I absolutely agree with Israel re: free software solutions. I became involved in Kibo due to freedom and will remain so as long as we are committed to freedom whenever/wherever we can be.
Emily On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:36 PM, Israel <isr...@torios.org> wrote: > Hi, > This is especially true if we have our own mail server that we can ensure is > up to date with the latest security patches, etc.. and of course using open > source programs will ensure our freedom (they cannot claim our e-mails are > their property, since it is our server) > That is the main concern I have with using proprietary solutions. A good > 'real-world' example is purchasing a digital movie from Amazon. You 'own' > it, but you cannot easily download your content and watch it without > internet and burn it to a DVD for use where there is no internet > connectivity. And of course if Amazon ever tanks, you do not own it any > longer. > With our own service we could (with the correct authority, of course) > download and archive a section of the mailing list in order to catch up, or > re-read important e-mails, or to have security in legal cases, or whatever > else we may need. Plus if you have it on the computer you can use grep, > sed, awk, etc... which are all fantastic libre tools :) > > > On 01/22/2015 09:52 AM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: > > What you mention in terms of private and public communications. This is > where a mailing list is good and the archive remains private and internal. > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Israel <isr...@torios.org> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> I just thought I'd throw in a few bits here. >> I don't really care how you all want to do things in management, etc... >> As long as, when it comes down to it, I can just do my own work with only >> the customer's specific needs/design/etc.. as the constraints. >> I think some private form of communication is essential for a business, as >> well as public. >> You all can set this up however is good an right. >> >> I would like for our communications not to be owned by a proprietary >> company... I'd rather them be public than that (personal idealogical views). >> But if you all need to use a proprietary company I will not leave, or get >> upset at you. >> We already use G+ which is owned by a company that is well known for data >> mining (does anyone remember PRISM?). >> >> As for meetings... right now I have so very little time to devote to >> meetings, and you always start one at times that are not good for me. >> I have kids and cannot devote too much of my life to things away from >> them, while I am with them. >> Once this project is off the ground, I will be more involved. But as it >> is, I do not need to be involved in the setup phase. >> >> I am just letting you all know that I intend to remain relatively quite, >> but I am actually still around :) >> >> >> >> On 01/21/2015 11:25 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: >> >> Weekends are best for me. early mornings and preferably on weekends to >> meet and discuss. >> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:20 AM, Emily Gonyer <emilyyr...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Tomorrow I'm mostly free aside from 10am-1pm (I'm -5GMT...), Friday >>> we'll be visiting a museum, but I can check in on IRC/email; early >>> Saturday I'm available but planning to go out in the evening - so up >>> till ~4-4:30pm. Sunday I don't have any plans except to sleep in :p >>> >>> Emily >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) <amjja...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Emily Gonyer <emilyyr...@gmail.com> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Ali, >>> > >>> > >>> > Hi dear Emily, >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I'm not going to pretend I have any idea as to why it was that Gustavo >>> >> and/or Svetlana left, nor do I particularly care. >>> > >>> > >>> > I highly respect your honesty. Thank you for speaking your mind >>> > directly. >>> > >>> >> >>> >> I am still very >>> >> interested in and excited about Kibo, and plan to continue to help >>> >> however/whenever I can. >>> > >>> > >>> > So kind and nice of you, many thanks :) >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>> >> I feel like we are going to be in need of >>> >> another meeting with the remaining members present asap to discuss >>> >> what we have, what we need, where we're going, etc. >>> > >>> > >>> > I agree. I was about to ask for that but I wanted to prepare some >>> > positive >>> > progress first :) >>> > >>> >> >>> >> I'm fairly busy >>> >> over the next few days but if I know ahead of time, I should be able >>> >> to make time. >>> > >>> > >>> > For me, my time is +11 GMT and you guys can contact me anytime. >>> > Whenever >>> > you're free. However, what about the coming days? >>> > >>> > Fri? >>> > Sat? >>> > Sun? >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Emily >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Thank you! >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) >>> >> <amjja...@gmail.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > @Phill: >>> >> > I'm CC'ing you as per your request as discussed last night (your >>> >> > time). >>> >> > >>> >> > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Jonathan Aquilina >>> >> > <eagles051...