While I agree 100 percent that Eloquence is the only speech that is
efficient enough to actually get things done with, I've
never been particularly fond of it. Not sure that makes sense given that
I've used Glen more or less exclusively for the past
12 years or so, but on the whole, I think Eloquence is seriously
over-rated. True, it's the only thing I use on the PC side,
but that's out of necessity, not because I find it pleasant or anything.
I don't use the RealSpeak voices on the mac either,
though. I even bought the acapella voices, but still find myself only
using Alex as a general rule. So, while I can see both
sides of the coin on the eloquence thing, it's nothing I'd get all
excited about if Apple ever incorporated it. In most
cases, Alex is responsive enough for my needs on the mac. I'd love to see
a female equivelent of Alex, though. Alice,
perhaps? It's just that when it comes to those higher quality voices, I
find the female ones slightly easier to understand in
most cases.
-----Original Message-----
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel McGee
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 9:39 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: what Voiceover bugs people want or are hoping will be fixed
or squashed in Mountain Lion?
eloquence 100% is for me. If I had this, then I wouldn't be using windows
anymore there's something about the voice that I
can listen to it and I don't get tired of it. I have a hearing impairment
and find it is more clear understandable in words
than these silly nuance voices. I don't want that to be offending to
anyone who uses the nuance real speak voices but for me,
I just don't understand them clearly, to slow no matter how much I speed
them up I can't understand them when they are really
fast anyway and lastly too slow even when I can follow them.
Ohand caps lock gets my vote too.
If the day comes where Apple have eloquence added to the list of VO
voices, will be the day where I differently upgrade my
OS!
How do others feel about eloquence being added?
You got me started on this one! LOL
Daniel
On 3 Jul 2012, at 12:47, Chris Moore wrote:
I guess that makes sense. I suppose that is the charm of VO, it can be
used in so many different ways.
If I am using my iMac, then I tend to use the numeric keypad., and if I
am using my iOS devices I use quick nav via a
bluetooth keyboard, and when using my Macbook I use the track pad.
Caps lock gets my vote too then if anyone at Apple is listening.
HOw about built in OCR anyone? or would anyone like to see eloquence
added to the voice list too?
Chris
On 3 Jul 2012, at 12:18, Garth Humphreys wrote:
I prefer not to have to take my fingers off the home keys. It is not so
much with the arrow keys that I would want to use
the caps lock key but with the other vo commands. I can't help think that
the caps lock key is a complete waste of prime
keyboard real-estate, if you know what I mean. It is much more efficient
to my way of thinking to just move your little
finger to the caps lock key as compared to either removing your left or
right hand from it's home keys to press the current
VO modifiers.
Garth
iblindtech.com
On 03/07/2012, at 8:39 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
Well with any luck Apple may head in this direction, as they appear to
have got the message with iOS 6 that zoom and
voice over at the same time would be beneficial. If it was improved and
there were better contrast colour schemes, I may
consider using it myself. I sometimes fire up ZoomText on my work PC
when using JAWS to sometimes find that button within a
web page that JAWS can't see or a dialog window that JAWS refuses to
read.
So where would you see using the caps lock over using quick nav?
Thanks
Chris
On 3 Jul 2012, at 10:31, Garth Humphreys wrote:
There are a few bugs when zoomed to high levels, i.e., more than 14X
or so. If you have VO running and zoom set to
follow the keyboard focus you will find that the command tab to switch
between apps becomes unreliable and navigating the
menu bar with the arrow keys is also unreliable. Also I don't like the
way it tracks and works with reading text. I'd like
better colour options and keyboard commands to adjust them, or at least
for the invert brightness keyboard command not to
conflict with a Voice Over command. You would think that Apple would be
able to sort out keyboard command conflicts between
two of their own accessibility utilities. I am sure there are work
arounds for some of these but a work around isn't the same
as fixing the problem. For example the menu navigation issue I mentioned
does not occur if you use swipes on the trackpad
with trackpad commander to navigate the menu. It only happens with the
arrow keys - strange but there you are.
If I used it regularly I would probably come across more of the
issues. It really doesn't seem to me that apple intended
the two utilities to work together or at least that this was an edge
case. It would seem to me that they expected people to
use either option exclusively and if so, they are probably right. Most
people probably do use one or the other.
I'd also love to see the safari busy issue buried deep.
The addition of the ability to set the caps lock key to act as the VO
modifier would also be great.
Garth
iblindtech.com
On 03/07/2012, at 6:48 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
What improvements would you like fixed in particular when it comes
to zoom?
