Sent from my iPhone





On Sep 2, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:



Like this one we put up I think 2 years ago?






 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Caleb Knauer
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

I’ve got 3/4/6ft in front of me right now and they’re all vinyl sticker logo. 
They may have changed it earlier this year about the same time they stopped 
putting the 820 mounting brackets on. Now it’s separate box with some spacers 
etc. First round didn’t have any instructions and they weren’t on the website 
either. Fun times. 

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Now that I think of it, we’ve put up several 2 ft 11 GHz Radiowaves dishes this 
year and I don’t think any of them had logos on the radomes.  Neither 
pre-applied nor in the box.

 

We also put up some 1 ft 18 GHz Andrew/Commscope dishes and those also had no 
logo.  No Andrew lightning bolt either.  But those are very small dishes.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

Peel off and leave it or put your own on.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Caleb Knauer mailto:cknauer.li...@gmail.com> > wrote:



They come with the logo as stickers now. Pulls off real easy :)

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:19 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I have some like that.  Part of the reason to pay the extra money for

Radiowaves dishes is they aren't like Ikea furniture, they come mostly

assembled (and any remaining assembly is easy).



And if you want it to mount on the left side of the pole, you flip it upside

down and move the drain plugs, but then the logo is upside down.  Would you

really remove and reattach the radome just to make the logo rightside up?



-Original Message-

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of David Coudron

Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:34 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??



And, I think I would have used a different picture in my promotional video

after I realized it was installed upside down  



Regards,



David Coudron



-Original Message-

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes

Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:30 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >

Subject: [AFMUG] Who installed this??



I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where

someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.



That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't

mine.

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Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

[Brian Webster]

Let’s not forget that the kids or others in the home might have been doing 
large downloads at the same time trying to have these calls. Some of these game 
updates are massive and if they are running at the same time performance will 
surely suffer. Since the kids are home all day it is much more likely that this 
would happen now.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 3:38 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

Yeah you're probably right.

I was given results from a survey done by the school district where there are 
people in the middle of a mid-sized city reporting that they have "no service 
available" or "insufficient speed".  I felt like some of those "insufficient 
speed" people really have a tech support issue.or maybe their kid is lying 
to them like you're saying.

The "no service available" I figured just can't afford it.  Or else they really 
want their kid to go to actual school.

 

*

To get OT and maybe Lenty: I hope CPS is going to cut some slack about 
unattended minors this year.  If you're telling parents the kid has to stay 
home, but mom and dad still have to work, and by the way daycare is closed too, 
then you're just going to have some kids home alone.  It didn't kill us in the 
80's, so I think it'll be fine anyway, but people get a bug in their bonnet 
about that these days.

 

 

On 9/2/2020 3:02 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

then there is the "it doesnt work" kid whos the same kid that always is sick. 
reality is he just doesnt want to go to class

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

In theory the upstream bandwidth could be a problem, because Zoom says they 
need a little over 1 Mbps both directions.

 

What I’ve actually seen is adults working from home typically have a steady 1M 
symmetric during a video conference.  School kids on the other hand are all 
over the map.  The traffic isn’t constant, and the upstream seems a lot less.  
I think it may depend on how they have it set up, like do you see the whole 
class in thumbnails.  And the upstream may only go to a big number when the 
teacher calls on that student?

 

One thing’s for sure, you get a house with WiFi coverage issues and a whole 
bunch of Zoomers, and they’re going to be calling and bugging the crap out of 
us.  It’s similar to gamers who call saying things like it’s freezing or 
lagging or there’s audio but no video or one kid is fine but the other can’t 
get on.  And it’s an existential crisis that has to be fixed right now this 
nanosecond and you hear the kids yelling at the mom in the background.  Some 
problems are people on the lowest speed plan with insufficient upstream, but 
others I’m not sure what their problem is.  One is saying only one of their 
kids can Zoom but their neighbor on our service and the same speed plan has 4 
Zooming no problem.  Does that mean they go to the same school, are in the same 
grade, have the same teacher?  Probably not.  And could it be WiFi issues?  
Probably.  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

we have one house with 5 remote learners, other than when theres a file getting 
uploaded, even on a small connection the mother ive been communicating with has 
said its been working flawlessly. is zoom related to skype in its back end?

