Thanks for that validation. I think SteveS' conception is rooted in the US'
typical puritanical approach to everything. I admit I'm ignorant of the history
of HR. But my sense is that non-US regions have a richer cultural approach to
handling drugs. Even China, which we often ridicule as totalitarian, has lived
with opium use for a much longer time.
Here in the US, the puritans will steal any and every thing and warp it to
their narrative, including HR. I think SteveS is a victim of that narrative.
On 1/7/22 09:49, Prof David West wrote:
glen is describing the actual situation in Europe. I went to a lot of events
where there was a table by the entrance where you could test the drugs
(including heroin and opioids that remain very illegal there) you would be
using at the event (and afterwords). This prevented both overdoses (you knew
the strength of what you were taking) and foreign elements like fentanyl.
Not only was the event made safer, there appeared to be back stream pressure to
the sellers and even to the manufacturers, because people knew who gave them
bad or over cut drugs and refused to buy from them anymore. There were lots of
conversations around the testing table about sources of drugs and who could be
trusted.
BTW, the tables were usually manned by volunteers from mainstream and
government labs / medical institutions and were given paid time off (unless it
was nights or weekends) to volunteer. But the institution and the government
were not directly involved.
davew
On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, at 9:29 AM, glen wrote:
Hm. My conception of HR seems completely orthogonal to yours. It
*enables* liberty and autonomy. But the way you're describing it,
"do-gooder", "interfere", "spirals", "homeostasis", etc., it sounds
like an attempt to *manipulate* the users.
It's nothing like that. By taking my street drug to someone who knows
how to test it, I'm ensuring that my *intention* is satisfied. "I don't
want to take a bunch of strychnine. I want to take a bunch of LSD." HR
is assisting the drug user in their use of drugs, not attempting to
stop the drug user from using drugs. It's similar with other drugs like
heroin. "I don't want to overdose. I want to get high." HR helps ensure
your dosage is appropriate to your *intent*.
Yes, of course the teatotalers and prohibitionists need to be persuaded
to do something other than the stupidity of the drug war. So, to appeal
to those do-gooder types, we can explain that a *side effect* of HR is
that those who don't actually intend to get high, they're just trapped
in some bad attractor, they will be helped out of that attractor. But
don't confuse the side effect with the purpose.
On 1/7/22 09:10, Steve Smith wrote:
On 1/7/22 7:01 AM, glen wrote:
...<Harm Reduction>... And perhaps it's a manifestation of whatever core
physiology it is that binds the [ma|pa]ternal-individual perspectives into a
triangle. HR seems to cut a comfortable, practical slice through the mess, much like
what I imagine a steely-yet-kind affect would look like.
I do have an affinity for the Harm Reduction conception to a degree, and see how it can break the
"downward spiral" that I think is implied here (I feel bad; I take risks/drugs to feel
better; I get caught/judged; I feel bad;....etc). Someone once told me "you are always
either spiraling up or spiraling down in this world, it is the choices you make at any given
instant which you are doing". Even homeostasis ideation leaves room for a mix of up/down
spiraling within some limits. I don't have a lot of experience with drug (or other harsh)
recovery up close, but I have known a lot of mild addicts... people whose
drug/alcohol/sex/spending/exercise addictions *seem* to interfere with their quality of life and
have tried (only mildly) to bump them onto new trajectories. I would say all of them were in some
kind of dynamic homeostasis that had worked for them for years if not decades, and who was I to
interfere with their patterns which were by some measure, actually working.
I haven't. But I'd *like* to buy some street drugs and take it to, say, a rave and have
the HR team test it just to get a feel for that process from the user's perspective. I
think I can project how it might feel to be on the HR team. But I really don't have any
idea how the users feel about it. One of my neighbors back in Oregon, I'm speculating,
would have thought the HR team was part of the "deep state" ... or spies for
the DEA. But I've known many drug users who are more rational than she was.
The major proponents of HR that I know of tend to be do-gooders who believe they are
"saving people". That is not to say that they don't have some successes, and
that the spirit is a good one, but to the extent I have had people (try to) interfere in
my life, it is generally unwelcome (until I am ready, whatever that means). I think the
fact (not the aspiration) of HR can mean that many individuals who might have spiraled
right out the bottom have the opportunity to reverse their spirals and spin back
upwards... ideally through a different mechanism (finding something besides the addiction
that is hurting them to climb back up with?). I think HR is more important to the
non-subject of the HR in that it removes us (somewhat) from the judgement that whomever
is being *harmed* *deserves* to suffer, and I think for the most part, that makes us
better citizens... to relieve our own judgements at least in one or two contexts.
I had heard the phrase "there, but by the grace of God, go I" many times, and dismissed
it as religious gobbledeygook until a very non-religious friend said that about a homeless person
on the street in a time and circumstance when I was able to recognize the "grace" in what
he was saying.
- Steve
On 1/6/22 09:41, Steve Smith wrote:
Your use of Gaze worked for me, but I also understand Marcus' reaction to it.
I'm sure others would as well... Gaze as you intended it and the rest of us
received it is naturally a multi-spectral phenomenon... some of us have notches
in our Gaze, as you suggested Q-shaman and Rittenhouse in their own Reflective
Gaze perhaps. I had not heard the reference to the nanny/daddy/libertarian
triangle before but it fits how I do think about the tensions, up to and
including my own internal apprehensions and intentions which sometimes have my
mind/soul running a little bit like a Wankel engine... each combustion chamber
taking it's turn (positive or negative pressure) on each of the three extrema
you describe. It seems like there is a meta-pattern in there, a first
derivative of those quantities that can get a resonance set up, driving us
forward (or backward). In reflection on my ambitious youth, I think I was
driven by that triad... 1) Wanting the freedom to
explore/experience with abandon; 2) Wishing someone would clear my path, pick
up my broken toys and cut the crusts from my avocado toast; 3) Wishing someone
would bitch-slap the people who were getting in my way or not cooperating and
maybe give me a hearty slap on the back anytime I did something bold.
I also like your invocation of the Steely Affect Judge in these cases. I have my own
distrust/judgement of the "<Adversarial> Criminal Justice System", mostly from
having worked as a PI for a few years (in my ambitious youth) but the few members of those
professions (judges, lawyers, LEOs) that I developed a lot of respect for were those that
seemed to have a truly humanist center AND the Steely Affect you suggest. Unfortunately those
were as Unicorn as the apocryphal Benevolent Dictator and the GoodGuyWithGun... I left the
biz because (partly) I didn't see a righteous niche for me (or anyone?) in that game.
<aside> As an antidote to those judgements/kneejerks of mine, I *was* very
pleased to see how hard the judge, prosecutor, and ultimately Governor of Colorado
worked with the recent Manslaughter Case where the sentences for the trucker were
required by law to be consecutive, leading to a 100+ year sentence for something that
I think ended up being reduced to order 10 years. I wanted to see more of that kind
of unity (vs adversarality) in cases like Floyd, Rittenhouse, Aubery, etc...
I have only begun to follow politics closely in the past 6 years or so but was not
surprised to find how few *statesmen* we had among our elected officials. Among those
who seem to have truly dedicated their life to trying to make this nation (or any given
state or locale) a better place for all who live in the jurisdiction, many have a very
different idea from me of what "better place" would look like, but at least
they seem to engagable on the topic.
--
glen
Theorem 3. There exists a double master function.
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