Dear Jürgen, On 2016-12-13, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Am Montag, den 12.12.2016, 22:12 +0000 schrieb Guenter Milde:
>> Unfortunately, with LuaTeX ... >> the padding of guillemets seems to be "sticky". > That's https://github.com/reutenauer/polyglossia/issues/68 Yes, so it is hopefully worked on. Especially as we cannot do much to change the situation (except for preferring Babel with French + other language). >> I suppose, there is no clear preference (similar to the situation in >> German >> with »«, «», or „“ for the primary quotes) > English inner quotes is apparently most used. Then, the lists # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English_usage_of_quotation_marks # http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anf%C3%BChrungszeichen#Andere_Sprachen are outdated or wrong. In any case, I hope we can agree that the combination « “ ” » should become a style option. I propose to keep the name "french" for the existing style (after all, guillemets are called "french quotation marks", "französische Anführungszeichen", or "Guillemets français" as opposed to "guillemets anglais". The new style could be called "spanish" or "italian": En italien on préfère les «guillemets français» (sans espace) au premier niveau et les “guillemets anglais” au deuxième niveau. --- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillemet#En_italien Alternatively, we could ditch the name "french" and call them italien: « » “ ” swiss: « » ‹ › Whether the default setting in lib/languages uses the French/Swiss or French/Italian/Spanish style, should be decided by the natives. >> Why not using literal Unicode characters in the TeX source for all >> non-TeX-font documents: >> • no difference with Babel > The specific babel macros (e.g., \og, \fg for French) should be used. This is not required, if the Babel configuration command \frenchbsetup{og=«, fg=»} is included after the \usepackage{babel} call. (This works for all input encodings that support » and «, i.e. it is sure to use for non-TeX fonts.) > And it does not break documents that make quote chars active (for other > purposes). >> However, we need "hardcoded" spaces for text export (copy to external >> source), HTML and possibly as workaround for the single guillemet with >> Babel. > I don't know. Babel does not do it, and nobody seems to care. At least the polyglossia people cared. So, IMO we should add spaces for double *and single* guillements if the text language is French in HTML and text-export. Whether a workaround or a bug report to Babel-French is better, I don't know. Considering >> > https://github.com/reutenauer/polyglossia/issues/141 and a second bug only concerning Babel: >> With Babel-French, a narrow no-break space and the Babel-inserted >> space around double guillemet add up (!). >> With Polyglossia, "hard coded narrow no-break spaces" are ignored. (OK) it seems more safe not to use "hard coded" spaces in the LaTeX source. Günter
