Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

[Jeff Clearwater]

Hi all, Yes the history of SMA missing the boat with supporting off-grid in the U.S. goes way back to the John B. and Sam V. days - they really tried going way back to the 90s.  Germany would just not prioritize it. I was one of the early beta testers of the SI - it's by far the best system out there - if only they would offer a split-phase. Now the game is to see who gets to really supporting high-voltage Li WITH off-grid support of generators as well as grid-tie sell-back.  Outback and Pika - game on!  I sure wish SMA were in the running! - we'll see with the SBS but probably no generator support right Mike? What can we do to get the message through Mike?  Okay I'm probably dreaming. For what it's worth, Jeff -- Jeff Clearwater Village Power Design Renewable Energy Design & Installation Ecovillage Design Consultant Licensed Solar Contractor in CA - C-46 www.villagepowerdesign.com 413-559-9763 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Drake wrote: That being said, SMA is loosing a lot of sales by not having a split phase Sunny Island on the market. It would be my unit of choice for many application that I have gone with other brands. The price of a pair of SIs is often just not competitive.  At 12:25 AM 9/21/2018, you wrote: Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/related;          boundary="_010_DB7PR04MB4506FEAEB9C7C3E0387F51EFBB120DB7PR04MB4506eurp_";          type="multipart/alternative" Tump - You are right about the large number of times that has been asked, and I wish I had a happy answer.   However, with all the work on Sunny Boy Storage and Sunny Central Storage (and even a Tripower storage), resources to develop and test a split phase Sunny Island are not available.  There is active work on updating the communications to support SMA’s Ethernet based communications.  Still, this may be months out.   With the Smartformer being discontinued, the MidNite MNX-240 is the recommended part to create 240 split phase from one Sunny Island.   Best regards – Mike     SMA America Michael Mahon Technical Trainer, Solar Academy 6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300 Rocklin, CA 95765 U.S.A. Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com   Solar Academy: www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html   Full training schedule: https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html           This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you.   From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of Tump Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:01 PM To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC   I bet Mike could retire from the industry if he had a nickel for every time he was asked for/about that. I’ve asked Santa for years…… €¦ still waiting. T On Sep 20, 2018, at 5:21 PM, Chris Schaefer <ch...@solarandwindfx.com > wrote:   Hey Michael from SMA, any chance we can finally get an 240vac SI here in the states?   Christopher   On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 12:11 PM, Harry Mahon < michael.ma...@sma-america.com> wrote: Marco – <   I will need to ask for information about the BYD availability.  Once those units have all required listings/certifications and are available in US, they should be ready to use with SBS.  The CANBUS comms to the BMS has already been vetted, and they are on the SMA Approved battery list already.  But I will get confirmation on the immediate usability.   Best regards – <Mike         SMA America Michael Mahon Technical Trainer, Solar Academy 6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300 Rocklin, CA 95765 U.S.A. Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com   Solar Academy: www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html   Full training schedule: https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html     <image001.jpg> <image002.jpg> <image003.jpg> <image004.jpg> <image005.jpg> <image006.png> <image007.jpg>     This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you.   From: RE-wrenches < re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 10:20 PM To: RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC     Mahalo Mike.   Can you tell us please when the SS will actually be able to integrate the BYD battery platform in the north American market?   marco On Monday, September 17, 2018, Harry Mahon < michael.ma...@sma-america.com> wrote: Marco and all – yes that is the correct spec ssheet for the BYD batteries that will work with Sunny Boy Storage.   SMA strongly would recommend the Sunny Island for off-grid in general and certainly whole home backup.  See the attached from Home Power April/May 2011; quad stack of SIs acting as UPS for the home – just charging batteries when grid is prresent, powering home with batteries/PV when grid is gone.  A dual split phase cluster is almost 24,000 W continuous (!) capability and can handle crazy power factor loads with no issues.  Built in generator functions and two relay positions per Sunny Island allow for lots of redundancy and fail-safe load shedding to be built in.   The Sunny Boy Storage (SBS) is designed to be a grid-tied inverter to allow higher self consumption of local PV power.  