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 1:33 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Porn isn't zoom.at least not yet.  Maybe that's the next new normal.

Netflix also isn't zoom.

So if 5 kids using Zoom on a 3mbps connection is the problem then what you say 
is true.  If it's 1 or 2 kids competing with other households' Netflix and 
Chill then QoS can address that.

 

On 9/2/2020 2:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If everything is Zoom, and you prioritize Zoom, you prioritize everything.  
It’s like everyone is a winner, but if nobody loses, what’s the point?

 

I have observed that Zoom seems to use a little bit of TCP presumably a control 
channel and mostly UDP I think it’s on something like port 8801.  Not sure if 
you have 3 or 4 students in the same house and maybe 1 or 2 adults all Zooming, 
if additional ports get used, kind of like VoIP using 5060, 5061, 5062, etc.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Zoom QoS

 

Apparently they already set DSCP values to 56 for the audio and 40 for the 
video.

Trusting DSCP from the Internet carries other dangers though (like Apple thinks 
iPhone software updates need expedited forwarding).

 

On 9/2/2020 1:18 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

zoom and google classroom are surprisingly resilient on their own. i dont know 
if its a school setting, or a default, but it seems it auto scales. I would 
actually be concerned about prioriti

Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Daniel White]

This was shot around where I live... that tower is an old LP Broadband
tower.    I know it well.  The call center building they are showing is
in Loveland.

Tower is at 40.34714 -105.0052113

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766

> Matt Hoppes 
> September 2, 2020 at 05:30
> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot
> where someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down.
>
> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it
> wasn't mine.
>
>

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Daniel White]

Look at RFS.  Over time while I was at SAF they turned into my favorite
antenna vendor.

When I was at SAF I sometimes worked directly with the antenna vendors
as many of the ones SAF works with are headquartered in the US. 
Commscope, RFS, and Radiowaves all had different ideas about costs for
shipping vs. costs for assembling onsite.  If you save $50 on shipping
and can pay a tower climber an hour to assemble it... it is worth it
potentially in the big picture.

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766

> Caleb Knauer 
> September 2, 2020 at 16:51
> Ok logo looks the same.  Radome assembly is different now though. I
> thought about taking it apart and flipping but the oopsy risk was
> high.  Way easier and safer to pull the sticker off and swap the drain
> plugs. 
>
> We standardized on Radiowaves because they’re already assembled and
> stouter. Also stiff arm options are way more flexible. Costs more but
> the time savings pay off esp when doing the 4ft+ sizes with what we do. 
>
>
>
> Ken Hohhof 
> September 2, 2020 at 14:24
>
> Like this one we put up I think 2 years ago?
>
> A picture containing sitting, view, plane, large Description
> automatically generated
>
>  
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Caleb Knauer
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>  
>
> I’ve got 3/4/6ft in front of me right now and they’re all vinyl
> sticker logo. They may have changed it earlier this year about the
> same time they stopped putting the 820 mounting brackets on. Now it’s
> separate box with some spacers etc. First round didn’t have any
> instructions and they weren’t on the website either. Fun times. 
>
>  
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
>
>
>
> Caleb Knauer 
> September 2, 2020 at 13:55
> I’ve got 3/4/6ft in front of me right now and they’re all vinyl
> sticker logo. They may have changed it earlier this year about the
> same time they stopped putting the 820 mounting brackets on. Now it’s
> separate box with some spacers etc. First round didn’t have any
> instructions and they weren’t on the website either. Fun times. 
>
>
>
> Ken Hohhof 
> September 2, 2020 at 12:46
>
> Now that I think of it, we’ve put up several 2 ft 11 GHz Radiowaves
> dishes this year and I don’t think any of them had logos on the
> radomes.  Neither pre-applied nor in the box.
>
>  
>
> We also put up some 1 ft 18 GHz Andrew/Commscope dishes and those also
> had no logo.  No Andrew lightning bolt either.  But those are very
> small dishes.
>
>  
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:27 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??
>
>  
>
> Peel off and leave it or put your own on.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck McCown 
> September 2, 2020 at 12:26
> Peel off and leave it or put your own on.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Matt Hoppes]

So perhaps LP Broadband did not care enough to change the logo around then. 

