> On Feb 12, 2025, at 2:56 PM, sartesian via groups.io
> <sartesian=earthlink....@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Lets be clear, Moderator A uncritically linked to an article that praises the
> Pope for being against dictators.
That's not true. Sartesian assumes his conclusion without establishing it as
fact: It is well documented that the current Pope speaks out about
dictatorships, including the one he supposedly accommodated as an Argentine
bishop but after the fact, and it is well-established that he publicly supports
the rights of undocumented and stateless people. Is the Pope sincere? I have no
idea and it doesn't matter so long as his appointments of leading clerics in
the US who claim to be pro-immigrant actually aid the effort to protect them
from Trump. Sartesian's accusation of me for Popery serves as the straw man
part of his debaters-trick two-step: A straw man fallacy is followed by an
ad-hominem. I have seen him do it for years but it's a much older than that.
> I respond pointing out how the Pope when he was a bishop wasn't so
> anti-dictatorial. And then because of the long history of sexual predation,
> I indicate that referring positively to the words of the church's current CEO
> involves a degree of denial, of cognitive dissonance, unworthy of a Marxist
> list.
> Moderator A ... yada yada
> Moderator B ...
> Moderator B then tries to blow smoke up everybody's ass ...
> Moderator A claims he's being smeared ...
> Moderator C is going to go Moderators A & B one better and prove that
> Moderator A did not say what we know he said; did not employ "well, what
> about..." to bolster his mud fort.
> In conclusion-- moderator A should fuck off. Moderators B and C have
> equivocated themselves into irrelevance. They can fuck off too.
When Sartesian rejoined marxmail last year, I argued against letting him back
on. The other moderators did not agree with me. But I had looked through the
archives going back more than twenty years after someone sent me a note by
Louis Proyect, the now-deceased founder of the list, where Louis documented
Sartesian's toxic antics. I didn't locate that particular message but found
this one from 2011: In
https://www.mail-archive.com/marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/msg03674.html,
Louis complained about Sartesian's behavior over the preceding decade:
"You have been doing this in one form or another in the 10 years you have been
on this mailing list...The last time you unsubbed ... the level of vituperation
on this mailing list dropped off precipitously. I found myself quite pleased
with this development and will do everything in my power to maintain it."
That's exactly how I felt about Sartesian's previous absence from marxmail. The
archives show a repeating cycle where Sartesian insults someone, often a
moderator, followed by pushback from one or more people, which leads Sartesian
to air a list of grievances, curse someone or some people out, quit the list,
but then come back some years or months later to repeat the cycle. It's like a
bad marriage that goes on for decades. I don't think Sartesian can help
himself. But no moderator to my knowledge has removed his posting privileges,
probably because of his extensive knowledge of some areas of interest to the
list and a well-founded reluctance to purge people, which continues to be a
scourge on the left.
So here we are, in our third decade of Sartesian vituperation. Wasting time
that could be devoted to an activist cause.
Mark
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