Re: [9fans] recent plan9.iso on hosted kvm/qemu
On 3/3/2011 9:20 AM, Stanley Lieber wrote: The --no-kvm-irqchip option on the command line may have solved the problem. This apparently did not work with my host's setup. Same results observed when I halted and rebooted this VPS this morning. The host reports they are running KVM/qemu on Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04. I'm in the process of setting up a Linux machine so I can try to reproduce/solve the problem locally. -sl Hello, I'm one of the other people trying to get plan 9 on the same VPS host provider. I've gotten past that hang. Some haphazard print statements narrowed the hang down to the e820 init function in memory.c. So to work around, setting either *noe820scan=1 or *norealmode=1 in plan9.ini will allow you to boot in that VPS without the aforementioned hang. What the actual problem is, I don't know. I'm fast approaching the end of my abilities, so you'll have to pick it up from there. I'll know tomorrow how my install goes. I do know where exactly it does hang, but it's my bedtime. I'll have to drawterm into my cpu server and check my notes again to post where exactly the boot hung. Cheers, Jack
Re: [9fans] recent plan9.iso on hosted kvm/qemu
On 3/6/2011 8:09 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: Hello, I'm one of the other people trying to get plan 9 on the same VPS host provider. I've gotten past that hang. Some haphazard print statements narrowed the hang down to the e820 init function in memory.c. So to work around, setting either *noe820scan=1 or *norealmode=1 in plan9.ini will allow you to boot in that VPS without the aforementioned hang. What the actual problem is, I don't know. I'm fast approaching the end of my abilities, so you'll have to pick it up from there. I'll know tomorrow how my install goes. I do know where exactly it does hang, but it's my bedtime. I'll have to drawterm into my cpu server and check my notes again to post where exactly the boot hung. have you tried the 9load from 9atom? i moved the e820 scan to before 9load switches from real mode, which should be safer. ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/^(9pxeload 9load) - erik I hadn't tried it. I was under the impression that 9atom was tried by the OP of this thread. My plan today is to go through with the install and see what happens. I'll try your 9load next to see if I can boot sans excess options. The support guy set up a cron job to update the floppy image from me, so I can try lots of different stuff (provided it fits in 1.44MB). Thanks, Jack
Re: [9fans] pcie for inter machine comms
On 7/6/2011 4:06 AM, Steve Simon wrote: Any of the HPC guys who read this list know of anyone using pcie with a non-transparent bridge to send data between hosts as a very fast, very local network? I seem to remember IBM did somthing like this with back-to-back DMAs in RS6000 in the early 1990s, but does anyone do it now? or do we feel that UDP over 40gE is fast enough for anything anyone needs (at present)? -Steve It's funny, it's as if you have the exact opposite vision as I have. One of my " aha!" moments messing with Plan 9 was the thought that generic consumer physical layer networks are the "backplane" of hardware expansion in Plan 9. This is how I've since viewed Plan 9 and inferno. In fact my first thought was " damn, well now I don't need all of this pci[e] crap -- just a NIC". Ever since then I have been in the development stages of some 9p devices using microcontrollers of various capabilities. I had my arduino getting almost all the way with negotiating a styx session over ethernet (no auth). Then I got married. :) in due time I will get there. I've dropped the arduino though, moving on to bigger and better things. I know this has nothing to do with your question, but I just wanted to share a point of view. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.
On 7/29/2011 3:34 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: We had an x10fs for a serial cm11. Might be even in sources. I tried to get into x10 stuff about a year ago but I got the impression that it was obsoleted by infineon and others... Do they still make/sell the cm11? I only have the USB box that also takes wireless commands. It is useless unless you run the crappy windows software. Any electronics guys know of a work-a-like open source hardware implementation of the cm11? I've got all these x10 modules laying around.... -Jack
Re: [9fans] p9 vhost?
On 2012-10-22 04:40, Balwinder S Dheeman wrote: On 10/22/2012 03:19 AM, Don Bailey wrote: Has any progress been made on using plan9 as a virtual machine host? Yes, the xen9 kernel as mentioned on the http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/installing_in_xen_3.0/ page worked fine here under xen 4.0 and 4.1 as well. That'd be a virtual machine *guest* you're describing there. The answer for plan9 as a vm host is still 'no.' Please post this, however, in the thread concerning the use of plan9 under Xen4. The OP sure would be interested in your usage under Xen4. -Jack
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 6:49 PM, wrote: > I found this a couple months ago and showed it to Ron, tried to get a > quote or some info on buying them but nobody even replied to my email. > Can you even get them in China? Are they even being produced? There's some reseller in the U.K., I think. Let me see if I can dig it up. -Jack
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Jack Johnson wrote: > There's some reseller in the U.K., I think. Let me see if I can dig it up. Whoops, wrong country: http://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61504599/Categories/%22Lemote%20product%22 -Jack
Re: [9fans] GSOC: Drawterm for the iPhone
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Uriel wrote: > How many people can actually claim that they will for certain use such > iphone drawterm? Because the idea of using rio or acme from a > touchscreen doesn't seem very practical to me (to put it very mildly). Is there a similar project that would be more useful for the device? Inferno plug-in for Safari? Work backwards. What (new) would you do if someone else did the hard bit, and now what does that hard bit look like? -Jack
Re: [9fans] Rails? (was Re: web server)
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Pietro Gagliardi wrote: > Is Rails even necessary? If all you have is an object, everything looks like a method. ;) -J
Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:34 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > the problem i have with "literate programming" is that it > tends to treat code like a terse and difficult-to-understand > footnote. And thus, we have literate programming meets APL. ;) -Jack
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > Is anyone using it for such things? Some of us either do different things day-to-day or have found workarounds or alternatives to the way people usually enjoy the Internet and their attached computers. Without (or until) a change of mindset, it's likely that the easiest way to keep one foot on land and the other in the pool is to run Plan 9 in a virtual machine or to run plan9port on top of your regular OS. Best of luck, -Jack
Re: [9fans] plan 9 interface color ergonomy
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Jason Catena wrote: > Rob explains the fonts and colors (inspired by Tufte, no less) a bit > in this reposted message, and mentions Renee French. I wonder if Renee would be interested to know this particular color palette is an ongoing point of discussion? -Jack
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 2:10 PM, wrote: > Which model of USB audio? Is it something available on Amazon? Looks like this might be the new version of the Turtle Beach Audio Advantage: http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Advantage-Micro-Sound-Card/dp/B0002ICGDY Hopefully it works as well. -Jack -- Forwarded message -- From: Sape Mullender Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] More USB audio To: knapj...@gmail.com, 9f...@cse.psu.edu Cc: j...@plan9.bell-labs.com, p...@plan9.bell-labs.com > http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/audioadvantage/ We got one ath the labs. Plugged it into Plan 9. It works. It actually outputs a lot of oomph into my headset. Nice device. 44100 or 48000 Hz, 16-bit stereo. Has mute & volume control. Sape
Re: [9fans] dcp - a deep copy script, better than dircp
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 2:41 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > on coraid's worm, a find on main takes not too long: > > minooka; cd /n/ila > minooka; time rc -c 'find . | wc' > 356164 356164 13987863 > 1.24u 1.38s 6.65r rc -c find . | wc The FAQ also mentions: du -a . | grep foo Just out of curiosity, how does find vs du compare for you? -Jack
Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support
If I'm reading you right, you're saying it might be easier if everything were encoded as combining (or maybe more aptly non-combining) codes, regardless of language? So, we might encode 'Waffles' as w+upper a f f l e s and let the renderer (if there is one) handle the presentation of the case shift and the potential ligature, but things like grep get noticeably easier with no overlap of ő and o+umlaut. Again, oversimplified, with no real understanding on my part of the depth or breadth of the problem space. If this is the case, could it be handled by pushing everything into a subset of unicode rather than use the unallocated space to create a superset? -J On 7/26/09, erik quanstrom wrote: >> to be fair to the unicode people, this decoupling of glyphs and codepoints >> is (i think) the most straightforward way to implement some languages like >> arabic, where the glyphs for characters depend on their position within a >> word. that is, a letter at the beginning of a word looks different from >> what it would look like if it was in the middle. > > my opinion (not that i'm entitled to one here) is > that the unicode guys screwed up. unicode is not > consistant. explain why there are two code points sigma. > 03c3 greek small letter sigma > 03c2 greek small letter final sigma > why does german get ä, ö, ü? if you want to take > this further, why are there capital forms of latin letters? > can't that also be inferred by the font? > > what's called a ligature in one language is a character > in another. i see no consistency. it seems like the > unicode committee had a problem with too much > knowledge of the specific problems and few actual > unifying (sorry) concepts. > > i think it would make much more sense to put this logic > in editors. this would also allow the freedom to use a > capital, ligature, final form in the wrong place. > like say studlyCaps. i can't imagine english is the only > language in the world that gets abused. > > - erik > > -- Sent from my mobile device
Re: [9fans] nice quote
Brian L. Stuart wrote: Just getting something to happen might be training, but it sure isn't education. Thats the best one-liner I have ever heard on the subject. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS
