2013/7/14 Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> > On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Marcus (OOo) <marcus.m...@wtnet.de> > wrote: > > I tie up to Kay's suggestion to discuss a new policy. So, new topic, new > > thread. > > > > For reference here is the old policy: > > > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Release_criteria#Localization_requirements > > > > My new suggestion: > > > > 1. Don't make a difference between UI and Help. > > > > 2. Accepted translations that are 90% or better. > > > > 3. *Except* we have a big or strategic new feature like the Sidebar. This > > should be translated much better than 90%. > > > > Why? > > > > 1. Do we want to make differences between UI and help translation? Do > > average users accept English help topics for translated UI functions? I > > don't think so. > > > > 2. In the previous OOo project translations were accepted with 80% or > better > > for a release. IMHO this is too low to offer a high quality release. > > > > 3. New features that are also promoted in release note, blog post, etc. > > should be fully translated as the attention of our users is high here. > They > > want to give it a try and shouldn't be disappointed with not translated > > parts. > > > > And now, add your points. > > > > > I'd prefer to keep the current rule, 100% UI translation. But I'd be > open to requiring 100% for help as well. IMHO we should be raising > the bar, not lowering it. > > If there is a community willing and able to translate to 90% then > there should be community willing and able to translate to 100%. > There is no technical or community reason to stop at 90%. It is only > a question of time. I'd prefer we just wait for 100% translation and > then release it. > > On the other hand, if a language is stuck at 90% and there are no > active volunteers, then I don't think we should release it. If it > will not get to 100%, then we're just release something that will > reflect poorly on us and will slowly degenerate from release to > release. > > In other words, if it is merely a case of waiting another month or two > and then releasing a high-quality 100% translation, then I think that > is better than releasing something only partially done. > > Also, there is the "slippery slope" here. If we allow 90% complete > then someone will beg for 89% complete, or 88% complete. > > What I would favor is making builds available, maybe at the level of > AOO 4.0, in all languages that are "close", maybe 80% or 90%. Not for > release or distribution, but to help volunteers evaluate its current > state and help translate. >
Fully agree with everything you said. For the UI, any percentage different from 100% is problematic: for the average user it's not the same a 1% missing on an obscure database feature than a 1% missing on the sidebar. Regards Ricardo > > Regards, > > -Rob > > > Marcus > > > > > > > > Am 07/14/2013 05:43 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk: > >> > >> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Rob Weir<robw...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > >>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schmidt<jogischm...@gmail.com > > > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Am Sonntag, 14. Juli 2013 um 06:35 schrieb imacat: > >>>>> > >>>>> On 2013/07/13 20:52, Ariel Constenla-Haile said: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 12:20:32PM +0200, Marcus (OOo) wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Am 07/13/2013 05:14 AM, schrieb Ariel Constenla-Haile: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:54 PM, imacat< > >>> > >>> ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Sorry. I did not see Traditional Chinese version. Did I missed > >>>>>>>>> something on the Traditional Chinese version? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> UI translation is not complete: > >>> > >>> https://translate.apache.org/zh_TW/aoo40/ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I can see that 97% is translated. Not that bad. Do we have an > >>>>>>> agreement that we need 100% for a release? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://markmail.org/message/pxgvjuw2j3ukqsom > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Concerns should have been risen at that time, it was discussed on > the > >>>>>> mailing list, and properly tagged ("if it does not happen on the > >>> > >>> mailing > >>>>>> > >>>>>> list..."). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I'm asking because I really don't know it and in former OOo times > we > >>>>>>> have done releases for languages with at least 80% translated UI > >>>>>>> [1]. So, maybe a change that I haven't seen in the last weeks. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For this particular case, the translation of the main 4.0.0 feature > is > >>>>>> incomplete > >>> > >>> https://translate.apache.org/zh_TW/aoo40/svx/source/sidebar/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> How serious would it be to release this translation in such a state? > >>> > >>> The > >>>>>> > >>>>>> same applies to other languages released in 3.4.* but not in this > >>> > >>> 4.0.0 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> RC. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Hmm... I see the problem with side bar translation. And I'm very > >>>>> sorry that I was in my research paper and did not notice the previous > >>>>> discussion. However, there are several issues of concern: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1. I am going to give a talk in our largest local open source > >>>>> conference (COSCUP 2013, http://coscup.org/) on 8/3, and plan to > >>>>> announce OpenOffice 4.0. It is the first talk after the key notes. It > >>>>> would be very embarrassing to announce it without a local version > >>> > >>> released. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 2. There would be a large-scale deployment around August or September > >>>>> (6000-7000) in a government department, and they are planning to join > >>>>> our development force in order to fix some Chinese problems in > >>>>> governmental use. If OpenOffice 4.0 Traditional Chinese version is > not > >>>>> available at that time, we could only give them 3.4.1, which their > >>>>> development could not be based on. > >>>>> > >>>>> I've asked our local community to help the translation in urgent. > >>>>> If we can finish the Traditional Chinese sidebar translation with > >>>>> certain amount, could it be OK to release it? > >>>>> > >>>> let translate the UI First and then we can figure out what's possible. > >>> > >>> Hopefully some other languages can continue the translation as well and > >>> we > >>> can think about a language only release where I am a big fan of to > >>> support > >>> local communities. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> There is obviously some tension in our goals here: > >>> > >>> 1) We want to release the good work that is already done, so users who > >>> can enjoy the new features, bug fixes, interop improvements, etc. > >>> > >>> 2) We also have some languages that are "almost" done and don't want > >>> to "miss the train". > >>> > >>> IMHO the way to resolve this tension is to let the current 4.0 train > >>> leave the station, but announce another train is leaving soon. Maybe > >>> we can set a goal of September 16th for either a 4.0.1 (if we're > >>> making code changes for a new critical bug) or a language update of > >>> 4.0.0 (if there are only new translations). Hopefully we all remember > >>> that we did this with AOO 3.4.1 as well, adding more languages after > >>> we released. > >>> > >>> From what I can tell there is a steady stream of interest in > >>> translating AOO to other languages. There will always be another > >>> language that is "almost ready". That is what success looks like. We > >>> need to handle new translations when they are ready. We can't hold up > >>> the train, but we also can't make volunteers wait too long for the > >>> next train. > >>> > >>> So how does September 16th sound for releasing additional languages? > >>> Is that enough time? > >>> > >>> -Rob > >>> > >> > >> This seems quite reasonable to me. We need a little time for regrouping, > >> and dealing with perhaps some minor issues that might pop up from the > 4.0 > >> release. > >> > >> Re the old stated "policy" on : > >> > >> > http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Release_criteria#Localization_requirements > >> > >> If this no longer our policy, we should definitely change this. > >> > >> But...I think we should first discuss the policy. What levels of > >> translation do we feel are acceptable if not at 100%. What do we > >> absolutely > >> require to be translated? Menus vs help files, for example. > >> > >> Once we determine translation thresholds, we should include the policy > on > >> the "Native Language" page on the project web site: > >> > >> http://openoffice.apache.org/native-lang.html > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>> But in general we have discussed it and I would have not released > German > >>> > >>> (my mother language) if the UI translation would have been not > complete. > >>>> > >>>> Just to make sure that we need active local communities who > participate > >>> > >>> in the project or at least in the translation part. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> It would be even better if the help would be translated as well but > that > >>> > >>> is a much higher burden and we are more flexible here. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Juergen > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
