Okay, I've been looking into/thinking about this for a bit, and I see several ways this could be handled.
1. Electrified rail Looking at Europe here, a large quantity of rail is electrified, making rail transport easier and considerably cleaner. It would also mean dedicated transport for long-distance hauling, rather than having to share with other road users, reducing the strain on the roads. There's already a rail network across the US, with some work it could be improved. Then long-distance hauling is done by train, and town-to-town or warehouse to store is done using smaller, more efficient (and potentially electrified) trucks. If you're not going to do that, then how about... 2. Pantagraphs This is being tested in Europe, but for common corridors and long-haul, you have overhead wires over the driving lane, and tractor units have pantagraphs to pick up that power and power/charge themselves. Heck, downhills could even have trucks feeding back in from regen to help power those going the other way. 3. Batteries on the trailer When box and container trailers are being loaded and unloaded, they're tethered to the dock. With batteries on the trailer, it means the trailer could be getting charged from shore power while they're being worked (or stored), and the trailer can provide power to compensate for its increased load on the tractor unit. There is also a huge dead space with most trailers, between and below the rails. This would use that dead space, meaning no loss of cargo space (though there would, of course, be a decrease to the weight carryable). Box trailers could also have their own solar panels on the top. No, it wouldn't be enough to power them on the road, but it would provide a (not inconsiderable) trickle charge while they're sitting idle in parking and loading areas. 4. Solar Roadways No, I'm not talking about driving on glass. From what I've seen most highways in the US have huge "dead zones" in-between the lanes, and on either side. Place solar panels and equipment there (raised if necessary for safety) and it'd pull double duty, using some of the unused space to generate power, and giving a location for power transmission, making the grid more reliable (and potentially more redundant). That could also then feed into overhead wires (see point 2) for better range and capability. 5. Solar roofs on warehouses, solar covered parking for trucks, trailers and tractors Warehouses and docks are huge, why not do something with all that space? Solar panels on the roof to generate power to store in the trailers you have parked being loaded and unloaded. And you're going to need parking and waiting areas for those trucks and trailers, so why not (like France has started mandating, with shopping mall parking lots) have solar panels over that parking area too? More generation is more better, after all. Industry has shown it can co-operate. Look at the standardized sizes of shipping containers, and palettes, for instance. Or the standard "Fifth Wheel" system. I'm not saying any of these are perfect solutions, and they will all take work and investment to achieve; but they are possible, would make a not inconsiderable difference, and can be done right now. On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 at 10:11, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > I don't know of methane would, on average, produce less CO2 if used > directly in long haul trucking versus using the grid to charge > batteries. > > But, the biggest savings would come from reducing rolling resistance, > regardless of type of energy used. The best way, from a physics point of > view, would be to use steel rails. > > We have plenty of railroad systems throughout the US but they are not > fully used for transporting freight. Presumably this is because there is > too much overhead to build trains out of containers, get them to a major > center, and then break them apart and into short haul trucking. I have a > crazy idea on how to improve that. Could it be made to work ? > > Imagine if semis - both tractor and trailer - were fitted with railroad > compatible wheels, which could be lowered easily to engage with rails > and equally easily raised when not needed. Also imagine new sidings > added to the railroad systems where truckers could position their rigs, > lower the wheels, and a guideway or mechanism would automatically align > them on the rails. > > The process would be for a local haul driver to go to one of these > sidings, press a button to drop the wheels, and exit the cab and leave. > The rest would be computer controlled. The rig would leave the siding > and, wait for a group of semis to come along. When that happens, the > group would stop, the new rig would join the tail of the group (but not > hitched in any way) and the group would take off again. When the rig > reaches its destination, the opposite would happen. A new local driver > would take the rig to its final route. > > Part of the idea, here, is to reduce rolling resistance. The second part > is to travel in "trains" so that the wind resistance is also reduced. > > This idea is riddled with logistics problems and also liability issues. > Is it worth thinking about ? Can clever people figure out a way to make > it work ? > > Oh, and I'm assuming these would be EV tractors. Clearly, on steel > rails, the battery size would be greatly reduced. > > Peri > > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Lawrence Winiarski via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Cc: "Lawrence Winiarski" <lawrence_winiar...@yahoo.com> > Sent: 25-Nov-22 03:41:50 > Subject: Re: [EVDL] the grid needs upgrading - fast > > >I know this will sound like sacrilege on EVDL, but does it really make > sense to have battery powered Semitrailer trucks? Isn't it kind of > carryingthings a little too far? > > > >On a practical note, a lot of electricity is met on the grid with natural > gas generators for demand as they can be spun up and down fairly easily > toaccount for variable production and demand. > > > > Wouldn't it make more sense to just power the truck itself on Natural > Gas and skip the power lines/grid/demand/chargestations...etc.... > >It would also save on 10-20,000 lbs of batteries. not require big > investments, much faster "recharge", and believe it or not, diesels can bet > easily > >retrofitted to use Natural Gas. (They just aspirate the air intake with > nat gas and still use a small amount of diesel for the "spark". > It'sbeen done in other countries, but for some reason it's just ignored > here in the US. > > > >I was very interested in Natural Gas powered vehicles at one time. > Largely ignored in the US. > > There are a lot of good reasons (environmentally and economical) to > consider them. > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, November 24, 2022, 2:48:27 PM PST, Matthew Pitts via EV > <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > > > So you foresee a time in the US where the railroads handle the bulk of > the > >cross-country shipping like they used to? Because that's pretty much the > >only way I can see EV semi trucks not being used for over the road > >operation. And if full day rate charging is cheaper than the cost of a > tank > >of fuel (currently $5+ per Imperial Gallon in the US), I suspect most any > >shipping company would be fine with it. > >Matthew Pitts > >Get BlueMail <https://bluemail.me> for Desktop > >Bill Dube via EV wrote: > >Fast charging during the day will be expensive for trucks and thus be > >unpopular. > >The fast charger operator will take a cut, and the grid operator will > >charge peak rates for electricity. > >Passenger EV's don't typically use fast chargers, they charge at more > >reasonable speeds and rates at home. You want to take a trip, then you are > >willing to pay extra to fast charge on the road. Fast charging is like > >eating in a restaurant. Most folks see it as a waste of money on a daily > >basis and eat at home for far less money. > >Economics will shape the industry and will determine how and when trucks > >will charge. Unlike passenger cars, trucks are very price sensitive and > >will opt for the least expensive option. The available surplus grid > >capacity will set the price of electricity, and the trucking industry will > >find the most economical electricity price. > >EV trucks will seldom be recharged on route at high electricity costs with > >the driver being paid to wait. It is not economic as the trucking company > >will lose money and it simply will not be done. (Or be done rarely.) EV > >trucks will no doubt be used for runs that are within their battery range. > >Bill D. > >-------------- next part -------------- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221124/b3b78fcd/attachment.htm > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221125/6b49a935/attachment.htm > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -- Robert "Anaerin" Johnston -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221125/eb65cab0/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
