[AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Josh Baird]

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge
suppression at the top and bottom?

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626

Anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks,

Josh
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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Joe Novak]

I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we are
going to utilize the one they recommended for top of tower:
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110

I may consider the din rail one for in the box.


Joe


On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

> For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge
> suppression at the top and bottom?
>
> I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:
>
> https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626
>
> Anything else I should be looking at?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

[Harold Bledsoe]

Not an answer to your question but FWIW I got some 12V/100AH batteries from 
Meritsun to use in a golf cart and those have worked very well so far.  These 
are wired in series to do 48V that the golf cart needs.

From: AF  on behalf of TJ Trout 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

If anyone is using the lifepo4 rack mount batteries could you comment on which 
capacity you went with?

I'm trying to figure out which capacity is the best form factor in terms of 
weight size etc.

Strange that the 200ah unit is marginally larger but twice the weight. The 
100ah unit just be partially empty inside.

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 8:40 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Ferric Chloride kills the coronavirus.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

My bare pcb provider got the go ahead to restart production Monday.
Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:54 PM, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> 
wrote:
Shit, the other thing is when will China be a viable supplier again? Anyone 
seeing shipments from China? We use 3 chinese suppliers and they are MIA, 
wondering when things will become normal again?

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:57 PM Peter Kranz 
mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com>> wrote:
Correct.. 
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Lifepo4-Batterie-Lithium-48V-Lifepo4-Lipo_62343352866.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.9.61a95ffebuB5z3

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

From: TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Cc: Peter Kranz mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

Peter, so just over 1k$ for 100ah@48vdc?

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:08 PM Peter Kranz via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
Second calc is wrong:

The equivalent LiFePO4 new unit:

1x MeritSun LFP100-48 Units = $1100 (138 lbs)
@100% DOD = 4800Wh of storage in a package 16”deep and 8.7” high or $.22/Wh

So its actually half the price of my Deka solution per Wh.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 2:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Cc: Peter Kranz mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

Chuck, something you may want to consider in your calculations is that I am 
comfortable taking LiFePO4 batteries to 100% DOD, whereas I never go below 50% 
DOD for my AGM backup systems. I guess one could make a case that I’m not 
cycling my AGM systems very much, so I shouldn’t care about the huge cycle life 
penalties of 100% DOD in which case your spreadsheet is still valid.

But assuming we go with the 50% DOD argument, I can fit 4x170Ah AGMs in the 
bottom of my racks:

4x Deka 170Ah 12AVR1700-ET @ $495 = $1980 (120 lbs x 4 = 480 lbs)
@50% DOD = 4080Wh of storage in a package 22” deep and 12.6” high or $.48/Wh

The equivalent LiFePO4 new unit:

1x MeritSun LFP100-48 Units = $2200 (138 lbs)
@100% DOD = 4800Wh of storage in a package 16”deep and 8.7” high or $.45/Wh

So, my conclusion so far is if you are buying relatively expensive telecom 
rated AGM batteries and only going to 50% DOD with them, you may be breaking 
even with LiFEPO4 based systems.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com

Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[chuck]

https://www.mccowntech.com/product/outdoor-tower-wall-mount-combination-4-dc-and-gige-4-circuit-ethernet-surge-protector/


From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 8:04 AM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge 
suppression at the top and bottom? 

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626


Anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks,

Josh



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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Adam Moffett]

In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices 
using the $40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but 
after several years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That 
device was actually chosen due to a physical space restriction and not 
because it was believed to be better.


I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation 
applied as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a cabinet 
door, and there was a limit on thickness of the housing).


Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though. You won't 
get fired for buying the Transtector.




On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:
I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we are 
going to utilize the one they recommended for top of tower: 
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110


I may consider the din rail one for in the box.


Joe


On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird > wrote:


For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for
surge suppression at the top and bottom?

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626

Anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks,

Josh
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AF mailing list

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Adam Moffett]

.but the lightning probably doesn't care.

On 6/15/2020 10:58 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

You won't get fired for buying the Transtector


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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[chuck]

Is transtector thinner than this?

https://www.mccowntech.com/product/dc-surge-suppressor/

If you get fired for using one of my devices I will write you a letter of 
recommendation...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 8:58 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices using the 
$40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but after several 
years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That device was actually 
chosen due to a physical space restriction and not because it was believed to 
be better.  


I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation applied 
as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a cabinet door, and there 
was a limit on thickness of the housing).


Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You won't get 
fired for buying the Transtector.





On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

  I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we are going 
to utilize the one they recommended for top of tower:   
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110 

  I may consider the din rail one for in the box.


  Joe


  On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge 
suppression at the top and bottom? 

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626


Anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks,

Josh
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


   



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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Ken Hohhof]

For 48VDC I would actually prefer to see MOVs rather than (or in addition to) 
silicon avalanche diodes.  You’d never put an MOV across an Ethernet data line, 
but this is power, and MOVs can take a punch.

 

Purewave used to recommend a device I think the model number was PP1, I don’t 
know who made it, and it doesn’t appear to be sold anymore.  But it had MOVs 
and maybe some other stuff.  Also had a light you could see from the ground 
which was surprisingly useful.  I don’t think it had an internal fuse.  I’d 
probably put that at the bottom, and maybe not a second surge protector.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

 

In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices using the 
$40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but after several 
years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That device was actually 
chosen due to a physical space restriction and not because it was believed to 
be better.  

I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation applied 
as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a cabinet door, and there 
was a limit on thickness of the housing).

Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You won't get 
fired for buying the Transtector.

 

 

On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we are going to 
utilize the one they recommended for top of tower:   
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110 

 

I may consider the din rail one for in the box.

 

 

Joe

 

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge 
suppression at the top and bottom? 

 

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

 

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626

 

Anything else I should be looking at?


Thanks,

 

Josh

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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Adam Moffett]

No, but the Cambium one was like 1/2" thinner.  That was the difference 
between the door closing or not.


Sorry, I tried.


On 6/15/2020 11:10 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Is transtector thinner than this?
https://www.mccowntech.com/product/dc-surge-suppressor/
If you get fired for using one of my devices I will write you a letter 
of recommendation...

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 8:58 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices 
using the $40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but 
after several years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That 
device was actually chosen due to a physical space restriction and not 
because it was believed to be better.


I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation 
applied as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a 
cabinet door, and there was a limit on thickness of the housing).


Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You 
won't get fired for buying the Transtector.


On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:
I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we 
are going to utilize the one they recommended for top of tower: 
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110

I may consider the din rail one for in the box.
Joe
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for
surge suppression at the top and bottom?
I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:
https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626
Anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks,
Josh
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AF mailing list

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Adam Moffett]

SS with a PP in the part number and a green LED sounds very familiar.  
Was it "green when power on and load connected" and "red when power on 
but load open"?



On 6/15/2020 11:12 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


For 48VDC I would actually prefer to see MOVs rather than (or in 
addition to) silicon avalanche diodes.  You’d never put an MOV across 
an Ethernet data line, but this is power, and MOVs can take a punch.


Purewave used to recommend a device I think the model number was PP1, 
I don’t know who made it, and it doesn’t appear to be sold anymore.  
But it had MOVs and maybe some other stuff.  Also had a light you 
could see from the ground which was surprisingly useful.  I don’t 
think it had an internal fuse.  I’d probably put that at the bottom, 
and maybe not a second surge protector.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices 
using the $40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but 
after several years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That 
device was actually chosen due to a physical space restriction and not 
because it was believed to be better.


I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation 
applied as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a 
cabinet door, and there was a limit on thickness of the housing).


Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You 
won't get fired for buying the Transtector.


On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we
are going to utilize the one they recommended for top of tower:
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110

I may consider the din rail one for in the box.

Joe

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using
for surge suppression at the top and bottom?

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626

Anything else I should be looking at?


Thanks,

Josh

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AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[chuck]

MOVs are slow.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:12 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

For 48VDC I would actually prefer to see MOVs rather than (or in addition to) 
silicon avalanche diodes.  You’d never put an MOV across an Ethernet data line, 
but this is power, and MOVs can take a punch.

 

Purewave used to recommend a device I think the model number was PP1, I don’t 
know who made it, and it doesn’t appear to be sold anymore.  But it had MOVs 
and maybe some other stuff.  Also had a light you could see from the ground 
which was surprisingly useful.  I don’t think it had an internal fuse.  I’d 
probably put that at the bottom, and maybe not a second surge protector.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

 

In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices using the 
$40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but after several 
years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That device was actually 
chosen due to a physical space restriction and not because it was believed to 
be better.  

I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation applied 
as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a cabinet door, and there 
was a limit on thickness of the housing).

Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You won't get 
fired for buying the Transtector.

 

 

On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

  I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we are going 
to utilize the one they recommended for top of tower:   
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110 

   

  I may consider the din rail one for in the box.

   

   

  Joe

   

   

  On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge 
suppression at the top and bottom? 

 

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

 

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626

 

Anything else I should be looking at?


Thanks,

 

Josh

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AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Ken Hohhof]

Not that smart.  I think it was red when it had power and off when it didn’t.  
Maybe it was green, I forget.

 

BTW, I have seen some Raycap outdoor units up on towers for fiber+DC cellular 
installations.  Looks like they use some humongous MOVs plus GDTs.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

 

SS with a PP in the part number and a green LED sounds very familiar.  Was it 
"green when power on and load connected" and "red when power on but load open"? 

 

On 6/15/2020 11:12 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

For 48VDC I would actually prefer to see MOVs rather than (or in addition to) 
silicon avalanche diodes.  You’d never put an MOV across an Ethernet data line, 
but this is power, and MOVs can take a punch.

 

Purewave used to recommend a device I think the model number was PP1, I don’t 
know who made it, and it doesn’t appear to be sold anymore.  But it had MOVs 
and maybe some other stuff.  Also had a light you could see from the ground 
which was surprisingly useful.  I don’t think it had an internal fuse.  I’d 
probably put that at the bottom, and maybe not a second surge protector.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

 

In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices using the 
$40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but after several 
years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That device was actually 
chosen due to a physical space restriction and not because it was believed to 
be better.  

I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation applied 
as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a cabinet door, and there 
was a limit on thickness of the housing).

Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You won't get 
fired for buying the Transtector.

 

 

On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we are going to 
utilize the one they recommended for top of tower:   
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110 

 

I may consider the din rail one for in the box.

 

 

Joe

 

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge 
suppression at the top and bottom? 

 

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

 

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626

 

Anything else I should be looking at?


Thanks,

 

Josh

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[AFMUG] R2AC‑Prism as WiFi AP?

[Adam Moffett]

In the older AirMax stuff you could turn off AirMax and just use them as 
a WiFi AP.  Can you do that with the Prism AC as well?


I'd like to put a big sector antenna on a 2.4ghz WiFi AP, but the 
current UniFi line doesn't seem to have that option.




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Re: [AFMUG] R2AC‑Prism as WiFi AP?

[Adam Moffett]

I guess this is a moot point.  I didn't realize the UniFi "Mesh" units 
were for outdoor.perhaps I glossed over them because I have an 
aversion to the word "mesh".



On 6/15/2020 11:59 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
In the older AirMax stuff you could turn off AirMax and just use them 
as a WiFi AP.  Can you do that with the Prism AC as well?


I'd like to put a big sector antenna on a 2.4ghz WiFi AP, but the 
current UniFi line doesn't seem to have that option.





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Re: [AFMUG] R2AC‑Prism as WiFi AP?

