you are correct. A book I read in college, the *Harrad Experiment*, ended with the protagonists planning a move to Montana to take over local government and install their version of an ideal society. Eastern Oregon would be even better; although it did not work for the Bagwhan.
davew On Fri, Nov 8, 2024, at 12:13 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > There aren’t that many people there. It wouldn’t take much of an infusion of > people to complete negate that influence. > They are crazy like the secessionist folks of Shasta county here in > California. > (I’m from Oregon.) > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West > *Sent:* Friday, November 8, 2024 9:25 AM > *To:* friam@redfish.com > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] How democracies die > > The eastern half of Oregon is hell bent on seceding and annexing to Idaho. > Not very receptive to liberal immigration. > > davew > > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2024, at 9:55 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> People make fun of the high-speed rail project in California, but it will >> first pass through parts of the state that are growing but not yet densely >> populated. Real estate there is not out of reach. >> >> California could have a much bigger population and more economic power with >> the right policies. Another area I could imagine population growth is >> central Oregon like the city of Bend. (High desert like Santa Fe.) Really >> most of Oregon is just empty – the question is how to nucleate economic >> activity. >> >> >> >> New Mexico is another place where growth could occur, but it is so dependent >> on federal funding it will probably have do whatever the Trump >> administration wants. I think that could be a problem in the Kennewick, >> Pasco, and Richland area of Washington state too, due to PNNL. >> >> >> >> I’m torn whether it is better for people to stay where they are to prevent >> their states from going farther right (e.g. Texas), or to help them to head >> west. Highly educated women from cities like Austin and Houston come to >> mind as potential recruits! >> >> >> >> *From: *Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Sarbajit Roy >> <sroy...@gmail.com> >> *Date: *Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 10:04 PM >> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> >> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] How democracies die >> >> Steve >> >> Just recalled a PBS "skit" (preserved on Youtube) from 2007. Just replace >> "Bush" with "Trump". >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Phr5TC_v_g >> >> Sarbajit >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 11:18 AM steve smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Sarbajit wrote: >>> >>>> "> ..,The people who voted for him probably do not read Paxton, Arendt or >>>> Levitsky and Ziblat ..." >>>> The people who voted for him don't read... >>>> >>>> We have a similar problem in India, the great semi-literate masses have >>>> been handed cheap smartp[hiones with cheap data plans so they are >>>> connected 24x7 to the Matrix. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Thank you for this pithy bit of parallax, it cuts at least two ways. >>> >>> I believe that we 'elites' make the mistake of wanting the >>> unwashed/semi-literate/??? masses to share our perspectives (whether we be >>> progressive/conservative, liberal/authoritative) and support our vision for >>> *their* future. We then get upset when *they* listen to the *other* >>> elites rather than us. >>> >>> I was completely convinced that Kamala & Co had made such a good argument >>> for *our* vision of a future for humanity (American Exceptional Centric of >>> course) that it would *overwhelmingly* (at least by the margin Trump took >>> over Harris but vice-versa) persuade the folks whose future we are hoping >>> to define. As it turns out, the *other* camp of elites managed to find >>> the right chords to strike, notes to hit to resonate with 74M voters? >>> >>> I'm probably misusing "elite" here (or at least idiosyncratically) to >>> reference those with agency in society above some arbitrary threshold. >>> Education, Social Status, Professional/Trade Status, Ability, Insight, all >>> combine to support this Agency-in-Context, and even more relevant perhaps >>> is the *perception* of Agency? When those who wield >>> economic/political/practical power (the wealthy, the successful politician >>> or rhetoritician, the champion fighter or consummate craftsman) speak, we >>> listen. Trump had Musk and Rogan and Hulk Hogan and the threat/promise of >>> "the STRONG people" (Bikers, LEO, Soldiers, Truckers, Cowboys, ... ) while >>> Harris had all the big name entertainment talent (except Lee Greenwood?) >>> and Academics (except Dennis Prager and 6 other similar wankers) and the >>> Generals ( who the rank and file can be taught or reminded to resent) and >>> the intelligencia. >>> >>> I'm still waiting/hoping/ideating on a better way to achieve collective >>> emergent "wisdom". Glen's references to the tension between "liberal" >>> individuality and any of the extant brands of collectivism (party >>> membership, military marshalling, religious faithing, culting, etc) >>> gestures in a useful direction. Well formed (if not always understood) >>> variations on Swarming (nod to Glen and Marcus) in biology are interesting >>> and maybe the best route in, but I'm still stalled and the smash into a new >>> era of explicit Trumpism is distracting me, even if it somehow forces the >>> parallax I'm missing. >>> >>> Mumble, >>> >>> - Steve >>> >>> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / >>> ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >> .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / >> ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> >> *Attachments:* >> • smime.p7s > > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... > --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > *Attachments:* > • smime.p7s
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