Yeah, maybe gaze is a bad term for it. I've heard the phrase "in the system",
mostly for disadvantaged people (economic, minority, disabled, undocumented, orphaned,
etc.) who have some slight brush with the law or some little hitler bureaucrat, get their
name on the books somehow, and everything snowballs from there.
We *could*, were we being generous, include people like the QAnon Shaman and
Rittenhouse, simply too stupid to know what they were doing was wrong in any
way. I think it's appropriate to include 1st occurrence drunk drivers, 18 year
olds who have sex with their 17 year old [girl|boy]friend, 14 year olds whose
sexting is exposed, etc. It might even be appropriate to include very young
gang members who joined the gang simply because it's a cultural norm to do so.
I guess its akin to how triggered snowflakes of all stripes get when they're
mores are offended ... and an extension of the old saw of the triangle between
nanny state, daddy state, and infinite resources autonomy. The judges who
handle the insurrectionists should have a steely affect like fighter pilots, I
think. It doesn't matter how insane they or what the circumstances are, just
handle it like you'd handle really bad turbulence or a blown engine. The same
for any legislator, executive, or justice with an eye on what our democracy
is/means.
On 1/5/22 16:41, Marcus Daniels wrote:
I'm not sure how broadly to define the Gaze. I think it is a sort of
psychological warfare, and terrorism in some cases. The drone attacks in
Syria against ISIS seem like a form (factoring off the specific violence). Or
treatment of blacks by police. Anything where one's welfare could be at risk
in unpredictable ways, and really having no idea when and if it is coming.
Here it is clear why it would be coming, and to me makes some difference in
deciding on the ethics of using such techniques. Even if there are some who
can harden their minds to such harassment, I bet it is incredibly effective
overall at destroying the cognitive life of its targets.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of glen
<geprope...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 5, 2022 4:49 PM
*To:* friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Insurrection Index
That's a good point. It reminds me of the fake-it-till-you-make-it backlash we
see surrounding the downfall of Holmes, or maybe the short-sightedness of
basing a corporation's worth on quarterly earnings or stock prices ... or even
just until your *exit*, laughing all the way to the bank. I think I posted on
the paradox of tolerance recently. On the one hand, tolerating Republican
gaming like voter suppression, packing the court with long-term judgeships, and
gerry-mandering requires Democrats to engage in the same slimy behavior when
they're in charge. But *not* tolerating it requires that Dems have to put a
stop to it when *they're* in charge, shooting themselves in the foot. It's like
the no-go theorems. What results is constant deadlock.
But when something does happen, it's the Reps who make it happen because Reps are too
short-sighted to care what'll happen if/when they lose power and Dems are too far-sighted
to make aggressive moves when they can. Then when the Reps lose power and The System
oppresses them exactly the way they designed it to oppress others, they conveniently
forget, whine and whimper, and the silly *empathy-laden* Dems behave
"reasonably".
Maybe we really do need a Philosopher Queen, with a ruthless cadre of lictors,
instead of this Frankenstein's monster we have?
On 1/5/22 15:25, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Glen writes:
< The actual penalty isn't really the deterrent. The deterrent is being "in the
System" ... having the bureaucracy keep an eye on you. Look at the many people whose
outlook has deteriorated simply from The System Gaze. >
And yet essentially the entire Republican party has been taken over by people tolerant of
these nuts. If they become the System, then the Gaze changes (subject to limitations in
attention span). I agree the bureaucracy and the rejection by the lefty meanies and
"manager class" seems to get to them, but there also appears to a real fear of
the deep state. Sometimes I wish this imaginary deep state would swallow some of them
up just to promote a sense of paranoia and powerlessness. It's not like they are
*after* democracy, so they shouldn't be upset or surprised if it the machinery turns
against them.
Marcus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of glen
<geprope...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:31 PM
*To:* friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Insurrection Index
Yeah, while I disagree with the minor point Barry makes about the coloring
(e.g. CA is darker but with larger pop than TX, same re NY and PA), the
visualization isn't the point. The point is a database GUI so you can hover and
see the vector of numbers, click to see the names, etc.
As for putting them down hard, I tend to think the death by 1000 cuts is more effective. The actual penalty
isn't really the deterrent. The deterrent is being "in the System" ... having the bureaucracy
keep an eye on you. Look at the many people whose outlook has deteriorated simply from The System Gaze.
When Rittenhouse was acquitted, it reminded me of Zimmermann
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman>>>, child movie/music stars, and cancelled
professors/pundits. Unless you've got a really solid support system, that focused attention will be
excruciating. You'll learn to punch the paparazzi in the face and hermit yourself away quickly ... or die
from a drug overdose eventually.
Swift punishment is supposed to be a citizen right. But if The System Gazes at
you, that's the real punishment. Plus, many people have short attention spans.
So if you put some down hard, you'll radicalize some onlookers. But if you put
them down over, say, 10 years, the onlookers get bored or distracted.
On 1/5/22 10:58, Marcus Daniels wrote:
I suppose it depends on the question. Is the question where to place resources
to tip the balance of power, esp. for the senate? It's starting to feel like
COVID. They are around, everywhere... I kind of wonder what would happen if
there were a second Jan 6th where they were put down hard. Would it change
anything if they were dead in front of the capitol and it was on Fox News?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Barry MacKichan
<barry.mackic...@mackichan.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 5, 2022 11:49 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Insurrection Index
This map, like many others, is pretty much a map showing the population of each
state. Using color to give #insurrectionists/population would be better, but
even this still improperly gives relative importance to the states with large
areas.
Dave named the two states that are formerly independent. For completeness I’ll
add West Virginia which seceded from Virginia when Virginiu seceded from the
US. (I think some counties in east Tennessee also seceded, but weren’t enough
to make a state and weren’t contiguous with the US.
—Barry
On 5 Jan 2022, at 10:19, glen wrote:
https://insurrectionindex.org/ <https://insurrectionindex.org/> <https://insurrectionindex.org/
<https://insurrectionindex.org/>> <https://insurrectionindex.org/ <https://insurrectionindex.org/
<https://insurrectionindex.org/>>>
It's interesting how bright Texas and Florida are. Maybe I should move to
Vermont next. 8^D
--
glen
Theorem 3. There exists a double master function.
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
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