[Mathew Howard]

At any rate, no, you can't turn Airmax off on the AC stuff.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:10 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I guess this is a moot point.  I didn't realize the UniFi "Mesh" units
> were for outdoor.perhaps I glossed over them because I have an
> aversion to the word "mesh".
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 11:59 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> > In the older AirMax stuff you could turn off AirMax and just use them
> > as a WiFi AP.  Can you do that with the Prism AC as well?
> >
> > I'd like to put a big sector antenna on a 2.4ghz WiFi AP, but the
> > current UniFi line doesn't seem to have that option.
> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: How to skip ads on Youtube

[Steve Jones]

many of the ad driven free streaming sites, if you just click to the end of
the video, youll watch a single ad then go back to the beginning and the ad
breaks are marked as watched. i dont know how many ads i ever see in
youtube, i think its just the 5-15 second at the beginning

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 4:18 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I'm sure googlebot has now scanned this, and it's probably already
> 'fixed' it
>
> On 6/12/2020 4:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > We love you Bill.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Bill Prince Sent: Friday, June 12,
> > 2020 2:56 PM To: AFMUG Subject: [AFMUG] OT: How to skip ads on Youtube
> > Here's a spiffy trick. If you add a period (.) after the .com in a
> > youtube link, it will bypass all the ads embedded or prepended.
> >
> >
> > Example with ads:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuo7PovqiIQ
> >
> > Example without ads:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com./watch?v=Tuo7PovqiIQ
> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT found it

[Steve Jones]

this is one of the songs on spotify if you search statler brothers and let
it play through til it starts picking other songs, less jazzy glenn
campbell version like jaime refers too. I dont think glen campbell
ever made a crummy song.

damn kids today and their noise boxes just dont know what good music is,
thats why they fight all the time. You drop a Witchita Lineman in the
middle of a riot, everybody will just stop breaking stuff

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 12:57 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> In my top five favorite songs of all time..Glen Campbell's version...I
> even sang it at Karaoke club at friends birthday base.
> This version has some nice arrangements...I also remember a version down
> with Glen and a rock group in a dressing room...see if I can find it.
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 8:58 AM  wrote:
>
>> Been searching for this:
>> https://johnhollenbeck.bandcamp.com/track/wichita-lineman
>>
>> Heard it on my favorite jazz station a few weeks ago and been looking for
>> it ever since.
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Steve Jones]

That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first chance at
some space x bandwidth.

Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some major debris
field issues in space for future generations. But nobody can argue with the
fact that it is really cool that a guy like musk exists who just wants to
do some really cool shit, so he does some really cool shit. Every kid at
some point in life said, I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go
to mars.


On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert  wrote:

> They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be northern latitudes
> for a year according to a "insider" ( there are hundreds if not thousands
> of them )
>
>
> On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58 Starlink sats on
> Saturday. That puts them at almost double the number they claimed to need
> to enable their "private beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're
> running some kind of test  with the US military.
>
> All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of the 1.0 design.
> Depending on which news blurb you read, these sats all have to relay
> directly through ground stations, or they have some limited ability to go
> sat-to-sat via an RF link. We may find out before the end of the year.
>
> They also stated that they c/would start the public beta when they had ~~
> 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the pants estimation, that will be another
> 4-1/2 launches from now; maybe another 3 months. Call it September, but who
> knows.
>
> I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza box/flying
> saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one estimate that the build cost
> for it are in the neighborhood of $1200.
>
> I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will not longer be "OT".
>
> If you want to get notification when they can service your area, go here
> .
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Huevos Rancheros

[Steve Jones]

know what would be tasty on that jaime? some tasty spicy rice vinegar

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 10:50 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> My wife made these for herself..
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Re: [AFMUG] OT found it

[Ken Hohhof]

OMG, did the old age truck just hit Steve?

 



 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT found it

 

this is one of the songs on spotify if you search statler brothers and let it 
play through til it starts picking other songs, less jazzy glenn campbell 
version like jaime refers too. I dont think glen campbell ever made a crummy 
song.

 

damn kids today and their noise boxes just dont know what good music is, thats 
why they fight all the time. You drop a Witchita Lineman in the middle of a 
riot, everybody will just stop breaking stuff

 

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 12:57 PM Jaime Solorza mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

In my top five favorite songs of all time..Glen Campbell's version...I even 
sang it at Karaoke club at friends birthday base.

This version has some nice arrangements...I also remember a version down with 
Glen and a rock group in a dressing room...see if I can find it. 

 

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 8:58 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Been searching for this:

  
https://johnhollenbeck.bandcamp.com/track/wichita-lineman

 

Heard it on my favorite jazz station a few weeks ago and been looking for it 
ever since.  

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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Steve Jones]

Chuck, You want this adam guy has an accident, maybe he trips and falls,
lands on a cambium SS a couple times, maybe it happens by his towe, may
that tower has a weak leg and falls on him? maybe somebody forgets some gas
cans in his living room, maybe a racoon with a pack a day smoking habit
shows up. I dont know, sometimes things happen to guys who dont use mccown
tech stuff. not sayin there is a correlation, just happenstance that guys
with MT products brakes dont fail on a downhill grade like guys with other
brands.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:24 AM  wrote:

> MOVs are slow.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:12 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression
>
>
> For 48VDC I would actually prefer to see MOVs rather than (or in addition
> to) silicon avalanche diodes.  You’d never put an MOV across an Ethernet
> data line, but this is power, and MOVs can take a punch.
>
>
>
> Purewave used to recommend a device I think the model number was PP1, I
> don’t know who made it, and it doesn’t appear to be sold anymore.  But it
> had MOVs and maybe some other stuff.  Also had a light you could see from
> the ground which was surprisingly useful.  I don’t think it had an internal
> fuse.  I’d probably put that at the bottom, and maybe not a second surge
> protector.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:59 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression
>
>
>
> In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices
> using the $40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but
> after several years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That device
> was actually chosen due to a physical space restriction and not because it
> was believed to be better.
>
> I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation
> applied as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a cabinet
> door, and there was a limit on thickness of the housing).
>
> Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You won't
> get fired for buying the Transtector.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:
>
> I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we are
> going to utilize the one they recommended for top of tower:
> https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110
>
>
>
> I may consider the din rail one for in the box.
>
>
>
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge
> suppression at the top and bottom?
>
>
>
> I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:
>
>
>
> https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626
>
>
>
> Anything else I should be looking at?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Adam Moffett]

Damn, Illinois WISPs are hard core.


On 6/15/2020 12:58 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Chuck, You want this adam guy has an accident, maybe he trips and 
falls, lands on a cambium SS a couple times, maybe it happens by his 
towe, may that tower has a weak leg and falls on him? maybe somebody 
forgets some gas cans in his living room, maybe a racoon with a pack a 
day smoking habit shows up. I dont know, sometimes things happen to 
guys who dont use mccown tech stuff. not sayin there is a correlation, 
just happenstance that guys with MT products brakes dont fail on a 
downhill grade like guys with other brands.


On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:24 AM > wrote:


MOVs are slow.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:12 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

For 48VDC I would actually prefer to see MOVs rather than (or in
addition to) silicon avalanche diodes.  You’d never put an MOV
across an Ethernet data line, but this is power, and MOVs can take
a punch.

Purewave used to recommend a device I think the model number was
PP1, I don’t know who made it, and it doesn’t appear to be sold
anymore.  But it had MOVs and maybe some other stuff.  Also had a
light you could see from the ground which was surprisingly
useful.  I don’t think it had an internal fuse.  I’d probably put
that at the bottom, and maybe not a second surge protector.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60
devices using the $40 Cambium 200SSH. I don't know much about the
device, but after several years of lightning seasons nothing had
exploded.  That device was actually chosen due to a physical space
restriction and not because it was believed to be better.

I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space
limitation applied as the Transtector. (I was mounting on the
inside of a cabinet door, and there was a limit on thickness of
the housing).

Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You
won't get fired for buying the Transtector.

On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last
week, we are going to utilize the one they recommended for top
of tower: https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110

I may consider the din rail one for in the box.

Joe

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird
 wrote:

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you
using for surge suppression at the top and bottom?

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626

Anything else I should be looking at?


Thanks,

Josh

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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Mathew Howard]

I hear mccown tech stuff keeps away racoons with smoking habits.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:05 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Damn, Illinois WISPs are hard core.
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 12:58 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Chuck, You want this adam guy has an accident, maybe he trips and falls,
> lands on a cambium SS a couple times, maybe it happens by his towe, may
> that tower has a weak leg and falls on him? maybe somebody forgets some gas
> cans in his living room, maybe a racoon with a pack a day smoking habit
> shows up. I dont know, sometimes things happen to guys who dont use mccown
> tech stuff. not sayin there is a correlation, just happenstance that guys
> with MT products brakes dont fail on a downhill grade like guys with other
> brands.
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:24 AM  wrote:
>
>> MOVs are slow.
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:12 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression
>>
>>
>> For 48VDC I would actually prefer to see MOVs rather than (or in addition
>> to) silicon avalanche diodes.  You’d never put an MOV across an Ethernet
>> data line, but this is power, and MOVs can take a punch.
>>
>>
>>
>> Purewave used to recommend a device I think the model number was PP1, I
>> don’t know who made it, and it doesn’t appear to be sold anymore.  But it
>> had MOVs and maybe some other stuff.  Also had a light you could see from
>> the ground which was surprisingly useful.  I don’t think it had an internal
>> fuse.  I’d probably put that at the bottom, and maybe not a second surge
>> protector.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:59 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression
>>
>>
>>
>> In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices
>> using the $40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but
>> after several years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That device
>> was actually chosen due to a physical space restriction and not because it
>> was believed to be better.
>>
>> I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation
>> applied as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a cabinet
>> door, and there was a limit on thickness of the housing).
>>
>> Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You won't
>> get fired for buying the Transtector.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:
>>
>> I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we are
>> going to utilize the one they recommended for top of tower:
>> https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110
>>
>>
>>
>> I may consider the din rail one for in the box.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>> For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge
>> suppression at the top and bottom?
>>
>>
>>
>> I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626
>>
>>
>>
>> Anything else I should be looking at?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Bill Prince]

  
  
WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident".
  Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad enough, it
  could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the
  orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation plan. To some
  extent they are structuring their constellation to de-orbit
  quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically designed to
  de-orbit on their own at end of life.


bp



On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they
wanted first chance at some space x bandwidth.


Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some
  major debris field issues in space for future generations. But
  nobody can argue with the fact that it is really cool that a
  guy like musk exists who just wants to do some really cool
  shit, so he does some really cool shit. Every kid at some
  point in life said, I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah,
  imma go to mars.


  
  
  
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04
  PM Robert  wrote:


   They are already peering in Seattle, and will only
  be northern latitudes for a year according to a "insider"
  ( there are hundreds if not thousands of them )
  

On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


  In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58
Starlink sats on Saturday. That puts them at almost
double the number they claimed to need to enable their
"private beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're
running some kind of test  with the US military. 
  
  All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of
the 1.0 design. Depending on which news blurb you read,
these sats all have to relay directly through ground
stations, or they have some limited ability to go
sat-to-sat via an RF link. We may find out before the
end of the year.
  They also stated that they c/would start the public
beta when they had ~~ 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of
the pants estimation, that will be another 4-1/2
launches from now; maybe another 3 months. Call it
September, but who knows.
  I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their
pizza box/flying saucer on a stick user terminal. I
heard one estimate that the build cost for it are in the
neighborhood of $1200.
  I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will
not longer be "OT".
  If you want to get notification when they can service
your area, go here.
  
  
  
  -- 

bp



  
  


  
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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[Robert Andrews]

That's what I call brand loyalty!

On 06/15/2020 10:15 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

I hear mccown tech stuff keeps away racoons with smoking habits.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:05 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Damn, Illinois WISPs are hard core.


On 6/15/2020 12:58 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Chuck, You want this adam guy has an accident, maybe he trips and
falls, lands on a cambium SS a couple times, maybe it happens by
his towe, may that tower has a weak leg and falls on him? maybe
somebody forgets some gas cans in his living room, maybe a racoon
with a pack a day smoking habit shows up. I dont know, sometimes
things happen to guys who dont use mccown tech stuff. not sayin
there is a correlation, just happenstance that guys with MT
products brakes dont fail on a downhill grade like guys with other
brands.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:24 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

MOVs are slow.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:12 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

For 48VDC I would actually prefer to see MOVs rather than (or
in addition to) silicon avalanche diodes.  You’d never put an
MOV across an Ethernet data line, but this is power, and MOVs
can take a punch.

