Hi, I get your point but, how does using voiceover identify your disability? I mean, you could have a print impaired or be blind after all. Thats like saying opening garageband makes you a musician. :)
Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Apr 3, 2012, at 2:34 PM, Chris Blouch <cblo...@aol.com> wrote: > Well, I'm not sure it would pass the 'yuck' test for many people if they > found out Apple was identifying their disability by probing their device and > not asking permission. Personally identifiable or not. In the states the FTC > just put out > > http://www.ftc.gov/os/2010/12/101201privacyreport.pdf > > which seems to imply the mere act of collecting data about a user without > permission is verboten. In Europe privacy is considered a human right and so > the rules around what you can gather without asking is even narrower. But > this is straying far from the topic of all things Apple :) > > CB > > On 4/3/12 12:10 PM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: >> Chris, >> >> Its anonymous, Apple are not probing your computer, they are probing a >> computer. There is in law, a difference. >> >> Your example of what you were doing can cause issues legally as cookies and >> other such internet based tools collect data which is personally identifiable >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Neil Barnfather >> >> Talks List Administrator >> Twitter @neilbarnfather >> >> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your >> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com >> >> URL: - www.talknav.com >> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >> >> >> >> On 2 Apr 2012, at 20:05, Chris Blouch wrote: >> >> I think if it came out that Apple was probing your system to figure out if >> you are using assistive technology (which probably means you have a >> disability) and did this without asking you first, the press and various >> advocate organizations would have a field day around violation of personal >> privacy. But, I'm not a lawyer and, in this case, it's all conjecture. I do >> know that I was contacted by some folks from a large web advertising company >> about my coding an MSAA detector on web browsers. It eventually got shot >> down by their privacy folks for the aforementioned reason. So my opinion is >> not without some basis. >> >> CB >> >> On 4/2/12 2:57 PM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: >>> Chris, >>> >>> Its anonymously collected, so would breach no privacy laws, none that I >>> know of... >>> >>> I honestly and firmly believe that they would collect this data. Why on >>> Earth wouldn't they? >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Neil Barnfather >>> >>> Talks List Administrator >>> Twitter @neilbarnfather >>> >>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your >>> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com >>> >>> URL: - www.talknav.com >>> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >>> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2 Apr 2012, at 16:46, Chris Blouch wrote: >>> >>> I suspect doing this in today's heightened awareness of consumer tracking >>> and privacy, probing people's machines to discover if they were using >>> voiceover would be full of legal landmines. Many do not want to >>> self-identify as having a disability or have that info pried out of their >>> system config and a company that did that secretly or otherwise would >>> probably have a PR mess once it was found out. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> On 3/31/12 8:42 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >>>> this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for >>>> apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea. >>>> >>>> so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you >>>> purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to >>>> fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option >>>> for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, >>>> or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind >>>> users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in >>>> voiceover and app support. >>>> >>>> just a thought on this. >>>> >>>> lew >>>> >>>> On 31 Mar 2012, at 10:53, Scott Howell wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ricardo, >>>>> >>>>> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time >>>>> a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't >>>>> ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are >>>>> buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty >>>>> good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the >>>>> exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think >>>>> at times they are not. >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a >>>>>> chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or >>>>>> efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the >>>>>> Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. >>>>>> But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or >>>>>> leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what >>>>>> I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to >>>>>> iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to >>>>>> write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like >>>>>> this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without >>>>>> feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or >>>>>> complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things >>>>>> like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the >>>>>> user experience of a product. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ricardo Walker >>>>>> rica...@appletothecore.info >>>>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore >>>>>> www.appletothecore.info >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur<igandra...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> HI there, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the >>>>>>> trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac >>>>>>> you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case >>>>>>> with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages >>>>>>> contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, >>>>>>> especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets >>>>>>> faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and >>>>>>> less reliable >>>>>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and >>>>>>> from time to time creating some more official letters so these >>>>>>> differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides >>>>>>> of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more >>>>>>> efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about >>>>>>> 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out >>>>>>> for discussion. >>>>>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the >>>>>>> best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows >>>>>>> version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for >>>>>>> me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite >>>>>>> the hurdles. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hope this helps a bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ioana >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please check out my cd on www.ioanagandrabur.com on iTunes and most >>>>>>> online stores. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello there, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>>>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>>>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>>>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>>>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>>>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>>>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Marc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi<gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Mark >>>>>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a >>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out >>>>>>>>> forms. I >>>>>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables >>>>>>>>> were not >>>>>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that >>>>>>>>> choice >>>>>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer >>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I >>>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>>>>>> Regards Gigi >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau<marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since >>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at >>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every >>>>>>>>>> five >>>>>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could >>>>>>>>>> answer >>>>>>>>>> because of other questions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers >>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -Marc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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