Yes it is an amazing thing what you all do, I admire that. But isn't contributors previous users?
What I like about the Richard intent, from what I understand, is to make Smalltalk, and Pharo, more visible, more used, and that is the only way I know to bring more contributors. From what I know, Ruby got a lot of more contributors after Rails, which brought a lot of users to the platform. I really would like to contribute some day, in the mean time I will try to support initiatives like the one proposed by Richard, and spread the word as much as I can. On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote: > Do you know how many unique views had PBE last 5 months ? 1000 > Do you know how many contributions PBE had last 5 months ? Zero. Not 100 . > Not even 10. Not even 1... zero > > PBE would be still in Pharo version 1.4 if it was not for me , Stef and > Damien. > > This is not a Pharo problem, all open source software has the same issue. > > We need more people helping, I ported the first 1/3rd of the book from 1.4 > to Pharo 4 just by myself and the other two joined after I was burned out > from the pain. I was disgusted working on PBE . I literally hated Pharo. > Fortunately nothing that a bit of a small break could not fix. > > I was and still I am the most loud critic about the state of > documentation. In the end however what makes open source projects exist is > not users. Users are insignificant. Sorry to say that but is true. It's > contributors that are the life of the project. > > People like Stef made Pharo and even Squeak possible. People like Stef > keep Smalltalk alive. Personally I don't give a damn what users want , I > rather attract only contributors and zero just users. That's enough to keep > Pharo evolving for centuries. > > Stef says that "Pharo is yours" , apparently this easier said than done. I > respect your opinion, I agree with your opinion because I said what you say > years ago. In the end however if you and other users are not willing to > help we will remain at zero commits at least as far as PBE is concerned . > > It's pretty much the same for the other areas of Pharo. > On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 01:26, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormc...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> *Dimitris:* >> >> I agree with much of what you said, but I think it is still possible to >> make step 0 and follow the Pharo path with more easy. :) >> >> Also, https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/ >> lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/PharoTour/PharoTour.html is >> nice too, I didn't know of it. It is the new version of PBE ongoing? I am >> going to take a look at it. >> >> Ben: >> >> Thanks for the links, two of them I didn't know of. I hadn't time to read >> them yet, but I think what I am looking for is something like >> https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes- >> 1b5327ca0740 >> >> "The things we see as important might be a paradigm step too far for >> newcomers." >> >> >> I think the problem for Step 0 it is exactly that. I myself have already >> tried to show the paradigm shift along with all that must be learn to use >> Pharo, and it didn't went well. It is too much to tackle at once. There is >> the language, the environment, the IDE, the paradigm shift, too much... >> >> Nicolai: >> >> The first example from the book provides the first experience you have on >> Pharo, and it uses stuff that is not on the default image (it happened to >> me a long time ago and with a friend more recently). It is frustrating and >> leave the person trying to learn suspicious. I see that the current site >> for the book has a link to the image that should be used while reading the >> book, but it is not very visible and I think the book don't mention >> it. From the Getting Started chapter I count five pages until some code is >> executed (Time now). The problem here is that people usually don't >> understand, yet, the power of the environment, and are eager to see code >> and execute it, and they often get confused with so many different things >> to learn even before the first "Hello World". I can say the first time I >> got PBE I gave up because of this, and I only come back later because I >> persist to learn Smalltalk, and I know some other people who tried to read >> it too and give up for exactly the same reason. >> >> I found the book an excellent reference and source to solidify the >> understanding of Pharo, but I don't like it as a tutorial. >> >> >> *-------* >> >> Look at the Go language site: https://golang.org/, the first thing it >> puts in your face is a way to execute code and a link to a Tour. I don't >> even have to think much before I have executed the Hello World, my hand >> just moved the mouse to the Run button, and even before I noticed I was >> doing the tour. >> >> In my opinion, a good Step 0 would be something like Profstef ( >> http://amber-lang.net/learn.html) as a Tour, going slowly through the >> language aspects, messages types, comparing to other OO languages, showing >> that operator are just messages, then that control flow statements are also >> just messages, creating classes etc, always letting the user execute code >> as she goes on. >> >> After that, the Tour could tell its user to continue it using the image >> and showing the download link. When the user execute Pharo.exe and loads >> the default image the first thing that appears is the Profstef asking if it >> is the first time he is there and if he is continuing the tour from the web >> (if it is someone used to Pharo, he just closes the windows and starts to >> use his new fresh image). It could explains steadily the workspace, the >> transcript, the nautilus and how to make a very simple web application with >> tests. After that it could explain the image, that objects are stored >> (serialized) into it and the image itself consists of the running program >> while the Pharo.exe is the VM. In the end It could point to a tutorial like >> https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes- >> 1b5327ca0740, the PBE and to the many others resources available. >> >> The order of things could change and maybe I had missed something, but >> that is what I can think now. Perhaps this approach is too slow, I don't >> know, but the fast one isn't working for me :( It don't need to be a tour >> also, but something in these lines, like the medium post above but with >> more parts, each describing a little more of Pharo. The idea, in general, >> is to easy the entrance barriers that Pharo has by it's quite different, >> yet powerful, programming model and environment. When I talk to people I >> know that have tried Pharo, that is the biggest problem. >> >> That is just my two cents. :) >> >> And thanks for all the new links :) >> >> Regards, >> Vitor >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:05 PM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr> wrote: >> >> >> >> Le 25/10/16 à 15:05, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit : >> >> PBE is for Pharo version 5, I will give it another look to start porting >> it to Pharo version 6. Will add a git tag and make release for 5. >> >> >> Thanks. >> Yes it would be an immense help. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM p...@highoctane.be <p...@highoctane.be> >> wrote: >> >> There was this book (and some others of the same ink) that was provided >> with my first computer: >> >> http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/ >> Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20(Tandy).pdf >> <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20%28Tandy%29.pdf> >> >> I actually had the french version. http://www. >> colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/ >> Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20(Tandy)%20(French).pdf >> <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20%28Tandy%29%20%28French%29.pdf> >> >> This thing is still sitting near my desk today (I guess it keeps me >> connected to my curious young self or something like that). >> >> I keep on thinking that it would be great to have a Pharo-based version >> of it. >> >> And something like this one for bytecode sets... >> >> http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/ >> EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20(Tandy).pdf >> <http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20%28Tandy%29.pdf> >> >> Phil >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Matteo via Pharo-users < >> pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Matteo <matte...@yahoo.it> >> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> >> >> Cc: >> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:08:21 +0200 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial >> +1 for PBE >> It has been my first smalltalk/Pharo tutorial. >> I'm still using it, as a quick reference. >> >> On October 25, 2016 6:25:08 AM GMT+02:00, monty <mon...@programmer.net> >> wrote: >> >> +1 for PBE. >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:56 AM >> From: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaih...@gmail.com> >> To: "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial >> >> Am 23.10.2016 3:16 nachm. schrieb "Vitor Medina Cruz" >> <vitormc...@gmail.com[mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com]>: >> >> >> I think the MOOC is too much for a tutorial. What I miss today is a good >> written (no videos! Please!) tutorial that teaches just a little of the >> language and give a few guidelines on how to do simple stuff with the >> environment, such as a "Hello World!", creating a class, tests and run stuff. >> >> I thought "pharo by example" provides exactly that. >> What is missing here, from your perspective? >> I learned a lot from it and it helped me to get started to learn smalltalk, >> not only the syntax, but also, doing something the smalltalk way. >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:15 PM, horrido >> <horrido.hobb...@gmail.com[mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com]> wrote: >> >> >> Excellent suggestion! I shall look into it. Thanks. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.html[http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.html] >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> >> >>