Purewave used to recommend a device I think the model number
was PP1, I don’t know who made it, and it doesn’t appear to be
sold anymore.  But it had MOVs and maybe some other stuff. 
Also had a light you could see from the ground which was
surprisingly useful.  I don’t think it had an internal fuse. 
I’d probably put that at the bottom, and maybe not a second

surge protector.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60
devices using the $40 Cambium 200SSH. I don't know much about
the device, but after several years of lightning seasons
nothing had exploded.  That device was actually chosen due to
a physical space restriction and not because it was believed
to be better.

I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space
limitation applied as the Transtector. (I was mounting on the
inside of a cabinet door, and there was a limit on thickness
of the housing).

Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though. 
You won't get fired for buying the Transtector.


On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last
week, we are going to utilize the one they recommended for
top of tower:
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110

I may consider the din rail one for in the box.

Joe

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird
 wrote:

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you
using for surge suppression at the top and bottom?

I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:

https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626

Anything else I should be looking at?


Thanks,

Josh

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Adam Moffett]

Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and would do 
150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.


Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work exactly as 
intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a sunspot and just 
become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low failure rate over 
many years could eventually leave a whole crapload of them buzzing 
around up there.


.I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that. Haven't they?


On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident". Then we 
will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad enough, it could cause 
SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the orbital space 
unless/until they provide a mitigation plan. To some extent they are 
structuring their constellation to de-orbit quickly already. Plus 
their sats are theoretically designed to de-orbit on their own at end 
of life.



bp


On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first chance 
at some space x bandwidth.


Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some major 
debris field issues in space for future generations. But nobody can 
argue with the fact that it is really cool that a guy like musk 
exists who just wants to do some really cool shit, so he does some 
really cool shit. Every kid at some point in life said, I wanna go to 
mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go to mars.



On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert > wrote:


They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be northern
latitudes for a year according to a "insider" ( there are
hundreds if not thousands of them )


On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58 Starlink
sats on Saturday. That puts them at almost double the number
they claimed to need to enable their "private beta". I'm sure
it's underway, plus they're running some kind of test  with the
US military.

All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of the 1.0
design. Depending on which news blurb you read, these sats all
have to relay directly through ground stations, or they have
some limited ability to go sat-to-sat via an RF link. We may
find out before the end of the year.

They also stated that they c/would start the public beta when
they had ~~ 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the pants
estimation, that will be another 4-1/2 launches from now; maybe
another 3 months. Call it September, but who knows.

I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza
box/flying saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one estimate
that the build cost for it are in the neighborhood of $1200.

I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will not longer
be "OT".

If you want to get notification when they can service your area,
go here .


-- 


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[AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[TJ Trout]

Looking for what type of wire you are using for DC sites? Telco grade DC
wire or dlo types?

What y'all like?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Each of those sats has > 60 Linux processors on board. That's
  a lot of "nodes" to deal with, and way more than a single firmware
  load. I'm sure the number is some level of built-in redundancy,
  but that level of detail is current;y lacking, and is probably
  proprietary anyway.

bp



On 6/15/2020 10:35 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
would do 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet. 
  
  Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work exactly
as intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
sunspot and just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even
a low failure rate over many years could eventually leave a
whole crapload of them buzzing around up there.
  
  .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that. 
Haven't they?
  
  
  
  On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince
wrote:
  
  

WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first
  "accident". Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's
  bad enough, it could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to
  relinquish all the orbital space unless/until they provide a
  mitigation plan. To some extent they are structuring their
  constellation to de-orbit quickly already. Plus their sats are
  theoretically designed to de-orbit on their own at end of
  life.


bp



On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is,
they wanted first chance at some space x bandwidth.


Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause
  some major debris field issues in space for future
  generations. But nobody can argue with the fact that it is
  really cool that a guy like musk exists who just wants to
  do some really cool shit, so he does some really cool
  shit. Every kid at some point in life said, I wanna go to
  mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go to mars.


  
  
  
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at
  6:04 PM Robert 
  wrote:


   They are already peering in Seattle, and will
  only be northern latitudes for a year according to a
  "insider" ( there are hundreds if not thousands of
  them )
  

On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


  In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another
58 Starlink sats on Saturday. That puts them at
almost double the number they claimed to need to
enable their "private beta". I'm sure it's underway,
plus they're running some kind of test  with the US
military. 
  
  All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are
of the 1.0 design. Depending on which news blurb you
read, these sats all have to relay directly through
ground stations, or they have some limited ability
to go sat-to-sat via an RF link. We may find out
before the end of the year.
  They also stated that they c/would start the public
beta when they had ~~ 800 sats in orbit. By my
seat-of the pants estimation, that will be another
4-1/2 launches from now; maybe another 3 months.
Call it September, but who knows.
  I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their
pizza box/flying saucer on a stick user terminal. I
heard one estimate that the build cost for it are in
the neighborhood of $1200.
  I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic
will not longer be "OT".
  If you want to get notification when they can
service your area, go here.
  
  
  
  -- 

bp



  
  


  
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Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[Josh Baird]

Inner-enclosure wire or wire to run up the tower?

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:46 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Looking for what type of wire you are using for DC sites? Telco grade DC
> wire or dlo types?
>
> What y'all like?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Steve Jones]

they already had a near miss once.

I cant image if a shuttle hit one of these, the debris spread we would see

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and would do
> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
>
> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work exactly as intended
> and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a sunspot and just become a
> piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low failure rate over many years
> could eventually leave a whole crapload of them buzzing around up there.
>
> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that.  Haven't
> they?
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident". Then we
> will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad enough, it could cause SpaceX
> (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the orbital space unless/until
> they provide a mitigation plan. To some extent they are structuring their
> constellation to de-orbit quickly already. Plus their sats are
> theoretically designed to de-orbit on their own at end of life.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first chance at
> some space x bandwidth.
>
> Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some major debris
> field issues in space for future generations. But nobody can argue with the
> fact that it is really cool that a guy like musk exists who just wants to
> do some really cool shit, so he does some really cool shit. Every kid at
> some point in life said, I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go
> to mars.
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be northern latitudes
>> for a year according to a "insider" ( there are hundreds if not thousands
>> of them )
>>
>>
>> On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58 Starlink sats on
>> Saturday. That puts them at almost double the number they claimed to need
>> to enable their "private beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're
>> running some kind of test  with the US military.
>>
>> All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of the 1.0 design.
>> Depending on which news blurb you read, these sats all have to relay
>> directly through ground stations, or they have some limited ability to go
>> sat-to-sat via an RF link. We may find out before the end of the year.
>>
>> They also stated that they c/would start the public beta when they had ~~
>> 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the pants estimation, that will be another
>> 4-1/2 launches from now; maybe another 3 months. Call it September, but who
>> knows.
>>
>> I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza box/flying
>> saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one estimate that the build cost
>> for it are in the neighborhood of $1200.
>>
>> I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will not longer be "OT".
>>
>> If you want to get notification when they can service your area, go here
>> .
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[TJ Trout]

Inside the shelter/noc wire

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 10:48 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

> Inner-enclosure wire or wire to run up the tower?
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:46 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Looking for what type of wire you are using for DC sites? Telco grade DC
>> wire or dlo types?
>>
>> What y'all like?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Shuttles stopped flying in 2011.


bp



On 6/15/2020 10:48 AM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  they already had a near miss once.


I cant image if a shuttle hit one of these, the debris
  spread we would see
  
  
  
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36
  PM Adam Moffett  wrote:


  
Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade
  and would do 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet. 

Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
  exactly as intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash
  during a sunspot and just become a piece of high velocity
  garbage.  Even a low failure rate over many years could
  eventually leave a whole crapload of them buzzing around
  up there.

.I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all
  that.  Haven't they?



On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


  WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first
"accident". Then we will see how this all shakes out. If
it's bad enough, it could cause SpaceX (and all its
brethren) to relinquish all the orbital space
unless/until they provide a mitigation plan. To some
extent they are structuring their constellation to
de-orbit quickly already. Plus their sats are
theoretically designed to de-orbit on their own at end
of life.
  
  
  bp



  On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
  
  
That explains what this whole CHAZ thing
  is, they wanted first chance at some space x
  bandwidth.
  
  
  Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to
cause some major debris field issues in space for
future generations. But nobody can argue with the
fact that it is really cool that a guy like musk
exists who just wants to do some really cool shit,
so he does some really cool shit. Every kid at some
point in life said, I wanna go to mars. Hes just
like, yeah, imma go to mars.
  
  



  On Sun, Jun 14, 2020
at 6:04 PM Robert 
wrote:
  
  
 They are already peering in Seattle, and
will only be northern latitudes for a year
according to a "insider" ( there are hundreds if
not thousands of them )

  
  On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
  
  
In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up
  another 58 Starlink sats on Saturday. That
  puts them at almost double the number they
  claimed to need to enable their "private
  beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're
  running some kind of test  with the US
  military. 

All the sats except for the first batch of 60
  are of the 1.0 design. Depending on which news
  blurb you read, these sats all have to relay
  directly through ground stations, or they have
  some limited ability to go sat-to-sat via an
  RF link. We may find out before the end of the
  year.
They also stated that they c/would start the
  public beta when they had ~~ 800 sats in
  orbit. By my seat-of the pants estimation,
  that will be another 4-1/2 launches from now;
  maybe another 3 months. Call it September, but
  who knows.
I think the biggest obstacle at this point is
  their pizza box/flying saucer on a stick user
  terminal. I heard one estimate that the build
  cost for it are in the neighborhood of $1200.
I would say by the beginning of 2021, this
  topic will not longer be "OT".

Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[Adam Moffett]

Red & black zip cord for power.  Whatever's cheapest.

For controls I'll get 18ga in just about any color /except/ red and black.

What's "telco grade" DC wire?  Is it personally inspected by the ghost 
of Alexander Graham Bell?



On 6/15/2020 1:45 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
Looking for what type of wire you are using for DC sites? Telco grade 
DC wire or dlo types?


What y'all like?

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[castarritt .]

with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years from drag.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and would do
> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
>
> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work exactly as intended
> and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a sunspot and just become a
> piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low failure rate over many years
> could eventually leave a whole crapload of them buzzing around up there.
>
> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that.  Haven't
> they?
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident". Then we
> will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad enough, it could cause SpaceX
> (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the orbital space unless/until
> they provide a mitigation plan. To some extent they are structuring their
> constellation to de-orbit quickly already. Plus their sats are
> theoretically designed to de-orbit on their own at end of life.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first chance at
> some space x bandwidth.
>
> Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some major debris
> field issues in space for future generations. But nobody can argue with the
> fact that it is really cool that a guy like musk exists who just wants to
> do some really cool shit, so he does some really cool shit. Every kid at
> some point in life said, I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go
> to mars.
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be northern latitudes
>> for a year according to a "insider" ( there are hundreds if not thousands
>> of them )
>>
>>
>> On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58 Starlink sats on
>> Saturday. That puts them at almost double the number they claimed to need
>> to enable their "private beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're
>> running some kind of test  with the US military.
>>
>> All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of the 1.0 design.
>> Depending on which news blurb you read, these sats all have to relay
>> directly through ground stations, or they have some limited ability to go
>> sat-to-sat via an RF link. We may find out before the end of the year.
>>
>> They also stated that they c/would start the public beta when they had ~~
>> 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the pants estimation, that will be another
>> 4-1/2 launches from now; maybe another 3 months. Call it September, but who
>> knows.
>>
>> I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza box/flying
>> saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one estimate that the build cost
>> for it are in the neighborhood of $1200.
>>
>> I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will not longer be "OT".
>>
>> If you want to get notification when they can service your area, go here
>> .
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] OT: The number of intelligent alien civilizations.

[Bill Prince]

and all this time, I thought the number was 42.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/intelligent-alien-civilisations-could-number-152319456.html

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Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

[chuck]

Yeah, they “work in the city”...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:05 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

Damn, Illinois WISPs are hard core.



On 6/15/2020 12:58 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  Chuck, You want this adam guy has an accident, maybe he trips and falls, 
lands on a cambium SS a couple times, maybe it happens by his towe, may that 
tower has a weak leg and falls on him? maybe somebody forgets some gas cans in 
his living room, maybe a racoon with a pack a day smoking habit shows up. I 
dont know, sometimes things happen to guys who dont use mccown tech stuff. not 
sayin there is a correlation, just happenstance that guys with MT products 
brakes dont fail on a downhill grade like guys with other brands.

