Am 07/14/2013 07:11 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Marcus (OOo)<marcus.m...@wtnet.de> wrote:
I tie up to Kay's suggestion to discuss a new policy. So, new topic, new
thread.
For reference here is the old policy:
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Release_criteria#Localization_requirements
My new suggestion:
1. Don't make a difference between UI and Help.
2. Accepted translations that are 90% or better.
3. *Except* we have a big or strategic new feature like the Sidebar. This
should be translated much better than 90%.
Why?
1. Do we want to make differences between UI and help translation? Do
average users accept English help topics for translated UI functions? I
don't think so.
2. In the previous OOo project translations were accepted with 80% or better
for a release. IMHO this is too low to offer a high quality release.
3. New features that are also promoted in release note, blog post, etc.
should be fully translated as the attention of our users is high here. They
want to give it a try and shouldn't be disappointed with not translated
parts.
And now, add your points.
I'd prefer to keep the current rule, 100% UI translation. But I'd be
open to requiring 100% for help as well. IMHO we should be raising
the bar, not lowering it.
If there is a community willing and able to translate to 90% then
there should be community willing and able to translate to 100%.
There is no technical or community reason to stop at 90%. It is only
a question of time. I'd prefer we just wait for 100% translation and
then release it.
Sure, 90% was just my suggestion to raise the bar from 80%. But to stick
with 100% is much easier as it's all or nothing.
On the other hand, if a language is stuck at 90% and there are no
active volunteers, then I don't think we should release it. If it
will not get to 100%, then we're just release something that will
reflect poorly on us and will slowly degenerate from release to
release.
Yes, if the language is no longer supported actively then we shouldn't
release it.
In other words, if it is merely a case of waiting another month or two
and then releasing a high-quality 100% translation, then I think that
is better than releasing something only partially done.
Also, there is the "slippery slope" here. If we allow 90% complete
then someone will beg for 89% complete, or 88% complete.
But then we have to be strict as 99% is also near to 100%. ;-)
What I would favor is making builds available, maybe at the level of
AOO 4.0, in all languages that are "close", maybe 80% or 90%. Not for
release or distribution, but to help volunteers evaluate its current
state and help translate.
Good point, +1.
Do you think about a L10N release somewhen between releases or as a RC
where it's clear from the beginning that it will not be released?
Marcus
Am 07/14/2013 05:43 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Rob Weir<robw...@apache.org> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schmidt<jogischm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Am Sonntag, 14. Juli 2013 um 06:35 schrieb imacat:
On 2013/07/13 20:52, Ariel Constenla-Haile said:
On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 12:20:32PM +0200, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
Am 07/13/2013 05:14 AM, schrieb Ariel Constenla-Haile:
On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:54 PM, imacat<
ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw> wrote:
Sorry. I did not see Traditional Chinese version. Did I missed
something on the Traditional Chinese version?
UI translation is not complete:
https://translate.apache.org/zh_TW/aoo40/
I can see that 97% is translated. Not that bad. Do we have an
agreement that we need 100% for a release?
http://markmail.org/message/pxgvjuw2j3ukqsom
Concerns should have been risen at that time, it was discussed on the
mailing list, and properly tagged ("if it does not happen on the
mailing
list...").
I'm asking because I really don't know it and in former OOo times we
have done releases for languages with at least 80% translated UI
[1]. So, maybe a change that I haven't seen in the last weeks.
For this particular case, the translation of the main 4.0.0 feature is
incomplete
https://translate.apache.org/zh_TW/aoo40/svx/source/sidebar/
How serious would it be to release this translation in such a state?
The
same applies to other languages released in 3.4.* but not in this
4.0.0
RC.
Hmm... I see the problem with side bar translation. And I'm very
sorry that I was in my research paper and did not notice the previous
discussion. However, there are several issues of concern:
1. I am going to give a talk in our largest local open source
conference (COSCUP 2013, http://coscup.org/) on 8/3, and plan to
announce OpenOffice 4.0. It is the first talk after the key notes. It
would be very embarrassing to announce it without a local version
released.
2. There would be a large-scale deployment around August or September
(6000-7000) in a government department, and they are planning to join
our development force in order to fix some Chinese problems in
governmental use. If OpenOffice 4.0 Traditional Chinese version is not
available at that time, we could only give them 3.4.1, which their
development could not be based on.
I've asked our local community to help the translation in urgent.
If we can finish the Traditional Chinese sidebar translation with
certain amount, could it be OK to release it?
let translate the UI First and then we can figure out what's possible.
Hopefully some other languages can continue the translation as well and
we
can think about a language only release where I am a big fan of to
support
local communities.
There is obviously some tension in our goals here:
1) We want to release the good work that is already done, so users who
can enjoy the new features, bug fixes, interop improvements, etc.
2) We also have some languages that are "almost" done and don't want
to "miss the train".
IMHO the way to resolve this tension is to let the current 4.0 train
leave the station, but announce another train is leaving soon. Maybe
we can set a goal of September 16th for either a 4.0.1 (if we're
making code changes for a new critical bug) or a language update of
4.0.0 (if there are only new translations). Hopefully we all remember
that we did this with AOO 3.4.1 as well, adding more languages after
we released.
From what I can tell there is a steady stream of interest in
translating AOO to other languages. There will always be another
language that is "almost ready". That is what success looks like. We
need to handle new translations when they are ready. We can't hold up
the train, but we also can't make volunteers wait too long for the
next train.
So how does September 16th sound for releasing additional languages?
Is that enough time?
-Rob
This seems quite reasonable to me. We need a little time for regrouping,
and dealing with perhaps some minor issues that might pop up from the 4.0
release.
Re the old stated "policy" on :
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Release_criteria#Localization_requirements
If this no longer our policy, we should definitely change this.
But...I think we should first discuss the policy. What levels of
translation do we feel are acceptable if not at 100%. What do we
absolutely
require to be translated? Menus vs help files, for example.
Once we determine translation thresholds, we should include the policy on
the "Native Language" page on the project web site:
http://openoffice.apache.org/native-lang.html
But in general we have discussed it and I would have not released German
(my mother language) if the UI translation would have been not complete.
Just to make sure that we need active local communities who participate
in the project or at least in the translation part.
It would be even better if the help would be translated as well but that
is a much higher burden and we are more flexible here.
Juergen
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Ciao
Marcus
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