Hi vino, Thanks for your effort. Could you also share this information with apache INFRA? Maybe we can find a workable solution together. You can try to leave comments in this jira: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18249)
Best, Kurt On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 11:45 AM vino yang <yanghua1...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > The main reason is that the *Apache mail server has been used and caused > a bounce attack on the QQ mailbox*. > > Detailed description: The third parties forged the domain name of the QQ > mailbox to send spam to the Apache mail server. The Apache mail server does > not make a correct check and mistakenly thought that the spammers were from > QQ mailbox instead of third parties, so that these spam emails were > returned back to the QQ mail server, and a large number of bouncers to the > QQ mailbox server caused a bounce attack. Therefore, the anti-spam system > of QQ mailbox automatically applies the interception strategy. Besides > bounce emails, some normal emails are also blocked. > > At present, QQ mailbox temporarily uses a more relaxed anti-spam strategy > for the Apache mail server. However, if QQ mail server continues to receive > a large number of bounce emails, it will also take effective interception > measures. In the history of QQ mailbox, not all emails from the Apache mail > server will be intercepted, most of the rejections are part of the bounce > attack. > > So if someone reports that they can't receive the email from Apache mail > server, they can provide more detailed information to the QQ mailbox to > facilitate the location problem. > > The attached file contains a sample of spam that was rejected and returned > to the QQ mailbox. > > Best, > Vino > > vino yang <yanghua1...@gmail.com> 于2019年6月21日周五 上午10:16写道： > >> Hi Robert, >> >> Yes, QQ mail product belongs to Tencent and I work at Tencent. >> >> I am contacting QQ mail team and trying to know the reason. Once I get >> the reply and explanation. I will sync here. >> >> Best, >> Vino. >> >> Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org> 于2019年6月20日周四 下午10:59写道： >> >>> Thanks a lot! >>> >>> qq.com belongs to Tencent, right? >>> As far as I know, we have some active contributors working at Tencent >>> (Vino >>> Yang). Maybe he or other employees from Tencent following this mailing >>> list, could help to make a connection to the QQ teams to resolve that >>> problem? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 4:43 PM Kurt Young <ykt...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > From INFRA's response: "Yes, they aggressively rate limit us, and all >>> our >>> > efforts to contact them have gone unanswered. We recommend people use >>> other >>> > providers." >>> > >>> > I think the only way is tell user not to use qq.com mails when using >>> > apache >>> > mailing list. >>> > >>> > Best, >>> > Kurt >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 10:23 PM Kurt Young <ykt...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > > Thanks Robert, I left a comment in the JIRA you gave and see what >>> will >>> > > happen. >>> > > >>> > > Best, >>> > > Kurt >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:04 PM Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> Thank you all for working on this! >>> > >> >>> > >> +1 on conducting a survey! >>> > >> >>> > >> @Kurt: Yes, you can just file a JIRA ticket with INFRA (see a >>> similar >>> > >> example, also mentioning qq.com: >>> > >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18249) >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 6:23 AM Kurt Young <ykt...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >> > Is there any chance that we can contact Apache infra team to find >>> out >>> > >> why >>> > >> > apache mails are blocked by qq.com? >>> > >> > QQ mails are very popular in Chinese. >>> > >> > >>> > >> > Best, >>> > >> > Kurt >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 12:01 PM Hequn Cheng < >>> chenghe...@gmail.com> >>> > >> wrote: >>> > >> > >>> > >> > > Hi Gordon, >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > Thanks a lot for providing the valuable information! >>> > >> > > As I carry out the survey about the mailing list, a lot of >>> people >>> > >> told me >>> > >> > > that they just can't subscribe to the mailing list normally. I >>> think >>> > >> your >>> > >> > > information gives a good answer! >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > - User subscribes `user-zh@ address` instead of >>> `user-zh-subscribe@ >>> > `. >>> > >> > > The guidance in the Dingtalk group does tell users to subscribe >>> > using >>> > >> > > `user-zh-subscribe@`. However, I think we can also emphasize >>> more >>> > >> about >>> > >> > it >>> > >> > > not to subscribe using `user-zh@ address`. >>> > >> > > Furthermore, could we also add some meaningful reply to the >>> users if >>> > >> they >>> > >> > > send email to `user-zh@` without subscribing >>> `user-zh-subscribe@`? >>> > >> This >>> > >> > > may >>> > >> > > also be a problem for the non-Chinese speaking mailing list. >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > - Network problem. >>> > >> > > This is true that some network is blocked in China. Just now, I >>> told >>> > >> one >>> > >> > > guy to switch from qq email to Gmail. The result shows >>> everything >>> > >> becomes >>> > >> > > normal. It seems we can do nothing about it. The only thing we >>> can >>> > do >>> > >> is >>> > >> > > try to sync this information to our users and tell them to use >>> Gmail >>> > >> in >>> > >> > > preference to qq.com, etc. >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > BTW, I will post the result of the survey here on Friday this >>> week. >>> > I >>> > >> > want >>> > >> > > to let more people join in the survey. >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > Best, Hequn >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 10:47 AM Tzu-Li (Gordon) Tai < >>> > >> > tzuli...