Life under the big tent of CYCLING. There's still plenty of room for all of us.
I hope we don't revert down to the reverse snobbery of dismissing things just because they are expensive. It's possible to find a sandwich that costs $20, a cocktail that costs $35, socks that cost $80, a wallet that costs $750, a jacket that costs $900, shoes that cost $1500, a bike that costs $18k, a car that costs $300k, a house that costs $20M. Who cares? If I choose to buy an $80 pair of socks and you get in a big wad over the waste of it, that's all on you. For every Riv owner who thinks it's stupid to buy a $1000 crankset, there are 1000 'normal' people who think it's stupid to buy a $1000 bicycle. The fact is that 95% of the rides that 95% of riders do are under 50 miles, and almost anybody could do a 50 mile ride on almost any bike. I did a 50 mile ride on my BMX bike when I was 9. Over the years, I did the same 50 mile ride on a $200 Univega, a $800 Cannondale, and a $1400 Schwinn Paramount. I got tired each time. It has almost nothing to do with what equipment you NEED. It has almost everything to do with the equipment you WANT. If that dude wants a $10k carbo-rocket and you want a $2800 Atlantis, you are both overspending your real needs, and indulging your wants. Many would say you are both conspicuously indulging. I say God bless you both. Now sure there's a lot not to like about people who buy exactly what their buddies buy and dress just like their buddies and then as a group mock an individual riding in Samba's and Grip Kings. But what if it was a bunch of us in Samba's and Grip Kings making fun of a 50- something 25lb overweight guy riding a Madone in a Team Kit? Wouldn't we be just as conformist and just as clique-ish and lame? I'm sure a lot of us here on the site genuinely feel bad for people who want to ride, and buy the only thing available to them at their LBS, a pseudo- racing bike, and then live with the discomfort, displeasure and downright pain of not having a more all-rounderish bike. They are suffering unnecessarily, we think, and we may be right. But going right to the punchline that those people are dumb or immature or conformists or something else that is bad is going a little too far, a little too fast. On Aug 18, 2:23 pm, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote: > On Wed, 2010-08-18 at 13:47 -0700, bfd wrote: > > > > > just like it's fun to go bombing around on a country bike, some folks > > > > find it fun to go fast on a road bike whether they race or not. light > > > > bikes are fun to ride, and if people are having fun - why not have a > > > > race style bike? for the some, the "occasional short fun ride" is 50 > > > > miles at 20+mph - a road bike seems like a good choice there. > > > > To me, the real question is, other than styling and the whole fantasy > > > wannabee pro racer let's play pretend, what real advantage does > > > something like a Madone give you for precisely that kind of riding over > > > a racing bike that Eddy Merckx might have ridden? > > > Well, if you look at today's Eddy Merckx bikes, probably not much. > > No, I'm not talking about the Merckx brand, I'm talking about bikes he > might have actually raced on back in the 1970s. > > > Compared to the bikes he used when he raced, quite a bit of > > difference. For example, Madone are carbon, use integrated shifters > > and clipless pedals. The bikes definitely weigh a lot less too. > > And I'm not talking about what are the differences between today's race > bikes and those of the early 1970s. > > The question is, what REAL ADVANTAGE does a bike like a Madone give you, > the rider, over a racing bike of the 1970s? Differences in frame > materials do not constitute an advantage in and of themselves. > > > Assuming Eddy used a bike that weighed 18-20lbs, today's bikes are > > limited to something like 6.8kg or about 14.9lbs. That 3 to 5 lb > > difference is pretty big. It may mean more to a racer than an average > > overweight weekend warrior. > > OK, let's say a five pounds lighter bike for a rider who might well be > 10 KG overweight or more. How much of an actual advantage is that? > What does it translate to in terms of performance, as opposed to > bragging rights? If you and your pals ride primarily for fun and > fitness, do those missing 3-5 pounds enhance your enjoyment? (It's > certainly hard to see how they enhance your fitness -- that would be > improved by adding weight, not subtracting it.) Will you go faster? If > so, how much faster? And how much difference would that make? > > > But, as Patrick stated if it gets someone out on a bike than what's > > not to like?! The bad thing is that because racing style bikes are so > > prevalent, they dominate the market and make it harder for good, > > reliable equipment to be available at a reasonable price. > > So you're saying racing equipment is less expensive? Balderdash. > > Let's just pick on wheels, shall we? Two thousand for a set of low > spoke count racing wheels, and if you break a spoke you're done, the > wheel isn't turning in the rear triangle. Compare that with a handmade > wheel like what Rich at Riv builds, or what Peter White builds - let's > say, Dura Ace hubs and Open Pro rims, 32 or 36 spokes. Dead reliable > wheels that would still turn if you did break a spoke. > > Racing brakes, perhaps? $875 or more for a set of brakes? Yeah, you > shave a few grams. What's a set of Shimano brakes go for? Or Tektros? > > Or maybe let's talk cranks. A thousand bucks for a crankset that maybe > (or maybe not) includes the bottom bracket bearings. How's that compare > with the Sugino Alpina, for example? > > I was at a rest stop at our club century 2 years ago and I overheard a > guy behind me talking about the upgrade he'd just made to his bike: > carbon handlebars and a carbon stem. It cost him a thousand bucks, but > man, look at how many grams he saved! A thousand bucks for a handlebar > and a stem? 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