My name is John Kennison. and In have been receiving intriguing emails from Friam. However, I am now bogged down in several other pursuits and I do not have the time to keep track of the provocative issues that are discussed in Friam.
So, I would now regretfully like to stop getting emails from Friam. How dom I dom this? --John Kennison ________________________________ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of glen <geprope...@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2024 11:45 AM To: friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com> Subject: [EXT] Re: [FRIAM] 6 to 1, 12/2 to the other I suggest you are the most qualified to answer your own question. You might start with the Wolfram Physics pages. E.g. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wolframphysics.org%2Ftechnical-introduction%2Fbasic-form-of-models%2Fthe-representation-of-rules%2Findex.html&data=05%7C02%7Cjkennison%40clarku.edu%7C7ee9881cb11c44c334d408dcfa8c5fcd%7Cb5b2263d68aa453eb972aa1421410f80%7C0%7C0%7C638660730920617296%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cNIhIAVP0zBi%2FQ6tDw%2BL387Q3k71YErtG522qtFK3DE%3D&reserved=0<https://www.wolframphysics.org/technical-introduction/basic-form-of-models/the-representation-of-rules/index.html> On 10/31/24 11:29, Frank Wimberly wrote: > Some of you know that in my last position at Carnegie Mellon I was working on > causal reasoning. We made a distinction between probabilistic causation > (smoking causes cancer) and actual causation (dropping the bottle caused it > to break). In the former case we used graphical models, specifically > parameterized Bayes networks to model the causal relationships among a set of > variables. In the latter case a simple directed graph suffices. In the > Wolfram, Gorard, Sorkin work do they make this distinction? > > Frank > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 8:46 AM glen <geprope...@gmail.com > <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Since we're talking about Sabine and anastomosis, I found this video > interesting" > > This Theory of Everything Could Actually Work: Wolfram’s Hypergraphs > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2F-yzdjziS-bo%3Fsi%3Dw5av9XcTUqjodJ5V&data=05%7C02%7Cjkennison%40clarku.edu%7C7ee9881cb11c44c334d408dcfa8c5fcd%7Cb5b2263d68aa453eb972aa1421410f80%7C0%7C0%7C638660730920640424%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a0cpCUINGfmEDGMOGAFFmzOz2DSeVHahwU9rqmri6lI%3D&reserved=0<https://youtu.be/-yzdjziS-bo?si=w5av9XcTUqjodJ5V> > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2F-yzdjziS-bo%3Fsi%3Dw5av9XcTUqjodJ5V&data=05%7C02%7Cjkennison%40clarku.edu%7C7ee9881cb11c44c334d408dcfa8c5fcd%7Cb5b2263d68aa453eb972aa1421410f80%7C0%7C0%7C638660730920656233%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6TAcNhbfFnPfVq3ccx%2FEk1uSXVUcEXO%2FgINngeAXmIk%3D&reserved=0<https://youtu.be/-yzdjziS-bo?si=w5av9XcTUqjodJ5V>> > > "The idea that the laws of physics are a sort of computation has a rather > basic problem. It's incompatible with Einstein's theories of general > relativity and it's not a small mismatch. You see, any type of computation > works in steps. If it doesn't, then calling it a computation is really just a > weird way of talking about the laws of physics that we already use. A > computation has some sort of update rule. [snip] The problem with this idea > isn't just that Einstein's theories don't use graphs. But that we know you > can't use graphs to even properly approximate them. The gaps in the graphs > and the updates in time steps can't be hidden away. They will always be > observable. And we haven't observed them. [snip] As a consequences, you can't > approximate general relativity with a graph while respecting all its > symmetries." > > She then mentions her paper: A No-go theorem for Poincaré-invariant > networks > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farxiv.org%2Fabs%2F1504.06070&data=05%7C02%7Cjkennison%40clarku.edu%7C7ee9881cb11c44c334d408dcfa8c5fcd%7Cb5b2263d68aa453eb972aa1421410f80%7C0%7C0%7C638660730920671545%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=54PKNyAEmTECO5YrmnT%2Bbatv4%2FNSwG0mllOGpt3NOGU%3D&reserved=0 > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farxiv.org%2Fabs%2F1504.06070&data=05%7C02%7Cjkennison%40clarku.edu%7C7ee9881cb11c44c334d408dcfa8c5fcd%7Cb5b2263d68aa453eb972aa1421410f80%7C0%7C0%7C638660730920691394%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5hwIQAE9WqKt5%2Fpj9Wqsm2paU0jn2JV6JB1J0DFsd94%3D&reserved=0<https://arxiv.org/abs/1504.06070>>>, > which I'm incompetent to read. She continues: > > "The new Wolfram approach uses what they call 'hypergraphs'. Instead of > just using graphs to describe space-time and particles in them, they collect > these graphs into groups. So the hypergraph is really a collection of graphs. > The points in this graph describe space-time and can also describe matter in > the space-time, depending on their properties. But the lengths in the > hypergraph are not physical. They have no length. They just quantify the > relations between the points. And since they have no length, there's no > problem with them becoming shorter or longer for different observers. It's > actually a clever idea. I had an exchange with the guy who works for Wolfram > Research who did most of this work, I think, Jonathan Gorard, in 2020. I came > to the conclusion that this is indeed possible. But it's been done before. > This is exactly the idea an approach called 'Causal Sets' put forward by > Rafael Sorkin. As the name suggests, in this approach space-time is a set of > points, like > the points in the hypergraph. And these points have causal relations, > which you can depict with arrows. So that gives you a graph. And this will, > indeed, respect Einstein's theory. If you look at what they've [Gorard et al] > been doing after that announcement in 2020, they've worked more on the > relation between Wolfram's hypergraph and causal sets. Most of this work has > been done, it seems, by Jonathan Gorard. He has also looked at how to use > that to do general relativity and how it prevents singularities, which the > causal sets people never figured out how to do. [snip] However, the causal > sets people already showed that it's possible to put discretized versions of > differential equations on these graphs. So maybe it isn't as difficult as it > sounds. So when I look at this today, I honestly think this research program > is going very well. And I think it's about time that physicists pay a little > more attention to it." > > [Gorard et al] > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com%2Fcitations%3Fhl%3Den%26user%3DItG_Nz0AAAAJ%26view_op%3Dlist_works%26sortby%3Dpubdate&data=05%7C02%7Cjkennison%40clarku.edu%7C7ee9881cb11c44c334d408dcfa8c5fcd%7Cb5b2263d68aa453eb972aa1421410f80%7C0%7C0%7C638660730920706686%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0p3tVGgwaKT70IRDOqDDWRKpuJs1HHcqKCrvDkgID%2Bk%3D&reserved=0<https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=ItG_Nz0AAAAJ&view_op=list_works&sortby=pubdate> > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com%2Fcitations%3Fhl%3Den%26user%3DItG_Nz0AAAAJ%26view_op%3Dlist_works%26sortby%3Dpubdate&data=05%7C02%7Cjkennison%40clarku.edu%7C7ee9881cb11c44c334d408dcfa8c5fcd%7Cb5b2263d68aa453eb972aa1421410f80%7C0%7C0%7C638660730920722019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ldx9xvQnNdtCZv6rUQEX3JRvcoYLjG4ARRHI%2FPRUnuA%3D&reserved=0<https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=ItG_Nz0AAAAJ&view_op=list_works&sortby=pubdate>> > > > On 10/30/24 17:21, Stephen Guerin wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 12:32 PM glen <geprope...@gmail.com > <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com> <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com > <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > > > The idealists will never stop idealizing and then reifying their > ideal. To Engineer is Human. But those of us who know (or merely confidently > believe) reality is made up of a diverse non-wellfounded set of ... what? ... > urges? ... nano-agents? ... IDK, whatever, will always anastomose that built > environment ... or at least reclaim it like a hermit crab squatting in a tin > can. > > > > > > I like the visual and deeper concept, Glen. A kind of wuwei attitude. > > > > sequeing impermanence of political structures to over-reified software: > > > > Today at lunch, John Zingale lamented that the residence time of code > in the system seems to be decreasing. Perhaps Anastomotic Computing is the > next big thing. :-) > -- ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . 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