Even with the ABU to allow off grid operation (grid forming on its AC outputs rather than just on the dedicated 120VAC Secure Power Supply outlet), there can be a several second delay in the switch from grid power to microgrid as the ABU must signal the Sunny Boy Storage that it has disconnected from the grid and that it is safe for the SBS to form a grid on its output terminals.  Also be aware that there is no master-slave configuration ability with the SBS – they will always assume they are acting independently on their energy meter input information.    Best regards – Mike   SMA America Michael Mahon Technical Trainer, Solar Academy 6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300 Rocklin, CA 95765 U.S.A. Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com   Solar Academy: www.SMA-America.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/overview.html   Full training schedule: https://www.sma-america.com/partners/sma-solar-academy/seminars/trainings/training/list.html     <image001.jpg> <image002.jpg> <image003.jpg> <image004.jpg> <image005.jpg> <image006.png> <image007.jpg>     This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you.   From: RE-wrenches < re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 10:08 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC   Sabaidee from Vientiane, Lao PDR.   Attached is the spec sheet on the BYD battery in question.   I’ve confirmed with SMA directly that there’s no capability for the Sunny Storage design (S.S., ABU and battery) to use a generator input.  My apologies for mis-stating earlier that it could accommodate a generator.   As far as grid-tie with batteries, the Holy Grail as far as I’m concerned is being able to provide whole house back-up and not have to do the old fashioned and pain in the arse critical load sub-panel.  The more choices that we’re provided, the more better.  So I’m pleased that companies like SMA, Ensync, SolarEdge and others are bringing new equipment and designs to market to allow for whole house back-up.   marco   From: RE-wrenches [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 5:00 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC   HI Harry,   The battery is charged from the AC side correct? And is the charging algorithm inside the ABU.   If so why couldn’t you use a generator to charge the battery?   jay   peltz power       On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:10 AM, Harry Mahon < michael.ma...@sma-america.com> wrote:   Marco –   The Sunny Boy Storage “Advanced Backup Unit” accessory or ABU will be discussed at SPI in a couple weeks – first units are being stockeed now at our warehouses in US.  The ABU will allow the SBS to be a grid former in case of utility outage, however there are no plans to have any generator inputs/controls to allow for battery charging from generat And yes, BYD BBox HV 5.12/7.68/10.24 devices will be supported when available in US (will be this year I understand)   Mike   -----   The SMA Sunny Storage looks promising.   It will be able to work with the LGC RESU10 HV battery and, sooner rather than later I hope, BYD package as well.   And it will allow for a backup generator tie in.   Ta-dah!   marco   On Thursday, September 13, 2018, Bruce Erickson < bruce at mendocinosolar.com> wrote:   > Hi Marco, > > I partially agree with you. I recently bid Outback, StorEdge, and Pika > options for a GTBB customer, partly to understand pricing for myself, and > found OB to be so much more expensive. The customer really wanted a system > that would be to be able to charge the batteries off a generator in an > outage, understandably. But the extra thousands in cost for OB ended up > being prohibitive. Add-on rapid shutdown is a killer. So he’s opting for a > nice modern high voltage DC system, with optimizers and built-in RSD, but > when there’s an extended outage, he’ll have to hope the sun comes out right > after the storm to recharge the batteries, or he’ll end up in the dark > again, until the grid comes back. Maybe there’s a high voltage inverter > that allows generator charging, or a third-party battery charger, that I’m > not aware of. Otherwise high voltage systems are very limited for backup, > at least in winter storm scenarios. > > *Bruce Erickson* > Mendocino Solar Service > PO Box 1252 > Mendocino, CA 95460 > 707-937-1701 > 707-937-1741 fax > bruce at mendocinosolar.com > > *Connecting Mendocino County to Solar Since* *1994* > >   _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org   _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org   -- Chris Schaefer’s Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org   t...@swnl.net                www.SWNL.net                 Solarwinds Northernlights              Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California                          207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401                                                            Blair "TUMP" May                ********  MAINE'S CHARTER ********                       NABCEP    "Certified PV Installer"                  ********  MAINE'S CHARTER ********                   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"       _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Jeff Clearwater Village Power Design Renewable Energy Design & Installation Ecovillage Design Consultant Former NABCEP Certified - 2003-2012 Licensed Solar Contractor in CA - C-46 www.villagepowerdesign.com 413-559-9763 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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