On Thu, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:43:16AM -0800, Dakota Surmonde wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Margaret M wrote:
>
> > science courses, though -- Terri, any comments about the CompSci courses at
> > high school, or your university?
>
> I'm not terri :P but I did take CS in high school -- first year was
I'm not Terri either. Heck, I'm still 6 months away from college ;)
> > However, I have never felt excluded or neglected because of my gender.
>
> Really? I've felt excluded, not really neglected, because I tend to learn
> in isolation and then go apply it with people (the truth is I just hate
> looking like I don't know something ;P ) and (a lot of the time, and this
> is a pet peeve) like 'the exception' or 'the wunderkind' (add this to the
> fact that I was a full time sysadmin by the time I was 19..and I'm only 21
> now, and you might see why I've had enough of the wunderkind thing to last
> a lifetime :P )
Ah, yes, the life of the wunderkind. I've been chased by that stereotype since I was
a second-grader (no one-upmanship intended), and I'm just now beginning to be able to
live parts of it down. I've also wanted a good excuse to bring that up on this thread
(and I've also been gone for a number of days).
Anyway, what I really wanted to point out is how competitive classes can get -- to
generalize, the competitive stuff comes mostly from the other guys. I clearly
remember when I was in 7th grade and taking the 8th grade algebra class. The 8th
graders despised me on test day, or whenever grades got announced. I've seen this all
the way on up through high school too. Even to this day I get crap about my test
scores in Physics.
Middle School and High School are funny places, it has seemed to me that everyone is
taught to look good according to grades, test scores, etc rather than what they have
learned. I see this as the root of where the ``competitiveness'' comes from, it isn't
just being one-upped, it's because *they* don't want to do better and look bad. Guys
tend to make one feel unwelcome to express this, but that is a generalization, I've
seen some really competitive girls out there in math and science. Of course, there's
also those hormones to help things along ;)
This all changes once you get out of the public education setting, but that's where
most early exposure is.
>
> > Apprehensive? Uncomfortable? No. I'm aware of the fact that it is a male
> > majority learning environment, and do miss having other girls in the class,
> > but it doesn't make me uncomfortable.
>
> Me neither. It dissappoints me that more girls aren't there, because I
> think more girls *should* be there, but in general I'm at least as
> aggressive as the boys, and, excepting a few years between the time I was
I agree totally, I feel more women/girls/females should be in Comp Sci, physics (we
have *one* girl in my physics class this semester, down from two last semester).
Actually, this is the reason I'm on these lists...
> > I have never felt at a disadvantage in class because I was female. I think
> > it's also what you make of the situation: if you expect to be at a
> > disadvantage, you will be.
>
> yes and no. It also helps to be comfortable around guys, and to be
> very good around guys because I know how to 'read' them -- I know male
> social cues in a way I don't know how to read female social cues --
> obviously interests (beyond computing and math and science) in common help
<snip>
> and now we know why I can never find a date :P
You'd hate being around me ;) I've been such a recluse through Middle and early High
School that I have apparantly become unreadable -- I'm getting better, but having to
remember to smile when I'm happy is a pain in the rump. I say apparently, because
this was recently pointed out to me, but I'm rambling now.
--
Jeff
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