erik quanstrom wrote: *with*, not *on* right? with. it's an appliance. Now, the information above is quite useful, yet my question was more along the lines of -- if one was to build such a box using Plan 9 as the software -- would it be: 1. feasible 2. have any advantages over Linux + JFS aoe is block storage so i guess i don't know how to answer. - erik I think what he means is: You are given an inordinate amount of harddrives and some computers to house them. If plan9 is your only software, how would it be configured overall, given that it has to perform as well, or better. Or put another way: your boss wants you to compete with backblaze using only plan9 and (let's say) a _large_ budget. Go! -Jack
Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS
erik quanstrom wrote: I think what he means is: You are given an inordinate amount of harddrives and some computers to house them. If plan9 is your only software, how would it be configured overall, given that it has to perform as well, or better. Or put another way: your boss wants you to compete with backblaze using only plan9 and (let's say) a _large_ budget. Go! forgive me for thinking in ruts ... i wouldn't ask the question just like that. the original plan 9 fileserver had a practically-infinite storage system. it was a jukebox. the jukebox ran some firmware that wasn't plan 9. (in fact the fileserver itself wasn't running plan 9.) today, jukeboxes are still ideal in some ways, but they're too expensive. i personally think you can replace the juke with a set of aoe shelves. you can treat the shelves as if they were jukebox platters. add as necessary. this gives you an solid, redundant foundation. for a naive first implementation targeting plan 9 clients, i would probablly start with ken's fs. for coraid's modest requirements (10e2 users 10e2 terminals 10e1 cpu servers 10e2 mb/s), i built this http://www.quanstro.net/plan9/disklessfs.pdf i don't see any fundamental reasons why it would not scale up to petabytes. i would put work into enabling multiple cpus. i would imagine it wouldn't be hard to saturate 2x10gbe with such a setup. of course, there is no reason one would need to limit oneself to a single file server, other than simplicity. of course this is all a bunch of hand waving without any money or specific requirements. - erik Erik, I read the paper you wrote and I have some (probably naive) questions: The section #6 labeled "core improvements" seems to suggest that the fileserver is basically using the CPU/fileserver hybrid kernel (both major changes are quoted as coming from the CPU kernel). Is this just a one-off adjustment made by yourself, or have these changes been made permanent? Also, about the coraid AoE unit: am I correct in assuming that it does some sort of RAID functionality, and then presents the resulting device(s) as an AoE device (and nothing more)? Also, another probably dumb question: did the the fileserver machine use the AoE device as a kenfs volume or a fossil(+venti)? The reason I am asking all of this is because I have a linux fileserver machine that _just_ serves up storage, and I have a atom based machine not doing anything at the moment (with gbE). I would love to have the linux machine present its goods as an AoE device and have the atom based machine play the fileserver role. That would be fun. Thanks in advance for patience involving my questions :) -Jack
Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS
erik quanstrom wrote: Also, another probably dumb question: did the the fileserver machine use the AoE device as a kenfs volume or a fossil(+venti)? s/did/does/. the fileserver is running today. the fileserver provides the network with regular 9p fileserver with three attach points (main, dump, other) accessable via il/ip. from a client's view of the 9p messages, fossil, fossil+venti and ken's fs would be difficult to distinguish. - erik Very cool. So what about having venti on an AoE device, and fossil on a local drive (say an ssd even)? How would you handle (or: how would venti handle), a resize of the AoE device? Let's say you add more active drives to the RAID pool on the AoE machine (which on a linux fileserver would then involve resizing partition on block device, followed by growing the volume groups if using lvm, followed by growing the filesystem). Sorry for thinking out loud... I should get back to work anyway fun thread though. -Jack
Re: [9fans] nice quote
Abhishek Kulkarni wrote: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Russ Cox <mailto:r...@swtch.com>> wrote: > anyone written any software recently? i did. http://9fans.net/archive/ Thanks. I like the new interface. It makes searching through the archives a lot easier. I do still kinda sometimes prefer the threaded view that Google Groups offers when reading archived threads. (Google Groups archives seem broken off late and do not include older threads in the archive) It would be cool to have "next in thread" and "prev in thread" pointers to jump around between topics in the same thread. What might be cool is to have an entire year, or an entire months worth of messages downloadable in mbox or similar format. Then you could use your mail reader to view (which consequently may be able to give you that threaded view). -Jack
Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS
erik quanstrom wrote: So what about having venti on an AoE device, and fossil on a local drive (say an ssd even)? sure. we keep the cache on the coraid sr1521 as well. How would you handle (or: how would venti handle), a resize of the AoE device? that would depend on the device structure of ken's fs. as long as you don't use the pseudo-worm device, it wouldn't care. the worm would simply grow. if you use the pseudo-worm device (f), changing the size of the device would fail since the written bitmap is at a fixed offset from the end of the device. and if you try to read an unwritten block, the f panics the file server. i stopped using the f device. - erik I am going to try my hands at beating a dead horse:) So when you create a Venti volume, it basically writes '0's' to all the blocks of the underlying device right? If I put a venti volume on a AoE device which is a linux raid5, using normal desktop sata drives, what are my chances of a successful completion of the venti formating (let's say 1TB raw size)? Have you ever encountered such problems, or are you using more robust hardware? I ask because I have in the past, failed a somewhat-used sata drive while creating a venti volume (it subsequently created i/o errors on every os I used on it, although it limped along). I must say it is quite a brutal process, creating venti (at least I get that impression from the times I have done it in the past). If linux is my raid controller, I know that it is _very_ picky about how long a drive takes to respond and will fail a drive if it has to wait too long. By the way I am currently buying a few pieces of cheap hardware to implement my own diskless fileserver. Should be ready to go in about a couple of weeks. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS
Russ Cox wrote: On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Jack Norton wrote: So when you create a Venti volume, it basically writes '0's' to all the blocks of the underlying device right? In case anyone decides to try the experiment, venti hasn't done this for a few years. Better to try with dd. Russ By a 'few years' do you mean >=2.5 yrs, because thats the last time I had a venti setup. I had to stop using plan 9 for a while so that I could graduate on time (that thesis wasn't going to write itself apparently). All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. -Jack
Re: [9fans] fun quote
erik quanstrom wrote: i don't know how ingo managed to put his finger on so many reasons i enjoy plan 9 by counterexample. Linux is a 18+ years old kernel, there's not that many easy projects left in it anymore :-/ Core kernel features that look basic and which are not in Linux yet often turn out to be not that simple. -- Ingo Molnar - erik Now, Plan 9's kernel is pretty old too, isn't it? If Plan9 had become a bit more widely accepted, even as late as, let's say, 2002, do you think it would have become an unruly and frighteningly complicated beast as linux has? What has saved other 'popular' kernels from this? For instance, no body ever complains about FreeBSD being a complex cluster f***, but it has pretty wide adoption (even as a 'desktop'). What about OS X? Has Apple's arrogance and secrecy saved it from open source development? It seems like they release code only after they are damn sure they've gotten all they can out of it. So, is Linux the unwanted poster-child of open source development? I think an argument could be made. -Jack
Re: [9fans] fun quote
erik quanstrom wrote: Now, Plan 9's kernel is pretty old too, isn't it? that's the point. age is a red herring. What has saved other 'popular' kernels from this? For instance, no body ever complains about FreeBSD being a complex cluster, but it has pretty wide adoption (even as a 'desktop'). What about OS X? Has Apple's arrogance and secrecy saved it from open source development? It seems like they release code only after they are damn sure they've gotten all they can out of it. so you're saying that osx is not complicated? - erik No, no, it is, what I mean is that I haven't heard similar sentiments towards the open source released by Apple. Apple's 'open source' is software that is developed in a closed source fashion, then released as open source when the time is right, as opposed to Linux and related software, which are developed, almost from the ground up, as open source. This is the impression I get anyway. -Jack
Re: [9fans] "Blocks" in C
David Leimbach wrote: On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Charles Forsyth mailto:fors...@terzarima.net>> wrote: we'd have been much better off if Apple had instead spent the time and effort writing a decent iTunes, or opening their platform interfaces enough that someone else could do it (and on Linux, not just Mac or Windows). What's your gripe on iTunes? I've had a few issues with it, but it does seem to get the job done somehow. Honestly just curious. I'd like to jump in on this. I hate iTunes with a passion. It is a huge monolithic godlike creature that tries to do everything for me (usually when I don't want it to). It brings my 12" powerbook to a screeching halt (I get beach balled to death), and it doesn't natively support many audio/video codecs/containers (and isn't that easily extended, which brings up quicktime ). Then again, I grew up using winamp, and I absolutely love the old style winamp. No bloody database, no crazy multi-tiered file browser, and no video player. Just select a song(s) and play. Itunes is not a media player, it is a platform in and of itself. It is the emacs of media players (in that it is all encompassing, there is a church/cult, etc...). Just about the simplest way to play audio on a computer, save for the methods in plan9 :) (I'm _trying_ to get us back on topic...) Ok I'm done. -Jack
Re: [9fans] linux stats in last year from linuxcon