@gmail.com> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Hey Ali, >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Hi Jonathan and everyone else, >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I want to put this out there as I have spoken to some people and >>> >> >> they >>> >> >> are >>> >> >> getting a bit worn out with the lack of decisions being taken and >>> >> >> only >>> >> >> discussion. As the saying goes actions speak louder than words. >>> >> >> That is >>> >> >> in a >>> >> >> way why I took the decision to speak to phil about the server. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Again things are stuck in a loop of discussion and no action is >>> >> >> happening. >>> >> >> The people I spoke to are on the verge of leaving. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > The people you spoke to, with all due respect, are not being honest >>> >> > and >>> >> > they're spreading more than one version of the story :) they tell >>> >> > you >>> >> > something, they tell Phill different thing and they tell me >>> >> > something >>> >> > else. >>> >> > For you ALL to understand, I hate this childish behaviour. Grown up >>> >> > people >>> >> > should never do that. If you have a problem with someone or >>> >> > something, >>> >> > bring >>> >> > it to discussion and no need to come up with different version of >>> >> > the >>> >> > story >>> >> > and go public with it. >>> >> > >>> >> > Here is what happened: >>> >> > Gustavo and Svetlana both joined Kibo as they were super interested. >>> >> > One >>> >> > is >>> >> > a business person (as he said) and the other is a community person >>> >> > (as >>> >> > she >>> >> > said). >>> >> > >>> >> > We were super fine and everything was okay. >>> >> > >>> >> > Over a disagreement and different opinion, they both left at the >>> >> > same >>> >> > time. >>> >> > >>> >> > After 24 hours, Gustavo sent me a long email asking to be back to >>> >> > Kibo. >>> >> > I >>> >> > still have that email if someone does not believe me here - in case. >>> >> > I accepted that and he wanted to bring back Svetlana and I too >>> >> > accepted >>> >> > that. >>> >> > >>> >> > I had a condition. It was: "please don't leave again if we disagree. >>> >> > We >>> >> > should not let such silly things get into our way. Every beginning >>> >> > is >>> >> > hard >>> >> > so let's move forward and work as a team." >>> >> > >>> >> > They accepted that. >>> >> > >>> >> > After that last meeting, Emily, myself and Gustavo was there - I >>> >> > have >>> >> > the >>> >> > link for the meeting as we did record that on YouTube. >>> >> > >>> >> > Gustavo after that meeting remained silent. I knew and did SEE what >>> >> > would >>> >> > happen next and it indeed happened and I was right. He asked me for >>> >> > a >>> >> > chat >>> >> > and he quit, yet again. This time, he said it is not about you Ali, >>> >> > it >>> >> > is >>> >> > about something else. >>> >> > >>> >> > He complained about several things that is not personal nor related >>> >> > to >>> >> > me. >>> >> > >>> >> > While he was chatting with me, after he left, Svetlana did leave >>> >> > after >>> >> > few >>> >> > seconds. That could not be by chance. I know both were on IRC and >>> >> > they >>> >> > both >>> >> > agreed to leave. >>> >> > >>> >> > To me, she has zero ability to make up her mind. She is following >>> >> > only. >>> >> > If >>> >> > someone leaves, she leaves. If someone stays, she will stay. She >>> >> > can't >>> >> > make >>> >> > any decision and this is what I 'saw' based on her 'actions'. >>> >> > >>> >> > By the way, both of them joined ToriOS and they both left. NO GOOD >>> >> > reason >>> >> > for that except they both were picky and didn't really know what >>> >> > they're >>> >> > doing. >>> >> > >>> >> > I have talked to Gustavo. I still have the chat log but I will not >>> >> > going >>> >> > to >>> >> > share it unless he agrees. >>> >> > >>> >> > I sent an email to thank them both: >>> >> > >>> >> > Dear Svetlana and Gustavo, >>> >> > >>> >> > I'd like to show my great appreciations and thank you so much for >>> >> > everything >>> >> > regarding Kibo, specially your quitting the project/team. This has >>> >> > inspired >>> >> > me big time and motivated me a lot. >>> >> > >>> >> > Yesterday, I have come across the attached quote. I saved the image >>> >> > on >>> >> > my >>> >> > HDD and kept it on my desktop. >>> >> > >>> >> > Today, I have indeed learned the real meaning of that quote and I >>> >> > have >>> >> > indeed applied that in my life and WOW, it didn't only work but it >>> >> > did >>> >> > create a huge positive power/energy and I'm so grateful for that :D >>> >> > >>> >> > This is in my mind and heart at the moment so I am letting you know >>> >> > that. >>> >> > >>> >> > All the best and should you need 'anything', I'm more than glad to >>> >> > help >>> >> > while I can. >>> >> > >>> >> > Take care! >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > And I made it extra clear that my door is always open. But ... >>> >> > I ask you all to put yourself in my shoes. Will you accept someone >>> >> > who >>> >> > left >>> >> > 3 times from your house after you were super kind and nice to them? >>> >> > you >>> >> > hosted them 3 times and they left? >>> >> > >>> >> > Gustavo admitted it he was picky and didn't understand Kibo. >>> >> > >>> >> > He got demotivated and didn't want to carry on when he read that >>> >> > Jonathan is >>> >> > not willing to quit his daily work over Kibo. >>> >> > >>> >> > I explained to him and