On 3 Jul 2012, at 09:44, Garth Humphreys wrote:
I'd love to see some improvements to the way VO works with Zoom and
just some improvements to Zoom in general. I
mostly don't use Zoom on my Mac but this only because it is so poor when
compared to things like ZoomText in the windows
world. It is probably great if you don't need to use Voice Over or if you
only need a little enlargement but it falls
completely short for me.
Garth
iblindtech.com
On 03/07/2012, at 6:26 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
Riccardo,
Actually that is what I was hinting at to be honest, as i feel the
method of selecting text within Safari is rather
sloppy. You can also navigate by line within iOS, so hoped that feature
would come across to OS X. Navigating by line is
also useful when trying to read pages that have been styled into columns
via CSS instead of a table. This can be done in
JAWS quite nicely.
Chris
On 3 Jul 2012, at 00:11, Ricardo Walker wrote:
Hi,
I doubt you will see the reading by line with the down arrow.
That would radically change the way VO navigates the
web, and I'm not sure it would be for the better. It would be selecting
text easier though.
Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info
On Jul 2, 2012, at 6:37 PM, Chris Moore
<apple.geek.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmmm I remember a while back putting a list of 15 improvements.
I can't remember them all now, so perhaps I have
just learnt to live without them. I did report them to Apple though as
bugs and feature enhancements.
The VoiceOver busy is the biggest annoyance which is caused by
the pathetic slow buffering system voice over uses.
So I would like to see that rewritten from the ground up. There are a
few random performance bugs that happen now and then
which require me to switch voice over off then back on again. So overall
performance could do with being improved.
I would also like to know what web page I am looking at when
switching between tabs, being told that is an HTML
page is not exactly helpful. I would also like to navigate line by line
just by pressing the down arrow or up key. VO still
needs a bit of work when reporting how many HMTL elements are on a web
page, some windows screen readers seem to find more
tables and headings than VO, especially in the buggy rotor.
I would like the ability to edit form fields in a PDF with
Preview, but I believe this is coming in the next
Mountain Lion release (according to Apple's website).
I would appreciate MIDI event editing in GarageBand, and a huge
update to iWork. There just is not enough
accessible productive software on the Mac. There is more to using a Mac
than just Skype and Mail surely?
Not sure if that bug still exists when using the real speak
voices where the pitch used to shift up and down
randomly. I stopped using those voices as it became too annoying.
I would also like the ability to edit voice over's dictionary.
For example if you type third as in the number 3
followed by the letters r and d, you get 3rd (three road), surely this
should be a third? So I think the ability to edit
some of VO's assumptions would be nice, or maybe VO should grow up and
become a tad more intelligent. I would like more
control over how VO reads out numbers too.
Maybe developers should also be given the option to name what VO
calls an HTML area, as something else? For
example when using adium the chat window is called an HTML area, am sure
a chat window or conversation window would be more
meaningful.
Last but not least, I find VO a bit slow when first entering the
iTunes store. The page takes a while to render.
Well actually visually it does not, but VO seems to think it does.
Actually come to mention it when VO says something is
busy, a sighted person can still move the mouse and perform the action
they require, it is just VO's buffer which is busy.
I spotted another bug today too. When ordering a smart case for
my iPad, VO was unable to read out the colour
options. When trying to select a colour, VO simply said "space radio
button" for each of the 6 colours. The work around
seemed to be select a colour, go back to the top of the screen and read
out the description to see if the default green had
changed. Or look in the basket and hope to god you have not selected
pink. I eventually performed this task via the Apple
Store app on my iPhone which performed perfectly.
Chris
On 2 Jul 2012, at 19:16, Daniel McGee wrote:
Hi all, a while ago on this list I saw someone mention that
they would like so and so bug to be fixed in Mountain
Lion.
I would just really like to start a discussion on if there are
not many enhancements to Voiceover in the next OS,
then what bugs would you like fixed and hope Apple has done there job
with it.
I'll go 1st.
For me its safari. two things for me.
1. Now and then when I go back a page with CMD left bracket
Voiceover doesn't announce my list of headings or
links that I have set in VO utility.
2. continuing this previous page thing, because I don't always
know when the page is fully loaded when going back,
I get the lovely "Voiceover Busy!" Not!
This is using Lion V7.4 and Safari 5.1.7
So what are yours?
I hope this will become an interesting topic because I'm
interested to see what people can come up with and I'm
sure there will be some good ones!
So everyone, the dance floor is yours! LOL
Daniel
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