ron minnich wrote: 2.7M lines last year 10K lines added a day. 5K lines deleted per day. I keep thinking this can't be sustained. What happens next? At the same time, well, as pointed out, we all use it all the time. I'm sending this from gmail. Or you can use Linux by googling these stats :-) ron Here is a little related tidbit: http://lwn.net/Articles/222773/ It shows employer/company vs. changed lines/contributions etc... I think this has as much to do with the state of the linux kernel as the overall design and ideal therein. It defines the 'new' open source. I don't think something this large can benifit anymore from open source (as in open 'all the time' to anyone, everywhere -- as opposed to let's say apple's version of open source dev). The development scheme just doesn't scale. In any event, I'm still waiting for the damn thing to fork... -Jack
Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS
erik quanstrom wrote: i think the lesson here is don't by cheep drives; if you have enterprise drives at 1e-15 error rate, the fail rate will be 0.8%. of course if you don't have a raid, the fail rate is 100%. if that's not acceptable, then use raid 6. Hopefully Raid 6 or zfs's raidz2 works well enough with cheap drives! don't hope. do the calculations. or simulate it. this is a pain in the neck as it's a function of ber, mtbf, rebuild window and number of drives. i found that not having a hot spare can increase your chances of a double failure by an order of magnitude. the birthday paradox never ceases to amaze. - erik While we are on the topic: How many RAID cards have we failed lately? I ask because I am about to hit a fork in the road with my work-a-like of your diskless fs. I was originally going to use linux soft raid and vblade, but I am considering using some raid cards that just so happen to be included in the piece of hardware I will be getting soon... At work, we recently had a massive failure of our RAID array. After much brown noseing, I come to find that after many harddrives being shipped to our IT guy and him scratching his head, it was in fact the RAID card itself that had failed (which takes out the whole array, plus can take out any new drives you throw at it apparently). So I ask you all this (especially those in the 'biz): all this redundancy on the drive side, why no redundancy of controller cards (or should I say, the driver infrastructure needed)? It is appealing to me to try and get some plan 9 supported raid card and have plan 9 throughout (like the coraid setup as far as I can tell), but this little issue bothers me. Speaking of birthday, I mentioned to our IT dep (all two people...) that they should try and spread out the drives used among different mfg dates and batches. It shocked me to know that this was news to them... -Jack
Re: [9fans] linux stats in last year from linuxcon
Richard Uhtenwoldt wrote: J.R. Mauro writes: Another thing they won't consider is having separate versions for high-end servers and PCs. I don't understand why Torvalds thinks Linux has to be all things to all people. the Linux running on a high-end server is probably compiled from the same (evolving over time) source tree as the Linux running on a desktop. but cannot the same be said of Windows now that most desktops run Windows XP or a later version of Windows? cannot the same be said of OS X? Richard Uhtenwoldt http://sonic.net/~sielskr The big topic for me is the realtime patch (the one mentioned at rt.wiki.kernel.org). I dabble in computer based audio, and this patch is mandatory for low latency audio. There is a big debate as to why this isn't pushed into the main kernel source and/or forked in the name of such things. All I will say is that on OSX I can use jack daemon and get low latency audio right out of the box and on windows I can use low latency drivers such as ASIO and the newer WaveRT. It's even more tragic as there are tons of great linux audio tools, but they are a hard sale because you need to apply the rt-patch (which for a musician is like performing open heart surgery). In the end I don't care what the linux devs do, but they need to come up with a game plan and either fork (server, desktop linux) or include it all and try and make everyone happy (the latter will end in chaos me thinks). What I just described is the number one topic that brings up the 'fork linux' debate (at least it's the one I always pay attention to). Speaking of realtime, I am trying my hardest to port some of our custom control applications that we use around my engineering lab to inferno (anyone doing something similar? inferno list is not exactly a popular place apparently). Right now I spit out a python script on the fly for everything (quick turnaround) and it's getting old (plus I want to be able to control anything in the lab from any machine in the lab -- i.e. a perfect place for some inferno installs) -jack
Re: [9fans] acme without a heavy grid (SFW)
Jason Catena wrote: A quick edit frees acme from its "heavy grid prison", a la Tufte. https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/502901/acmenogrid.jpg Jason Catena How about no grid whatsoever (while you're at it)? There is plenty of contrast there to forego any kind of hard devisions. However, I end up with the same conclusion: why? Is the 'grid' that distracting? Also, if you have two text files open side-by-side, and your lines are long enough to wrap, you would have a glob of incomprehensible text in the middle. I think at least a moderately thick grid is a necessary evil. -jack
[9fans] Plan 9 Xen -- Follow up on previous 9fans topic
Hello, I would like to know if the fellow below (Andreas Erikson), ever tried to compile plan 9 xen3 sources against xen 3.2.x (or 3.[2-4].x for that matter). I am going to try that this weekend, and if he started to patch some code, I would appreciate the head start. >From: Richard Miller <9f...@ham...> Subject: Running Plan 9 on Xen 3.2 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:57:25 +0100 >> From: Andreas Eriksen >> Does this mean Plan 9 is not compatible with Xen 3.2, or does it just >> need a recompile or some other quick fix? >It's compatible with Xen 3.0.x for some x. I haven't checked how much the Xen API has changed for 3.2 -- do try recompiling and see what happens! > of the source files are no longer >world readable Sorry, my fault. Fixed now. -- Richard -Jack
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 & VirtualBox
Jacob Todd wrote: On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 04:28:20PM -0700, Sam'l B wrote: Is anyone working on making them play nice together? Is it possible, even? I get slightly farther with VirtualBox on Vista Home Basic than on Fedora 11, but then things come to a complete halt. Sam'l B. (User, not Programmer) Plan 9 works fine in qemu on both windows (xp at least) and linux. I will vouch for plan 9 working in qemu in windows 7 rc. There is even a nice qemu gui that gives you a virtualbox-like experience (I forget the name -- could it be kqemu?). -Jack
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 & VirtualBox
Antonio Hernández Blas wrote: On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Jack Norton wrote: Jacob Todd wrote: On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 04:28:20PM -0700, Sam'l B wrote: Is anyone working on making them play nice together? Is it possible, even? I get slightly farther with VirtualBox on Vista Home Basic than on Fedora 11, but then things come to a complete halt. Sam'l B. (User, not Programmer) Plan 9 works fine in qemu on both windows (xp at least) and linux. I will vouch for plan 9 working in qemu in windows 7 rc. There is even a nice qemu gui that gives you a virtualbox-like experience (I forget the name -- could it be kqemu?). -Jack Maybe you´are talking about "Qemu Manager" (http://www.davereyn.co.uk/about.htm). Yes! Thats the one. Fantastic front end to qemu. I am obviously not infront of my pc, or else I would have just ran the app and reported the name. So thats qemu, and qemu manager that work with windows 7 rc. -Jack
Re: [9fans] parallel systems
Sam Watkins wrote: I think my main points were good. * can parallelize by duplicating subsystems / divide and conquer * can parallelize by pipelining, even down to the arithmetic level * latency is limited by Ahmdal's law, potential throughput should not be * multi-tasking can potentially use close to the full power of a system A factory is a parallel system. A car factory can come close to fully utilizing thousands of human and robot workers. I think well-designed parallel systems can efficiently solve many laborious computing problems. Invocations of Ahmdal have not convinced me otherwise. Sam I would say a factory is heavily pipelined. Although if the jobs aren't big enough, the workers are underutilized. The mediators (supervisors) that keep said workers efficiently running are paid more than the workers, and it can be deduced that their job is more critical overall. Hmm what does that say about parallel computer systems? Maybe you should have a shop foreman design a parallel system. I thought I would respond as I work at a small company and we build all our parts in our factory. I regularly deal with such parallel system latencies... also, one more thought: near 100% factory utilization only occurs when the assembly steps (pipeline) and division of assembly (divide and conquer) is tailored for the exact product (task/instruction/process) to be made. There is no such thing as a 100% utilized general purpose factory. At least not from what I have seen. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Scanners
Peter A. Cejchan wrote: No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server. The scanner use smbclient. i repeat: i do not wish to have anything to do with windoze os, nor with smb and other bullshit. sorry for such a rude wording... windoze annoyed me along with other proprietary sw 20+ yrs i do share all my outcome publicly... yes, i'm not a millionaire (and my outcome is humble, YES), but several people already acknowledged my work... BTW, if you read up to this point, i would design a book scanner in an other way, especially, no parallel (to scanning lamp) covering glass, but, rather, a roof-like glass construction *( to avoid book damage) and a mirror + sw to convert it to rectangular page just my two cents ;-) sry if it's offending, but i'd like to see an open specification for any , be it desktop, scanner. BTW, i consider supporting ONLY windoze a violation of a free business contest law, IMHO sry 1 more, i just wted 2 know anybody uses a scnr on NATIVE p9 ++pac I checked out the image access site, and it looks like you can scan to FTP, email (built in MTA?), along with the smb method. I actually think thats pretty nice. What on earth is free business contest law (FBCL I suppose)? Does that mean if I only make parts for Ford motor cars, and I completely ignore GM, and also the vast league of Kit Car DIY'ers, I am evil? I like the book scanner idea though, you should jump on that. Much more elegant in my opinion to the 'book open, face up' with camera's from afar method. -Jack
