On Thu, Apr 3, 2025 at 5:48 PM Marc Culler <marc.cul...@gmail.com> wrote: > > This will unnecessarily make it more difficult to build the Sage_mac OS > binary package. In order to make that package easy to install in the way > that normal macOS users expect, it must be signed and notarized. In order to > notarize the package it must be self-contained. > > Not signing and notarizing the package would break it. So would requiring > users to install a particular version of python. > > I do not believe Dima for a second when he says:
This is pure and undiluted slander. Please stop at once. Dima > "We constantly see support cases where users start installing Sage, and end > up running into errors installing Sage's python3" > > Yes, people have problems sometimes. But those problems are not caused by > Sage's python3 spkg, which always has built with no issues when building the > Sage_macOS binary package since version 9.2. > > The following statement is just an attempt at obfuscation: > "In particular, this happens when they try installing a stable version of > Sage, which is too old for the rapid changes happening in macOS (just today > 2025-03-30, we had such a case)." > (There was no such problem reported on sage-support that day and no details > to back up this claim.) > > There were about 35,000 downloads of the Sage_macOS 10.5 package prior to the > release of 10.6 on Tuesday. Needless to say there were 0 issues related to > the Python3 spkg, and less than 5 issues of any sort. > > There is nothing broken about the Python3 spkg. Don't "fix it" > > - Marc > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 2, 2025 at 12:03:12 PM UTC-5 wst...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 8:38 AM 'tobia...@gmx.de' via sage-devel >> <sage-...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> > >> > Sounds like a good idea. Installing a specific version of Python nowadays >> > is easy enough and there a few tools that make this experience as smooth >> > as possible. For example, uv uses prebuild pythons for many OS to speed up >> > the installation and to reduce the risk of build errors (see >> > https://github.com/astral-sh/python-build-standalone). I very much doubt >> > that sage will ever reach this level of smooth user experience and >> > sophistication - nor should it be an aim of a computer algebra system to >> > worry about this. >> > >> >> +1 to exactly this. I was going to post exactly the same comment about >> uv. That project has put a lot of work into specifically creating >> easily redistributable Python installs... so other projects (like >> Sage) don't have to. It makes a lot of sense these days to put >> documentation effort into pointing people at good tools for installing >> python, rather than maintaining our own build of python. A really >> similar thing is how "make configure" in sage now suggests system >> packages to install -- I just built sage 10.6 from source on some of >> my favorite Linux boxes, and the experience was great. >> >> > So +1 if it is replaced by proper documentation using a modern and >> > standard tool (uv?) plus a few alternatives that usual work (system >> > installation, pyenv). >> > >> > On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 8:07:07 PM UTC+2 dim...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 10:57 AM David Lowry-Duda <da...@lowryduda.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > On 10:50 Tue 01 Apr 2025, Trevor Karn wrote: >> >> > >This is my concern. But if there is a way to use only system python >> >> > >installed following https://www.python.org/about/gettingstarted/ >> >> > >without >> >> > >regard to version issues, and get rid of SPKG python, then that makes >> >> > >sense >> >> > >to me. >> >> > >> >> > I think sage currently checks for python >= 3.11. I don't know what >> >> > features that uses, but this is newer than what comes with several >> >> > major distributions. For example, Ubuntu 20.04 LTS uses python 3.8 as >> >> > its system python, and Ubuntu 22.04 LTS uses python 3.10 as its system >> >> > python. >> >> >> >> You are not limited to only one python3 on these systems, you can >> >> install another, newer, python3 (it would get a suffix, like >> >> python3.11) and use it just as well. >> >> (for Ubuntu 20.04 LTS one can only official python3.10, and newer via >> >> a ppa, but it's an outlier, and 20.04 LTS is a very old OS, not really >> >> well-supported anymore, OS. In May 2025 one either has to pay extra >> >> for its support, or upgrade). >> >> >> >> Our policies on minimal python3 versions are more or less in line with >> >> what the main scientific Python packages, such as scipy, are following >> >> - and they are doing just fine without bundling a python3 as a >> >> sub-package. Our current 3.11 is a bit ahead of the curve ATM, but we >> >> could be a bit slower, and sticky to a particularly widely adapted >> >> system, like scipy does. >> >> >> >> Dima >> >> > >> >> > - DLD >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> > Groups "sage-devel" group. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> >> > an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> >> > To view this discussion visit >> >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/Z-wMylxcLRvyborl%40icerm-dld. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "sage-devel" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> > email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion visit >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/7ab049d4-24b7-47d2-8076-570343e06278n%40googlegroups.com. >> >> >> >> -- >> William (http://wstein.org) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/146a1582-bffb-4474-94b0-c12818f802afn%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. 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