Family Deaths Under Hitler
Brother of Sora Ivry Maltz
Faga Maltz Pasternak, her husband (Motachuh Pasternak), and seven children
Sora Angelski
Esther Maltz
Abraham Maltz
Beryl Weisglass
Pincus Weisglass
Rebecca Weisglass, and son
Nathan Hopengarten's son
Beinha Hopengarten
Chaia Hopengarten Belchatofsky
Israel Belchatofsky's (Sol Bell's) wife and son
Faga Hopengarten
Karl Hopfengarten, and son
Salomon Israel Hopengarten, prisoner number: 72547, born
1921-12-12, in Warschau
Benjamin Hopfengarten
Esther Hopfengarten, husband, and three children
Total: 31
Those 31 people are the reasons that Maltz (my grandmother’s line) and
Hopengarten family members alive today in Israel and the United States so
strongly advocate for the safety of Jews. To us, it is personal. I don’t take
kindly to the idea that “From the River to the Sea, Palestine should be free
(of Jews).” Jews have learned the hard way that good will and general consensus
on international standards of behavior is not enough. Never again.
“Although there is no <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consensus>
consensus over the extent to which anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic, anti-Zionism
can sometimes be indistinguishable from anti-Semitism in its expression, at
times employing anti-Semitic tropes or having a marginalizing effect on Jews.”
Zionism | Definition, History, Movement,
<https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zionism> & Ideology | Britannica
Fred Hopengarten
6 Willarch Road
From: Lincoln [mailto:lincoln-boun...@lincolntalk.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Sheffi
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2025 1:48 PM
To: Lincoln Talk
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] A reminder…and a shout out to the hosts
I appreciate your email, and I wish that we had consensus on equal rights for
the Jewish people, but no, we are not there yet as a town.
The flyer for Mr Low's speaker last month called Zionism (the equal right of
Jews as an ethnoreligious minority to self-determine in their ancestral
homeland) "a modern expression of neocolonialism and fascism." In my original
synopses of the movies GRALTA is presenting, I made clear how all these movies
specifically oppose equal the Jewish right of self-determination, the Jewish
right to seek political power, the Jewish right to self-defense, and so on.
That's why I've been persistent in opening up this topic, because I am seeking
consensus on Jewish equal rights, and we do not have it.
<https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aanNoZWZmaUBnbWFpbC5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=5ad8fbdf-7977-4af7-90b1-7e4f69f4fccb>
ᐧ
On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 1:20 PM RAandBOB <raand...@earthlink.net> wrote:
There needs to be no discussion about whether Jews deserve the same rights as
other human beings. There’s no debate there: they do.
The state of Israel however is not a person, it’s a country. There are
currently certain rules of engagement that people would like to see apply to
all countries. Even the United States does not abide by all those rules, but
people would like to see Israel (and the United States) abide by the rules that
were developed by a consortium of the world’s nations.
Ruth Ann
(She, her, hers)
On Jan 3, 2025, at 12:30 PM, Jonathan Sheffi <jshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hang on a minute. Let me make sure I've got this straight.
A free flowing discussion of geopolitical matters happening 7,000 miles away
belongs on Lincoln Talk because anything goes, but when it comes to discussing
whether Jews (in Lincoln and elsewhere) deserve equal rights to other human
beings, we suddenly need to take it offline?
<https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aanNoZWZmaUBnbWFpbC5jb20%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=19f8214d-0466-4906-a337-a31bce029525>
ᐧ
On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 10:00 AM Sara Mattes <samat...@gmail.com> wrote:
LT has been around for a while now.
It has survived and thrived and served our community well, in all its
functions- sales, free stuff, announcements or events( political and otherwise)
here and around us, appeals for causes, and yes, sometimes contentious debate.
The moderators have juggled competing demands and pressures.
They have blocked certain posts and posters for a “ time out.”
When your opinion is blocked, you are not happy- trust me, I know from personal
experience.
It is easy for a subscriber ( you are here voluntarily) to opt out of certain
posts and/ or posters.
It is the “delete” button.
Scroll through and decide what to open, to read.
You are not forced to read or participate.
