Ah! Even better. We are pretty much on the same page then I expect. Regards, Mark _________________________________________________________________ L. Mark Stone, Founder North America's Leading Zimbra VAR/BSP/Training Partner For Companies With Mission-Critical Email Needs
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Alley via mailop" <mailop@mailop.org> To: "mailop" <mailop@mailop.org> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 12:06:18 PM Subject: Re: [mailop] hotmail.com SPF forgot IPv6 Granted, my only point was around message rejection itself with no consideration for other email authentication context. For reference, the [ https://www.m3aawg.org/sites/default/files/m3aawg-email-authentication-recommended-best-practices-09-2020.pdf | M3AAWG BCP section 4 ] this is based off of - On 8/18/2023 10:53 AM, L. Mark Stone via mailop wrote: Got it, thanks. We are concerned about DKIM-replay attacks, so while I now better understand where you are coming from, we would continue to mark such emails as spam and put them in the users' Junk folders. Our view is that reputable senders should be able to manage their DNS accurately, understanding that we are all human and everyone makes mistakes now and then (be kind!). That's why even with a hard SPF fail we mark emails as Spam instead of discarding them outright. Thanks again for helping me better understand your approach here, Mark _________________________________________________________________ L. Mark Stone, Founder North America's Leading Zimbra VAR/BSP/Training Partner For Companies With Mission-Critical Email Needs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Alley via mailop" [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | <mailop@mailop.org> ] To: "mailop" [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | <mailop@mailop.org> ] Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 11:15:07 AM Subject: Re: [mailop] hotmail.com SPF forgot IPv6 Well, if you want to accept the overwhelming amount of DMARC passing mail signed with DKIM (which these Hotmail messages are, because they are signed with valid and aligned DKIM)... then you definitely shouldn't be rejecting it based solely on the SPF result. - Mark Alley On 8/18/2023 9:54 AM, L. Mark Stone via mailop wrote: Hi Mark, Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your inference, but are you saying we shouldn't reject based on a hard fail SPF record? Thanks, Mark _________________________________________________________________ L. Mark Stone, Founder North America's Leading Zimbra VAR/BSP/Training Partner For Companies With Mission-Critical Email Needs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Alley via mailop" [ [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailto:mailop@mailop.org ] | [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | <mailop@mailop.org> ] ] To: "mailop" [ [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailto:mailop@mailop.org ] | [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | <mailop@mailop.org> ] ] Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 10:33:50 AM Subject: Re: [mailop] hotmail.com SPF forgot IPv6 This will definitely showcase how many receivers are still rejecting based on SPF failure by itself. There's already many threads on Reddit about this from regular consumers experiencing bounces they don't know what to do with, it's actually quite sad reading some of them. - Mark Alley On 8/18/2023 9:16 AM, Laurent S. via mailop wrote: Aloha hotmail, It seems since you recently changed your SPF and switched from ~all to -all. It would have been great if you didn't remove at the same time your IPv6 ranges from it. It seems the include:spf.protection.outlook.com was removed during the change. You might want to include it back. We are starting to receive quite a few tickets that our clients suddenly don't receive some mails from hotmail.com Best regards, Laurent _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list [ [ [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailto:mailop@mailop.org ] | [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailto:mailop@mailop.org ] ] | [ [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailto:mailop@mailop.org ] | [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailop@mailop.org ] ] ] [ [ [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] | [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] ] | [ [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] | [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] ] ] _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list [ [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailto:mailop@mailop.org ] | [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailop@mailop.org ] ] [ [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] | [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] ] _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list [ [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailto:mailop@mailop.org ] | [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailop@mailop.org ] ] [ [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] | [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] ] _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailop@mailop.org ] [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list [ mailto:mailop@mailop.org | mailop@mailop.org ] [ https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop | https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ] _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
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