  On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:24 AM  wrote:

MOVs are slow.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:12 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression

For 48VDC I would actually prefer to see MOVs rather than (or in addition 
to) silicon avalanche diodes.  You’d never put an MOV across an Ethernet data 
line, but this is power, and MOVs can take a punch.



Purewave used to recommend a device I think the model number was PP1, I 
don’t know who made it, and it doesn’t appear to be sold anymore.  But it had 
MOVs and maybe some other stuff.  Also had a light you could see from the 
ground which was surprisingly useful.  I don’t think it had an internal fuse.  
I’d probably put that at the bottom, and maybe not a second surge protector.



From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC surge supression



In my last adventure we installed DC up the tower to 50 or 60 devices using 
the $40 Cambium 200SSH.  I don't know much about the device, but after several 
years of lightning seasons nothing had exploded.  That device was actually 
chosen due to a physical space restriction and not because it was believed to 
be better.  

I had looked at the McCown Tech SS as well, but same space limitation 
applied as the Transtector.  (I was mounting on the inside of a cabinet door, 
and there was a limit on thickness of the housing).

Transtector is basically the name brand in this field though.  You won't 
get fired for buying the Transtector.





On 6/15/2020 10:09 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

  I was talking to Ken Ruppel w/ Aviat about this just last week, we are 
going to utilize the one they recommended for top of tower:   
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1101-1110 



  I may consider the din rail one for in the box.





  Joe





  On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

For those of you running DC up the tower, what are you using for surge 
suppression at the top and bottom? 



I have seen these mentioned previously on this list:



https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-626



Anything else I should be looking at?


Thanks,



Josh

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Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[Seth Mattinen]

On 6/15/20 10:51 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
What's "telco grade" DC wire?  Is it personally inspected by the ghost 
of Alexander Graham Bell?



I would assume telcoflex wire.

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Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[chuck]

I just use stranded thhn wire. It is indoor.  I prefer solid but for DC the 
terminals seem to cinch down better on stranded.  Solid will work itself 
loose it seems in almost any kind of connector except wirenuts.


-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 12:23 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

On 6/15/20 10:51 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
What's "telco grade" DC wire?  Is it personally inspected by the ghost of 
Alexander Graham Bell?



I would assume telcoflex wire.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Steve Jones]

you can call it a rocket, pickle hammer space boat, whatever. anything with
some folks inside will always answer as a shuttle

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:51 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Shuttles stopped flying in 2011.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 10:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> they already had a near miss once.
>
> I cant image if a shuttle hit one of these, the debris spread we would see
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and would do
>> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
>>
>> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work exactly as
>> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a sunspot and just
>> become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low failure rate over many
>> years could eventually leave a whole crapload of them buzzing around up
>> there.
>>
>> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that.  Haven't
>> they?
>>
>>
>> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident". Then we
>> will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad enough, it could cause SpaceX
>> (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the orbital space unless/until
>> they provide a mitigation plan. To some extent they are structuring their
>> constellation to de-orbit quickly already. Plus their sats are
>> theoretically designed to de-orbit on their own at end of life.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first chance at
>> some space x bandwidth.
>>
>> Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some major debris
>> field issues in space for future generations. But nobody can argue with the
>> fact that it is really cool that a guy like musk exists who just wants to
>> do some really cool shit, so he does some really cool shit. Every kid at
>> some point in life said, I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go
>> to mars.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert  wrote:
>>
>>> They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be northern latitudes
>>> for a year according to a "insider" ( there are hundreds if not thousands
>>> of them )
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58 Starlink sats on
>>> Saturday. That puts them at almost double the number they claimed to need
>>> to enable their "private beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're
>>> running some kind of test  with the US military.
>>>
>>> All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of the 1.0 design.
>>> Depending on which news blurb you read, these sats all have to relay
>>> directly through ground stations, or they have some limited ability to go
>>> sat-to-sat via an RF link. We may find out before the end of the year.
>>>
>>> They also stated that they c/would start the public beta when they had
>>> ~~ 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the pants estimation, that will be
>>> another 4-1/2 launches from now; maybe another 3 months. Call it September,
>>> but who knows.
>>>
>>> I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza box/flying
>>> saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one estimate that the build cost
>>> for it are in the neighborhood of $1200.
>>>
>>> I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will not longer be "OT".
>>>
>>> If you want to get notification when they can service your area, go here
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[TJ Trout]

I use red black zip cord as well, but I noticed that carriers, telco's etc
use a much higher quality wire with more abrasion resistance, just all
around better quality.

'central office' type wire has a cotton saturated jacket.

I've seen DLO (diesel locomotive) wire used, which is even a step above I
think, 2000v insulation, etc. Search exane wire

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:52 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Red & black zip cord for power.  Whatever's cheapest.
>
> For controls I'll get 18ga in just about any color *except* red and black.
>
> What's "telco grade" DC wire?  Is it personally inspected by the ghost of
> Alexander Graham Bell?
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 1:45 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> Looking for what type of wire you are using for DC sites? Telco grade DC
> wire or dlo types?
>
> What y'all like?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Robert Andrews]

& I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..

On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:

with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years from drag.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and would do
150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.

Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work exactly as
intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a sunspot and
just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low failure
rate over many years could eventually leave a whole crapload of them
buzzing around up there.

.I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that.
Haven't they?


On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident".
Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad enough, it
could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the
orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation plan. To some
extent they are structuring their constellation to de-orbit
quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically designed to
de-orbit on their own at end of life.


bp


On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first
chance at some space x bandwidth.

Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some major
debris field issues in space for future generations. But nobody
can argue with the fact that it is really cool that a guy like
musk exists who just wants to do some really cool shit, so he
does some really cool shit. Every kid at some point in life said,
I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go to mars.


On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be
northern latitudes for a year according to a "insider" (
there are hundreds if not thousands of them )


On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58
Starlink sats on Saturday. That puts them at almost double
the number they claimed to need to enable their "private
beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're running some
kind of test  with the US military.

All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of the 1.0
design. Depending on which news blurb you read, these sats
all have to relay directly through ground stations, or they
have some limited ability to go sat-to-sat via an RF link.
We may find out before the end of the year.

They also stated that they c/would start the public beta
when they had ~~ 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the pants
estimation, that will be another 4-1/2 launches from now;
maybe another 3 months. Call it September, but who knows.

I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza
box/flying saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one
estimate that the build cost for it are in the neighborhood
of $1200.

I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will not
longer be "OT".

If you want to get notification when they can service your
area, go here .


-- 


bp





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Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[Carl Peterson]

Solid works well in WAGO connectors.  I wish there were a similar connector
for connecting to devices.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:27 PM  wrote:

> I just use stranded thhn wire. It is indoor.  I prefer solid but for DC
> the
> terminals seem to cinch down better on stranded.  Solid will work itself
> loose it seems in almost any kind of connector except wirenuts.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 12:23 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type
>
> On 6/15/20 10:51 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> > What's "telco grade" DC wire?  Is it personally inspected by the ghost
> of
> > Alexander Graham Bell?
>
>
> I would assume telcoflex wire.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
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>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

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Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Bill Prince]

SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the satellites will 
be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with the 
lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps where 
the 10 year number came from.



bp


On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:

& I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..

On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:

with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years from drag.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


    Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and would do
    150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.

    Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work exactly as
    intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a sunspot and
    just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low failure
    rate over many years could eventually leave a whole crapload of them
    buzzing around up there.

    .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that.
    Haven't they?


    On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


    WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident".
    Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad enough, it
    could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the
    orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation plan. To some
    extent they are structuring their constellation to de-orbit
    quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically designed to
    de-orbit on their own at end of life.


    bp
    

    On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

    That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first
    chance at some space x bandwidth.

    Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some major
    debris field issues in space for future generations. But nobody
    can argue with the fact that it is really cool that a guy like
    musk exists who just wants to do some really cool shit, so he
    does some really cool shit. Every kid at some point in life said,
    I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go to mars.


    On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

    They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be
    northern latitudes for a year according to a "insider" (
    there are hundreds if not thousands of them )


    On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


    In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58
    Starlink sats on Saturday. That puts them at almost double
    the number they claimed to need to enable their "private
    beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're running some
    kind of test  with the US military.

    All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of the 1.0
    design. Depending on which news blurb you read, these sats
    all have to relay directly through ground stations, or they
    have some limited ability to go sat-to-sat via an RF link.
    We may find out before the end of the year.

    They also stated that they c/would start the public beta
    when they had ~~ 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the pants
    estimation, that will be another 4-1/2 launches from now;
    maybe another 3 months. Call it September, but who knows.

    I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza
    box/flying saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one
    estimate that the build cost for it are in the neighborhood
    of $1200.

    I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will not
    longer be "OT".

    If you want to get notification when they can service your
    area, go here .


    --
    bp
    




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    AF@af.afmug.com 
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[Josh Baird]

I just ordered some of this yesterday for that use:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3N6722/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I just use red/black zip most of the time.. either 16AWG or 12AWG depending
on the usage.  Avoid CCA.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:51 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Inside the shelter/noc wire
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 10:48 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Inner-enclosure wire or wire to run up the tower?
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:46 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> Looking for what type of wire you are using for DC sites? Telco grade DC
>>> wire or dlo types?
>>>
>>> What y'all like?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Carl Peterson]

A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.  The
design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in that
when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag but
uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.  ~5
years at 550km without looking it up.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the satellites will
> be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with the
> lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps where
> the 10 year number came from.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
> >
> > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
> >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years from drag.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and would do
> >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
> >>
> >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work exactly as
> >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a sunspot and
> >> just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low failure
> >> rate over many years could eventually leave a whole crapload of them
> >> buzzing around up there.
> >>
> >> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that.
> >> Haven't they?
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >>>
> >>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident".
> >>> Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad enough, it
> >>> could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the
> >>> orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation plan. To some
> >>> extent they are structuring their constellation to de-orbit
> >>> quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically designed to
> >>> de-orbit on their own at end of life.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> bp
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>  That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first
>  chance at some space x bandwidth.
> 
>  Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some major
>  debris field issues in space for future generations. But nobody
>  can argue with the fact that it is really cool that a guy like
>  musk exists who just wants to do some really cool shit, so he
>  does some really cool shit. Every kid at some point in life said,
>  I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go to mars.
> 
> 
>  On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert   > wrote:
> 
>  They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be
>  northern latitudes for a year according to a "insider" (
>  there are hundreds if not thousands of them )
> 
> 
>  On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >
> > In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58
> > Starlink sats on Saturday. That puts them at almost double
> > the number they claimed to need to enable their "private
> > beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're running some
> > kind of test  with the US military.
> >
> > All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of the 1.0
> > design. Depending on which news blurb you read, these sats
> > all have to relay directly through ground stations, or they
> > have some limited ability to go sat-to-sat via an RF link.
> > We may find out before the end of the year.
> >
> > They also stated that they c/would start the public beta
> > when they had ~~ 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the pants
> > estimation, that will be another 4-1/2 launches from now;
> > maybe another 3 months. Call it September, but who knows.
> >
> > I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza
> > box/flying saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one
> > estimate that the build cost for it are in the neighborhood
> > of $1200.
> >
> > I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will not
> > longer be "OT".
> >
> > If you want to get notification when they can service your
> > area, go here .
> >
> >
> > --
> > bp
> > 
> >
> >
> 
>  -- AF mailing list
>  AF@af.afmug.com 
>  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>

Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[Ken Hohhof]

I have usually ordered red/black zip cord from Powerwerx, but your stuff looks 
nicer.

 

For short runs outdoors, like from a NEMA box to a Cambium PTP820 outdoor POE, 
I have used landscape cable from Home Depot.

 

The expert on wiring inside enclosures would probably be Jamie.

 

In any case, I’ve become a big believer in ferrules.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 2:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

 

I just ordered some of this yesterday for that use:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3N6722/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8
 

 &psc=1

 

I just use red/black zip most of the time.. either 16AWG or 12AWG depending on 
the usage.  Avoid CCA.