The Moderators, in my observation, have erred on the side of free flowing
speech, and let readers take responsibility for opting in or out.
I for one, am glad to have this community forum, in all its iterations, and
would hate to see it change.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 3, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Jonathan Sheffi <jshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
I disagree. Political event invites inherently contain political statements
(that's how we got into this mess to begin with!). Therefore they need to go to
the new political channel along with the discussion around them.
On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 08:33 Paul Shorb <paul.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
My votes:
Some version of suggestion #1 could be OK; I defer to the judgment of the LT
moderators.
Suggestion #2 seems unnecessary. LT seems like a reasonable place to simply
post notices of upcoming events that are aimed at Lincoln residents, even if
they concern topics outside of Lincoln, and I'd rather not have to subscribe to
and monitor a separate thing. However, if the LT moderators (or someone else)
is willing to go to the trouble of setting up that separate thing and
explaining and enforcing what goes in which channel, OK with me.
- Paul Shorb
On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 8:00 AM June L Matthews <matth...@mit.edu> wrote:
I support this proposal.
June Matthews
From: Lincoln <lincoln-boun...@lincolntalk.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Sheffi
Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2025 10:34 PM
To: Lincoln Talk <lincoln@lincolntalk.org>
Subject: [LincolnTalk] Moving geopolitics off of Lincoln Talk – permanently
When discussions about Israel and the rights of Jewish people started, I was
personally quite reluctant to engage. I did not believe that politics belonged
on Lincoln Talk, especially political issues that happen outside the borders of
the town of Lincoln. I miss the emails about bake sales and animal sightings
and used couches. Heck, I even miss the HCA discussions.
I would like us to bring this list back to its original purpose: to serve the
residents of Lincoln. Not Israel, Gaza, Syria, Iran, Russia, Ukraine, China, or
Taiwan. In my personal opinion, not US politics either. I therefore would like
to make a specific policy proposal to the owners and moderators of Lincoln Talk.
1. A permanent ban on all discussion of geopolitical issues. This would
apply equally to the rest of the world, and perhaps even the parts of the USA
outside our 7,000 person town.
2. This would include invitations to events in Lincoln if they focus on
matters outside of the town. Ergo, no invitations to organize for a
presidential candidate, no invitations to discuss the Middle East or Ukraine or
anywhere else.
Implementation of this policy requires two things as far as I can tell:
A. The consent of the moderators to enforce this ban uniformly across all
non-Lincoln political matters.
B. Updates to the Lincoln Talk FAQ
<https://5a55e4ca.streaklinks.com/CQnB7pxOjvIKmH9_lATsVewz/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lincolntalk.org%2Ffaq>
and Rules
<https://5a55e4ca.streaklinks.com/CQnB7pxNDef5uqkdvQ809zEB/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lincolntalk.org%2Frules-and-policies>
& Policies. May I suggest the following amendments:
Is my message an attempt to draw on the resources of my community? In other
words, if you live in Lincoln and you’re asking for help from or providing
information to your community, then your message is probably on topic even if
the focus isn't on Lincoln itself. For example, if you’re inviting people to a
national political event, asking your neighbors how they’re handling some
aspect of the state tax form, or looking for the best route to Logan Airport,
it's probably on topic even if the focus is not Lincoln.
Does my message avoid changing the subject? When you reply to a message and you
change the focus substantially, you may be going off topic. For example, if a
list member posts a message inviting neighbors to a national political event,
and you reply with a message that focuses on national politics instead of
neighbors, you may not be staying on topic.
I recognize that for some people, there is a genuine desire for virtual and
in-person discussions about national and global politics. I suggest that we
start a second mailing list from scratch, and everyone who wants to talk about
politics opts into it. Call it lincoln-geopolitics perhaps. All event
invitations and discussions of non-Lincoln politics go there, with the LT
moderators redirecting as necessary.
I realize this is a change, and not everyone may be comfortable with it, but I
believe that moving our geopolitical event invitations and discussions to a new
dedicated forum will help us restore the Lincoln Talk we all love.
Jonathan
<~WRD0000.jpg>
ᐧ
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