Hi Shai,
I really appreciate you for being the first person to directly respond
to this most critical issue in this debate. You are correct, this incident
is quite central to my point and concern. However, I have again reviewed
the group thread under discussion where the incident occurred and found
absolutely nothing that comes close to violating the CoC from the person
who was quite directly threatened to either shut up or be banned. It
doesn't get much clearer than that.
I also agree that this reflects very poorly on the person invoking the
CoC, a person that I have admired and respected for some time. My personal
belief is that this person was reacting more to the general flame war set
off by others not part of the community but, unfortunately, misapplied it
to a person who was giving very on-topic, valid, and constructive debate in
a respectful manner. In fact this person was personally attacked multiple
times but refused to be baited and reply in kind to (apparently) her
attackers. But that's how these things go and good people get hurt.
Absolutely no one benefited and the attempt to apply the CoC
inappropriately was also called out by another person.
You seem to disagree with that assessment. I would welcome any quotes
from this person that you feel are, in context, contrary to the CoC because
I don't find them. And remember that we are a world community and cannot
mis-apply or impose western political correctness on speech that is germane
and relevant to the topic.
Regarding your second paragraph, I don't disagree with the intent (but
am highly dubious as to its actual outcome) but I'd simply ask what about a
solely affirmative speech policy does not adequately (and better)
accomplish what you desire? There is much downside to an enumerated
speech/behavior policy and, as of yet, no justification for going beyond a
more positive direction. I'm curious to hear your views on this.
best regards,
-- Ben Scherrey
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Shai Berger <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ben,
>
> Two points:
>
> A) Your description of the threat-of-use-of-CoC incident, which appears to
> be
> quite central to your argument (as a piece of evidence), is, as far as I
> can
> see, inaccurate. The person who was threatened had started out reasonable,
> but
> later made several disrespectful and prejudicial statements; it was only
> then
> that the CoC was raised. Your repeated comments that the CoC was used to
> silence legitimate opposition reflect quite badly on the people who
> brought the
> CoC up in that discussion; I suggest that you reconsider those.
>
> B) I think you are misinterpreting the intentions and functions of the CoC.
> First, it is not formal law but a set of guidelines. It is not
> comprehensive
> in any way, and not expected to be applied by machines; you made a logical
> jump from "bad behavior outside Django fora may have consequences within"
> to
> "telling a dirty joke to your friends will get you banned from
> conferences".
> That is a serious leap of (lack of) faith. Second, the CoC is not intended
> to
> transform the community -- rather, it expresses and explicates the
> standards
> already in force. The same is true for the addition in PR 86, as has been
> noted in its description.
>
> Shai.
>
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