By the way when I said "simple directed graphs" above I should have said "Boolean networks".
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 12:32 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > See > > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255569778_Actual_Causes_and_Thought_Experiments > > For details > > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 12:29 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Some of you know that in my last position at Carnegie Mellon I was >> working on causal reasoning. We made a distinction between probabilistic >> causation (smoking causes cancer) and actual causation (dropping the bottle >> caused it to break). In the former case we used graphical models, >> specifically parameterized Bayes networks to model the causal relationships >> among a set of variables. In the latter case a simple directed graph >> suffices. In the Wolfram, Gorard, Sorkin work do they make this >> distinction? >> >> Frank >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> On Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 8:46 AM glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Since we're talking about Sabine and anastomosis, I found this video >>> interesting" >>> >>> This Theory of Everything Could Actually Work: Wolfram’s Hypergraphs >>> https://youtu.be/-yzdjziS-bo?si=w5av9XcTUqjodJ5V >>> >>> "The idea that the laws of physics are a sort of computation has a >>> rather basic problem. It's incompatible with Einstein's theories of general >>> relativity and it's not a small mismatch. You see, any type of computation >>> works in steps. If it doesn't, then calling it a computation is really just >>> a weird way of talking about the laws of physics that we already use. A >>> computation has some sort of update rule. [snip] The problem with this idea >>> isn't just that Einstein's theories don't use graphs. But that we know you >>> can't use graphs to even properly approximate them. The gaps in the graphs >>> and the updates in time steps can't be hidden away. They will always be >>> observable. And we haven't observed them. [snip] As a consequences, you >>> can't approximate general relativity with a graph while respecting all its >>> symmetries." >>> >>> She then mentions her paper: A No-go theorem for Poincaré-invariant >>> networks <https://arxiv.org/abs/1504.06070>, which I'm incompetent to >>> read. She continues: >>> >>> "The new Wolfram approach uses what they call 'hypergraphs'. Instead of >>> just using graphs to describe space-time and particles in them, they >>> collect these graphs into groups. So the hypergraph is really a collection >>> of graphs. The points in this graph describe space-time and can also >>> describe matter in the space-time, depending on their properties. But the >>> lengths in the hypergraph are not physical. They have no length. They just >>> quantify the relations between the points. And since they have no length, >>> there's no problem with them becoming shorter or longer for different >>> observers. It's actually a clever idea. I had an exchange with the guy who >>> works for Wolfram Research who did most of this work, I think, Jonathan >>> Gorard, in 2020. I came to the conclusion that this is indeed possible. But >>> it's been done before. This is exactly the idea an approach called 'Causal >>> Sets' put forward by Rafael Sorkin. As the name suggests, in this approach >>> space-time is a set of points, like the points in the hypergraph. And these >>> points have causal relations, which you can depict with arrows. So that >>> gives you a graph. And this will, indeed, respect Einstein's theory. If you >>> look at what they've [Gorard et al] been doing after that announcement in >>> 2020, they've worked more on the relation between Wolfram's hypergraph and >>> causal sets. Most of this work has been done, it seems, by Jonathan Gorard. >>> He has also looked at how to use that to do general relativity and how it >>> prevents singularities, which the causal sets people never figured out how >>> to do. [snip] However, the causal sets people already showed that it's >>> possible to put discretized versions of differential equations on these >>> graphs. So maybe it isn't as difficult as it sounds. So when I look at this >>> today, I honestly think this research program is going very well. And I >>> think it's about time that physicists pay a little more attention to it." >>> >>> [Gorard et al] >>> https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=ItG_Nz0AAAAJ&view_op=list_works&sortby=pubdate >>> >>> >>> On 10/30/24 17:21, Stephen Guerin wrote: >>> > On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 12:32 PM glen <geprope...@gmail.com <mailto: >>> geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > >>> > The idealists will never stop idealizing and then reifying their >>> ideal. To Engineer is Human. But those of us who know (or merely >>> confidently believe) reality is made up of a diverse non-wellfounded set of >>> ... what? ... urges? ... nano-agents? ... IDK, whatever, will always >>> anastomose that built environment ... or at least reclaim it like a hermit >>> crab squatting in a tin can. >>> > >>> > >>> > I like the visual and deeper concept, Glen. A kind of wuwei attitude. >>> > >>> > sequeing impermanence of political structures to over-reified software: >>> > >>> > Today at lunch, John Zingale lamented that the residence time of code >>> in the system seems to be decreasing. Perhaps Anastomotic Computing is the >>> next big thing. :-) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ >>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >>
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