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:51 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > wrote:

Inside the shelter/noc wire

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 10:48 AM Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Inner-enclosure wire or wire to run up the tower?

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:46 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > wrote:

Looking for what type of wire you are using for DC sites? Telco grade DC wire 
or dlo types?

 

What y'all like?

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Robert Andrews]

So was my thoughts about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does 
it clear itself out in 5 years?


On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.  The 
design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in that 
when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag but 
uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.  ~5 
years at 550km without looking it up.


On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince > wrote:


SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the satellites will
be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with the
lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps
where
the 10 year number came from.


bp


On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
 >
 > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
 >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years
from drag.
 >>
 >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
 >> >> wrote:
 >>
 >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
would do
 >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
 >>
 >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
exactly as
 >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
sunspot and
 >> just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low
failure
 >> rate over many years could eventually leave a whole crapload
of them
 >> buzzing around up there.
 >>
 >> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that.
 >> Haven't they?
 >>
 >>
 >> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
 >>>
 >>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident".
 >>> Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad
enough, it
 >>> could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the
 >>> orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation plan.
To some
 >>> extent they are structuring their constellation to de-orbit
 >>> quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically designed to
 >>> de-orbit on their own at end of life.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> bp
 >>> 
 >>>
 >>> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
  That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first
  chance at some space x bandwidth.
 
  Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some
major
  debris field issues in space for future generations. But
nobody
  can argue with the fact that it is really cool that a guy like
  musk exists who just wants to do some really cool shit, so he
  does some really cool shit. Every kid at some point in
life said,
  I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go to mars.
 
 
  On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>
  >> wrote:
 
  They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be
  northern latitudes for a year according to a "insider" (
  there are hundreds if not thousands of them )
 
 
  On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
 >
 > In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58
 > Starlink sats on Saturday. That puts them at almost
double
 > the number they claimed to need to enable their "private
 > beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're running some
 > kind of test  with the US military.
 >
 > All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of
the 1.0
 > design. Depending on which news blurb you read, these
sats
 > all have to relay directly through ground stations,
or they
 > have some limited ability to go sat-to-sat via an RF
link.
 > We may find out before the end of the year.
 >
 > They also stated that they c/would start the public beta
 > when they had ~~ 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the
pants
 > estimation, that will be another 4-1/2 launches from now;
 > maybe another 3 months. Call it September, but who knows.
 >
 > I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza
 > box/flying saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one
 >

Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[Josh Baird]

Ferrule-ize everything!

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:34 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I have usually ordered red/black zip cord from Powerwerx, but your stuff
> looks nicer.
>
>
>
> For short runs outdoors, like from a NEMA box to a Cambium PTP820 outdoor
> POE, I have used landscape cable from Home Depot.
>
>
>
> The expert on wiring inside enclosures would probably be Jamie.
>
>
>
> In any case, I’ve become a big believer in ferrules.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 2:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type
>
>
>
> I just ordered some of this yesterday for that use:
>
>
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3N6722/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
>
>
> I just use red/black zip most of the time.. either 16AWG or 12AWG
> depending on the usage.  Avoid CCA.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:51 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> Inside the shelter/noc wire
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 10:48 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> Inner-enclosure wire or wire to run up the tower?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:46 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> Looking for what type of wire you are using for DC sites? Telco grade DC
> wire or dlo types?
>
>
>
> What y'all like?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun, kinda lenty

[Robert Andrews]

That's a good analogy..   The tribes are about as fair as protesters...

On 06/15/2020 12:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Maybe they should check with tribal nations to see how semi independence 
is working out.  Hey, things are never so bad they couldn’t be worse.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 1:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun, kinda lenty

The issue of whether you can break away peacefully from the USA was 
settled in 1865 (spoiler alert, you can't).  But if history repeats 
itself then CHAZ will be ignored until they decide not to pay taxes or 
some similar obviously illegal thing.


People tolerated the Freemen in Montana until they started writing fake 
checks.


Do we remember the "Principality of Sealand"?  They were like, "We're a 
country".  UK is like, "No you're not."  Then their platform was boarded 
by mercenaries and they were like, "Send the police!" and UK is like, "I 
thought you lads were a country?"


On 6/15/2020 2:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:

image







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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Steve Jones]

When things collide they will go many different directions and velocities,
there is no calculation for when that will be cleared, or even where the
debris even is

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:36 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> So was my thoughts about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does
> it clear itself out in 5 years?
>
> On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
> > A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.  The
> > design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in that
> > when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag but
> > uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.  ~5
> > years at 550km without looking it up.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince  > > wrote:
> >
> > SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the satellites
> will
> > be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with the
> > lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps
> > where
> > the 10 year number came from.
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> >  > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
> >  >
> >  > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
> >  >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years
> > from drag.
> >  >>
> >  >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett
> > mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
> >  >> >>
> wrote:
> >  >>
> >  >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
> > would do
> >  >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
> >  >>
> >  >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
> > exactly as
> >  >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
> > sunspot and
> >  >> just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low
> > failure
> >  >> rate over many years could eventually leave a whole crapload
> > of them
> >  >> buzzing around up there.
> >  >>
> >  >> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all
> that.
> >  >> Haven't they?
> >  >>
> >  >>
> >  >> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >  >>>
> >  >>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first
> "accident".
> >  >>> Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad
> > enough, it
> >  >>> could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish all
> the
> >  >>> orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation plan.
> > To some
> >  >>> extent they are structuring their constellation to de-orbit
> >  >>> quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically designed
> to
> >  >>> de-orbit on their own at end of life.
> >  >>>
> >  >>>
> >  >>> bp
> >  >>> 
> >  >>>
> >  >>> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> >   That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted
> first
> >   chance at some space x bandwidth.
> >  
> >   Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some
> > major
> >   debris field issues in space for future generations. But
> > nobody
> >   can argue with the fact that it is really cool that a guy
> like
> >   musk exists who just wants to do some really cool shit, so
> he
> >   does some really cool shit. Every kid at some point in
> > life said,
> >   I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go to mars.
> >  
> >  
> >   On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert
> > mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>
> >    > >> wrote:
> >  
> >   They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be
> >   northern latitudes for a year according to a "insider"
> (
> >   there are hundreds if not thousands of them )
> >  
> >  
> >   On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >  >
> >  > In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58
> >  > Starlink sats on Saturday. That puts them at almost
> > double
> >  > the number they claimed to need to enable their
> "private
> >  > beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're running
> some
> >  > kind of test  with the US military.
> >  >
> >  > All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of
> > the 1.0
> >  > design. Depending on which news blurb you read, these
> > sats
> >  > all have to relay directly through ground stations,
> > o

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Huevos Rancheros

[Jaime Solorza]

Lol

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 10:49 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> know what would be tasty on that jaime? some tasty spicy rice vinegar
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 10:50 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> My wife made these for herself..
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[castarritt .]

A low orbit bird isn't going to get smacked from behind, so it would be
reasonable to assume that the vast majority if not all of the debris will
lose velocity instead of gaining it.  Also, small chunks of satellite
should have a lower ballistic coefficient than an intact satellite (mass
reduced by cube of size vs surface area reduced by square), so they should
experience greater decceleration from atmospheric drag.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:42 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> When things collide they will go many different directions and velocities,
> there is no calculation for when that will be cleared, or even where the
> debris even is
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:36 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> So was my thoughts about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does
>> it clear itself out in 5 years?
>>
>> On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
>> > A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.  The
>> > design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in that
>> > when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag
>> but
>> > uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.
>> ~5
>> > years at 550km without looking it up.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the satellites
>> will
>> > be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with the
>> > lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps
>> > where
>> > the 10 year number came from.
>> >
>> >
>> > bp
>> > 
>> >
>> > On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> >  > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
>> >  >
>> >  > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
>> >  >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years
>> > from drag.
>> >  >>
>> >  >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett
>> > mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>> >  >> >>
>> wrote:
>> >  >>
>> >  >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
>> > would do
>> >  >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
>> >  >>
>> >  >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
>> > exactly as
>> >  >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
>> > sunspot and
>> >  >> just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low
>> > failure
>> >  >> rate over many years could eventually leave a whole crapload
>> > of them
>> >  >> buzzing around up there.
>> >  >>
>> >  >> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all
>> that.
>> >  >> Haven't they?
>> >  >>
>> >  >>
>> >  >> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> >  >>>
>> >  >>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first
>> "accident".
>> >  >>> Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad
>> > enough, it
>> >  >>> could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish
>> all the
>> >  >>> orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation plan.
>> > To some
>> >  >>> extent they are structuring their constellation to de-orbit
>> >  >>> quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically
>> designed to
>> >  >>> de-orbit on their own at end of life.
>> >  >>>
>> >  >>>
>> >  >>> bp
>> >  >>> 
>> >  >>>
>> >  >>> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> >   That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted
>> first
>> >   chance at some space x bandwidth.
>> >  
>> >   Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some
>> > major
>> >   debris field issues in space for future generations. But
>> > nobody
>> >   can argue with the fact that it is really cool that a guy
>> like
>> >   musk exists who just wants to do some really cool shit,
>> so he
>> >   does some really cool shit. Every kid at some point in
>> > life said,
>> >   I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go to mars.
>> >  
>> >  
>> >   On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert
>> > mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>
>> >   > > >> wrote:
>> >  
>> >   They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be
>> >   northern latitudes for a year according to a
>> "insider" (
>> >   there are hundreds if not thousands of them )
>> >  
>> >  
>> >   On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> >  >
>> >  > In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Combine with the probability that collisions are going to be with
  birds with 90-180 degree relative vectors. Sats going in the same
  relative direction should "never" collide (he says
  optimistically). That means the combined velocities are going to
  go down pretty quickly (quicker de-orbit). Not so optimistically,
  they probably won't be direct hits, but more likely glancing
  blows.
I expect something is going to happen in the next 5-10 years, and
  we will learn at least one failure mode.

bp



On 6/15/2020 12:50 PM, castarritt .
  wrote:


  
  A low orbit bird isn't going to get smacked from
behind, so it would be reasonable to assume that the vast
majority if not all of the debris will lose velocity instead of
gaining it.  Also, small chunks of satellite should have a lower
ballistic coefficient than an intact satellite (mass reduced by
cube of size vs surface area reduced by square), so they should
experience greater decceleration from atmospheric drag.
  
  
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:42
  PM Steve Jones 
  wrote:


  When things collide they will go many different
directions and velocities, there is no calculation for when
that will be cleared, or even where the debris even is
  
  
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at
  2:36 PM Robert Andrews 
  wrote:

So was my thoughts
  about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does 
  it clear itself out in 5 years?
  
  On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
  > A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you
  around 10 years.  The 
  > design of the starlink satellite is somewhat
  optimized for this in that 
  > when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to
  atmospheric drag but 
  > uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and
  degrade much faster.  ~5 
  > years at 550km without looking it up.
  > 
  > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince  part15...@gmail.com>>
  wrote:
  > 
  >     SpaceX states that at the current service
  altitude, the satellites will
  >     be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons
  they went with the
  >     lower service altitude. The original was up
  substantially; perhaps
  >     where
  >     the 10 year number came from.
  > 
  > 
  >     bp
  >     
  > 
  >     On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  >      > & I believe debris at that altitude
  deorbits even faster..
  >      >
  >      > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
  >      >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit
  naturally after ~10years
  >     from drag.
  >      >>
  >      >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam
  Moffett
  >     
  >      >> dmmoff...@gmail.com
  dmmoff...@gmail.com>>>
  wrote:
  >      >>
  >      >>     Theoretically a Ubiquiti
  Nanostation was carrier grade and
  >     would do
  >      >>     150Mbps.  It said so on the
  datasheet.
  >      >>
  >      >>     Just saying maybe the small, cheap
  satellite will work
  >     exactly as
  >      >>     intended and maybe it'll have a
  firmware crash during a
  >     sunspot and
  >      >>     just become a piece of high
  velocity garbage.  Even a low
  >     failure
  >      >>     rate over many years could
  eventually leave a whole crapload
  >     of them
  >      >>     buzzing around up there.
  >      >>
  >      >>     .I'm sure people smarter than
  me have thought of all that.
  >      >>     Haven't they?
  >      >>
  >      >>
  >      >>     On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince
  wrote:
  >      >>>
  >      >>>     WRT orbiting debris; it's all
  good until the first "accident".
  >      >>>     Then we will see how this all
  shakes out. If it's bad
  >     enough, it
   

Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I almost always buy from PowerWerx just to avoid the 'fake copper' issue
where you never know if the Amazon sellers are actually selling copper
wire, or CCA they're passing off as copper..

