Well, not so much a flame war as a brief exchange of fire :)
My comments labelled RANT had far too much emotion in them and for that
I apologise. I started trying to explain my position and ended up
angry. After writing it I still felt the information content needed to
be there, but couldn't see a way to cut the emotion, so I just labelled
it "hazardous content" and left it.
I have a few brief replies to various peoples replies to said RANT:
+++
Dakota wrote:
> True :) But there is a faction of folks (in the U.S.) who would like
to
> force the picket fences on all of us, and that is worth worry about
I agree, but I never argue with anyone when I'd be just as happy to hide
their body :) (no, I haven't ever done that). You can't reason with the
unreasonable.
> ... Roblimo's artical ... 'bad' reasoning
I don't think Robs article is bad reasoning per'se. I think probably
more based on poor assumptions. In some cases, maybe even the
assumptions aren't that poor. People live in relationships I wouldn't
dream of. Whos to say nobodys happy in an "engineered" one.
As for the rest of your comments, you made my day. Good to meet another
survivor. Here are a couple of things that helped me:
1) Do difficult things you value rather than easy things you enjoy.
Trying to make myself happy never worked. It wasn't until I started
doing things I admired that life got better.
2) Talk to ambulance people about failed suicides. The percentage of
suicide attempts that make a mistake and end up maiming themselves
instead is suprising. I don't fear death. Disability is another
matter.
+++
Srl wrote:
> Okay, first, I didn't mean to start a flame-fest. Can we bring it back
> down to a reasonable level?
certainly.
> and it's fine if they want that, but i feel like too often
> white-picket-fence is the normative ideal, and anyone who doesn't want
it
> (particularly females) takes a lot of shit.
imho, the person who gives you the most sh*t is yourself. Cultural
norms are insidious like that. Nobody gives me any crap about not
wanting to settle down and raise a family except me. I still think it's
"cultural conditioning" that's responsible, but I'm still the one
dishing out the angst.
> I didn't mean it that way.
Ok. The phrase hit a nerve. Sorry about the rant.
> I actually think that ... taking care of oneself emotionally ... is
done by relatively few ... "responsible adults".
I'm not entirely sure how one goes about taking care of oneself
emotionally. I introspect a lot, but it doesn't necessarily make me
happy.
> I think a lot of kids and non-"normal" people do a better job at
emotional well-being than do people who spend lots of time trying to fit
the mold.
Trying to fit the mold is trying to live a lie.
> And I've seen people of various genders get royally fucked up from
> feeling like it was their personal mission to prop up their
> clinically-depressed partner.
I didn't say it was an easy or danger free passtime, just that the
results are often a good thing.
> I think nurturing is all well and good, so
> long as one doesn't do it at the expense of hir own well-being.
Absolutely. You can't help anyone if you're in the crap yourself. As
the emergency services say: Safety first. Dead hero(ine)s are no use to
anyone.
> I've seen lots of nurturers who wouldn't have gotten depressed
themselves
> if they'd encouraged their partners to go to therapy.
Therapy is over-rated. The nurturers in these cases get depressed
because they think they're failing.
> I didn't mean to be offensive or judgmental with what i wrote
Ok, I accept that.
> i was intentionally overstating.
Dennis Leary ( a politically incorrect commedian ) does that. He
offends people too. I quite enjoy his humour though. :)
> I do think, however, that our society
> encourages people to find a relationship instead of learning to be
whole
> people on their own.
Society encourages a lot of things we dislike. Just remember that we're
all part of the society, even the outsiders. What I'm trying to say
here is: I have seen the enemy and it is us.
Doh! I've got things to deal with IRL now, so I gotta go. More to
follow later.
************
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
