On Fri, Apr 4, 2025 at 8:50 AM Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2025 at 5:48 PM Marc Culler <marc.cul...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > This will unnecessarily make it more difficult to build the Sage_mac OS > > binary package. In order to make that package easy to install in the way > > that normal macOS users expect, it must be signed and notarized. In order > > to notarize the package it must be self-contained. > > > > Not signing and notarizing the package would break it. So would requiring > > users to install a particular version of python. > > > > I do not believe Dima for a second when he says: > > This is pure and undiluted slander. Please stop at once.
+1 > > Dima > > > "We constantly see support cases where users start installing Sage, and > > end up running into errors installing Sage's python3" > > > > Yes, people have problems sometimes. But those problems are not caused by > > Sage's python3 spkg, which always has built with no issues when building > > the Sage_macOS binary package since version 9.2. > > > > The following statement is just an attempt at obfuscation: > > "In particular, this happens when they try installing a stable version of > > Sage, which is too old for the rapid changes happening in macOS (just > > today 2025-03-30, we had such a case)." > > (There was no such problem reported on sage-support that day and no details > > to back up this claim.) > > > > There were about 35,000 downloads of the Sage_macOS 10.5 package prior to > > the release of 10.6 on Tuesday. Needless to say there were 0 issues > > related to the Python3 spkg, and less than 5 issues of any sort. > > > > There is nothing broken about the Python3 spkg. Don't "fix it" > > > > - Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 2, 2025 at 12:03:12 PM UTC-5 wst...@gmail.com wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 8:38 AM 'tobia...@gmx.de' via sage-devel > >> <sage-...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > Sounds like a good idea. Installing a specific version of Python > >> > nowadays is easy enough and there a few tools that make this experience > >> > as smooth as possible. For example, uv uses prebuild pythons for many OS > >> > to speed up the installation and to reduce the risk of build errors (see > >> > https://github.com/astral-sh/python-build-standalone). I very much doubt > >> > that sage will ever reach this level of smooth user experience and > >> > sophistication - nor should it be an aim of a computer algebra system to > >> > worry about this. > >> > > >> > >> +1 to exactly this. I was going to post exactly the same comment about > >> uv. That project has put a lot of work into specifically creating > >> easily redistributable Python installs... so other projects (like > >> Sage) don't have to. It makes a lot of sense these days to put > >> documentation effort into pointing people at good tools for installing > >> python, rather than maintaining our own build of python. A really > >> similar thing is how "make configure" in sage now suggests system > >> packages to install -- I just built sage 10.6 from source on some of > >> my favorite Linux boxes, and the experience was great. > >> > >> > So +1 if it is replaced by proper documentation using a modern and > >> > standard tool (uv?) plus a few alternatives that usual work (system > >> > installation, pyenv). > >> > > >> > On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 8:07:07 PM UTC+2 dim...@gmail.com wrote: > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 10:57 AM David Lowry-Duda <da...@lowryduda.com> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > On 10:50 Tue 01 Apr 2025, Trevor Karn wrote: > >> >> > >This is my concern. But if there is a way to use only system python > >> >> > >installed following https://www.python.org/about/gettingstarted/ > >> >> > >without > >> >> > >regard to version issues, and get rid of SPKG python, then that > >> >> > >makes sense > >> >> > >to me. > >> >> > > >> >> > I think sage currently checks for python >= 3.11. I don't know what > >> >> > features that uses, but this is newer than what comes with several > >> >> > major distributions. For example, Ubuntu 20.04 LTS uses python 3.8 as > >> >> > its system python, and Ubuntu 22.04 LTS uses python 3.10 as its > >> >> > system python. > >> >> > >> >> You are not limited to only one python3 on these systems, you can > >> >> install another, newer, python3 (it would get a suffix, like > >> >> python3.11) and use it just as well. > >> >> (for Ubuntu 20.04 LTS one can only official python3.10, and newer via > >> >> a ppa, but it's an outlier, and 20.04 LTS is a very old OS, not really > >> >> well-supported anymore, OS. In May 2025 one either has to pay extra > >> >> for its support, or upgrade). > >> >> > >> >> Our policies on minimal python3 versions are more or less in line with > >> >> what the main scientific Python packages, such as scipy, are following > >> >> - and they are doing just fine without bundling a python3 as a > >> >> sub-package. Our current 3.11 is a bit ahead of the curve ATM, but we > >> >> could be a bit slower, and sticky to a particularly widely adapted > >> >> system, like scipy does. > >> >> > >> >> Dima > >> >> > > >> >> > - DLD > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >> > Groups "sage-devel" group. > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> >> > send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. > >> >> > To view this discussion visit > >> >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/Z-wMylxcLRvyborl%40icerm-dld. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > Groups "sage-devel" group. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >> > an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. > >> > To view this discussion visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/7ab049d4-24b7-47d2-8076-570343e06278n%40googlegroups.com. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> William (http://wstein.org) > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "sage-devel" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/146a1582-bffb-4474-94b0-c12818f802afn%40googlegroups.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq195%3DUiGkY5%2BsfZzVs_2Wi%3Du2d42cN0pB4Ma-YW-DkaYg%40mail.gmail.com. -- William (http://wstein.org) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. 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