> On 24 Jun 2019, at 20:32, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 6/24/2019 6:04 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> The burden of proof always falls to those with extraordinary claims. No >>> other scientists lay claim to the origins of reality. >> >> That was the subject debate by Plato and Aristotle. >> >> Aristotle made the extraordinary claim: there is a physical universe made of >> primary matter, which was the false obvious fact precisely doubted by Plato. >> There are never been any proof of this, nor even evidence. We, 20th century >> human tends to take Aristotle theology for granted, but that is only an >> habit, I would say. > > There was nothing "extraordinary" about it. The existence of matter and the > fact that it could be subdivided into tiny, apparently uniform particles was > common observation. There was no evidence at all for Plato's forms.
Of course there were evidence for Plato’s form, notably the discovery of the Pythagorean in Number theory. The birth of mathematics. At that time, “mathematician” meant skeptical toward what we see, as opposed to the idea that we can conceive. To infer that something exists from an observation was the point on which Plato was skeptical. Nobody doubted matter, but Aristotle is the one introducing Matter (and logic, metaphysics, …). I am not sure for the atomists like Democrites, because they were not working on the fundamental question. > >> >>> The default position is that it is unclear or that we haven't advanced far >>> enough. >> >> >> I would say that we have regressed a lot on this domain, since theology has >> been separated from science. > > Plato's mysticism led to organized religion and theology as the servant of > totalitarian oppression. As Vic Stenger wrote, "Science flies to the Moon. > Religion flies into buildings.” You confuse a domain of inquiry with what some humans do with it. And by criticising that domain of inquiry, you leave it in the hands of those who massacre it. I would say that religion is the only goal, And that science is the only mean. > > > “All human progress has been made by studying the shadows on the cave wall.” > --- Sean Carroll That sounds much better. Bruno > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d5bc1c24-0ccc-9e1a-e7e1-5b69cac0171a%40verizon.net. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/F3873DE5-53AF-4386-8AEC-0388D42AA0D5%40ulb.ac.be.
