Daniele,
You're reading me completely wrong. I am not being sarcastic at all.
I'm pointing out the absurdity that one style of "code of conduct"
inevitably leads to versus another affirmative style which could actually
serve it's intended purpose. I'm not against any code - I'm quite
specifically supportive of one style and very aware and concerned about the
ramifications of the other. I don't know how much more clear I can make the
point than I already have.
Thus far, however, your only response to my actual concern is
assurances that people will "do the right thing and be reasonable". Forgive
me if that holds absolutely no water with me because, even if I were to
trust you personally, you have no power to enforce such an assurance. But I
understand that's the best you can do because that is the best that can
ever be done with this type of thing. So the only responsible action is
don't go there. If you're going to make a policy that is completely open to
any individual's interpretation then you've actually set back the community
and have laid the foundation to harm to the very thing you're trying to
protect.
You keep using the term "known harasser" but attempts to codify what
that is exactly are impossible via lists of "forbidden speech/actions". I
welcome evidence to the contrary but I'm fairly experienced in such matters
and don't anticipate any forthcoming. In some circles I might be a bit more
forgiving for willfully ignoring these facts. But this is a programming
group for goodness sakes! We know how to be specific about things and the
dangers of opening up things to ambiguity. We can do better. So given this,
why not just go with an affirmative policy stating how people should
conduct themselves and demonstrate good intentions without the need to
codify "evil things"? I think it accomplishes what you want to do and, best
of all, could actually work!
-- Ben Scherrey
On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Daniele Procida <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014, Benjamin Scherrey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I thought I made my objections pretty clear in my original email but I'll
> >attempt to be more pedantic about it now. The specific language in the PR
> >86 is:
> >
> >"In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a
> >person's ability to participate within them." for both faq.html and
> >index.html.
> >
> >I disagree with your assertion "that only makes explicit something that
> was
> >already the case" because that's a) not how I read it and b) completely
> >impossible to reasonably enforce or expect.
>
> I can assure you that if we became aware of someone's problematic
> behaviour then depending on the behaviour we could do anything from keeping
> a careful eye on the individual to - in extreme cases - banning them from
> participation.
>
> "Violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a person's
> ability to participate within them" is correct. It doesn't mean that action
> will be taken, but that it may be.
>
> That's already the case. If a known harrasser subscribes starts posting to
> one of our email lists, we might have a quiet word with them, just for
> example.
>
> >I hope that what is occurring is
> >simply a matter of "I don't think it means what you think it means" but
> >what you're really saying here is that all people on this planet must
> >comply with our "code of conduct" at all times in all places or risk being
> >removed from our community - right after, mind you ironically, claiming to
> >support an encourage the participation of all individuals.
>
> Being removed from the community would be the last, not the first, course
> of action.
>
> >So what is this
> >code of conduct that we're imposing on all of humanity for the salvation
> of
> >the world?
>
> You've had your points answered twice already, politely both times. If you
> want to make sarcastic remarks for your own amusement, don't expect any
> more replies.
>
> Daniele
>
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