Ben, Just to clarify, it sounds like what you're saying is the following: If there were a member of the django community who (may this never be the case) was harassing members of the django community, but limited their harassment to non-django-specific forums, you would want it to not affect their participation in django spaces.
Is that correct? If so, is that a blanket statement or does it depend in your mind what exactly they've done? For example, what if they had a single hateful tweet? What if they had five? What if they orchestrated a harassment campaign that drove someone from their home? Where would you draw the line? I would also like to point out that the code of conduct doesn't seem to contain any statements about how it's enforced. Generally speaking, policies like this operate with a certain number of warnings, followed by escalation if that doesn't stick - except in extreme cases. It even says explicitly *in* the policy: Don’t forget that it is human to err and blaming each other doesn’t get us > anywhere, rather offer to help resolving issues and to help learn from > mistakes. I understand that you're concerned about the application of the policy, but it seems like you're (perhaps unintentionally) exaggerating the scope and purpose of the policy to support your point. --Stephen On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:16 AM, Benjamin Scherrey <[email protected]> wrote: > I thought I made my objections pretty clear in my original email but I'll > attempt to be more pedantic about it now. The specific language in the PR > 86 is: > > "In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a > person's ability to participate within them." for both faq.html and > index.html. > > I disagree with your assertion "that only makes explicit something that > was already the case" because that's a) not how I read it and b) completely > impossible to reasonably enforce or expect. I hope that what is occurring is > simply a matter of "I don't think it means what you think it means" but > what you're really saying here is that all people on this planet must > comply with our "code of conduct" at all times in all places or risk being > removed from our community - right after, mind you ironically, claiming to > support an encourage the participation of all individuals. So what is this > code of conduct that we're imposing on all of humanity for the salvation of > the world? Fortunately there is, literally, a list: > > <ul> > <li>Violent threats or language directed against another person.</li> > <li>Sexist, racist, or otherwise discriminatory jokes and > language.</li> > <li>Posting sexually explicit or violent material.</li> > <li>Posting (or threatening to post) other people's personally > identifying information ("doxing").</li> > <li>Personal insults, especially those using racist or sexist > terms.</li> > <li>Unwelcome sexual attention.</li> > <li>Advocating for, or encouraging, any of the above behavior.</li> > <li>Repeated harassment of others. In general, if someone asks you to > stop, then stop.</li> > </ul> > > So lets see... anyone who has done any of the following completely outside > the context of the Django community or forums is now not welcome to > participate: > > 1) Ever threatened to or actually spank their children. > 2) Ever used violence or threat there-of to defend another person from > same. > 3) Ever posted a naked or somewhat explicit picture of themselves or > others in a private message to another person or in a forum, such as a > photo site like flickr. > 4) Dox'd a person who is clearly engaging in criminal activity under a > pretense of anonymity. > 5) Ever repeated a joke with sexual or racial content. > 6) Ever asked someone out or complemented another person on their looks > who didn't want it. > 7) Said it's ok for someone to do any of the above. > 8) Said or did it twice. > > Seriously?!?! This *is* really what you're saying. (BTW - I've done all of > the above at one time or another so ban me now.) > > Of course some of these (but not all - and it depends a lot about whom) > may seem outrageous but they are true to the letter of the code of conduct. > I agree these things probably don't belong in the context of a Django > discussion or group but I do not believe you can enforce elimination this > conduct outside of same. And - then there's just the ability to agree to > disagree. One can very credibly argue that many religions or political > philosophies are racist, sexist, etc. Are all practicing members of same > now banned from participation in Django? This RP language says yes. > > Now that I have, again, been responsive to your dismissal of my > objections, please do me the courtesy of re-reading my original (and this) > email and attempt to be responsive to it's content. > > thank you, > > -- Ben Scherrey > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Daniele Procida <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014, Benjamin Scherrey <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Nothing you've written disagrees with what I said, nor do you address >> >the core concern I bring up about the "change of substance" which is >> chock >> >full of opportunities for the law of unintended consequences to come up >> and >> >bite us all. >> >> What in your opinion is (or was) the "change of substance" in < >> https://github.com/django/djangoproject.com/pull/86>? >> >> I didn't see any but a very minor one, that only makes explicit something >> that was already the case. >> >> >Re-reading the existing documents, I find that this language >> >introduces an entirely different tone to the language of these policies >> >and, again, implies some dangerous precedents beyond what the writers may >> >intend. >> >> Which language in pull request 86? >> >> Daniele >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Django developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/20140907200417.1287303773%40mail.wservices.ch >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Chief Systems Architect Proteus Technologies <http://proteus-tech.com> > Chief Fan Biggest Fan Productions <http://biggestfan.net> > Personal blog where I am not your demographic > <http://notyourdemographic.com>. > > This email intended solely for those who have received it. 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