I haven't installed windows since 3.1, but I always do as fresh install of ArcalOS and Linux on a spare logical drive, using a RYO script to deploy my customization. That includes a lot of desktop customization for ArcaOS.
For z/OS, you should be able to keep your local mods in a PDS, rework if necessary and apply the in the new CSI. Zap outside of SMP? Not my monkeys, not my circus. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tom Brennan [t...@tombrennansoftware.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 4:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zOSMF Funny! Yes, that sounds like the same conversation I had with XXX company and the XXXXXXXX product, not necessarily that number of X's but could be :) You're right, I should have mentioned that when I install a new version of Windows or Linux, I always start with a full install file and a new disk. And related, I really liked the fact that ServerPac (at least the way I ran it) completely replaced the previous OS. I can barely remember, but before that I think we would do version updates to the existing res pack. So problem members, like maybe something we zapped years before outside of SMPE, could live on. On 5/30/2023 12:36 PM, Pommier, Rex wrote: > Tom, > > I have gotten the privilege of reinstalling 2 Windows machines in the past > year that were so messed up from failed installs/updates that it was easier > to just low level the hard drive and start over. Could I have fixed 1 or > both of them? I don't really know, because Microsoft has hidden the inner > workings so far they wouldn't even tell me what was wrong. Just some generic > "something broke" message. Kind of hard to actually fix something when > that's the totality of the error message. > > But, yes, I've had similar experiences with third party z/OS software (I > won't mention any names or acronyms). One recent episode was when I called > the vendor the first response I got back was along the lines of "yeah, we > can't even make sense of the install as documented. Here, let me walk you > through my process." His worked, but it was nothing like the document. > > Rex > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of > Tom Brennan > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 12:20 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zOSMF > > I can't remember the last time a Windows/Linux install failed. I do remember > the last time an ISV z/OS install failed, and when I called for help the > support person said, "Don't worry about it, *everybody* calls when installing > this particular product." :) > > ISRFIND/ISRDDN is still hunting. And you also need to look at LOADxx, > IEASYSxx, and maybe IEASYMxx to figure out what members are being used. > How would an installation program find those libraries/members to > automatically make the required mods? Not easy. > > Yes, z/OS is complex, but it doesn't have to be. Like Lionel implied, maybe > we need to standardize before something like z/OSMF can ever work as planned. > > On 5/30/2023 9:02 AM, Shaffer, Terri wrote: >> Kids can install, because basically one FMID, and if it doesn’t work, good >> luck. >> >> How many FMID components make up core z/OS? Maybe if IBM made it one FMID >> you could install like android. >> >> I can use ISRFIND or ISRDDN, to find many things out in Seconds, no more >> hunting thru libraries. >> >> z/OS is complex, period, its why I can run 4 flavors of many components, I >> can run X number of LPARS at different z/OS versions, even look at SDSF with >> SDSFAUX now, tons of information is known in seconds, but change z/OS >> release and not all were available yet, SO what assumptions are you will to >> concede to, for z/OSMF to work, with out adding to the headaches. >> >> Ms Terri E Shaffer >> Senior Systems Engineer, >> z/OS Support: >> ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter >> H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592) >> terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On >> Behalf Of Tom Brennan >> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 11:20 AM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zOSMF >> >> EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the >> content is safe. >> >> >> So how come my kids can install apps and updates to their Windows and >> Mac machines, and I can work with Linux with no formal training? For >> example, I don't need to hunt down SYS3.MY2013.PARMLIB(PROG46), I look >> in /etc and parms are in standard directories. Even my Android (while >> annoying) updates itself from time to time. >> >> z/OSMF isn't the cure though. System standardization might be, but that >> would still include IBM dictating how things are done. We accept that on >> the other platforms and it seems to solve a lot of problems. >> >> On 5/30/2023 7:24 AM, Shaffer, Terri wrote: >>> I have to disagree. >>> >>> First lets talk about the migration guide and how many products an average >>> customer runs for a z/OS upgrade? >>> Then how many of the hundreds of actions does any one customer need to >>> actually perform? >>> Then, I know many customers, who may apply one RSU once per year and just >>> add 1-2 PTF for break fix, why would I ever want IBM to supply libraries >>> past an RSU level? >>> >>> One stop shopping doesn’t allow the flexibility the mainframe has always >>> provided, IBM should not dictate how I setup my shop. >>> >>> Lastly, isn’t the actual issue, no-one takes any initiative to learn >>> anymore. >>> >>> Use the analogy of back in the 80's, how much with IOGENs and everything >>> else IBM has done over the years to simplify the system programmers tasks. >>> >>> But now they want GUI/Clicky and removed the interface from the mainframe. >>> Sorry but I have seen too many lockouts for this to work effectively.... >>> >>> >>> Ms Terri E Shaffer >>> Senior Systems Engineer, >>> z/OS Support: >>> ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter >>> H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592) >>> terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Schwab >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 10:11 AM >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zOSMF >>> >>> EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the >>> content is safe. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:04 AM Colin Paice <colinpai...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> People feel that z/OSMF is not meeting their needs. Looking at the >>>> positive side....If we wanted to get future z/OS newbies up to speed >>>> very quickly (1 >>>> month) What should IBM and us users be doing? >>>> >>>> 1. Making better use of existing tools? Eclipse ? >>>> 2. Simplify the installation process (perhaps download the CST level >>>> of >>>> code including SMP/E libraries - so we users do not need to use >>>> SMP/E - >>>> just copy the libraries?) >>>> 3. Simplify the configuration? (How many configuration parameters >>>> are no >>>> longer needed and could just be set to "default") >>>> 4. Drive everything from off-platform through Curl? >>>> 5. Setting up Racf definitions for a new product can be challenging >>>> ... >>>> how can we simplify this - for example products should provide >>>> members of >>>> the definitions. It is easier to delete unwanted lines - than type >>>> in >>>> definitions. >>>> 6. .... >>>> >>>> Is there anything easy we/IBM could do to move in the right direction? >>>> >>>> Colin >>>> >>> Examine the current system, >>> create a script to set the equivalent values for z/OSMF? >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO >>> IBM-MAIN ________________________________ >>> >>> [https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://go.aciworldwide.com/rs/030-ROK-804/images/aci-footer.jpg__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!pLb5hlBsF1HJTUQSxetR0J1DEP5E0p7HKbqjVFRtNBMsfpp-2jPBoOJDkTM0ohg8N_3G4U7GDNAN0wL4NeSjQg4$ >>> ] >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.aciworldwide.com__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!pLb5hlBsF1HJTUQSxetR0J1DEP5E0p7HKbqjVFRtNBMsfpp-2jPBoOJDkTM0ohg8N_3G4U7GDNAN0wL4a-VDkPA$ >>> > This email message and any attachments may contain confidential, >>> proprietary or non-public information. 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