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:34 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I have usually ordered red/black zip cord from Powerwerx, but your stuff
> looks nicer.
>
>
>
> For short runs outdoors, like from a NEMA box to a Cambium PTP820 outdoor
> POE, I have used landscape cable from Home Depot.
>
>
>
> The expert on wiring inside enclosures would probably be Jamie.
>
>
>
> In any case, I’ve become a big believer in ferrules.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 2:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Favorite DC wire c/o type
>
>
>
> I just ordered some of this yesterday for that use:
>
>
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3N6722/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
>
>
> I just use red/black zip most of the time.. either 16AWG or 12AWG
> depending on the usage.  Avoid CCA.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:51 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> Inside the shelter/noc wire
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 10:48 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> Inner-enclosure wire or wire to run up the tower?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:46 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> Looking for what type of wire you are using for DC sites? Telco grade DC
> wire or dlo types?
>
>
>
> What y'all like?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[castarritt .]

I suppose the most interesting failure mode would be a vulnerability that
allows a hacker to make all the birds maneuver and crash into each other.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:46 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Combine with the probability that collisions are going to be with birds
> with 90-180 degree relative vectors. Sats going in the same relative
> direction should "never" collide (he says optimistically). That means the
> combined velocities are going to go down pretty quickly (quicker de-orbit).
> Not so optimistically, they probably won't be direct hits, but more likely
> glancing blows.
>
> I expect something is going to happen in the next 5-10 years, and we will
> learn at least one failure mode.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 12:50 PM, castarritt . wrote:
>
> A low orbit bird isn't going to get smacked from behind, so it would be
> reasonable to assume that the vast majority if not all of the debris will
> lose velocity instead of gaining it.  Also, small chunks of satellite
> should have a lower ballistic coefficient than an intact satellite (mass
> reduced by cube of size vs surface area reduced by square), so they should
> experience greater decceleration from atmospheric drag.
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:42 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> When things collide they will go many different directions and
>> velocities, there is no calculation for when that will be cleared, or even
>> where the debris even is
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:36 PM Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So was my thoughts about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does
>>> it clear itself out in 5 years?
>>>
>>> On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
>>> > A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.
>>> The
>>> > design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in
>>> that
>>> > when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag
>>> but
>>> > uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.
>>> ~5
>>> > years at 550km without looking it up.
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince >> > > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the satellites
>>> will
>>> > be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with
>>> the
>>> > lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps
>>> > where
>>> > the 10 year number came from.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > bp
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> > On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>> >  > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
>>> >  >
>>> >  > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
>>> >  >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years
>>> > from drag.
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett
>>> > mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>>> >  >> >>
>>> wrote:
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
>>> > would do
>>> >  >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
>>> > exactly as
>>> >  >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
>>> > sunspot and
>>> >  >> just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low
>>> > failure
>>> >  >> rate over many years could eventually leave a whole
>>> crapload
>>> > of them
>>> >  >> buzzing around up there.
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all
>>> that.
>>> >  >> Haven't they?
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> >  >>>
>>> >  >>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first
>>> "accident".
>>> >  >>> Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad
>>> > enough, it
>>> >  >>> could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish
>>> all the
>>> >  >>> orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation plan.
>>> > To some
>>> >  >>> extent they are structuring their constellation to
>>> de-orbit
>>> >  >>> quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically
>>> designed to
>>> >  >>> de-orbit on their own at end of life.
>>> >  >>>
>>> >  >>>
>>> >  >>> bp
>>> >  >>> 
>>> >  >>>
>>> >  >>> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> >   That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted
>>> first
>>> >   chance at some space x bandwidth.
>>> >  
>>> >   Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause
>>> some
>>> > major
>>> >   debris field issues in space for future generations. But
>>> > nobody
>>> >   can argue with the fact that it is really cool that a
>>> guy like
>>> >   

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[castarritt .]

Even better, make them use up all their fuel boosting into a more stable
orbit where they can crank the transmitters up to eleven and shit out
maximum noise for the next hundred years.  Now that I think about it, a
constellation of 10k "starlink" birds that just by pure coincidence happen
to have DoD developed "radios" in them for high power ultra wide band
transmission would have some interesting applications.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:50 PM castarritt .  wrote:

> I suppose the most interesting failure mode would be a vulnerability that
> allows a hacker to make all the birds maneuver and crash into each other.
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:46 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Combine with the probability that collisions are going to be with birds
>> with 90-180 degree relative vectors. Sats going in the same relative
>> direction should "never" collide (he says optimistically). That means the
>> combined velocities are going to go down pretty quickly (quicker de-orbit).
>> Not so optimistically, they probably won't be direct hits, but more likely
>> glancing blows.
>>
>> I expect something is going to happen in the next 5-10 years, and we will
>> learn at least one failure mode.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/15/2020 12:50 PM, castarritt . wrote:
>>
>> A low orbit bird isn't going to get smacked from behind, so it would be
>> reasonable to assume that the vast majority if not all of the debris will
>> lose velocity instead of gaining it.  Also, small chunks of satellite
>> should have a lower ballistic coefficient than an intact satellite (mass
>> reduced by cube of size vs surface area reduced by square), so they should
>> experience greater decceleration from atmospheric drag.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:42 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> When things collide they will go many different directions and
>>> velocities, there is no calculation for when that will be cleared, or even
>>> where the debris even is
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:36 PM Robert Andrews 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 So was my thoughts about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does
 it clear itself out in 5 years?

 On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
 > A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.
 The
 > design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in
 that
 > when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag
 but
 > uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.
 ~5
 > years at 550km without looking it up.
 >
 > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince >>> > > wrote:
 >
 > SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the
 satellites will
 > be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with
 the
 > lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps
 > where
 > the 10 year number came from.
 >
 >
 > bp
 > 
 >
 > On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 >  > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
 >  >
 >  > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
 >  >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years
 > from drag.
 >  >>
 >  >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett
 > mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
 >  >> >>
 wrote:
 >  >>
 >  >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
 > would do
 >  >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
 >  >>
 >  >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
 > exactly as
 >  >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
 > sunspot and
 >  >> just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low
 > failure
 >  >> rate over many years could eventually leave a whole
 crapload
 > of them
 >  >> buzzing around up there.
 >  >>
 >  >> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all
 that.
 >  >> Haven't they?
 >  >>
 >  >>
 >  >> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
 >  >>>
 >  >>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first
 "accident".
 >  >>> Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad
 > enough, it
 >  >>> could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish
 all the
 >  >>> orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation
 plan.
 > To some
 >  >>> extent they are structuring their constellation to
 de-orbit
 >  >>> quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically
 designed to
 >  >>> de-orbit on their own at end of life.

[AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

[Jaime Solorza]

Cellular outages all over the place...
Chuck?
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Dev]

I walked through the ovens at Auschwitz and Birkenau a couple years ago, it was 
totally silent, no one spoke, we couldn’t find the words. Hardest place I’ve 
ever been. Pure evil. Define that how you will.

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 12:03 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> We watched a movie called “Night and Fog” in high school.  I wish I hadn’t.  
> I will never get those images of folks being slid into the cookers out of my 
> mind.  
> It was a mix of nazi footage and liberators footage.  Sounds like your 89th 
> book but the film version.  
>  
> From: Ken Hohhof <>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:57 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> It’s probably like the moon landing deniers.  They can confront Buzz Aldrin, 
> who can punch them in the nose.  But soon everyone who was actually there 
> will be dead, and people can rewrite history to fit their biases and 
> conspiracy theories.
>  
> Most of the people like my dad who fought in World War II wanted to move on 
> with life and didn’t talk much about the war.  But his army unit (89th 
> infantry division) put together a book with history and photos, including 
> emaciated survivors and dead bodies stacked like firewood at sub-camps of 
> Buchenwald.  You have never seen anything like it in your life, and you don’t 
> want to.  Obviously I wasn’t there, but my dad was, and anybody who theorizes 
> that it was just propaganda makes me want to do a Buzz Aldrin on them.
>  
> Like the Marx Brothers quote, who are you going to believe, me or your own 
> eyes?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM 
> 
>  
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:08 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
> on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
> killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
> them.
>  
>  
> This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..
>  
>  
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <>] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com <>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  
> So I only know what I have experienced.
>  
> But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
> something happened
> Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
> there’s that...
>  
> From: Adam Moffett 
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
> astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind 
> of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
> since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding 
> and supporting each other.  
> Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
> magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 
>  
> On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
>> I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on 
>> a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just 
>> seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age 
>> where these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
>> 
>> On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently 
>>> is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
>>> those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in 
>>> liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can 
>>> you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a 
>>> friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and 
>>> tests.  We kept telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were 
>>> joking.  Brings new meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <> On Behalf Of Robert
>>> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com <>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>  
>>> Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think.. 
>>>  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with 
>>> his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of 
>>> Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and 
>>> betting systems..

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun, kinda lenty

[James Howard]

CHAZ apparently turned to CHOP earlier today.  Was too lazy to read (or even 
watch) what that actually meant.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 2:36 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun, kinda lenty

That's a good analogy.. The tribes are about as fair as protesters...

On 06/15/2020 12:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Maybe they should check with tribal nations to see how semi independence
> is working out. Hey, things are never so bad they couldn’t be worse.
>
> *From:* AF  *On 
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 1:25 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun, kinda lenty
>
> The issue of whether you can break away peacefully from the USA was
> settled in 1865 (spoiler alert, you can't). But if history repeats
> itself then CHAZ will be ignored until they decide not to pay taxes or
> some similar obviously illegal thing.
>
> People tolerated the Freemen in Montana until they started writing fake
> checks.
>
> Do we remember the "Principality of Sealand"? They were like, "We're a
> country". UK is like, "No you're not." Then their platform was boarded
> by mercenaries and they were like, "Send the police!" and UK is like, "I
> thought you lads were a country?"
>
> On 6/15/2020 2:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
>  wrote:
>
> image
>
>
>
>
>

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[AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[justsumname .]

is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally
bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun, kinda lenty

[Steve Jones]

damnit, now i gotta get my tattoo changed

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:55 PM James Howard  wrote:

> CHAZ apparently turned to CHOP earlier today.  Was too lazy to read (or
> even watch) what that actually meant.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Andrews
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 2:36 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun, kinda lenty
>
>
>
> That's a good analogy.. The tribes are about as fair as protesters...
>
> On 06/15/2020 12:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > Maybe they should check with tribal nations to see how semi independence
> > is working out. Hey, things are never so bad they couldn’t be worse.
> >
> > *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> > *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 1:25 PM
> > *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun, kinda lenty
> >
> > The issue of whether you can break away peacefully from the USA was
> > settled in 1865 (spoiler alert, you can't). But if history repeats
> > itself then CHAZ will be ignored until they decide not to pay taxes or
> > some similar obviously illegal thing.
> >
> > People tolerated the Freemen in Montana until they started writing fake
> > checks.
> >
> > Do we remember the "Principality of Sealand"? They were like, "We're a
> > country". UK is like, "No you're not." Then their platform was boarded
> > by mercenaries and they were like, "Send the police!" and UK is like, "I
> > thought you lads were a country?"
> >
> > On 6/15/2020 2:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
>  wrote:
> >
> > image
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[Steve Jones]

Can you imagine the awesome shit some script kiddie could spell out with
10k dots in the sky

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:51 PM castarritt .  wrote:

> I suppose the most interesting failure mode would be a vulnerability that
> allows a hacker to make all the birds maneuver and crash into each other.
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:46 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Combine with the probability that collisions are going to be with birds
>> with 90-180 degree relative vectors. Sats going in the same relative
>> direction should "never" collide (he says optimistically). That means the
>> combined velocities are going to go down pretty quickly (quicker de-orbit).
>> Not so optimistically, they probably won't be direct hits, but more likely
>> glancing blows.
>>
>> I expect something is going to happen in the next 5-10 years, and we will
>> learn at least one failure mode.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/15/2020 12:50 PM, castarritt . wrote:
>>
>> A low orbit bird isn't going to get smacked from behind, so it would be
>> reasonable to assume that the vast majority if not all of the debris will
>> lose velocity instead of gaining it.  Also, small chunks of satellite
>> should have a lower ballistic coefficient than an intact satellite (mass
>> reduced by cube of size vs surface area reduced by square), so they should
>> experience greater decceleration from atmospheric drag.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:42 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> When things collide they will go many different directions and
>>> velocities, there is no calculation for when that will be cleared, or even
>>> where the debris even is
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:36 PM Robert Andrews 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 So was my thoughts about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does
 it clear itself out in 5 years?