Re: [9fans] evoluent mouse review
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:20 PM, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > i just did. acme isn't seeing any mouse clicks from a macbook's > trackpad. i'll take a look and report in more detail in a bit. I'll have to give that a try. It seems acme + trackpad isn't always fun, but my brain loves a trackpad for some reason. I keep thinking I want one of these for a desktop machine, but I'd still probably need a mouse hanging around, too: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-45849.html Plus, Mac 2-finger scrolling has ruined me. -Jack
Re: [9fans] more little hardware
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:54 AM, wrote: >> http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/qi-hardwares-tiny-hackable-ben-nanonote-now-shipping/ > > Okay, Maht. You just cost me $125 :) I just couldn't resist. I was wondering how you'd network one of those things: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_in_Nanonote -Jack
Re: [9fans] more little hardware
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Jack Johnson wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:54 AM, wrote: >>> http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/qi-hardwares-tiny-hackable-ben-nanonote-now-shipping/ >> >> Okay, Maht. You just cost me $125 :) I just couldn't resist. > > I was wondering how you'd network one of those things: > > http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_in_Nanonote Off-topic-ish, that 320x240 screen is probably the biggest challenge, trying to find some usable UI in that space. I think the idea of a native Inferno port is great. Anyone doing anything fun on the UI side with the Nintendo DS port? It also looks like Android on this thing might be a possibility: http://www.laptopmag.net/3837-google-android-port-for-xburst-cpus-on-its-way.html ...so drawterm for Android might also be a worthwhile direction. -Jack
Re: [9fans] more little hardware
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Jack Johnson wrote: > Off-topic-ish, that 320x240 screen is probably the biggest challenge, > trying to find some usable UI in that space. I think the idea of a > native Inferno port is great. Sorry, last of the blather. It also seems ideal for Octopus: http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/ls/octopus.html -Jack
Re: [9fans] more little hardware
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Stuart Morrow wrote: > However, there is one "smart" feature that for me would be useful enough that > carrying a big chunky thing that lives for a quarter of a day on battery might > actually be worth it, and the feature is so damn trivial to do with Plan 9 - > setting/unsetting the ring tone to/from silent in a cron job. I would like my ringtone volume to adjust periodically to the ambient noise, which also seems fairly trivial. What did you folks with bitsies and iPAQs find useful? Any of you still packing one? -Jack
Re: [9fans] more little hardware
Thanks to Google's targeted ads: http://www.eglobalwireless.com/p-4333-new-7-mini-netbook-laptop-notebook-wifi-windows-2gb-hd.aspx Also might make a good Inferno device if WinCE isn't too firmly ensconced. -Jack
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 5:54 AM, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > try as you might, the irony is unescapable (see the attached "helpful" > suggestion by google). It sounds like a competition. "Write a program that, when translated by Google into Czech, still produces valid output." -Jack
Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote: > Read up on why Plan 9 was written. We've been succeeding for 20 years so > far. I think this is an interesting comment in light of the evolution thread. Most people (incorrectly) equate evolution with progress. Whether or not other more popular OSes are evidence of progress, it's interesting to consider the idea of success. The millipede has been around with relatively few upgrades for the past 420 billion years or so. It would be hard to call it unsuccessful, even though it can't (yet?) effectively run, jump, or fly. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Jack Johnson wrote: > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote: > around with relatively few upgrades for the past 420 billion years or s/billion/million/ -Jack
Re: [9fans] tinycore 9vx .tce on sources
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:52 PM, ron minnich wrote: > --rw-r--r-- M 26 rminnich sys8805 Apr 3 17:41 > /n/sources/contrib/rminnich/9vx.tce > Wild. I've been screwing around with a tinycore terminal server in a couple of VMs and I was planning on building a TCE for 9vx after this weekend's Easter festivities. Thanks! Maybe I should procrastinate more often -Jack
Re: [9fans] smtpd in modern times.
I'm not running one (at the moment), but I think there's an stunnel port for Plan 9, and that could be an easy way to duct tape TLS support onto your existing setup. -Jack On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 2:29 PM Steve Simon wrote: > I have been running my a smtp server on plan9 for about > 10 years but I beleive I am having more and more incomming > mail bounce because of plan9's lack of support for tls 1.2. > > What is anyone else doing about this? > > stop ovvering ESMTP in smptd? > > Using a 3rd party smtpd supplier (google?) > > Does 9front support tls1.2 now? > > use facebook instead of email (joke). > > Other... > > -Steve (hoping replies don't bounce) > >
[9fans] bugs in test command
I updated my system today and had trouble with the usbfat:, 9fat:, and pull scripts because of errors by the new test command. term% ls /dev/kfs.cmd ls: /dev/kfs.cmd: '/dev/kfs.cmd' file does not exist term% test -f /dev/kfs.cmd term% echo $status term% Thank you.
Re: [9fans] sad commentary
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:20 AM, Uriel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That means that Plan 9 is like porn for hackers. > Now when can I get that on a t-shirt? :) -J
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Blue Gene
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:10 AM, ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In the HPC world, there is lots of conservatism. There is an editor at > LANL, named Fred, written in Fortran, that has been in use for longer > than most of you have been alive. Until very recently, it was a > required part of any HPC system. Any guesses as to just how old Fred is? Or better yet, when is Fred's birthday? It seems like there should be a Ratfor to C translator in Plan 9, if only for nostalgia. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Time travel
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Make that "Get off of my Wifi!" Those crazy kids with their Hulu loops. -J
[9fans] Amazon EC2?
Has anyone tried injecting a Plan 9 instance into the new Amazon cloud? http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/ -Jack
Re: [9fans] Amazon EC2?
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Roman V. Shaposhnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Amazon prescreen the kernel that you can use there, but! > As was suggested by Richard Miller, if Plan9 can be > a target of kexec -- the sky is the limit. I thought I read they were using Xen? What's the relationship between kexec and Xen? -Jack
Re: [9fans] An Observation
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Eric Van Hensbergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There are those that say too many cooks spoil the broth. > > This isn't our problem. > > Our problem is that we have a kitchen full of food critics attempting > to direct the cooks. Is it good or bad that we keep eating at the same restaurant, despite the criticism? -Jack
Re: [9fans] An Observation
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:46 AM, David Leimbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dang, in a pinch I'll even eat at McDonalds... I think I booted McOS this morning -J
Re: [9fans] plan9 now officially not the OS with the ugliest GUI anymore
I always thought 8 1/2, rio, acme and friends were more, uh, Amish UIs than ugly UIs, but to each his or her own. -J
Re: [9fans] Gmail and upas
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 5:43 AM, Rudolf Sykora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > seems you use IMAP to read gmail. I usually read my gmail mail through > my web browser, which is not a problem from opera/firefox in linux. > However, I can't do the same from plan9. Neither abaco, nor charon > work. Is this so for everyone or just for me? Thanks. I remember looking into the problem with charon in the past using my feeble skills, so I just took another peek using: charon -dbg dnop -docookies 1 -doscripts 1 -usessl v3 -starturl 'http://mail.google.com/mail/h' -dbgfile gmail.out and based on the URL left in the address bar and the debug log, it looks like it fails somewhere around the last continue parameter from the last redirect. Authentication seems to be working; I can use iGoogle but not Gmail. There are some intermittent errors about SSL to ssl.google-analytics.com, but I don't think these are critical. One of the last requests seem to return a chunk of Javascript that does browser detection: https://mail.google.com/mail?view=page&name=browser&ver=1k96igf4806cy I tried some of the tricks found around the net to turn off browser detection with no success. I did find that the URL redirects seem to behave differently if I don't enable Javascript, but then it fails very strangely at the end with what appears to be an invalid request. The last valid request is: https://www.google.com/accounts/CheckCookie?continue=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.google.com%2Fmail%2Fh%2F19sso9tatmt7r%2F%3Fui%3Dhtml%26zy%3Dl&service=mail
Re: [9fans] Gmail and upas
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Jack Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > and then it follows up with: > > GO TO > https://www.google.com/accounts/'http:/mail.google.com/mail/h/19sso9tatmt7r/?ui=html&zy=l' > > which doesn't seem to match the continue parameter from the last request. I just disabled Javascript on Safari and tried http:/mail.google.com/mail/h and eventually I get a URL like the above with a *very* long auth parameter appended to the end, and then a usr parameter with my email address. -J
Re: [9fans] (off-topic) Renée French
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Eris Discordia wrote: > How come the Renée French who appears in Jim Jarmusch's "Coffee and > Cigarettes" has nothing to with the Renée French who drew Glenda? Interesting movie. Parts of it I dearly love, other parts not so much. A lot like Night on Earth, where some sections were painful to sit through but Benigni's chapter is just a jewel of film. -J
Re: [9fans] jjm
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 7:38 AM, Bruce Ellis wrote: > found object ... > > http://www.chunder.com/text/struggle.html Absolutely priceless. The last line is the winner. -J
[9fans] FOIA request?
