probably by me. Could have been Bill Reese or one of those. Jim Rutt had a podcast with a couple who identify as “pro-natalist”. They are concerned to keep population high so that pyramid payments like social safety nets don’t get too strained. They refer to it as “crazy” that anyone could be positive about population decline, as if unworried about what it would do to the ability to care for old people. Their concern about safety nets is, of course, completely fair and good to consider. But to call anybody who doesn’t share their conclusion “crazy” seems to imply a view of the world in which there aren’t really other things to also worry about.
Given that many of the Reese-type people envision a future in which population declines through war, social chaos, and other barbarisms, the prospect that it could decline because many people choose not to have kids sounds comparatively benign, even if it presents some other problems that will require rather large restructuring if we want to actually solve them and not just abandon the old people. > On Oct 5, 2024, at 4:51 PM, Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Wasn't a paper linked to here that said that the only solution to the > existential problem of climate change is to reduce the population of the > earth to 1 billion from 8 billion? > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Sat, Oct 5, 2024, 2:36 PM Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm> wrote: > Our science illuminates global warming. > > Our political institutions are incapable of crafting solutions absent so many > loopholes as the make the exercise near pointless. > > Individuals operating in those institutions are driven by greed, power lust, > ego, and all manner of what the Buddha called "attachments." > > davew > > > On Sat, Oct 5, 2024, at 12:26 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: >> So in what sense and for what purposes is this pithy aphorism useful? What >> exactly is the pith? >> >> If a metaphor, what is truth in the metaphor, the positive analog. Nobody >> ever said that all metaphors are entirely wrong. >> >> and yes, I am being pissy. >> >> n >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 11:04 AM steve smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: >> All Pithy Aphorisms are wrong, some are useful? >> >> On 10/5/24 9:06 AM, Prof David West wrote: >>> my affection for the quote derives from a metaphorical reading, not a >>> literal one. Something akin to Steve's differential rates of evolution. I >>> also would have eschewed 'god like' in favor of 'magical' ala Clarke's >>> dictum about any sufficiently advanced technology. >>> >>> davew >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024, at 8:46 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: >>>> I think that this way of talking about emotions precludes careful thought. >>>> First of all, neurologizing emotions is just to hide the pea under the >>>> wrong thimble. I don't think paleolithologizig helps much more. Glen is >>>> correct that, whatever an emotion is, its inputs and outputs are >>>> ontogenetically and culturally determined. So, fear, for instance, is a >>>> relation between something that we take to be threatening and something >>>> that we hope will be avoidance. Inputs and outputs are everything. The >>>> rest is just arousal. >>>> >>>> N >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 7:01 PM steve smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: >>>> Emotions/Limbic systems evolve at genetic rates, institutions evolve at >>>> social/cultural rates (maybe the fastest significant change can >>>> happen/resolve is in multiple lifetimes?) but technology is advancing at >>>> must faster rates? >>>> >>>> Or is this wrong(headed) also? >>>> >>>> On 10/4/24 3:43 PM, glen wrote: >>>>> None of that is true, however romantic it might sound. Depending on >>>>> how one defines "emotion", that smells the most true. But the >>>>> mechanisms of emotion are as coupled to current reality as is every >>>>> part of our bodies. To suggest that, say, the Space Force or methods >>>>> like quantitative easing are medieval is just nonsense. Technology is >>>>> more democratized than it has ever been. Granted, it takes (a lot) of >>>>> work to familiarize oneself with something like how GPS works or how >>>>> to NOT click on that phishing email. But to suggest that it's >>>>> "godlike" says more about the person than it does about the state of >>>>> technology. >>>>> >>>>> On 10/4/24 11:16, Prof David West wrote: >>>>>> /"The real problem of humanity is the following: we have Paleolithic >>>>>> emotions, medieval institutions, and godlike technology. And it is >>>>>> terrifically dangerous."/ Edward O. Wilson. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Nicholas S. Thompson >>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology >>>> Clark University >>>> nthomp...@clarku.edu >>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson >>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> >>> to (un)subscribe >>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> >>> FRIAM-COMIC >>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 >>> http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> >> -- >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology >> Clark University >> nthomp...@clarku.edu >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,9LAydEFV2VDYhjDeDrzKW-a0xagFGRctrIS1dFE4Vg0TNhffFnURO9jn56Ukp3vHwbWdwSJjtgcE4PaluBiDA1pUt6f_jC6YhFoT3eeYcQ,,&typo=1 > to (un)subscribe > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,zA5JBlB6UVHf_nDkBhOJhcCgowhm7BrKGPCdPDXYroZRQdeNeoLgB9S7iUlLK-gjgO4Tv1db9jB-Yugew-0e8QddwUziDPcdfYv1czn6L70,&typo=1 > FRIAM-COMIC > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,SEwSSA4EbA5j9HIJY88OtDjdkwY24_MWBNwLAHcInHQ-ry1KZPAdqt_KnMQnSOnAbBwB0vtHA1_J6_JluTk-zaIb3a2AXZpWD5vr8LBL7AjW_u7Oz0WT0DtvoTw,&typo=1 > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,aWPXb6klHZRq_dK2xJajBMJxFhvgeKK8LEjnryzcSMP1zUhc_IkyU3sa9gyf66C7DjhNVT2vmUkaJStDxjqRFT3H3_6GbMp23Tj_M1GOLSDwyW4,&typo=1 > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . 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