> On Sep 2, 2020, at 8:18 PM, Daniel White  wrote:
> 
> 
> This was shot around where I live... that tower is an old LP Broadband tower. 
>I know it well.  The call center building they are showing is in Loveland.
> 
> Tower is at 40.34714 -105.0052113
> 
>   
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>> Matt Hoppes September 2, 2020 at 05:30
>> I was just watching one of Rise Broadband's videos and there's a shot where 
>> someone installed a RadioWaves radome upside down. 
>> 
>> That would drive me crazy everytime I saw it on the tower, even if it wasn't 
>> mine. 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

[Ken Hohhof]

I don’t want to assemble antennas onsite, and if possible I don’t want a tower 
guy doing it because they do everything with channelocks and a pocket knife.  
So most of the time I end up doing it.  And I just hate assembling Commscope 
dishes.  Haven’t used RFS so maybe they are wonderful.

 

A tower site with wind and weather and gravel and dirt is not the place to be 
assembling things.  If you drop a nut or washer, good luck finding it.  Plus 
you maybe have a couple ground crew guys standing around while the tower guy 
assembles a dish, meanwhile you’re wasting good climbing weather.

 

I wish all the antenna manufacturers would put serrations in their clamps to 
resist rotating under wind load.  I wish Commscope 1 ft dishes would clamp onto 
a 1-5/8 dia pipe, or even the leg of a 25G or 45G tower, you shouldn’t need a 
2-3/8 dia pipe for such a little dish.  I wish dishes smaller than 4 ft would 
still have an attachment point for a support strut.  I wish all dishes had lift 
hooks.  I wish Commscope wouldn’t use stainless hardware that is prone to 
seizing, they give you a tube of the silver grease which will get all over 
everything if you use it.  Radiowaves uses galvanized or stainless+brass or 
bronze nuts.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 7:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

Look at RFS.  Over time while I was at SAF they turned into my favorite antenna 
vendor.

When I was at SAF I sometimes worked directly with the antenna vendors as many 
of the ones SAF works with are headquartered in the US.  Commscope, RFS, and 
Radiowaves all had different ideas about costs for shipping vs. costs for 
assembling onsite.  If you save $50 on shipping and can pay a tower climber an 
hour to assemble it... it is worth it potentially in the big picture.

 


  

 


Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations


phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766



Caleb Knauer  

September 2, 2020 at 16:51

Ok logo looks the same.  Radome assembly is different now though. I thought 
about taking it apart and flipping but the oopsy risk was high.  Way easier and 
safer to pull the sticker off and swap the drain plugs. 

 

We standardized on Radiowaves because they’re already assembled and stouter. 
Also stiff arm options are way more flexible. Costs more but the time savings 
pay off esp when doing the 4ft+ sizes with what we do. 

 





Ken Hohhof  

September 2, 2020 at 14:24

Like this one we put up I think 2 years ago?






 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Caleb Knauer
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

I’ve got 3/4/6ft in front of me right now and they’re all vinyl sticker logo. 
They may have changed it earlier this year about the same time they stopped 
putting the 820 mounting brackets on. Now it’s separate box with some spacers 
etc. First round didn’t have any instructions and they weren’t on the website 
either. Fun times. 

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:





Caleb Knauer  

September 2, 2020 at 13:55

I’ve got 3/4/6ft in front of me right now and they’re all vinyl sticker logo. 
They may have changed it earlier this year about the same time they stopped 
putting the 820 mounting brackets on. Now it’s separate box with some spacers 
etc. First round didn’t have any instructions and they weren’t on the website 
either. Fun times. 

 





Ken Hohhof  

September 2, 2020 at 12:46

Now that I think of it, we’ve put up several 2 ft 11 GHz Radiowaves dishes this 
year and I don’t think any of them had logos on the radomes.  Neither 
pre-applied nor in the box.

 

We also put up some 1 ft 18 GHz Andrew/Commscope dishes and those also had no 
logo.  No Andrew lightning bolt either.  But those are very small dishes.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who installed this??

 

Peel off and leave it or put your own on.

Sent from my iPhone










Chuck McCown  

September 2, 2020 at 12:26

Peel off and leave it or put your own on.

Sent from my iPhone

 





 

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