This is interesting: *"Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, I hereby request the following records:* *Records, emails, memos and reports relating to or mentioning the operating system Plan 9 from Bell Labs"* https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/foia-cia-plan-9-from-bell-labs-82547/ ??? Other than LANL, any idea what they might be fishing for? -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T6f0461c12ad85976-Mfef7b82021b15264f239fc26 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
Anyone know if this project went anywhere? https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf A Hellaphone revisit. On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 12:48 PM sirjofri wrote: > Hello, > > many many really cool ideas. Most of them get a big heart icon, but I > don't want to repeat your ideas. So consider this one large heart for all > of them ♥️. > > My annotations are inline. > > 01.02.2021 08:16:58 cigar562hfsp952f...@icebubble.org: > > (2) A Zoom/video conferencing application for Plan 9. Enough said. :) > > Afaik someone on grid wanted to try some voice chat stuff using mq, > maybe. Could be helpful. > > > (a) An Android "app" that presents an Android phone's telephone and SMS > > messaging facilities as a 9P filesystem. This would enable Plan 9 > > and Inferno applications to place/receive voice calls and > > send/receive text messages across a network. This could be done by > > extending bhgv's existing Android port of Inferno, or as a > > separtate, stand-alone server app. > > Also hellaphone might be interesting (maybe just for comparison). Afaik > they removed the whole java stuff from android and replaced it with dis. > They were able to do phone calls and I think they got rudimentary text > messages working, too, but both directly on the phone using inferno. > > A native 9p interface for Android might also be a nice project. Android > supports adding new protocols like ftp or smb to its native filesystem > pool. I don't know the details. > > I also have some other project ideas like many, like a native Android > gridchat client, but that's too specific, I think. I'll play around with > these when I'm done studying. > > sirjofri -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T39aec8f3f9d8503d-Ma1c5487c03fdc3bf7b6bbbfb Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] TeX: hurrah!
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Patrick Kelly wrote: > Object-Orientation reduces static provability. True (or true enough)? Not to engender a flame war, but my gut says there must be some Eiffel, Smalltalk, and LISP folk out there who are big on provability, but I can imagine that there's a case out there for saying not all OO implementations are the same. Is this a Gödel question? How do you prove OO reduces static provability? I'm totally OK with a "true enough" response like the measured complexity introduced makes it more problematic to determine static provability (as I talk out my ass). -Jack
Re: [9fans] Mars Needs Women (was Re: TeX: hurrah!)
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:41 PM, wrote: > Polluting Plan 9 with fashionable toys isn't going to save the > world, isn't even going to be useful to the existing Plan 9 community, > so why do you believe it should happen, rather than allow Plan 9 as it > exists, both as a philosophy and as the implementation of this > philosophy, to demonstrate that a simpler lifestyle is also > sufficient? The image this brought to mind was Buddhism. Would Buddhism be better if it were infused with Evangelism? Doubtful. The next time I say, "Not to engender a flame war," please kick me off the list, please. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Mars Needs Women (was Re: TeX: hurrah!)
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:29 PM, wrote: > very little new is being created, but rather many old things are being > "improved" upon (regurgitated) in manners that consume more and more > computing cycles and deliver less and less performance. I think this is an important observation. When I saw Rob's presentation on concurrency and message passing in Newsqueak, the meat of the message that stuck in my brain was hey, there are easier ways to do a lot of the stuff we're already doing. When you look at the infrastructure to provide D-Bus vs what D-Bus actually does, there is a huge opportunity cost to implement D-Bus if that infrastructure does not already exist. Conversely, if you wanted to implement its features from scratch on, let's say, a non-UNIXlike system with no GCC port, why on earth would anyone import the infrastructure just for that service? The shared infrastructure of the GCC-bound OSes do provide certain heritage and growth benefits to those systems at certain costs. I think the Plan 9 community is one of the few development communities that questions the costs of suggested growth. It has always struck me a more deliberate act of change rather than an adaptation to change, and the pace that it provides also has its own costs and benefits. Do I like EFL? Absolutely. Are there EFL concepts and techniques that Plan 9 could benefit from? Probably. Do we need to import the infrastructure to import EFL to benefit from that mindshare? Probably not. I'm naively hoping Go will eventually take us to some future middle ground where folks can dabble in a shared sandbox of sanity from both sides of the fence. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Mars Needs Women (was Re: TeX: hurrah!)
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Federico G. Benavento wrote: > p2c (pascal 2 c) Anyone ever peek at one of the Oberon to C compliers? Or maybe the Oxford stuff? http://spivey.oriel.ox.ac.uk/corner/Oxford_Oberon-2_compiler -Jack
Re: [9fans] license situation and OSI
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Charles Forsyth wrote: >>You don't get to change the license > > ``3. REQUIREMENTS > A. Distributor may choose to distribute the Program in any form under > this Agreement or under its own license agreement, provided that: > ... > c. if distributed under Distributor's own license agreement, such > license agreement: > ... [conditions placed on an alternative licence, including spelling > out the differences] > '' I've always thought this was an entertaining perspective on licensing. Really there are just two kinds of licenses: ones that allow relicensing and ones that don't. Kinda puts MS and EFF in the same camp. -Jack
Re: [9fans] license situation and OSI
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Nick LaForge wrote: >>Kinda puts MS and EFF in the same camp. > > You mean FSF? Whoops, yes, FSF. -Jack
Re: [9fans] license situation and OSI
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Corey wrote: > No doubt - MS and FSF are clearly in the same camp. Allies even! Heck, > one might even go so far as to venture the notion that they're practically > bedfellows. I'm just noting that usually licensing is looked at as a continuum of commercial vs free, and rarely as restrictive vs non-restrictive (or heck, complex vs simple), and occasionally it's useful to consider the other dimensions and how the particular perspective of each unique beast affects the conversation and analysis. So, for me, it's intriguing that in both the scenario where you want to retain complete IP control over your code and the scenario where you hope to ensure complete IP public longevity, the best defense seems to be restrictive licensing. But, from the perspective where you have public code and want to garner mindshare, there are a multitude of facets that affect that choice, and having a multiplicity of licensing options may improve the fecundity/fidelity/longevity of said code in more complex ways than can be readily surmised from the previous perspective. -Jack (continuing to contribute nothing to the good of the order)
Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: > FTS, I'm interesting in getting Go here because I'm going to write > the i.e. window system (successor of o/live, o/mero, ...) also in go, to run > at least the viewer native on unix systems. The C version is still cooking. Is there an overview/paper/etc. for i.e?
Re: [9fans] Small Plan9 box suggestions.
Jason Dreisbach wrote: Hi all, Can anyone help shed some light in my search for a "low power" minimal plan 9 hardware setup to start experimenting with. Has anyone had success running plan 9 on a Fit PC (the only atom box we have access to)? Gumstix would be ideal, but their plan 9 support is a bit half baked right now. Wireless support would be a huge plus. We are trying to do a bit of research into robotic applications of plan 9. The p9 filesystem protocol seems like a real neat method to acquire resources of nearby "bots". Allowing for very minimal, modularized robot configurations. Any tips? Am I out of my mind? Thanks, Jason Jason, I am currently attempting a little ROV using some 9p for control, but I am using inferno hosted on linux. That might be the quicker way to get your 'bots speaking 9p. I am doing this because right off the bat I need a webcam. I also need to prototype this very quickly so mucking about in hardware drivers and OS nuances is not an option. Sounds like fun! I'm curious what you come up with! -Jack
Re: [9fans] Small Plan9 box suggestions.
