On Aug 16, 1:46 pm, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote: > On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 13:04 -0700, bfd wrote: > > I don't get it what's with all the randonneur worshipping? I know > > people here consider "racing" to be a bad word as it represents all > > that is supposedly wrong with bicycling. Yet, randonneur is consider > > good?! > > Yes. There's very little resemblance between racing and the riding most > of us do, and almost no correspondence between the values of racing and > ours. > > Racing, remember, is a sport where there is one winner and everyone else > is a loser, and a sport where it seems to be well known that the top > performers -- elite athletes who have no resemblance to us at all -- all > cheat. Randonneuring is done by people just like us, sometimes in fact > us. It's riding like we do, taken out to the limits. It rewards self > reliance, and everybody's a winner. >
> So, which of those two extremes is more worthy of respect? > > > > > What I don't understand is both racing and randonneuring require > > massive amount of time, commitment and training. You can't do either > > well without putting in the time. > > Yes, but if you put in the time, it's possible for an ordinary rider > like me (as opposed to naturally gifted athletes) to do it. In fact, > I've done it. I'll do it again. But on club rides, I ride with the > CCs. Faster than the CCs are the Bs, the BBs, and the As. And this > isn't a racing club; most of the A riders aren't fast enough or trained > enough to race, even at the lowest levels. > > Put it another way: anybody here who can do a 100 mile ride could do a > 200K brevet, if they were interested. > Thanks Steve. I think the issue is more of what use and what people consider "comfortable." Unlike you or many others here, my friends and I don't do long distance riding. Due to various time constraints, i.e., family, work, other obligations, we only do "short" rides of 40-70 miles, and then only on weekends or holidays (if we can get out. So, doing a 200K "brevet" or longer is out. > But in the context of this discussion, you're confusing the sport with > the equipment. When we're discussing bikes, we're discussing the > equipment. > > Why the interest in this type of bicycle? For one thing, bikes of this > type make it much more comfortable and much easier to do the sort of > rides we do. > > A bike that's designed to be comfortable and easily controllable when > you're very tired is a very pleasant bike to ride on a century. > I guess that comes down to how you define "comfortable." For many, like my friends and I, a "racing-style" bike is all we need. Since we only do rides under 100 miles, actually closer to 40-60 miles, racing- style bikes with 700x23/25 sized tires is all we need. I ride 700x25 pumped up to about 80-90psi and find them really comfortable. I do ride a carbon bike, but we all know frameset material is never a factor in making a bike comfortable..... ;) > A bike that's designed to be ridden in severe weather is a pleasure to > ride in the rain. > We live in the SF Bay Area, so rain is not a big deal. Of course, people like me who commute, have fenders, but for most rides it is not needed. We don't need racks and bags as our rides are short enough that we either carry a few powerbars (yuch!) or can stop somewhere to get food and drinks. > A bike that's designed to be able to carry enough to sustain a rider on > a brevet is equally capable of carrying everything I need to carry on a > winter's day, when it might be 28 degrees at ride start time but it > might get up to 45-50 before we're done. > Again, we don't do "brevets" or the distance you do, so carrying enough to sustain a rider is not an issue. > What is there to not like about all that? > Agree. Nothing. I like all kind of bikes, so rando style works as well as commuters, racers, cross, touring or any other bike. (OK, I don't really care for those flying pigeon chinese bikes... > And for another, these bikes actually look like a bicycle. Unlike just > about everything you find in a LBS today. > You haven't been to my LBS where there are all kind of bikes and styles - from the latest Euro carbon to classic steel framesets from builders like Ron Cooper: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bike_Shops/A-Bicycle-Odyssey.htm In fact, Tony's shop iwas the US importer of Ron Cooper framesets, at least until Ron retires! > > > > Further, it also appears to require bikes that can be costly. > > There are quite a few Kogswell P/Rs - configured with drop bars, the "R" > in the name means "Randonneur" - that have been ridden on brevets. Even > fully tricked out with a top of the line lighting system and the best > handmade wheels money can buy, a P/R cost less to outfit than the > cheapest Madone. So too will a hand-made custom from most of the > builders you see over at the VSalon. > Agree, Kogwell was a nice frameset. Are they still in business? I haven't heard too much about them recently. > > *True* > > racing bikes can cost in excess of $5K to 10K or more, i.e., think top > > of the line Trek Madone, Specialized S-Work Tarmac or even something > > like a Pegoretti Love #3...OK, the last is suppose to be a joke as I > > know there's a bunch of controversy about it :_P. Similarly, a *true* > > rando bike can be just as costly, especially if you ache for something > > French like a Herse or Singer. > > You can spend as much as you like on a bike, that's certainly true. It > doesn't mean you have to. These days, a crankset on a high-end racing > bike is a thousand bucks, and I'm not sure that includes the bottom > bracket bearings. I've seen ultra-lightweight racing brakes that cost > more than five hundred bucks a pair. Wheels go for upwards of a couple > of thousand dollars. So by your standards, shouldn't you be griping > about club riding bikes, the sort of thing you see posted on the Serotta > forum every day? > > By contrast, randonneuring equipment is dirt cheap, even top of the line > equipment. A top of the line randonneur wheel set will be more than a > thousand dollars less expensive than a racing wheel set -- and it will > be far more durable. You probably won't find carbon bars and carbon > stems and carbon seatposts on a randonneur. Spending big bucks to shave > grams doesn't make much sense when you're planning to carry a 10 lb load > of clothes and tools and supplies. > > > Is the attraction that you can ride a bike that is custom fitted for > > things like racks, lights, fat tires and fenders? Couldn't a cross > > style bike with fenders, lights and racks work just as well? After > > all, you can race/train/rando on just about anything, right? Thanks! > Agree, racing parts are outrageous and I bet those fancy builders like Lightweight and Reynolds, to name a few, that sell wheelsets in the 2-5K range, sell out! > Why would I want a bike intended for cyclocross racing when I don't do > that type of riding, and nothing that makes a bike especially suited for > cyclocross makes it specially suited for anything I do? And what's > wrong with a custom frame? > Sorry, should have specify "touring" bike, not cross. > I ride centuries, sometimes even 200K brevets. And on those long rides, > I get plenty tired. I'm sure there have been centuries where I've been > as tired at the end of the ride as some randonneurs are finishing a 600K > brevet. I see a lot of benefit in a bike that's comfortable and that is > easy to control when I'm that exhausted. > Again, what's comfortable for you may not work for others. My friends and I don't ride 600K brevets, so our "racing-style" bikes work for us. We're comfortable, or at least I am, and can do our 40-100 miles rides. > I sometimes ride at night. OK, you got me there, I rarely ride at nights, if ever, and don't need things like lights. I do have a rear reflector on my commuter (cross bike) and can add a light if I really need it. >I ride when the weather is dodgy, and am > willing to risk getting caught in the rain. I like to be comfortable, > and I like to be self sufficient. That takes a certain amount of stuff. Agree. on my commuter I have fenders. It helps alot on days where the streets are wet from rain or heavy fog. But if it is raining hard, you're still going to get wet and comfort is questionable, at least for me. > I don't have a team car following me with supplies, and if I called my > wife to come get me because I had a mechanical I wouldn't ever hear the > end of it. Agree. A mechanically sound bike - no matter what type is important! That's one of the reasons why I ride durable 32h spoke wheels with regular spokes and rims that can be repaired at "anybikeshopusa" if needed. I stay far away from wheels with proprietary rims and spokes. That's also a reason I also use Campy ergos shifters as they are easily rebuildable, small parts are readily available and reasonably priced. Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
