On 10/24/2009 11:11 AM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
I don't understand your concerns: Whether eLyXer's approach is the
right one to generate HTML out of a LyX file or not doesn't currently
matter.
The fact is that we currently don't have a feature that generates
HTML. Our native HTML export is, strictly spoken, currently vapor
ware. We currently don't have something better than eLyXer so why are
you opposed to it?
First of all, I am sick and effing tired of these sorts of remarks about
native HTML output. I expect it from Alex, but not from you. I did a
good bit of work on that, then had to stop due to severe back problems
and serious personal loss, not to mention teaching, advising, and
research, just like a lot of other people around here, not to mention
doing my best to fix 1.6 bugs. And I am not getting any help with HTML
output, either, am I? What I'm getting is a bunch of whining and
complaining from you and someone who can't be bothered to do anything
that isn't his own idea. And yet, even with the very little work I've
done, trunk already produces perfectly respectable HTML output in many
cases. The big exception is math and graphics, and those just need a bit
of time. There's no problem of principle there, just my own ignorance
about those subsystems---which is where I could really use help. There
is, in fact, a real problem that remains to be addressed, and it will
need some thought. I think I know how to handle it, but I'm not sure.
I'd hoped to be able to borrow how elyxer deals with this issue, but it
doesn't deal with it. So I have to figure that out myself. When I get time.
As for why I and many others are opposed to adding elyxer to svn, we are
opposed to adding something to LyX svn that we will then have to
maintain and that no-one in the current development team wants to
maintain. (I for one do not want anything to do with that code.) We
think adding HTML export is worthwhile, even though very few of us have
any use for it---I actually have no use for it---but we are certain that
the approach taken by elyxer is wrong, as we have tried time and again
to explain. Why does that matter? Well, first, because we would care
about doing things the right way just on principle, even if we did not
have worries about maintainability, *because we take pride in what LyX
is*. This makes us think that anyone who does care about HTML export
should get on board with the right approach, and we are led to wonder
about the motivation of people who do care and who yet insist upon doing
things their own way.
Moreover, since LyX will have HTML output at some point soon, we do not
see the point of adding elyxer to svn only then to remove it as
redundant or unmaintained.
But the most obvious question is this one: What precisely is the point
of adding elyxer to the svn tree? There is no interaction between it and
any of the LyX code except configure.py and one of the scripts, i.e., no
more interaction than any other converter. It was once suggested that
maybe it would encourage Alex to get involved, but he has repeatedly
made clear that he has no interest in doing anything else with LyX,
since he has (inter alia) no interest in learning C++. None of us have
any interest in touching his code, either. So why one tree?
Packaging is of course a different issue. But is LyX a dependency of
elyxer or not? Alex insists it shouldn't be. That, indeed, is supposed
to be a large part of the point: elxyer can do its thing even if LyX
isn't installed. (See his last umpteen massages, passim.) I myself still
do not see why this is supposed to be at all helpful, but that's his
view. If so, then, on Linux anyway, elyxer should not be packaged with
LyX and should not even include LyX as a dependency. So again, why one
tree? You, of course, can do as you please with your packaging. But if
that is where the issue is, then that is where the issue is: at the
level of packaging.
Of course, I am all too aware that I'm probably just too stupid to
understand. And I'm utterly inflexible, not a team player, right? I've
never done anything for LyX, never worked together with anyone, never
fixed bugs in code that doesn't matter to me, never commented on other
people's code, never set aside my own ideas for a better suggestion of
someone else's. I spend no time on the user's list answering questions,
and I'm totally unresponsive to bug reports and enhancement requests. Right?
Richard