Jacob Todd wrote: Does inferno have support for (a) webcam(s)? Or are you using linux for capturing things from the webcam? On Feb 25, 2011 9:14 AM, "Jack Norton" <mailto:j...@0x6a.com>> wrote: > Jason Dreisbach wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Can anyone help shed some light in my search for a "low power" minimal >> plan 9 hardware setup to start experimenting with. Has anyone had >> success running plan 9 on a Fit PC (the only atom box we have access to)? >> >> Gumstix would be ideal, but their plan 9 support is a bit half baked >> right now. Wireless support would be a huge plus. >> >> We are trying to do a bit of research into robotic applications of plan >> 9. The p9 filesystem protocol seems like a real neat method to acquire >> resources of nearby "bots". Allowing for very minimal, modularized robot >> configurations. >> >> Any tips? Am I out of my mind? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason > > Jason, > > I am currently attempting a little ROV using some 9p for control, but I > am using inferno hosted on linux. That might be the quicker way to get > your 'bots speaking 9p. I am doing this because right off the bat I > need a webcam. I also need to prototype this very quickly so mucking > about in hardware drivers and OS nuances is not an option. > Sounds like fun! I'm curious what you come up with! > > -Jack > It's a USB webcam (logitech POS is the model I believe :) ). Right now I am leaving the webcam for last, so right now linux is providing the drivers and I am watching it 'quick and dirty' with a seperate xawtv window. The webcam is my last step because it really is just outside the reach of my personal programing capabilities (I'm a physicist -- god help you if I ever have to write code for you...). In all reality I may get as far as an ugly hack involving some host multimedia converters and file2chan, but that is optimistic at best right now. Once the concept is limping along, I can then really attempt a native webcam of some sort. In any event I've got the impression that inferno could be really cool in a robotics environment, hence the motivation. -Jack
Re: [9fans] recent plan9.iso on hosted kvm/qemu
Stanley Lieber wrote: On Sun Mar 6 22:33:33 EST 2011, stanley.lie...@gmail.com wrote: 9atom's 9load prints "%d e820 entries" on boot. is that number 0? found 7 e8s0 entries Then it freezes. it's not the e820 code, then. it's either falling over initializing the console, or it's falling over probing devices for the .ini file. after e820, 9load starts up the console and probes devices looking for a .ini file. i would think the odds are good that 9load has found an i/o port that should not be touched. devices are probed in this order floppy. ether, cd, sd. i don't really have a kvm setup, but if it's possible, you might try removing devices (espeically ethernet devices) from a copy of 9load until you find something that boots, then add 'em back in till it doesn't. sounds tedious, no? :-) I'm perfectly willing. Two main problems at this point: - I don't have immediate access to amd64 hardware to setup my own KVM/qemu. I learned the hard way that KVM inside another qemu or VMware guest doesn't work. - Changing out the CD-ROM image on the hosted VPS requires sending an e-mail to technical support and waiting up to 24 hours for a response. I've been told allowing users to dynamically change CD-ROM images is not an option. Jack: If you reading this, do you want to try this with your cron-swapped floppy images? -sl I would be willing, definitely. However, I am committed to finishing the setup of a cpu/auth server in the VPS right now (I've got it installed, just need to find time to make the migration from terminal to cpu/auth -- probably lunch break today). I want to reach the milestone of serving a page over http (which is the primary purpose of this VPS in the first place). Once that is done, I can bring it down and start playing around with 9loads and kernels loaded on my floppy image. Also, see about setting up the floppy cron job on your vps. If anything, having a floppy there makes things so much easier to quickly play with a new kernel. No need to master a new install cd and have them waste all that bandwidth. Also, I noticed that the "probing plan9.ini" step in the loader looks at the floppy first even if booting off the hd. Since I couldn't remove the floppy all together, I have my install's plan9.ini merged into the plan9.ini of the floppy. Just a minor annoyance I had no idea existed :). Although it is a great little feature to rescue the system if I bork my plan9.ini... Also, I really need to thank fgb as he gave me a little tip on irc about his modified 9load that allows you to pass new plan9.ini variables at boot. I got disconnected before I could acknowledge. I haven't tried it yet, but it could be useful. -Jack
Re: [9fans] recent plan9.iso on hosted kvm/qemu
erik quanstrom wrote: On Sun Mar 6 22:33:33 EST 2011, stanley.lie...@gmail.com wrote: 9atom's 9load prints "%d e820 entries" on boot. is that number 0? found 7 e8s0 entries Then it freezes. it's not the e820 code, then. it's either falling over initializing the console, or it's falling over probing devices for the .ini file. after e820, 9load starts up the console and probes devices looking for a .ini file. i would think the odds are good that 9load has found an i/o port that should not be touched. devices are probed in this order floppy. ether, cd, sd. i don't really have a kvm setup, but if it's possible, you might try removing devices (espeically ethernet devices) from a copy of 9load until you find something that boots, then add 'em back in till it doesn't. sounds tedious, no? :-) - erik Well I've got some other observations of interest. As I mentioned, I installed with *noe820scan=1 successfully. I was in the middle of configuring and playing around when I realized I had no ethernet car. bind -a '#l' /dev returned 'no free devices'. The vps has an e1000 card (PRO/1000) plugged into it, so I naively put "ether0=type=igbe" in plan9.ini. Now it hangs right where 9load would normally say "no ethernet devices found" or something similar. How odd. -Jack
Re: [9fans] off list - Re: recent plan9.iso on hosted kvm/qemu
Stanley Lieber wrote: On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Jack Norton wrote: erik quanstrom wrote: On Sun Mar 6 22:33:33 EST 2011, stanley.lie...@gmail.com wrote: 9atom's 9load prints "%d e820 entries" on boot. is that number 0? found 7 e8s0 entries Then it freezes. it's not the e820 code, then. it's either falling over initializing the console, or it's falling over probing devices for the .ini file. after e820, 9load starts up the console and probes devices looking for a .ini file. i would think the odds are good that 9load has found an i/o port that should not be touched. devices are probed in this order floppy. ether, cd, sd. i don't really have a kvm setup, but if it's possible, you might try removing devices (espeically ethernet devices) from a copy of 9load until you find something that boots, then add 'em back in till it doesn't. sounds tedious, no? :-) - erik Well I've got some other observations of interest. As I mentioned, I installed with *noe820scan=1 successfully. I was in the middle of configuring and playing around when I realized I had no ethernet car. bind -a '#l' /dev returned 'no free devices'. The vps has an e1000 card (PRO/1000) plugged into it, so I naively put "ether0=type=igbe" in plan9.ini. Now it hangs right where 9load would normally say "no ethernet devices found" or something similar. How odd. -Jack Sorry if this is a duplicate, but I'm not sure my earlier private e-mail to you went through. Do you happen to know who the support staff member is that setup your cron job? The people in #arpnetworks are not being helpful, and Garry seems unaware of what you've setup. I'd like to run through some tests myself but I haven't been able to scrounge up amd64 hardware to setup my own Ubuntu Jaunty server. Thanks, -sl No problem. I am in contact with Garry Dolley at Arp networks. I don't have his actual email as it is masked by their support mailer. From what I can tell, he is only active late in the day and in the evening (I'm on central time in the US btw). He seems eager to help and doesn't mind that I send him numerous emails all day long... The latest on my side is I've asked for a rtl8139 card instead of the e1000 (this is mainly motivated by my own qemu setup, which uses the rtl8139 and works lovely). I'm also not interested in setting up their exact kvm setup (partly because I don't want to deal with this libvirt business -- looks like a hellish nightmare). In the mean time I am loading a floppy today with 9load from eric and 9atom kernel. I won't have time to recompile or play with 9load until later this evening (if that) so I don't think I'll have much else to report until tomorrow. -Jack
Re: [9fans] recent plan9.iso on hosted kvm/qemu
Stanley Lieber wrote: I'm installed. -sl Great to hear! Last night I successfully set up a cpu/auth in the vps and even fired up httpd and started serving http (and I could drawterm to it without issue). I didn't have an ip issue (however I did chase my tail due to a misconfigured /cfg/.../cpurc). However.. I broke something bad. Well, I don't think *I* did it but something is wrong. I can no longer boot my VPS at all. As in, the VNC is refusing connections (which means the VPS doesn't even begin to boot -- which means it isn't my fault... probably). I have no confirmation that the VPS is running at all as the management console isn't connecting either... So I don't know what happened but hopefully they can work it out. I was just about to try to boot without *norealmode=1 now that the 8139 NIC was in place. I'd like to boot this thing without all those workarounds (though it runs great -- well ran great...). All in all, I think they've got a working setup for Plan 9 hosting. So my current troubles aside, this is big news. -Jack
Re: [9fans] slightly on topic: pic preprocessor for drawing electronic circuits
maht wrote: On 15/03/2011 22:07, Bruce Ellis wrote: Sounds cool. I'm using AVRs in the jeep fit out for the expedition. Anyone else here playing with these chips? yes, I have STK-500 dev kit & a pile of chips I have a little runtime Forth-like for writing code Is this a runtime that you wrote? Sounds interesting. You don't do any of this dev on Plan 9 do you? I've got a pile of atmega168's and a icsp flasher board + some flasher made by olimex. I've just been using avr-gcc. Haven't touched it in a while though. -Jack
Re: [9fans] namespaces, Alef
faif wrote: Some questions that came up while reading the first paper (Plan 9 from Bell Labs): a) It seems that the potential of namespaces can be exposed only when using a distributed environment with multiple machines (CPU servers, file servers, terminals, etc.). Can I get a feeling about what a namespace is in practice if I only own a single system installed on a virtual machine? You are forgetting about per-process namespaces. For instance, when you run httpd, a custom namespace gets constructed that is unique to it. Typically '/usr/web' gets bound to / in the namespace of httpd (among other things). Also certain things *don't* get bound too. Why would httpd need to access eia0? Don't put it in the namespace. The very point of all of this capability is that it is completely transparent to all things being on one machine, or on 20 machines. b) I know that Limbo is mostly used in Inferno, but is Alef or Limbo used in any parts of the native Plan 9? According to wikipedia (http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alef_%28programming_language%29) the Alef parts were rewritten in C. I'm pretty sure there is no Alef left in the latest. There is no Limbo either. I could be wrong. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames
errno wrote:
Starting Goal: a modern, standards compliant web engine library for Plan 9
No!
Has anyone tried out Gwene? Basically you "sign up" an RSS feed and it
presents it as an NNTP news feed that you can access via news.gwene.org.
Now, this is what I like. Take some core sites and resources ("all
useful features" port of the web) and use the sites API, write a
"translator" to present the content as news, or plain text (files served
via a fs) where applicable.
If I had time and the stomach to deal with website "API's" and content
formating, I would do just that.
I'd claim that most sites these days lend well to being translated as
NNTP news feeds. Most sites are people 'posting' crap and thoughts on
said crap at regular intervals.
Some useful staples like wikipedia could get their own fs (wikipediafs?
-- that's a mouthful...).
Fun but frivolous stuff like reddit could be presented as NNTP as well.
If done right, there could be one NNTP server like Gwene that we could
all use -- or you could roll your own for at home. And of course it
doesn't need to be nntp. I just figured it could be used by people on
OS's they get stuck with at work that don't speak 9p :)
For newly discovered sites that you'd like to visit when curiosity gets
the best of you -- you've got abaco or something under linuxemu.
I say modify the web for plan9, not plan9 for the web.
Frankly I'd be more interested in a video player (just a few common
codecs that's all) than a modern web browser.
