There aren’t that many people there. It wouldn’t take much of an infusion of people to complete negate that influence.
They are crazy like the secessionist folks of Shasta county here in California. (I’m from Oregon.) From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Friday, November 8, 2024 9:25 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How democracies die The eastern half of Oregon is hell bent on seceding and annexing to Idaho. Not very receptive to liberal immigration. davew On Fri, Nov 8, 2024, at 9:55 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: People make fun of the high-speed rail project in California, but it will first pass through parts of the state that are growing but not yet densely populated. Real estate there is not out of reach. California could have a much bigger population and more economic power with the right policies. Another area I could imagine population growth is central Oregon like the city of Bend. (High desert like Santa Fe.) Really most of Oregon is just empty – the question is how to nucleate economic activity. New Mexico is another place where growth could occur, but it is so dependent on federal funding it will probably have do whatever the Trump administration wants. I think that could be a problem in the Kennewick, Pasco, and Richland area of Washington state too, due to PNNL. I’m torn whether it is better for people to stay where they are to prevent their states from going farther right (e.g. Texas), or to help them to head west. Highly educated women from cities like Austin and Houston come to mind as potential recruits! From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > on behalf of Sarbajit Roy <sroy...@gmail.com <mailto:sroy...@gmail.com> > Date: Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 10:04 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How democracies die Steve Just recalled a PBS "skit" (preserved on Youtube) from 2007. Just replace "Bush" with "Trump". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Phr5TC_v_g Sarbajit On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 11:18 AM steve smith <sasm...@swcp.com <mailto:sasm...@swcp.com> > wrote: Sarbajit wrote: "> ..,The people who voted for him probably do not read Paxton, Arendt or Levitsky and Ziblat ..." The people who voted for him don't read... We have a similar problem in India, the great semi-literate masses have been handed cheap smartp[hiones with cheap data plans so they are connected 24x7 to the Matrix. Thank you for this pithy bit of parallax, it cuts at least two ways. I believe that we 'elites' make the mistake of wanting the unwashed/semi-literate/??? masses to share our perspectives (whether we be progressive/conservative, liberal/authoritative) and support our vision for *their* future. We then get upset when *they* listen to the *other* elites rather than us. I was completely convinced that Kamala & Co had made such a good argument for *our* vision of a future for humanity (American Exceptional Centric of course) that it would *overwhelmingly* (at least by the margin Trump took over Harris but vice-versa) persuade the folks whose future we are hoping to define. As it turns out, the *other* camp of elites managed to find the right chords to strike, notes to hit to resonate with 74M voters? I'm probably misusing "elite" here (or at least idiosyncratically) to reference those with agency in society above some arbitrary threshold. Education, Social Status, Professional/Trade Status, Ability, Insight, all combine to support this Agency-in-Context, and even more relevant perhaps is the *perception* of Agency? When those who wield economic/political/practical power (the wealthy, the successful politician or rhetoritician, the champion fighter or consummate craftsman) speak, we listen. Trump had Musk and Rogan and Hulk Hogan and the threat/promise of "the STRONG people" (Bikers, LEO, Soldiers, Truckers, Cowboys, ... ) while Harris had all the big name entertainment talent (except Lee Greenwood?) and Academics (except Dennis Prager and 6 other similar wankers) and the Generals ( who the rank and file can be taught or reminded to resent) and the intelligencia. I'm still waiting/hoping/ideating on a better way to achieve collective emergent "wisdom". Glen's references to the tension between "liberal" individuality and any of the extant brands of collectivism (party membership, military marshalling, religious faithing, culting, etc) gestures in a useful direction. Well formed (if not always understood) variations on Swarming (nod to Glen and Marcus) in biology are interesting and maybe the best route in, but I'm still stalled and the smash into a new era of explicit Trumpism is distracting me, even if it somehow forces the parallax I'm missing. 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