> (question: how can you be bothered by themes.org if you've never seen it?)
i don't think i ever said i was bothered by *themes.org*. i said that i
found the inclusion of those particular screenshots (the ones i looked at)
offensive. now granted, i didn't look around the site at all, and part of
point centered around the *context* in which they appeared, which i didn't
experience first hand, so i don't know for sure. i was making some
assumptions based on ingrid's original post, and some of the things that
other people said.
but in any case, whether or not my point accurately applies to themes.org,
i think it applies to many areas of the linux community (not to mention
other male-dominated groups, and even groups dominated by other privileged
subsets of the population, like white people or straight people)... though
certainly any argument is a lot more convincing when applied to something
in particular than when considered in the abstract.
> Well, that seems to be what people use the screenshots section for. If
> I wanted to convince people to use my theme, I'd put it in the theme
> section (which includes a screenshot), if I wanted to say "look how k3wl
> I am", I'd put it in the screenshot section (which doesn't usually
> include a link to download the theme).
ah, i see. that is an important distinction which i was not aware of.
that changes things somewhat, but i think my original point still holds,
even if not as strongly.
> You're starting to sound like the swedish chef ;)
:) i've always thought that the english language needed more pronouns. i
think some friends and i even came up with "ze/zir" years ago. besides
being gender-neutral, it also gives you two different pronouns to use in
describing something involving two males or two females (i.e. if describing
a conversation between a man and woman, you can say "he blah blah, and then
she blah blah", but there's no good way to do that with two men or two
women; so you can use "he blah blah, and then ze blah blah" to have two
different pronouns for the same gender). then later, i discovered that it
had also been created by other people, some of whom were actually using
it... (i guess the use of the letter Z just makes sense!) since then,
i've seen it grow in use... but i digress.
> Hm. If LUA uses a file containing c code, does it imply that the
> intended audience is coders? If LUA shows gimp, does imply that the
> intended audience is gimp users? If LUA shows an mp3 player, does it
> imply that the intended audience is mp3-listeners?
well, no, and i think the reason why not is that people who do not code in
c (or who do not use gimp, or who do not listen to mp3s) generally do not
already feel any hostility. in other words, because there's already a
preponderance of deterrents for women in computing, things like this add
more. but hm. it does seem to me that there's more to it than that. a
good point, and i'll have to think about this.
> s/linux/unix. X is not a Linux thing. Window managers are not a Linux thing.
fair enough. but that doesn't change the substance of my point -- just
substitute "X window manager users" for "linux users"...
> Now, the explicitly stated intended audience for *themes.org* may be all
> linux|unix|X users. However, I don't think any individual theme authors
> explicitly state that the intended audience for their theme is all linux
> users
i would think that the (explicitly stated) intended audience of individual
themes/screenshots is defined by the category in which the theme/screenshot
is filed. and so if the "monica" image being edited in gimp *is* relevant
to the theme itself, then it belongs in a category consistent with that.
if not, then the image doesn't belong in the screenshot of that theme, for
the reasons i stated in my original post...
> (themes.org doesn't do the themes/screenshots themselves.. users upload
> them).
fine, i wasn't making any accusations about who to hold responsible for the
thing that i found offensive. merely explaining why i found it offensive.
> Or implies that the target audience for the particular theme/screenshot
> is men, or more accurately, people who want pictures of naked women on
> their desktop, just as a theme featuring, say, The Xfiles is targeted
> toward people who like The Xfiles.
but the difference is that an xfiles theme having images related to xfiles
is entirely appropriate, while in this one (the one with the "monica"
image):
http://wm.themes.org/php/pic.phtml?src=shots/939317610.jpg
it doesn't seem to be part of the theme. well, i can't find any indication
of a categorization of this particular theme, but given that what we can
see of the background has some penguins (to the upper right) on an iceberg
or something, with some ocean (to the lower left and right), it doesn't
seem that this monica chick is related to the theme.
am i making sense here?
> I understand where you're coming from, just trying to explain my point
> of view...
oh, absolutely. and thank you for doing so.
...derF\lieN
Neil "Fred" Picciotto --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://www.derf.net/
************
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