-Jack
Re: [9fans] freedom (was Re: Compiling 9atom kernel)
errno wrote: So, what to do? The Web: Reject it? (aka "go buy a tablet" ) Reproduce it? (aka "have you looked at webfs?" ) Reuse it? (aka "port webkit") There's no possible way that I'm the only one who has envisioned some rendition of the following science-fiction: * a Plan 9-based platform targeted at the general consumer market ... * Stuff * I don't want google and facebook and flicker et. al. owning my data; I don't want to make intel and dell rich with their overpowered machines and processors so I can run ever-bloating os and software; I don't want to maintain a collection of various ad-hoc essentially autistic (please excuse the term) computers in my household. I want to be able to access my private, personal computing environment from anywhere with an internet connection via my portable thin client. I want to be able to easily share my data and resources within a trusted circle. I want all communications to innately and transparently run over an ssl encrypted channel at all times. A radically distributed internet where power and control is put back into the hands of individuals. I'm tired of centralized gilded cages and hierarchical client server models formed and shaped mostly for the benefit of a few monolithic companies and an ever-encroaching federal government, and the ever-insidious "Intellectual Property" gestapo. From where I stand, this is where Plan 9 belongs. This is what it ought to be doing, and where it ought to be going. I hope I have not offended anyone, please do not be too harsh on me if you disagree. You've got some misplaced idealism. Plan 9 isn't needed for any of this. In fact you could probably leverage some existing frameworks/api's and whatnot on a linux machine to do this in a matter of days for cheaper (hours even?). All you'd need is a dash of pragmatism. Remember your comment on how Acme/rio et al don't really interest you but 9p/per-process ns et al did? You can kinda do that in linux. If you want to create a product on that scale yourself, linux, for all its faults, will get you a time-to-market that isn't a pipe dream. You just have to leverage many unsightly 'technologies'. Plan 9 to me is a playground to have something clean and unencumbered by the world. There is a certain zen to saying "well I don't really think that is necessary" and to forgo a "hop on the bandwagon" or "me too!" existence. In the end though, the list will eventually say it: start hammering out some code and we'll see what you come up with. Proof in the pudding. Good luck, Jack
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 IRL
Anybody remember Rangboom? Well see here: http://www.9netics.com/ Of course, the people behind this are on this list. Although it reads as a "who's who" among 9fans, their respective connections to industry are listed where applicable here: http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/people/index.html Not guaranteed to be exhaustive, but a start nonetheless. That might be the closest thing to a Plan 9 real world application database. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Hey, new to this. Trying to get plan9 to work in a VM.
Balwinder S Dheeman wrote: On 06/05/2011 11:51 AM, Josh Marshall wrote: I'm chugging through the resources, reading, and documentation. This system acts differently from anything I've previously used, so I'm at a loss at...everything. I visited the IRC channel and am working through the .pdf and the main site. Is there anything else I should be looking into? Also, the .pdf said that I should have a working plan9 install available to practice, so I tried using vmplayer but the kernel panics. I'm learning, but not well acquainted with kernel programming, debugging, or anything else. Also, if this all seems kind of incoherent, I'm sorry, its past 2am and I've been working on absorbing info for over 4 hours. Try http://werc.homelinux.net/hacks/nano9/ Hope that helps :) Good lord. Between these things and '9front' I am missing much. I need to get back on IRC. Either that or you guys could consolidate all your personal 'werc' sites into one Plan 9 'experimental stuff' wiki. It seems a bit ridiculous that werc offers multi-user editing and comments, yet everyone and their mom has their own werc site with a Plan 9 sub-page. Or better yet, resurrect the 'ole webring concept with those silly links to traverse it :). Personally I'd like to see work put into the Plan 9 wiki backend. I'd rather use it than werc (which I do -- but I've only got a little placeholder page that says "coming soon" -- and has for 6 months...). As for 9front, it looks like fun. I say that even though the word 'fork' scares me. Unfortunately IRC requires free time behind the computer -- which I never have. Boo hoo, I know... Well that's my useless post for the day. As for the OP, I'm with Peter C. Install it native and forget all of this other nonsense for now. You could probably find a good candidate PC in a dumpster somewhere. Or a $70 atom board with a bit of memory could do you just fine (the plain intel ones -- not those omg-ION graphics ones). I know the NMO510 guy works with only one core (but it works). Cheers, Jack
Re: [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users do not believe it
dexen deVries wrote: On Wednesday 15 of June 2011 18:23:56 David Leimbach wrote: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2657135 I'm getting tired of the level of groupthink. Yesterday it was about Anthropogenetic Global Warming^W^W^W Anthropogenic Climate Change (with a comment stating pretty much ``whether the themperatures go up or down it will be /obviously/ our fault anyway''); today it's mouse vs. keyboard. The argument? ``it feels faster in my Vim''. Geebuz. my take on it at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2657818 eh, I always figured that if you are proficient at a given interface (you're over the learning curve) the differences here are minimal at best. So what if I gain a few seconds here and there. I'm going to be stuck behind the computer for a few hours anyway... In the case of plan 9, I love how the textual interfaces it promotes have *everything* in front of you. No bloody expanding menus, or mouse-hover pop-up retardations. So nevermind the speed, it is the consistency and elegance that should matter. For the sake of sanity, not speed. Would Plan 9 (rio) benefit from a default mapping of magic keystrokes that correspond to certain actions? I think so. But only as a means of saving your ass when your mouse explodes. Even then, grab another pc and drawterm or cpu in. I will say that some of the cool cording in Plan 9 interfaces will soon find a perfect mate in the capacitive or infrared touchscreens of today and tomorrow (single, double, triple finger taps on the screen, etc...). That is my take anyway. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users not believe it
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, William Cowan wrote: > Sample tasks at random you say. What is the correct universe to sample > if we wish to substantiate the sort of categorical assertions made on > this thread? Also, familiar vs unfamiliar tasks using familiar vs unfamiliar software. The number of UI variables are mind boggling, which is why I find it hard to get hot headed over any of the assertions, but tend toward trusting the research. Beating the dead horse, -Jack
Re: [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users not believe it
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:42 AM, errno wrote: > On Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:20:27 AM Jack Johnson wrote: >> which is why I find it hard to get hot headed over any of the assertions, >> but tend toward trusting the research. >> > What research? The rabbit hole is pretty deep, but you could start with: International Journal of Human-Computer Studies http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/10715819 ...and a teaser on variables: http://www.intechopen.com/source/pdfs/5711/InTech-The_effects_of_panel_location_target_size_and_gender_on_efficiency_in_simple_direct_manipulation_tasks.pdf -Jack
[9fans] Survey: Current Fossil+venti Filesystem
Fellow 9fans, I am about to build a large-ish fileserver to go along with my cpu/auth machines (native and qemu). I'd like to know some recent real world experiences with fossil+venti. This stems from rumors that for some people, fossil has a history of data loss. I don't like rumors (or data loss), and I'm not on IRC long enough to digest the gossip, so I want a survey: who here has lost data with a fossil+venti setup and what were the circumstances therein? Also what failed? Did fossil get hosed and you had to recall the last snap -- was that successful? Did your venti index get mangled? Did a bunch of porn suddenly show up in your usr directory (I think we know who's fault that is)? Your dog tripping over the power cord with no battery backup doesn't count... I know this probably gets discussed on IRC all the time, but 9fans serves as my "stream of thought" manual for plan 9 with permanent records of damn good information. Plus I am tired of this damn mousing debacle -- I'm about to filter out that thread. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Survey: Current Fossil+venti Filesystem
All of these are great reports and are what I expected. Thanks. David du Colombier wrote: These problems with Fossil just have to be fixed. I am currently working on a fossil derivative which use libventi and libthread instead of liboventi and eventually fix these problems. I am already running it on some test file servers, but it's too early to talk about experiences with it. I had heard of someone working on a fossil derivative with libventi, I didn't know it was you. Is the code public yet? I'd give it a stress testing of my own eventually if given the chance. I don't think I will ever stress things as much as some of you all though -- I just use this for personal use (I'll just say that I've got 2 soekris boards and they are plenty for what I do -- I guess I'm just patient). Charles, I'm glad you pointed out your woes with the SSD, I had considered purchasing an SSD for my cpu/fs but I didn't want to gamble with such a costly device. Now I have every reason to avoid it (I've seen similar testimonies). I figured flash memory was perfect for venti -- but not without some stability. Plus, there are 1TB 2.5" consumer drives out for just north of $100! What a world we live in. By the time I fill that, there will be 2TB 2.5" drives... Cheers, Jack
Re: [9fans] Survey: Current Fossil+venti Filesystem
erik quanstrom wrote: On the other hand, if you can burn $$$, there are enterprisey SSDs based on SLC Flash, built in form of PCIE cards, should be quite reliable. i think the pcie form factor for a hard drive is a trap. pcie is not easily hot swappable, and more expensive than a number of smaller devices that can be mirrored, thus not leading to an expensive single point of failure. - erik Now that you mention pcie drives, has anyone used those little mini-pcie ssd's that fit on some atom motherboards? Might be a convenient location for fossil (what are they like 16GB?). That is if they are supported. I've never even been near one. Does it get attached to the disk controller via sata (by way of magic)? Or does it do something completely different that I cannot fathom? Those I wouldn't consider 'a trap' as they have a bright future on laptop motherboards and hot swap isn't even a useful feature in that case. -jack
