On Aug 18, 2:23 pm, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote: > On Wed, 2010-08-18 at 13:47 -0700, bfd wrote: > > > > > just like it's fun to go bombing around on a country bike, some folks > > > > find it fun to go fast on a road bike whether they race or not. light > > > > bikes are fun to ride, and if people are having fun - why not have a > > > > race style bike? for the some, the "occasional short fun ride" is 50 > > > > miles at 20+mph - a road bike seems like a good choice there. > > > > To me, the real question is, other than styling and the whole fantasy > > > wannabee pro racer let's play pretend, what real advantage does > > > something like a Madone give you for precisely that kind of riding over > > > a racing bike that Eddy Merckx might have ridden? > > > Well, if you look at today's Eddy Merckx bikes, probably not much. > > No, I'm not talking about the Merckx brand, I'm talking about bikes he > might have actually raced on back in the 1970s. > > > Compared to the bikes he used when he raced, quite a bit of > > difference. For example, Madone are carbon, use integrated shifters > > and clipless pedals. The bikes definitely weigh a lot less too. > > And I'm not talking about what are the differences between today's race > bikes and those of the early 1970s. > > The question is, what REAL ADVANTAGE does a bike like a Madone give you, > the rider, over a racing bike of the 1970s? Differences in frame > materials do not constitute an advantage in and of themselves. > Whoa, Steve you need to calm down and mellow out. If my friends or I think a Madone is going to give us an "advantage" and (here's the most important part) IT GETS US RIDING, what's the problem?! OK, may be on paper it doesn't provide an inch of difference. Hey, didn't Jan Heine, whom many here worship his ever word, say so?! If Jan says it doesn't, then we all know it doesn't!
But, my point is my friends and I ride for fun and exercise. OK, some of us, like myself, actually commute. I have a Calfee - carbon, so watch out - and really enjoy it on long rides of 40+ miles. For commuting, I have a very nice steel cross bike with fenders and hopefully one day a rear rack. The point here is my Calfee is my "go- fast" that got me to enjoy riding. It is the same as my old Mercian (damaged in crash), Cinelli (too small, so I sold it) and even my old Fuji Del Rey (Consumers Report "best buy!"). The key here is motivation. If someone starts out on a "racing style" bike and gets into riding, then I say great! So we all don't ride rando bikes. What's the problem? We also don't ride in the same area, condition or time frame. Big deal. If a racer gets you motivated to ride, then yes, there is an advantage. > > Assuming Eddy used a bike that weighed 18-20lbs, today's bikes are > > limited to something like 6.8kg or about 14.9lbs. That 3 to 5 lb > > difference is pretty big. It may mean more to a racer than an average > > overweight weekend warrior. > > OK, let's say a five pounds lighter bike for a rider who might well be > 10 KG overweight or more. How much of an actual advantage is that? > What does it translate to in terms of performance, as opposed to > bragging rights? If you and your pals ride primarily for fun and > fitness, do those missing 3-5 pounds enhance your enjoyment? (It's > certainly hard to see how they enhance your fitness -- that would be > improved by adding weight, not subtracting it.) Will you go faster? If > so, how much faster? And how much difference would that make? > Apples and oranges. Didn't I say that a pro would probably notice the 3 to 5 lb difference that may or may not be to the overweight weekend warrior? > > But, as Patrick stated if it gets someone out on a bike than what's > > not to like?! The bad thing is that because racing style bikes are so > > prevalent, they dominate the market and make it harder for good, > > reliable equipment to be available at a reasonable price. > > So you're saying racing equipment is less expensive? Balderdash. > Whoa, re-read what I road. I said that racing style bikes are so prevalent that they MAKE IT HARDER FOR GOOD RELIABLE EQUIPMENT TO BE AVAILABLE. I then gave examples of the Mavic MA2 rim and silver part in general. > Let's just pick on wheels, shall we? Two thousand for a set of low > spoke count racing wheels, and if you break a spoke you're done, the > wheel isn't turning in the rear triangle. Compare that with a handmade > wheel like what Rich at Riv builds, or what Peter White builds - let's > say, Dura Ace hubs and Open Pro rims, 32 or 36 spokes. Dead reliable > wheels that would still turn if you did break a spoke. > Agree. You erased my statement that I ride 32h wheels build with standard db spokes and regular clincher rims that "anybikeshopusa" can repair if broken. Of course, a few of my friends have fancy carbon wheels and use tubular tires. My take is if it motivates them to ride, do it! > Racing brakes, perhaps? $875 or more for a set of brakes? Yeah, you > shave a few grams. What's a set of Shimano brakes go for? Or Tektros? > Yeah, I'm still using an old Campy Cobalto brake on my Calfee. It is definitely heavier than my friends with the fancy Zero Gs and M5s. But at my weight, so what. > Or maybe let's talk cranks. A thousand bucks for a crankset that maybe > (or maybe not) includes the bottom bracket bearings. How's that compare > with the Sugino Alpina, for example? > Hey, I like the Sugino Alpina and its cousin the Cospea. You won't find me spending that much on a crank. However, on my fancy dancy carbon Calfee, I do have an old Sweet Wings crankset which arguably was one of the first cranksets with outer bearing (it is only on one side). Of course, I paid $80 for the crankset and another $75 for the TA Syrius rings (48/34) which is definitely cheaper than the Sugino. > I was at a rest stop at our club century 2 years ago and I overheard a > guy behind me talking about the upgrade he'd just made to his bike: > carbon handlebars and a carbon stem. It cost him a thousand bucks, but > man, look at how many grams he saved! A thousand bucks for a handlebar > and a stem? As they say in Dublin, "Jesus wept." Yup. One of my friends rides a Merlin ti. He "upgraded" to an Easton carbon h-bar. I think it was $250-300. He was on top of a hill and the wind blew his bike over. On the way home, he heard some cracking sounds and rode "gently." When he got home, he unwrapped is his bars and found it cracked. He tried to warranty it since the bar was brand new. Easton told him it was an "act of god" and wouldn't warranty it. But they did offer him a 20% off discount coupon. He bought an aluminum Ritchey bar...Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