 On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
 > A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.
 The
 > design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in
 that
 > when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag
 but
 > uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.
 ~5
 > years at 550km without looking it up.
 >
 > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince >>> > > wrote:
 >
 > SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the
 satellites will
 > be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with
 the
 > lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps
 > where
 > the 10 year number came from.
 >
 >
 > bp
 > 
 >
 > On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 >  > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
 >  >
 >  > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
 >  >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years
 > from drag.
 >  >>
 >  >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett
 > mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
 >  >> >>
 wrote:
 >  >>
 >  >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
 > would do
 >  >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
 >  >>
 >  >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
 > exactly as
 >  >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
 > sunspot and
 >  >> just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low
 > failure
 >  >> rate over many years could eventually leave a whole
 crapload
 > of them
 >  >> buzzing around up there.
 >  >>
 >  >> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all
 that.
 >  >> Haven't they?
 >  >>
 >  >>
 >  >> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
 >  >>>
 >  >>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first
 "accident".
 >  >>> Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad
 > enough, it
 >  >>> could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish
 all the
 >  >>> orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation
 plan.
 > To some
 >  >>> extent they are structuring their constellation to
 de-orbit
 >  >>> quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically
 designed to
 >  >>> de-orbit on their own at end of life.
 >  >>>
 >  >>>
 >  >>> bp
 >  >>> 
 >  >>>
 >  >>> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
 >   That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they
 wanted first
 >   chance at some space x bandwidth.
 >  
 >  

Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Ken Hohhof]

For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues 
like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine 
discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, 
and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff.

 

I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if 
that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something 
totally different and many people are not going to support something that 
sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies.  
Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of 
their responsibilities to other agencies.  But he said I was wrong, without 
really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he meant we can call it what we 
want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative.  Or maybe he really does 
want to disband the police.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of justsumname .
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

 

is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally 
bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

[Robert]

Supposed to be a DDoS attack going on.

On 6/15/20 3:25 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Cellular outages all over the place...
Chuck?



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Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

[Ken Hohhof]

Is it this?

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21292024/t-mobile-verizon-att-calls-failing-down-phone-networks-us-carriers

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 7:40 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

 

Supposed to be a DDoS attack going on.

On 6/15/20 3:25 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Cellular outages all over the place... 

Chuck? 





 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

[TJ Trout]

if you think it's ddos you might need to get off of facebook :)

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:52 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Is it this?
>
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21292024/t-mobile-verizon-att-calls-failing-down-phone-networks-us-carriers
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 7:40 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?
>
>
>
> Supposed to be a DDoS attack going on.
>
> On 6/15/20 3:25 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> Cellular outages all over the place...
>
> Chuck?
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

[Tim Reichhart]

 dont you all think whats happening with protesting maybe thats what the issue 
is at? because I am in rural ohio not having one bit of issues at all with 
verizon


-Original Message-
From: "TJ Trout" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Date: 06/15/20 08:55
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

if you think it's ddos you might need to get off of facebook :)
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:52 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:


Is it this?

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21292024/t-mobile-verizon-att-calls-failing-down-phone-networks-us-carriers

 

 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 7:40 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?


 

Supposed to be a DDoS attack going on.

On 6/15/20 3:25 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


Cellular outages all over the place...

Chuck? 






 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

[Ken Hohhof]

So it’s conspiracy theorists setting fire to 5G towers?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Tim Reichhart
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 8:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

 

 

 dont you all think whats happening with protesting maybe thats what the issue 
is at? because I am in rural ohio not having one bit of issues at all with 
verizon

 


  _  


-Original Message-
From: "TJ Trout" mailto:t...@voltbb.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Date: 06/15/20 08:55
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

if you think it's ddos you might need to get off of facebook :)

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:52 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Is it this?

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21292024/t-mobile-verizon-att-calls-failing-down-phone-networks-us-carriers

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Robert
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 7:40 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

Supposed to be a DDoS attack going on.

On 6/15/20 3:25 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Cellular outages all over the place...

Chuck?

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

[Robert]

Well I just called my sprint phone from the verizon phone and then 
called the verizon phone from the sprint phone and no worries...


On 6/15/20 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


So it’s conspiracy theorists setting fire to 5G towers?

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Tim Reichhart
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 8:02 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

 dont you all think whats happening with protesting maybe thats what 
the issue is at? because I am in rural ohio not having one bit of 
issues at all with verizon




-Original Message-
From: "TJ Trout" mailto:t...@voltbb.com>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Date: 06/15/20 08:55
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

if you think it's ddos you might need to get off of facebook :)

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:52 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Is it this?


https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21292024/t-mobile-verizon-att-calls-failing-down-phone-networks-us-carriers

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of* Robert
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 7:40 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

Supposed to be a DDoS attack going on.

On 6/15/20 3:25 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Cellular outages all over the place...

Chuck?

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Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

[Jaime Solorza]

Not saying it's Aliens but it's Aliens

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 7:51 PM Robert  wrote:

> Well I just called my sprint phone from the verizon phone and then called
> the verizon phone from the sprint phone and no worries...
>
> On 6/15/20 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> So it’s conspiracy theorists setting fire to 5G towers?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Tim Reichhart
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 8:02 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?
>
>
>
>
>
>  dont you all think whats happening with protesting maybe thats what the
> issue is at? because I am in rural ohio not having one bit of issues at all
> with verizon
>
>
>
> --
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "TJ Trout" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Date: 06/15/20 08:55
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?
>
> if you think it's ddos you might need to get off of facebook :)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:52 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Is it this?
>
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21292024/t-mobile-verizon-att-calls-failing-down-phone-networks-us-carriers
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of* Robert
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 7:40 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?
>
> Supposed to be a DDoS attack going on.
>
> On 6/15/20 3:25 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> Cellular outages all over the place...
>
> Chuck?
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Look up the city of Sunnyvale, California. They abolished their
  police department in 1950 and created what they call a public
  safety department. They still have patrol cars, but the officers
  do triple duty as police, firefighters, and EMT. They did this in
  1950, so it's been working very well for ~~ 70 years.
We used to live in Sunnyvale until about 1996. Great town, and
  great public safety department. Saves the city a ton of money.


bp



On 6/15/2020 5:37 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
For many people, that seems to mean stop
  funding the police to deal with issues like mental health,
  homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine
  discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to
  fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and
  robberies and stuff.
 
I had a discussion with someone who is all
  for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the
  term really sucks, because it conveys something totally
  different and many people are not going to support something
  that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles
  murders and robberies.  Rather than saying reform the police,
  or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities
  to other agencies.  But he said I was wrong, without really
  explaining why I was wrong.  I think he meant we can call it
  what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative. 
  Or maybe he really does want to disband the police.
 
 

  From: AF
 On Behalf Of justsumname
.
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

 

  is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or
are things really going totally bathshitcrazy ?!?   
 "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.
  
 
  
  
---
  

  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Steve Jones]

the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there
isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the
criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of
counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools
is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without
resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a
hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill,
and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon.
They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They
consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone
who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in
without one.
Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything
illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they
would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a
plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that
question without skipping a beat.
Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their
conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison
system right quick.
Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put
into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age
out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.

defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an
antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with
> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors,
> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund
> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff.
>
>
>
> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I
> said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys
> something totally different and many people are not going to support
> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles
> murders and robberies.  Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow
> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies.  But
> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he
> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
> provocative.  Or maybe he really does want to disband the police.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
>
>
>
> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally
> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.
>
>
>
> ---
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the
  police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar
  MRAPs.


bp



On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  the problem is the defund the police folks dont
understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for
maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things.
taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors
doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools
is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids
out without resource officers. Mental health still will need
police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have
arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the
counselor having to fight the loon. 
They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete
  non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a
  mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest
  do its job would never let somebody else go in without one.
Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making
  everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally
  example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he
  wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you
  thousands of young black men who can answer that question
  without skipping a beat.
Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually
  work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less
  burdened court and prison system right quick.
Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot
  of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that
  cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced
  because the cells are empty.


defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and
  giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
  
  
  
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38
  PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:


  

  For many people, that seems to mean
stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental
health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors,
routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use
that money to fund specialists, and let the police
handle murders and robberies and stuff.
   
  I had a discussion with someone who
is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what
they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys
something totally different and many people are not
going to support something that sounds like disband the
police and then nobody handles murders and robberies. 
Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their
focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other
agencies.  But he said I was wrong, without really
explaining why I was wrong.  I think he meant we can
call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
provocative.  Or maybe he really does want to disband
the police.
   
   
  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of justsumname .
  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
  
   
  
is it just the 'news' that I'm
  reading or are things really going totally
  bathshitcrazy ?!?     "de-fund the police"  is
  just ONE thing.

   


  ---

  

  
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Steve Jones]

you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal?

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police.
> Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics.
> there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for
> the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of
> counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools
> is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without
> resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a
> hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill,
> and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon.
> They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They
> consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone
> who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in
> without one.
> Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything
> illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
> stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they
> would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a
> plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that
> question without skipping a beat.
> Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their
> conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison
> system right quick.
> Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put
> into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age
> out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.
>
> defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an
> antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with
>> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors,
>> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund
>> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I
>> said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys
>> something totally different and many people are not going to support
>> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles
>> murders and robberies.  Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow
>> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies.  But
>> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he
>> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
>> provocative.  Or maybe he really does want to disband the police.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
>>
>>
>>
>> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally
>> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that
  place sometime around 1967.

bp



On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal?
  
  
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33
  PM Bill Prince  wrote:


  
I think one of the things they want to do is
  de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no
  business buying million dollar MRAPs.


bp



On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:


  the problem is the defund the police folks
dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it
is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal
side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch
of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops.
Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the
other 99 percent will pull their kids out without
resource officers. Mental health still will need police,
they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have
arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want
jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. 
They want to disarm the police. thats a big no,
  complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof
  vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who
  has actually had a vest do its job would never let
  somebody else go in without one.
Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop
  making everything illegal, and you immediately have
  less criminals
stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an
  ally example I wish they would recognize. The media
  says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I
  can find you thousands of young black men who can
  answer that question without skipping a beat.
Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs
  actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet
  you see a less burdened court and prison system right
  quick.
Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a
  whole lot of dough to put into those other programs,
  and over time that cost goes down as guards age out
  and dont need to be replaced because the cells are
  empty.


defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus
  and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
  
  
  
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020
  at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:


  

  For many people, that seems
to mean stop funding the police to deal with
issues like mental health, homelessness,
domestic disputes, street vendors, routine
discipline in schools, etc., and instead use
that money to fund specialists, and let the
police handle murders and robberies and stuff.
   
  I had a discussion with
someone who is all for defund the police and I
said if that’s what they mean, the term really
sucks, because it conveys something totally
different and many people are not going to
support something that sounds like disband the
police and then nobody handles murders and
robberies.  Rather than saying reform the
police, or narrow their focus, or move some of
their responsibilities to other agencies.  But
he said I was wrong, without really explaining
why I was wrong.  I think he meant we can call
it what we want to, who cares if it’s
unnecessarily provocative.  Or maybe he really
does want to disband the police.
   
