On Jul 14, 2013, at 11:33 AM, Kay Schenk wrote: > On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Marcus (OOo) <marcus.m...@wtnet.de> >> wrote: >>> I tie up to Kay's suggestion to discuss a new policy. So, new topic, new >>> thread. >>> >>> For reference here is the old policy: >>> >> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Release_criteria#Localization_requirements >>> >>> My new suggestion: >>> >>> 1. Don't make a difference between UI and Help. >>> >>> 2. Accepted translations that are 90% or better. >>> >>> 3. *Except* we have a big or strategic new feature like the Sidebar. This >>> should be translated much better than 90%. >>> >>> Why? >>> >>> 1. Do we want to make differences between UI and help translation? Do >>> average users accept English help topics for translated UI functions? I >>> don't think so. >>> >>> 2. In the previous OOo project translations were accepted with 80% or >> better >>> for a release. IMHO this is too low to offer a high quality release. >>> >>> 3. New features that are also promoted in release note, blog post, etc. >>> should be fully translated as the attention of our users is high here. >> They >>> want to give it a try and shouldn't be disappointed with not translated >>> parts. >>> >>> And now, add your points. >>> >> >> >> I'd prefer to keep the current rule, 100% UI translation. But I'd be >> open to requiring 100% for help as well. IMHO we should be raising >> the bar, not lowering it. >> >> If there is a community willing and able to translate to 90% then >> there should be community willing and able to translate to 100%. >> > > In many cases, it is probably a "time" factor rather than an interest > factor. I'm not really familiar with the normal tracking and communication > between translation volunteers and developers on this list with respect to > release date targets, however. Maybe this needs improvement. > > > >> There is no technical or community reason to stop at 90%. It is only >> a question of time. I'd prefer we just wait for 100% translation and >> then release it. >> >> On the other hand, if a language is stuck at 90% and there are no >> active volunteers, then I don't think we should release it. If it >> will not get to 100%, then we're just release something that will >> reflect poorly on us and will slowly degenerate from release to >> release. >> > > yes, I agree. > > >> >> In other words, if it is merely a case of waiting another month or two >> and then releasing a high-quality 100% translation, then I think that >> is better than releasing something only partially done. >> >> Also, there is the "slippery slope" here. If we allow 90% complete >> then someone will beg for 89% complete, or 88% complete. >> > > again, agreement > > >> >> What I would favor is making builds available, maybe at the level of >> AOO 4.0, in all languages that are "close", maybe 80% or 90%. Not for >> release or distribution, but to help volunteers evaluate its current >> state and help translate. >> > > hmmmm...I don't know how this would mesh with Apache release policy. > > I guess what you're saying is they could be handled like development > snapshots, but ultimately fail the release test? We need to investigate > this.
We need to VOTE to release whether or not it is an official source release or any type of binary convenience release. For the PMC vote on a language pack the bar to +1 won't be as high because the IP concerns differ. Regards, Dave > > > >> >> Regards, >> >> -Rob >> >>> Marcus >>> >>> >>> >>> Am 07/14/2013 05:43 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk: >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Rob Weir<robw...@apache.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schmidt<jogischm...@gmail.com >>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Am Sonntag, 14. Juli 2013 um 06:35 schrieb imacat: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2013/07/13 20:52, Ariel Constenla-Haile said: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 12:20:32PM +0200, Marcus (OOo) wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am 07/13/2013 05:14 AM, schrieb Ariel Constenla-Haile: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:54 PM, imacat< >>>>> >>>>> ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sorry. I did not see Traditional Chinese version. Did I missed >>>>>>>>>>> something on the Traditional Chinese version? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> UI translation is not complete: >>>>> >>>>> https://translate.apache.org/zh_TW/aoo40/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I can see that 97% is translated. Not that bad. Do we have an >>>>>>>>> agreement that we need 100% for a release? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://markmail.org/message/pxgvjuw2j3ukqsom >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Concerns should have been risen at that time, it was discussed on >> the >>>>>>>> mailing list, and properly tagged ("if it does not happen on the >>>>> >>>>> mailing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> list..."). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm asking because I really don't know it and in former OOo times >> we >>>>>>>>> have done releases for languages with at least 80% translated UI >>>>>>>>> [1]. So, maybe a change that I haven't seen in the last weeks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For this particular case, the translation of the main 4.0.0 feature >> is >>>>>>>> incomplete >>>>> >>>>> https://translate.apache.org/zh_TW/aoo40/svx/source/sidebar/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How serious would it be to release this translation in such a state? >>>>> >>>>> The >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> same applies to other languages released in 3.4.* but not in this >>>>> >>>>> 4.0.0 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> RC. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hmm... I see the problem with side bar translation. And I'm very >>>>>>> sorry that I was in my research paper and did not notice the previous >>>>>>> discussion. However, there are several issues of concern: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. I am going to give a talk in our largest local open source >>>>>>> conference (COSCUP 2013, http://coscup.org/) on 8/3, and plan to >>>>>>> announce OpenOffice 4.0. It is the first talk after the key notes. It >>>>>>> would be very embarrassing to announce it without a local version >>>>> >>>>> released. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. There would be a large-scale deployment around August or September >>>>>>> (6000-7000) in a government department, and they are planning to join >>>>>>> our development force in order to fix some Chinese problems in >>>>>>> governmental use. If OpenOffice 4.0 Traditional Chinese version is >> not >>>>>>> available at that time, we could only give them 3.4.1, which their >>>>>>> development could not be based on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've asked our local community to help the translation in urgent. >>>>>>> If we can finish the Traditional Chinese sidebar translation with >>>>>>> certain amount, could it be OK to release it? >>>>>>> >>>>>> let translate the UI First and then we can figure out what's possible. >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully some other languages can continue the translation as well and >>>>> we >>>>> can think about a language only release where I am a big fan of to >>>>> support >>>>> local communities. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There is obviously some tension in our goals here: >>>>> >>>>> 1) We want to release the good work that is already done, so users who >>>>> can enjoy the new features, bug fixes, interop improvements, etc. >>>>> >>>>> 2) We also have some languages that are "almost" done and don't want >>>>> to "miss the train". >>>>> >>>>> IMHO the way to resolve this tension is to let the current 4.0 train >>>>> leave the station, but announce another train is leaving soon. Maybe >>>>> we can set a goal of September 16th for either a 4.0.1 (if we're >>>>> making code changes for a new critical bug) or a language update of >>>>> 4.0.0 (if there are only new translations). Hopefully we all remember >>>>> that we did this with AOO 3.4.1 as well, adding more languages after >>>>> we released. >>>>> >>>>> From what I can tell there is a steady stream of interest in >>>>> translating AOO to other languages. There will always be another >>>>> language that is "almost ready". That is what success looks like. We >>>>> need to handle new translations when they are ready. We can't hold up >>>>> the train, but we also can't make volunteers wait too long for the >>>>> next train. >>>>> >>>>> So how does September 16th sound for releasing additional languages? >>>>> Is that enough time? >>>>> >>>>> -Rob >>>>> >>>> >>>> This seems quite reasonable to me. We need a little time for regrouping, >>>> and dealing with perhaps some minor issues that might pop up from the >> 4.0 >>>> release. >>>> >>>> Re the old stated "policy" on : >>>> >>>> >> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Release_criteria#Localization_requirements >>>> >>>> If this no longer our policy, we should definitely change this. >>>> >>>> But...I think we should first discuss the policy. What levels of >>>> translation do we feel are acceptable if not at 100%. What do we >>>> absolutely >>>> require to be translated? Menus vs help files, for example. >>>> >>>> Once we determine translation thresholds, we should include the policy >> on >>>> the "Native Language" page on the project web site: >>>> >>>> http://openoffice.apache.org/native-lang.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> But in general we have discussed it and I would have not released >> German >>>>> >>>>> (my mother language) if the UI translation would have been not >> complete. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just to make sure that we need active local communities who >> participate >>>>> >>>>> in the project or at least in the translation part. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be even better if the help would be translated as well but >> that >>>>> >>>>> is a much higher burden and we are more flexible here. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Juergen >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> >> > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > MzK > > Success is falling nine times and getting up ten." > -- Jon Bon Jovi --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