[9fans] Cheap ARM board to play with
All, I just had to post this on 9fans. Sorry if everyone has already seen it. http://www.mini-box.com/pico-SAM9G45-X It is $69 USD. I can't even remember how the ARM port is going but this might be some cheap hardware to get up and running. I've never tried getting an ARM board working under plan 9 so I am hesitant. If I can convince myself I've got the time, I will buy one. They've even got schematics posted on their wiki (link can be found if you follow the above URL). -Jack
Re: [9fans] novel userspace paradigms introduced by plan 9
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 8:29 AM, dexen deVries wrote: > disclaimer: i'm not a plan 9 person for any viable value of `p9 person' I'm in the same boat, but I aspire to be in the other boat. :) -Jack
Re: [9fans] interesting(?) widgets idea
yy wrote: 2011/7/12 dexen deVries : on an unrelated note, it seems to me websites with large horizontal margins are synonymous with bullet-point engineering and little to no useful content. http://cm.bell-labs.com/plan9/ This made my morning, thank you. On a related note, I was taught in my technical writing class in college to preserve a "small sea of white space" in technical documents. This allowed the reader to not get lost in words. It was aimed squarely at the "justified" paragraph alignment as named by MS Word and how stupid it looks. I personally subscribe to that idea whole heartedly. In a sense, margins to add to such a technique. Obviously though, it can be over done. -Jack
Re: [9fans] interesting(?) widgets idea
dexen deVries wrote: if the user hovers mouse over widget area, it would be understood as intention to activate widgets, triggering their visibility. ... in other words, all the widgets (menus included) of an app turned into margins when mouse's /not/ over those widgets. eeek! Am I the only one who doesn't like this idea? I cannot stand programs that change their visual representation based upon where the mouse is, or what the keyboard meta keys are up to, etc... Microsoft Office comes to mind (and then the hover-only menus fade in and out like it's 1999). Stupid goddamn flash/js menus on websites that expand when you hover over them then break when you move the mouse to the menu item you'd like (rinse and repeat...). I like acme because it doesn't change its appearance no matter where I put my mouse, nor does it have menus that appear only when I bark at it. The rio menus are unfortunate, but in that context it is the best it could be I think. I do admit though, as was mentioned earlier, rio's 'memory' of what I last selected in its menus as the next default is very unfortunate. I've gotten used to that though. The worst... and I mean worst case of hover-only features is the stupid system tray clock in windows xp. I never now when it will be gracious enough to give me that little pop-up that tells me the full date/time. Or in second place, that little pop-up in windows explorer that gives me a (bad) summary of folder contents/size. It's a crap shoot. Hover-only stuff is a disease. -Jack
Re: [9fans] 9fans archive engine
Russ Cox wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Yaroslav wrote: Is the software which powers 9fans web archive publicly available? it's not. ahem... let me put on my pedantic shoes... 9fans.net/archive wrote: > "powered by grep(1) "
Re: [9fans] cheep ssds
erik quanstrom wrote: i just got a 40gb intel ssd for building up a new file server. i really wasn't expecting 275 out of a theoretical 300mb/s. maybe i forgot how to count and it's actually 27.5. :-) blakely# time dd -if /dev/sdE0/data -of /dev/null -bs 512k -count 100 100+0 records in 100+0 records out 0.00u 0.01s 0.19rdd -if /dev/sdE0/data -of /dev/null ... blakely# hoc 512*1024*100/0.19 275941052.6316 - erik I'd be curious on an update in the future concerning reliability. I think you of all people could give it a good workout. I'd love to put a cache (or a worm when prices come down on high capacity guys) on an ssd in plan 9, but I am expecting it to quit after a few months for some reason... I'm not very trusting for some reason. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Fossil fs recovery
David Leimbach wrote: Is it obvious enough from the man pages that this wouldn't be too useful to have on the Plan 9 wiki? I'm a big believer in the wiki, but not when it pushes one to avoid reading the authoritative documentation of the man pages. Dave http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Setting_up_Venti/index.html has the gist of setting up venti by hand. The bits on re-configuring Fossil aren't there (save for the mention of the venti environment variable). In my mind the man pages pick up the slack of the wiki in this case. Also, I personally use the 9fans archive as my own personal manual next to the man pages (and at last resort the wiki). I for some reason always get the impression that the wiki is missing bits... so I use it only has a means of discovering just what man page exactly I should be reading :) -Jack
[9fans] Those power-saving USB drives and Plan 9
Greetings, I'm shopping around for a 2.5" usb enclosure/drive solution for some cool and quiet backup. I'm reading that lots of these enclosures spin down the disks when they feel like it. Now, this might be more broad than a Plan 9 question, but I'd simply like to know if this is a safe 'feature' to use? Both from a reliability standpoint (why not just keep it warm and spinning?) and from a Plan 9 compatibility standpoint (will that long pause before spinning up give me grief?). I've never used this kind of thing before so pardon the naïvety. Also, I'll mention that I am not interested in "cheating" this feature by touching a file every 30 seconds or some other hack. I've not purchased yet, so I've an opportunity to do it right from the start. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Intel atom system
John Floren wrote: On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 1:42 AM, Ruckdashel wrote: i'm looking at building a system to get my plan9 tinkering out of VMs. I'm looking at using a zotac Ionitx-t-u mobo with a sata ssd. I'm curious if any one has tried this mobo. I'm trying to avoid having another linux box lying around. We tried a Zotac IONITX-G-E board here but found that it didn't work with Plan 9... I don't remember what the problem was, probably either the ethernet or the SATA controller (the usual suspects). The Intel D510MO was more compatible (worked with 9atom, don't remember if we tried it with stock), cheaper ($75 at Frys, I think), and smaller (about 6"x6"). John Hi, I have a few of these little boards (D510MO). I read both on Eric's site and this list that someone had these working, but I am having issues. I've tried the lab's 9pcf, 9pccd, and 9pcf/9pccd from Eric's ftp server (I had assumed they were from 9atom... maybe that was a bad assumption). I also tried 9pcf from 9front. The lab's kernels never found the sata drives (I supposed I expected that), and all the others find the sata hardware, but hang right after memory capacities are printed (gee, I've seen this before... what could it be this time... :)). Without me having to try a zillion different kernel/bootloader combinations, would the people who use the D510MO sound off what kernel/loader they are using? I'd be much obliged. THanks, Jack
Re: [9fans] Intel atom system
> Hi, I have a few of these little boards (D510MO). I read both on Eric's site and this list that someone had these working, but I am having issues. I've tried the lab's 9pcf, 9pccd, and 9pcf/9pccd from Eric's ftp server (I had assumed they were from 9atom... maybe that was a bad assumption). I also tried 9pcf from 9front. The lab's kernels never found the sata drives (I supposed I expected that), and all the others find the sata hardware, but hang right after memory capacities are printed (gee, I've seen this before... what could it be this time... :)). Without me having to try a zillion different kernel/bootloader combinations, would the people who use the D510MO sound off what kernel/loader they are using? I'd be much obliged. THanks, Jack As an update I'd like to point out that the D510MO works fine with 9atom or 9front kernels (lab's kernels = no sata). I in fact had a bad board. I wanted to point that out so that no one was discouraged from trying one of these little buggers out. At $70 a pop though, I'd be ready for some QC issues, which I suspect I may have stumbled upon. There is always the off chance that I fried it though... -Jack
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
Christoph Lohmann wrote: Hello, now that an academic non-polished Plan 9 remake with idiotic dependencies and the fun OS, which has its only goal to add political jokes, are taking all the pace, I hereby declare, that Plan 9 is MORE ALIVE THAN EVER. Rest In Peace. Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann FTFY
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:42 PM, John Floren wrote: > We have discussed this. "Nixie" was a proposed new name, but for now > we'd rather get the actual code and distribution right than worry > about the name. If you need yet another proposal that would Google with minimal collisions, it's possible that the first rabbit in space was named Marnushka (and not Glenda). -Jack
[9fans] is there a at91 port?
Hello, I am asking around to see if there is anyone working on a port to the Atmel at91 platform (sam9xxx boards)? I have one somewhere (just finding the damn thing might take a while), and I am going to slowly start figuring this out. Honestly though, it is my first attempt at anything like this, so don't expect anything out of me. By the way, any tips (i.e. links to literature) would be greatly appreciated. This is a learning experience. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Returning to Plan 9: Virtualization, Distributions
On 11/22/2011 9:39 AM, Joel C. Salomon wrote: After a long hiatus, I'd like to get back to experimenting with Plan 9. I have an Ubuntu Linux laptop with AMD's virtualization extensions supported by the CPU, so I figure my best bet is one of the umpteen virtualization tools. Which is best supported by Plan 9 — virtualbox, qemu, or something else? Also, what distributions are best for amd64? Bell Labs'? 9front? 9atom? Thanks, —Joel I have had good luck with qemu-kvm. I've even got a VPS running with all the management bells and wistles like libvirt and such. It has been running solid since march (lab's plan9 with fossil only). I ran a qemu/kvm instance at home for a while too. That was under archlinux though (and an AMD cpu with the necessary extensions). In the former case I had to really play with plan9.ini to get it to boot all the way, but it required nothing out of the ordinary in the end. Choose your virtualized NIC wisely I suppose. -Jack