   
  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of justsumname .
  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Chuck McCown]

They need to figure out how to teach restraint.  I am for them to have the 
tools they need.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 15, 2020, at 8:33 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> 
> I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local 
> podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs.
> 
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there 
>> isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the 
>> criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of 
>> counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools 
>> is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without 
>> resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a 
>> hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, 
>> and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. 
>> They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They 
>> consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone 
>> who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in 
>> without one.
>> Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, 
>> and you immediately have less criminals
>> stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they 
>> would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a 
>> plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that 
>> question without skipping a beat.
>> Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their 
>> conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison 
>> system right quick.
>> Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put 
>> into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age 
>> out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.
>> 
>> defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an 
>> antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with 
>>> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, 
>>> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund 
>>> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said 
>>> if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys 
>>> something totally different and many people are not going to support 
>>> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles 
>>> murders and robberies.  Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow 
>>> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies.  But 
>>> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he 
>>> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily 
>>> provocative.  Or maybe he really does want to disband the police.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of justsumname .
>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally 
>>> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Ken Hohhof]

When did they start having cops in schools?  Never once in my K-12 days did I 
see a policeman in my school.  I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did.  
Maybe I led a privileged life.

 

College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to 
writing parking tickets.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

 

Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime 
around 1967.

bp

 

On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal?

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local 
podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs.

 

bp

 

On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there 
isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal 
side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt 
lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, 
the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental 
health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they 
dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the 
counselor having to fight the loon.  

They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They 
consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who 
has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without 
one.

Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, 
and you immediately have less criminals

stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would 
recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can 
find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without 
skipping a beat.

Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their 
conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system 
right quick.

Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into 
those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and 
dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.

 

defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic 
(its the wrong treatment)

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues 
like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine 
discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, 
and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff.

 

I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if 
that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something 
totally different and many people are not going to support something that 
sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies.  
Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of 
their responsibilities to other agencies.  But he said I was wrong, without 
really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he meant we can call it what we 
want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative.  Or maybe he really does 
want to disband the police.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of justsumname .
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

 

is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally 
bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.

 

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AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Steve Jones]

need to bust the union, and somehow incentivise turning in dirty cops
instead of making doing the right thing out to be the worst possible thing
a cop can do. I never understood the thin blue line between good and evil
protecting the evil side out of "brotherhood". National protocols with
regional cutouts like EMS would help too.
I know a couple people who were innocent that have done prison time because
of dirty cops. One took a plea because of overcharging (white daughter
didnt want daddy to know shed been diddling the non caucasion). SA/DAs
knowing cops fabricated evidence to get the guy "off the streets" cause if
he didnt do this particular crime, he did something burns me up. Look what
happens when these guys finally get caught, thousands of cases have to be
reviewed, and sometimes guilty folks have to be released.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:58 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> They need to figure out how to teach restraint.  I am for them to have the
> tools they need.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 15, 2020, at 8:33 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police.
> Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics.
> there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for
> the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of
> counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools
> is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without
> resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a
> hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill,
> and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon.
> They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They
> consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone
> who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in
> without one.
> Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything
> illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
> stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they
> would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a
> plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that
> question without skipping a beat.
> Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their
> conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison
> system right quick.
> Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put
> into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age
> out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.
>
> defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an
> antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with
>> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors,
>> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund
>> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I
>> said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys
>> something totally different and many people are not going to support
>> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles
>> murders and robberies.  Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow
>> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies.  But
>> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he
>> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
>> provocative.  Or maybe he really does want to disband the police.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
>>
>>
>>
>> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally
>> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Steve Jones]

it started around here maybe 9 or 10 years ago. Bigger areas before that.
Resource officers tend to be problematic officers, departments who
dont have a desk job will put them in schools, thats problematic too.

Teachers cant make physical contact with students anymore, so things like
breaking up a hall fight can result in custodial battery charges, so it
requires a short response LEO. a lot of school shootings have been stopped
by resource officers.

My kid made a school shooting joke with a buddy and got overheard. it went
viral. Came into talk to the principal and it was going to be a warning. I
asked for the resource officer to be brought in to discuss it. This
particular officer was good and drove home the seriousness of jokes like
that in todays world, so there are many positives of their presence,

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:11 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> When did they start having cops in schools?  Never once in my K-12 days
> did I see a policeman in my school.  I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever
> did.  Maybe I led a privileged life.
>
>
>
> College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated
> to writing parking tickets.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
>
>
>
> Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place
> sometime around 1967.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police.
> Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics.
> there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for
> the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of
> counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools
> is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without
> resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a
> hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill,
> and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon.
>
> They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They
> consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone
> who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in
> without one.
>
> Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything
> illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
>
> stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they
> would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a
> plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that
> question without skipping a beat.
>
> Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their
> conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison
> system right quick.
>
> Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put
> into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age
> out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.
>
>
>
> defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an
> antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with
> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors,
> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund
> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff.
>
>
>
> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I
> said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys
> something totally different and many people are not going to support
> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles
> murders and robberies.  Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow
> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies.  But
> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he
> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
> provocative.  Or maybe he really does want to disband the police.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
>
>
>
> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally
> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Robert]

I grew up in Sunnyvale  It was/is? a town that really was run by the 
people.   People got pissed about waiting at stop lights in traffic way 
back in the mid 70's and they passed a city ordinance that the lights on 
all major throughfares had to be synced for throughput!   It was great!  
Drive the speed limit and just cruise.   Traffic got to dense for it to 
be non-stop in the 90's but software control improved as well as the 
planning s/w and it's still the easiest town to drive through in the 
valley IMNSHO...   Left the valley in 98...  I would get in trouble now 
for saying why...


On 6/15/20 7:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


Look up the city of Sunnyvale, California. They abolished their police 
department in 1950 and created what they call a public safety 
department. They still have patrol cars, but the officers do triple 
duty as police, firefighters, and EMT. They did this in 1950, so it's 
been working very well for ~~ 70 years.


We used to live in Sunnyvale until about 1996. Great town, and great 
public safety department. Saves the city a ton of money.



bp


On 6/15/2020 5:37 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal 
with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, 
street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use 
that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and 
robberies and stuff.


I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and 
I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it 
conveys something totally different and many people are not going to 
support something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody 
handles murders and robberies.  Rather than saying reform the police, 
or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to 
other agencies.  But he said I was wrong, without really explaining 
why I was wrong.  I think he meant we can call it what we want to, 
who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative.  Or maybe he really does 
want to disband the police.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going 
totally bathshitcrazy ?!?  "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.


---






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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Robert]

But do they need to spend money on surplus Army equipment?  Do they 
really need to get the army's ma deuces?  Do they need 5x the number of 
m-16's that they have employees for?  Do they need 2.5 million rounds of 
ammo for the m-16's? maybe they are getting it on the cheep but it's 
still $$...


On 6/15/20 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. 
there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police 
presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying 
for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing 
police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will 
pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still 
will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont 
have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the 
counselor having to fight the loon.
They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. 
They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of 
intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would 
never let somebody else go in without one.
Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything 
illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish 
they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he 
take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can 
answer that question without skipping a beat.
Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for 
their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and 
prison system right quick.
Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to 
put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as 
guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.


defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an 
antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)


On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to
deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic
disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and
instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police
handle murders and robberies and stuff.

I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police
and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks,
because it conveys something totally different and many people are
not going to support something that sounds like disband the police
and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying
reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their
responsibilities to other agencies.  But he said I was wrong,
without really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he meant we
can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
provocative.  Or maybe he really does want to disband the police.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going
totally bathshitcrazy ?!?     "de-fund the police"  is just
ONE thing.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Steve Jones]

yes. The tower in texas, the father and son bankrobbers are two of the
incidents that led to that. last year in new jersey. Criminals have serious
firepower. Non criminals even more. Every day there are new laws going on
the books that make criminals out of more non criminals. Its no different
than us still maintaining the 1 ventilator per minute output even though we
know we dont need them. once youve seen what happens when
youre underprepared, you over prepare.
If anything the media says about the "boogaloo boys" is true (its not), you
definetly want the law to have the armaments, because a huge percentage of
national guard are talking about the big luau

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:29 PM Robert  wrote:

> But do they need to spend money on surplus Army equipment?  Do they really
> need to get the army's ma deuces?  Do they need 5x the number of m-16's
> that they have employees for?  Do they need 2.5 million rounds of ammo for
> the m-16's? maybe they are getting it on the cheep but it's still $$...
>
> On 6/15/20 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics.
> there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for
> the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of
> counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools
> is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without
> resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a
> hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill,
> and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon.
> They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They
> consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone
> who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in
> without one.
> Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything
> illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
> stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they
> would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a
> plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that
> question without skipping a beat.
> Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their
> conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison
> system right quick.
> Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put
> into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age
> out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.
>
> defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an
> antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with
>> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors,
>> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund
>> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I
>> said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys
>> something totally different and many people are not going to support
>> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles
>> murders and robberies.  Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow
>> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies.  But
>> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he
>> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
>> provocative.  Or maybe he really does want to disband the police.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
>>
>>
>>
>> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally
>> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

[Ken Hohhof]

Not great branding when the obvious nickname is “boogers”.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 10:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

 

yes. The tower in texas, the father and son bankrobbers are two of the 
incidents that led to that. last year in new jersey. Criminals have serious 
firepower. Non criminals even more. Every day there are new laws going on the 
books that make criminals out of more non criminals. Its no different than us 
still maintaining the 1 ventilator per minute output even though we know we 
dont need them. once youve seen what happens when youre underprepared, you over 
prepare.

If anything the media says about the "boogaloo boys" is true (its not), you 
definetly want the law to have the armaments, because a huge percentage of 
national guard are talking about the big luau 

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:29 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

But do they need to spend money on surplus Army equipment?  Do they really need 
to get the army's ma deuces?  Do they need 5x the number of m-16's that they 
have employees for?  Do they need 2.5 million rounds of ammo for the m-16's? 
maybe they are getting it on the cheep but it's still $$...

On 6/15/20 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there 
isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal 
side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt 
lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, 
the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental 
health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they 
dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the 
counselor having to fight the loon.  

They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They 
consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who 
has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without 
one.

Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, 
and you immediately have less criminals

stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would 
recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can 
find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without 
skipping a beat.

Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their 
conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system 
right quick.

Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into 
those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and 
dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.

 

defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic 
(its the wrong treatment)

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues 
like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine 
discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, 
and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff.

 

I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if 
that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something 
totally different and many people are not going to support something that 
sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies.  
Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of 
their responsibilities to other agencies.  But he said I was wrong, without 
really explaining why I was wrong.  I think he meant we can call it what we 
want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative.  Or maybe he really does 
want to disband the police.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of justsumname .
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy

 

is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally 
bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"  is just ONE thing.

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?

[TJ Trout]

not sure what the outage cause is but ddos it is not, it's been debunked as
many influential people (senators, etc ) were spreading misinformation,
which of course is on par for social media. Just so strange to me that  no
one fact checks things these days before spreading misinformation.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:17 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Not saying it's Aliens but it's Aliens
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 7:51 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> Well I just called my sprint phone from the verizon phone and then called
>> the verizon phone from the sprint phone and no worries...
>>
>> On 6/15/20 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> So it’s conspiracy theorists setting fire to 5G towers?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Tim Reichhart
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 8:02 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  dont you all think whats happening with protesting maybe thats what the
>> issue is at? because I am in rural ohio not having one bit of issues at all
>> with verizon
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "TJ Trout" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Date: 06/15/20 08:55
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?
>>
>> if you think it's ddos you might need to get off of facebook :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:52 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Is it this?
>>
>>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21292024/t-mobile-verizon-att-calls-failing-down-phone-networks-us-carriers
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of* Robert
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 7:40 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ok which one of you cut the fiber backbone?
>>
>> Supposed to be a DDoS attack going on.
>>
>> On 6/15/20 3:25 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>
>> Cellular outages all over the place...
>>
>> Chuck?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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