Did this ever get published here? I sent it but never saw it. https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/XsJSpoMaTQOqr0Ll0ne3WQ.O60UcGgc4kfT_gbXPz5eBV
It's a cartoon but is it funny, relatable, or interesting? Note that the dog is concerned that its owner may be concerned about where they are going. It reassures the owner, in its own mind, that being with him is what's important to it. Imaginary though it is that's a pretty advanced consciousness. Frank --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 12:16 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > Jochen, > > No bending here. This IS the thread. > > I thought many of us came to agree, be deploying experiences, that an > animal and a human were capable of mutual love. I was never sure where you > stood on that. > > I want to get to the point where we can resolve our different view of > animals and consciousness. My colleagues seemed to agree that these two > propositions are true. > > *Dusty (Dave) **Is **conscious of Dave (Dusty).* > > And now we are working on these two: > > *Dusty (Dave) is c**onscious of Dusty (Dave).* > > I have been working on Dave's last post, which got forked into some > noman's land for the last two hours, mostly trying to get a clean version > of it into this thread. I will post it asap. Meantime, I am looking for > experiences/anecdotes that would lead you to believe that > animals/computers/humans are (are not) conscious. People have been > enormously helpful in making me clarify what I am hoping for. Whatever > else I mean by an experience/anecdote, it is a description of something > that happened to somebody, preferably you, that affirmed (disconfirmed)your > believe that animals are (are not) [self] conscious; what I don't mean is > references lectures and tomes. Frankly, I would prefer to have a cat > video. > > Nick > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 1:31 PM Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: > >> Nick, >> >> Looking for self-awareness in animals before language emerged feels to me >> like searching for culture in anthropology before civilizations appeared. >> >> People in anthropology study human societies, cultures and their >> development, but sadly mostly in the time before it gets interesting (when >> religions, writing systems and civilizations emerged in ancient Egypt and >> ancient Mesopotamia). They examine for instance primitive hunter gatherer >> groups in Africa or ancient tribes in the Amazon region. >> >> Looking for examples of particular experiences with animals that show >> signs of self-awareness (and not only respond to the world around them, but >> also respond to their own responding to the world around them) feels >> similar to me: it is like focusing on a fascinating phenomenon but at a >> place before it gets interesting. >> >> >> If this comment bends the thread too much then please ignore it :-) >> >> >> J. >> >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> >> Date: 7/23/24 6:57 PM (GMT+01:00) >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com>, >> Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm> >> Subject: [FRIAM] Self-Consciousness, experience and metaphysics >> >> David's last post so effectively blurs the lines between these two that I >> am going to give up, for the moment, on my attempt to keep them straight. >> >> Intuition tells me that Dave's post falls on one side of the line, and >> Glen's on the other, but I have to go shopping. I am still hoping to >> hear examples of particular experiences with animals, computers, spouses, >> etc., that confirm your sense that they are not only responding to the >> world around them, but also responding to their own responding to the world >> around them. >> >> Back to this later when stocked up >> >> In the meantime, Please, you-all, don't dick with this thread, don't fork >> it and do, if you are responding to a particular comment, speak to that >> person, don't just fling your wisdom out into the ether. >> >> I never thought you guys would turn me into a thread-Nazi. >> >> Nick >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > > > -- > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology > Clark University > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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