Glen -
Just a nod here to your clarity of thought and expression...
Your use of Gaze worked for me, but I also understand Marcus' reaction
to it. I'm sure others would as well... Gaze as you intended it and
the rest of us received it is naturally a multi-spectral phenomenon...
some of us have notches in our Gaze, as you suggested Q-shaman and
Rittenhouse in their own Reflective Gaze perhaps. I had not heard the
reference to the nanny/daddy/libertarian triangle before but it fits how
I do think about the tensions, up to and including my own internal
apprehensions and intentions which sometimes have my mind/soul running a
little bit like a Wankel engine... each combustion chamber taking it's
turn (positive or negative pressure) on each of the three extrema you
describe. It seems like there is a meta-pattern in there, a first
derivative of those quantities that can get a resonance set up, driving
us forward (or backward). In reflection on my ambitious youth, I think
I was driven by that triad... 1) Wanting the freedom to
explore/experience with abandon; 2) Wishing someone would clear my path,
pick up my broken toys and cut the crusts from my avocado toast; 3)
Wishing someone would bitch-slap the people who were getting in my way
or not cooperating and maybe give me a hearty slap on the back anytime I
did something bold.
I also like your invocation of the Steely Affect Judge in these cases.
I have my own distrust/judgement of the "<Adversarial> Criminal Justice
System", mostly from having worked as a PI for a few years (in my
ambitious youth) but the few members of those professions (judges,
lawyers, LEOs) that I developed a lot of respect for were those that
seemed to have a truly humanist center AND the Steely Affect you
suggest. Unfortunately those were as Unicorn as the apocryphal
Benevolent Dictator and the GoodGuyWithGun... I left the biz because
(partly) I didn't see a righteous niche for me (or anyone?) in that game.
<aside> As an antidote to those judgements/kneejerks of mine, I *was*
very pleased to see how hard the judge, prosecutor, and ultimately
Governor of Colorado worked with the recent Manslaughter Case where the
sentences for the trucker were required by law to be consecutive,
leading to a 100+ year sentence for something that I think ended up
being reduced to order 10 years. I wanted to see more of that kind of
unity (vs adversarality) in cases like Floyd, Rittenhouse, Aubery, etc...
I have only begun to follow politics closely in the past 6 years or so
but was not surprised to find how few *statesmen* we had among our
elected officials. Among those who seem to have truly dedicated their
life to trying to make this nation (or any given state or locale) a
better place for all who live in the jurisdiction, many have a very
different idea from me of what "better place" would look like, but at
least they seem to engagable on the topic.
- Steve
On 1/6/22 7:17 AM, glen wrote:
Yeah, maybe gaze is a bad term for it. I've heard the phrase "in the
system", mostly for disadvantaged people (economic, minority,
disabled, undocumented, orphaned, etc.) who have some slight brush
with the law or some little hitler bureaucrat, get their name on the
books somehow, and everything snowballs from there.
We *could*, were we being generous, include people like the QAnon
Shaman and Rittenhouse, simply too stupid to know what they were doing
was wrong in any way. I think it's appropriate to include 1st
occurrence drunk drivers, 18 year olds who have sex with their 17 year
old [girl|boy]friend, 14 year olds whose sexting is exposed, etc. It
might even be appropriate to include very young gang members who
joined the gang simply because it's a cultural norm to do so.
I guess its akin to how triggered snowflakes of all stripes get when
they're mores are offended ... and an extension of the old saw of the
triangle between nanny state, daddy state, and infinite resources
autonomy. The judges who handle the insurrectionists should have a
steely affect like fighter pilots, I think. It doesn't matter how
insane they or what the circumstances are, just handle it like you'd
handle really bad turbulence or a blown engine. The same for any
legislator, executive, or justice with an eye on what our democracy
is/means.