to everyone that Kibo is a part-time job >>> >> > project >>> >> > for >>> >> > the moment. If we can make it and we can make a company out of it, >>> >> > we >>> >> > can >>> >> > work as full-time but only crazy people who might think Kibo is a >>> >> > full-time >>> >> > job. It is not. For me, perhaps it is because I'm jobless. But I >>> >> > would >>> >> > NEVER >>> >> > ever ask someone to quit his job. >>> >> > >>> >> > I'm not a kid, people. I've been around for sometime and I know who >>> >> > is >>> >> > serious and who is not. Who is fooling around and who is not. Who is >>> >> > helpful >>> >> > and who is know. Who is understanding what we do and who is know. >>> >> > >>> >> > Gustavo showed a lot of positive stuff but at the same time, he >>> >> > misunderstood lots of things. Thus, he left. >>> >> > >>> >> > As for Svetlana, as I said, she is always following someone and >>> >> > can't >>> >> > make >>> >> > her own decision herself. >>> >> > She was like either: +1 or -1 only. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I agree with us being too over exposed using launch pad. I proposed >>> >> >> alternatives. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> 1) mailman for mailing list with private archives which is very >>> >> >> beneficial. If the concern is that people's inboxes will get filled >>> >> >> with >>> >> >> lots of emails that isnt the case that is up to them when they >>> >> >> subscribe. >>> >> >> They can subscribe to digest and get an email with multiple >>> >> >> postings >>> >> >> instead >>> >> >> of individual emails. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > What are we waiting for?! I tell you what :) >>> >> > Because NONE of you replied my email about the roles, tasks, and all >>> >> > ... >>> >> > go >>> >> > back to your inbox and see ;) >>> >> > >>> >> > That is why I sent these emails. So X knows what to do and Y knows >>> >> > what >>> >> > to >>> >> > do. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> 2) redmine this is a bug tracker as well as project management as >>> >> >> well >>> >> >> as >>> >> >> version control integration and much more this is a great tool to >>> >> >> have >>> >> >> in >>> >> >> place from now as we can use it to track bugs and issues on the >>> >> >> website >>> >> >> and >>> >> >> more. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I have never used it. If someone could take the time to explain that >>> >> > to >>> >> > us, >>> >> > then why not? I am not against using anything good. WHY people can't >>> >> > get >>> >> > that straight? if someone has an opinion of a feedback, that does >>> >> > not >>> >> > mean >>> >> > he/she is against the idea. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Ali you need to remember as well that things take time to build up >>> >> >> a >>> >> >> following and you have to spend money to make it and in this case I >>> >> >> am >>> >> >> helpign you with the amjjawad website as well as kibos for now as >>> >> >> well >>> >> >> as >>> >> >> phil with the server. If you want this to succeed we need to move >>> >> >> forward >>> >> >> with actions and not rush things. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I know that. Thanks for the reminder. Appreciate it. But, there is a >>> >> > HUGE >>> >> > misunderstanding here. >>> >> > >>> >> > We're confusing RUSHING with TAKING ACTIONS. >>> >> > >>> >> > And there are some other misunderstanding ... >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I would suggest as well talking with Gustavo and putting together a >>> >> >> business plan so that way the business can be presented to >>> >> >> investors >>> >> >> and we >>> >> >> get the cash we need to get established correctly. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > He has quit. >>> >> > Again, put yourself in my shoes. Would you accept someone joined you >>> >> > 3 >>> >> > times >>> >> > and quit 3 times? >>> >> > And he made it extra clear when I tried to change his mind that he >>> >> > is no >>> >> > longer interested and can't help with Kibo. Why do I have to accept >>> >> > him >>> >> > for >>> >> > the 4th time so he leaves again for the 4th time? again, what would >>> >> > YOU >>> >> > do >>> >> > if you were in my place?! >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Here is a quote from Michael Baisden and I agree with him totally. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> “those who fail to plan, plan to fail!” >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I am NOT blind so you don't really have to make it that large :) >>> >> > But thanks anyway. >>> >> > >>> >> > "People don't plan to fail, they fail to plan." >>> >> > >>> >> > In my case, I do plan but NO ONE wishes to listen nor discuss >>> >> > anything >>> >> > and >>> >> > EVERYONE seems to push what he/she wants. NO, sorry, this is not >>> >> > what I >>> >> > want. This is not what a team is about. A team means: all of us are >>> >> > smarter >>> >> > than anyone of us. Someone got upset just because we didn't take >>> >> > 'his' >>> >> > input. Why? ask them :) >>> >> > >>> >> > I have been rejected billion of times. What I have done? before I >>> >> > quit, >>> >> > I >>> >> > did what people told me in my face that this will fail. >>> >> > Example? >>> >> > I suggested a community spin for Lubuntu for super old machines. I >>> >> > got >>> >> > rejected by the majority of Lubuntu Community - no need to mention >>> >> > names. >>> >> > What I did? ToriOS and guess what? it is much lighter than Lubuntu >>> >> > :) >>> >> > >>> >> > I didn't quit right away when I got rejected nor someone disagreed >>> >> > with >>> >> > me. >>> >> > I quit when I found myself zero helpful for Lubuntu after 2 years of >>> >> > being >>> >> > the most active member of all and achieved what none achieved. >>> >> > >>> >> > If you are NOT sure what to do? don't do. Wait, think and then do. >>> >> > >>> >> > So, I would be very careful to accept both of them again in Kibo. >>> >> > They >>> >> > were >>> >> > never rejected. We were only discussing the ideas. Once their ideas >>> >> > aren't >>> >> > taken, they feel bad. Is this a school or what?! >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Sadly with things being super rushed that is whats going to happen. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Define: "super rushed", please! >>> >> > >>> >> > Who went to Phill for a server? Me? that was you :) >>> >> > Define: super rushed so we both be on the same page :D >>> >> > >>> >> > I'm afraid I'm lost. I don't know who is rushed and who is not :) >>> >> > All what I know is we're in different pages at the moment ... but >>> >> > that >>> >> > is >>> >> > not the end of the world. At least for me. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Gustavo is a great and very helpful guy when it comes to this sort >>> >> >> of >>> >> >> stuff and I know he wants this to succeed as well as I. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > He left. His choice. It wasn't about ME. He left for something else. >>> >> > Can >>> >> > we >>> >> > all agree on that, please?! >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I am telling you this as a friend and not only to you to everyone >>> >> >> on >>> >> >> here. >>> >> >> It may seem harsh but its the hard truth and reality. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > You should know by now .. in fact, all of you that I respect those >>> >> > who >>> >> > come >>> >> > and talk to me directly, not leaving after all what I have done for >>> >> > them >>> >> > without one single word. I admire what Gustavo did. But someone else >>> >> > left >>> >> > without a single word. What kind of respect is that? >>> >> > >>> >> > I admire your honesty. You do care, Jonathan. Otherwise, you >>> >> > wouldn't >>> >> > spend >>> >> > time to write to me, right? so, I see that where it is coming from >>> >> > and I >>> >> > have NO problem with that. Even though your bring it to public, I >>> >> > don't >>> >> > mind. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> Jonathan Aquilina >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Sorry for the LONG email but I did this so we can END this right >>> >> > here >>> >> > and >>> >> > right now. NO talking about the past. Let's move forward. >>> >> > >>> >> > I already have Plan B, C, D, etc. >>> >> > I'll NOT rush things. >>> >> > >>> >> > Here is my request for now: >>> >> > I will NEVER ask anyone here to leave and I do HATE to see anyone >>> >> > leaves. >>> >> > You may all stay for now as volunteers. Once we have a clear solid >>> >> > visible >>> >> > roadmap, we can see about that. >>> >> > >>> >> > Do not leave unless you feel so. >>> >> > I will not ask you to leave. Every word you contribute with is >>> >> > helpful. >>> >> > I >>> >> > have my own vision and I find everyone here is useful, even though >>> >> > he/she is >>> >> > not doing anything at this moment, his/her moment will come. >>> >> > >>> >> > If we wish to carry on, we should let the past go and turn the page. >>> >> > Learn >>> >> > from our mistakes for sure. >>> >> > If you wish to be stuck in the past, the present will be lost and so >>> >> > the >>> >> > future. >>> >> > >>> >> > Your call :) >>> >> > >>> >> > And this email for everyone, not for Jonathan nor someone, it is for >>> >> > everyone to read. >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us." >>> >> > Best Regards, >>> >> > Ali/amjjawad >>> >> > http://torios.org - StartUbuntu - Ubuntu GNOME - http://amjjawad.net >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >>> >> > Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net >>> >> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >>> >> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, >>> >> power and magic in it. - Goethe >>> >> >>> >> Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't >>> >> matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss >>> >> >>> >> Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that >>> >> counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us." >>> > Best Regards, >>> > Ali/amjjawad >>> > http://torios.org - StartUbuntu - Ubuntu GNOME - http://amjjawad.net >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, >>> power and magic in it. - Goethe >>> >>> Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't >>> matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss >>> >>> Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that >>> counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jonathan Aquilina >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards >> >> -Israel >> ToriOS Team >> >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >> Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> > > > > -- > Jonathan Aquilina > > > > -- > Regards > > -Israel > ToriOS Team > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project > Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
