CV, Well, collecting data, I personally said yes to the bit that said, can Apple collect, xyz, data in diagnostic form… There is a wide range of things that it says this includes, and you can be pretty confident it includes accessibility data.
its all anonymous anyway. Ultimately though, I have no grounds to complain, as with most, I agreed to this during sign up. If you, on your Mac, go to the Apple menu, then about this mac, there is a section in the Universal Access section which is a long list of feature sets of the accessibility services in OSx. Its a simple on / off list, yes / no, I bet a lot that this list is part of the data that Apple collect about my machine. thus, yep, right there in my list, Voice Over, yes. Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 3 Apr 2012, at 19:34, Chris Blouch wrote: > Well, I'm not sure it would pass the 'yuck' test for many people if they > found out Apple was identifying their disability by probing their device and > not asking permission. Personally identifiable or not. In the states the FTC > just put out > > http://www.ftc.gov/os/2010/12/101201privacyreport.pdf > > which seems to imply the mere act of collecting data about a user without > permission is verboten. In Europe privacy is considered a human right and so > the rules around what you can gather without asking is even narrower. But > this is straying far from the topic of all things Apple :) > > CB > > On 4/3/12 12:10 PM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: >> Chris, >> >> Its anonymous, Apple are not probing your computer, they are probing a >> computer. There is in law, a difference. >> >> Your example of what you were doing can cause issues legally as cookies and >> other such internet based tools collect data which is personally identifiable >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Neil Barnfather >> >> Talks List Administrator >> Twitter @neilbarnfather >> >> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your >> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com >> >> URL: - www.talknav.com >> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >> >> >> >> On 2 Apr 2012, at 20:05, Chris Blouch wrote: >> >> I think if it came out that Apple was probing your system to figure out if >> you are using assistive technology (which probably means you have a >> disability) and did this without asking you first, the press and various >> advocate organizations would have a field day around violation of personal >> privacy. But, I'm not a lawyer and, in this case, it's all conjecture. I do >> know that I was contacted by some folks from a large web advertising company >> about my coding an MSAA detector on web browsers. It eventually got shot >> down by their privacy folks for the aforementioned reason. So my opinion is >> not without some basis. >> >> CB >> >> On 4/2/12 2:57 PM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: >>> Chris, >>> >>> Its anonymously collected, so would breach no privacy laws, none that I >>> know of... >>> >>> I honestly and firmly believe that they would collect this data. Why on >>> Earth wouldn't they? >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Neil Barnfather >>> >>> Talks List Administrator >>> Twitter @neilbarnfather >>> >>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your >>> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com >>> >>> URL: - www.talknav.com >>> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >>> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2 Apr 2012, at 16:46, Chris Blouch wrote: >>> >>> I suspect doing this in today's heightened awareness of consumer tracking >>> and privacy, probing people's machines to discover if they were using >>> voiceover would be full of legal landmines. Many do not want to >>> self-identify as having a disability or have that info pried out of their >>> system config and a company that did that secretly or otherwise would >>> probably have a PR mess once it was found out. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> On 3/31/12 8:42 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >>>> this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for >>>> apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea. >>>> >>>> so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you >>>> purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to >>>> fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option >>>> for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, >>>> or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind >>>> users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in >>>> voiceover and app support. >>>> >>>> just a thought on this. >>>> >>>> lew >>>> >>>> On 31 Mar 2012, at 10:53, Scott Howell wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ricardo, >>>>> >>>>> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time >>>>> a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't >>>>> ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are >>>>> buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty >>>>> good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the >>>>> exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think >>>>> at times they are not. >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a >>>>>> chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or >>>>>> efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the >>>>>> Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. >>>>>> But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or >>>>>> leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what >>>>>> I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to >>>>>> iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to >>>>>> write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like >>>>>> this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without >>>>>> feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or >>>>>> complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things >>>>>> like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the >>>>>> user experience of a product. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ricardo Walker >>>>>> rica...@appletothecore.info >>>>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore >>>>>> www.appletothecore.info >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur<igandra...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> HI there, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the >>>>>>> trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac >>>>>>> you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case >>>>>>> with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages >>>>>>> contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, >>>>>>> especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets >>>>>>> faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and >>>>>>> less reliable >>>>>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and >>>>>>> from time to time creating some more official letters so these >>>>>>> differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides >>>>>>> of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more >>>>>>> efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about >>>>>>> 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out >>>>>>> for discussion. >>>>>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the >>>>>>> best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows >>>>>>> version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for >>>>>>> me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite >>>>>>> the hurdles. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hope this helps a bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ioana >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please check out my cd on www.ioanagandrabur.com on iTunes and most >>>>>>> online stores. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello there, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>>>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>>>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>>>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>>>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>>>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>>>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Marc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi<gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Mark >>>>>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a >>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out >>>>>>>>> forms. I >>>>>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables >>>>>>>>> were not >>>>>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that >>>>>>>>> choice >>>>>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer >>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I >>>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>>>>>> Regards Gigi >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau<marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since >>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at >>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every >>>>>>>>>> five >>>>>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could >>>>>>>>>> answer >>>>>>>>>> because of other questions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers >>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -Marc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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