On 1/5/22 16:41, Marcus Daniels wrote:
I'm not sure how broadly to define the Gaze. I think it is a sort
of psychological warfare, and terrorism in some cases. The drone
attacks in Syria against ISIS seem like a form (factoring off the
specific violence). Or treatment of blacks by police. Anything
where one's welfare could be at risk in unpredictable ways, and
really having no idea when and if it is coming. Here it is clear
why it would be coming, and to me makes some difference in deciding
on the ethics of using such techniques. Even if there are some who
can harden their minds to such harassment, I bet it is incredibly
effective overall at destroying the cognitive life of its targets.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of glen
<geprope...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 5, 2022 4:49 PM
*To:* friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Insurrection Index
That's a good point. It reminds me of the fake-it-till-you-make-it
backlash we see surrounding the downfall of Holmes, or maybe the
short-sightedness of basing a corporation's worth on quarterly
earnings or stock prices ... or even just until your *exit*, laughing
all the way to the bank. I think I posted on the paradox of tolerance
recently. On the one hand, tolerating Republican gaming like voter
suppression, packing the court with long-term judgeships, and
gerry-mandering requires Democrats to engage in the same slimy
behavior when they're in charge. But *not* tolerating it requires
that Dems have to put a stop to it when *they're* in charge, shooting
themselves in the foot. It's like the no-go theorems. What results is
constant deadlock.
But when something does happen, it's the Reps who make it happen
because Reps are too short-sighted to care what'll happen if/when
they lose power and Dems are too far-sighted to make aggressive moves
when they can. Then when the Reps lose power and The System oppresses
them exactly the way they designed it to oppress others, they
conveniently forget, whine and whimper, and the silly *empathy-laden*
Dems behave "reasonably".
Maybe we really do need a Philosopher Queen, with a ruthless cadre of
lictors, instead of this Frankenstein's monster we have?
On 1/5/22 15:25, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Glen writes:
< The actual penalty isn't really the deterrent. The deterrent is
being "in the System" ... having the bureaucracy keep an eye on you.
Look at the many people whose outlook has deteriorated simply from
The System Gaze. >
And yet essentially the entire Republican party has been taken over
by people tolerant of these nuts. If they become the System, then
the Gaze changes (subject to limitations in attention span). I
agree the bureaucracy and the rejection by the lefty meanies and
"manager class" seems to get to them, but there also appears to a
real fear of the deep state. Sometimes I wish this imaginary deep
state would swallow some of them up just to promote a sense of
paranoia and powerlessness. It's not like they are *after*
democracy, so they shouldn't be upset or surprised if it the
machinery turns against them.
Marcus
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*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of glen
<geprope...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:31 PM
*To:* friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Insurrection Index
Yeah, while I disagree with the minor point Barry makes about the
coloring (e.g. CA is darker but with larger pop than TX, same re NY
and PA), the visualization isn't the point. The point is a database
GUI so you can hover and see the vector of numbers, click to see
the names, etc.
As for putting them down hard, I tend to think the death by 1000
cuts is more effective. The actual penalty isn't really the
deterrent. The deterrent is being "in the System" ... having the
bureaucracy keep an eye on you. Look at the many people whose
outlook has deteriorated simply from The System Gaze. When
Rittenhouse was acquitted, it reminded me of Zimmermann
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman>>>, child
movie/music stars, and cancelled professors/pundits. Unless you've
got a really solid support system, that focused attention will be
excruciating. You'll learn to punch the paparazzi in the face and
hermit yourself away quickly ... or die from a drug overdose
eventually.
Swift punishment is supposed to be a citizen right. But if The
System Gazes at you, that's the real punishment. Plus, many people
have short attention spans. So if you put some down hard, you'll
radicalize some onlookers. But if you put them down over, say, 10
years, the onlookers get bored or distracted.
On 1/5/22 10:58, Marcus Daniels wrote:
I suppose it depends on the question. Is the question where to
place resources to tip the balance of power, esp. for the senate?
It's starting to feel like COVID. They are around,
everywhere... I kind of wonder what would happen if there were a
second Jan 6th where they were put down hard. Would it change
anything if they were dead in front of the capitol and it was on
Fox News?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Barry
MacKichan <barry.mackic...@mackichan.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 5, 2022 11:49 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Insurrection Index
This map, like many others, is pretty much a map showing the
population of each state. Using color to give
#insurrectionists/population would be better, but even this still
improperly gives relative importance to the states with large areas.
Dave named the two states that are formerly independent. For
completeness I’ll add West Virginia which seceded from Virginia
when Virginiu seceded from the US. (I think some counties in east
Tennessee also seceded, but weren’t enough to make a state and
weren’t contiguous with the US.
—Barry
On 5 Jan 2022, at 10:19, glen wrote:
https://insurrectionindex.org/ <https://insurrectionindex.org/>
<https://insurrectionindex.org/ <https://insurrectionindex.org/>>
<https://insurrectionindex.org/ <https://insurrectionindex.org/
<https://insurrectionindex.org/>>>
It's interesting how bright Texas and Florida are. Maybe I
should move to Vermont next. 8^D
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