On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 13:04 -0700, bfd wrote:

> I don't get it what's with all the randonneur worshipping? I know
> people here consider "racing" to be a bad word as it represents all
> that is supposedly wrong with bicycling. Yet, randonneur is consider
> good?!

Yes.  There's very little resemblance between racing and the riding most
of us do, and almost no correspondence between the values of racing and
ours.  

Racing, remember, is a sport where there is one winner and everyone else
is a loser, and a sport where it seems to be well known that the top
performers -- elite athletes who have no resemblance to us at all -- all
cheat.  Randonneuring is done by people just like us, sometimes in fact
us.  It's riding like we do, taken out to the limits.  It rewards self
reliance, and everybody's a winner.

So, which of those two extremes is more worthy of respect?

> 
> What I don't understand is both racing and randonneuring require
> massive amount of time, commitment and training.  You can't do either
> well without putting in the time.

Yes, but if you put in the time, it's possible for an ordinary rider
like me (as opposed to naturally gifted athletes) to do it.  In fact,
I've done it.  I'll do it again.  But on club rides, I ride with the
CCs.  Faster than the CCs are the Bs, the BBs, and the As.  And this
isn't a racing club; most of the A riders aren't fast enough or trained
enough to race, even at the lowest levels.

Put it another way: anybody here who can do a 100 mile ride could do a
200K brevet, if they were interested.

But in the context of this discussion, you're confusing the sport with
the equipment.  When we're discussing bikes, we're discussing the
equipment.  

Why the interest in this type of bicycle?  For one thing, bikes of this
type make it much more comfortable and much easier to do the sort of
rides we do.  

A bike that's designed to be comfortable and easily controllable when
you're very tired is a very pleasant bike to ride on a century.  

A bike that's designed to be ridden in severe weather is a pleasure to
ride in the rain.  

A bike that's designed to be able to carry enough to sustain a rider on
a brevet is equally capable of carrying everything I need to carry on a
winter's day, when it might be 28 degrees at ride start time but it
might get up to 45-50 before we're done.

What is there to not like about all that?

And for another, these bikes actually look like a bicycle.  Unlike just
about everything you find in a LBS today.  

> 
> Further, it also appears to require bikes that can be costly. 

There are quite a few Kogswell P/Rs - configured with drop bars, the "R"
in the name means "Randonneur" - that have been ridden on brevets.  Even
fully tricked out with a top of the line lighting system and the best
handmade wheels money can buy, a P/R cost less to outfit than the
cheapest Madone.  So too will a hand-made custom from most of the
builders you see over at the VSalon.  


> *True*
> racing bikes can cost in excess of $5K to 10K or more, i.e., think top
> of the line Trek Madone, Specialized S-Work Tarmac or even something
> like a Pegoretti Love #3...OK, the last is suppose to be a joke as I
> know there's a bunch of controversy about it :_P. Similarly, a *true*
> rando bike can be just as costly, especially if you ache for something
> French like a Herse or Singer.

You can spend as much as you like on a bike, that's certainly true.  It
doesn't mean you have to.  These days, a crankset on a high-end racing
bike is a thousand bucks, and I'm not sure that includes the bottom
bracket bearings.  I've seen ultra-lightweight racing brakes that cost
more than five hundred bucks a pair.  Wheels go for upwards of a couple
of thousand dollars.  So by your standards, shouldn't you be griping
about club riding bikes, the sort of thing you see posted on the Serotta
forum every day?

By contrast, randonneuring equipment is dirt cheap, even top of the line
equipment. A top of the line randonneur wheel set will be more than a
thousand dollars less expensive than a racing wheel set -- and it will
be far more durable.  You probably won't find carbon bars and carbon
stems and carbon seatposts on a randonneur.  Spending big bucks to shave
grams doesn't make much sense when you're planning to carry a 10 lb load
of clothes and tools and supplies.

> Is the attraction that you can ride a bike that is custom fitted for
> things like racks, lights, fat tires and fenders? Couldn't a cross
> style bike with fenders, lights and racks work just as well? After
> all, you can race/train/rando on just about anything, right? Thanks!

Why would I want a bike intended for cyclocross racing when I don't do
that type of riding, and nothing that makes a bike especially suited for
cyclocross makes it specially suited for anything I do?  And what's
wrong with a custom frame?

I ride centuries, sometimes even 200K brevets.  And on those long rides,
I get plenty tired.  I'm sure there have been centuries where I've been
as tired at the end of the ride as some randonneurs are finishing a 600K
brevet.  I see a lot of benefit in a bike that's comfortable and that is
easy to control when I'm that exhausted.

I sometimes ride at night.  I ride when the weather is dodgy, and am
willing to risk getting caught in the rain.  I like to be comfortable,
and I like to be self sufficient.  That takes a certain amount of stuff.
I don't have a team car following me with supplies, and if I called my
wife to come get me because I had a mechanical I wouldn't ever hear the
end of it.  





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