@apache.org> >>> > >> > > wrote: >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > > Hi all, >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > Just a few observations from the MODERATE emails I receive as >>> a >>> > >> > moderator >>> > >> > > > of the user-zh@ mailing list: >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > - About at least once every day, there would be someone >>> trying to >>> > >> > > > incorrectly subscribe to user-zh@ via the user-zh@ address, >>> and >>> > not >>> > >> > > > user-zh-subscribe@. Maybe there is something better we can >>> do in >>> > >> > > > instructing users of the DingTalk group the procedures in >>> > >> subscribing >>> > >> > to >>> > >> > > > the Apache mailing list. >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > - It seems like the email respond bot can't reach some email >>> > >> domains, >>> > >> > for >>> > >> > > > example '@qq.com'. There may be more that are being blocked. >>> This >>> > >> > would >>> > >> > > > block some users from correctly subscribing to the mailing >>> list >>> > >> since >>> > >> > > they >>> > >> > > > can't complete the subscribe process. >>> > >> > > > I don't think they'll be able to receive normal user email >>> > >> > conversations >>> > >> > > > from the mailing list either. >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > Best, >>> > >> > > > Gordon >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 11:39 AM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> >>> > wrote: >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > > >> We did guide users to use mailing list to ask >>> questions, but >>> > >> > people >>> > >> > > > > still prefer DingTalk. We can continue to remind users to >>> use >>> > >> mailing >>> > >> > > > list >>> > >> > > > > frequently. >>> > >> > > > > > Do we know why that's the case? Do we need to educate >>> people >>> > >> more >>> > >> > on >>> > >> > > > > mailing lists? >>> > >> > > > > - Because it's easy and fast as Bowen and Hequn said. >>> Several >>> > >> times, >>> > >> > > when >>> > >> > > > > someone asked questions in group, I told them please use >>> user-zh >>> > >> ML. >>> > >> > > > > But they said "OK, I will post it in user-zh. But could you >>> help >>> > >> > answer >>> > >> > > > the >>> > >> > > > > question first? I'm in a hurry." Then I had to answer the >>> > >> question in >>> > >> > > > group >>> > >> > > > > again. >>> > >> > > > > - Another reason is the number of people in Dingtalk group >>> is >>> > >> growing >>> > >> > > too >>> > >> > > > > fast to educate everyone to use ML. The number grows from >>> 5,000 >>> > >> to >>> > >> > > > 10,000 >>> > >> > > > > in the past months. >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >> 4. The apache archive [1] for user-zh doesn't support >>> > >> searching. >>> > >> > We >>> > >> > > > can >>> > >> > > > > provide a nabble service for user-zh which supports >>> searching >>> > >> itself. >>> > >> > > > > > Great idea! Do you want to set it up? >>> > >> > > > > - Sure, I have setup a nabble service and here is the link: >>> > >> > > > > http://apache-flink.147419.n8.nabble.com/ >>> > >> > > > > It should work now and thank @Gordon for the help. >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > What is the primary search engine for technology-related >>> > >> > information? >>> > >> > > > > - I think the primary search engine in China is still Baidu >>> for >>> > >> most >>> > >> > > > > technicians. So we still need a way to improve SEO. >>> > >> > > > > Maybe the Flink China operation team have some experience >>> on >>> > >> this. >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > A big +1 to Hequn's survey proposal. It's a good way to >>> have a >>> > >> better >>> > >> > > > > understanding about what's the root reason, what do users >>> need. >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > Best, >>> > >> > > > > Jark >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 at 18:11, Hequn Cheng < >>> chenghe...@gmail.com >>> > > >>> > >> > > wrote: >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > Hi, >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > Thank Robert for raising the discussion. Thank Bowen and >>> Jark >>> > >> for >>> > >> > > your >>> > >> > > > > nice >>> > >> > > > > > thoughts. >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > The DingTalk group grows bigger and bigger. I think the >>> reason >>> > >> is >>> > >> > > that >>> > >> > > > a >>> > >> > > > > > lot of problems are solved quickly in the group. There >>> are a >>> > >> lot of >>> > >> > > > > people >>> > >> > > > > > who are willing to answer questions in the DingTalk group. >>> > Even >>> > >> > > though, >>> > >> > > > > for >>> > >> > > > > > some complicated problems, they often not well be solved >>> in >>> > the >>> > >> > > > DingTalk >>> > >> > > > > > group. These problems are often ignored and lost in the >>> group. >>> > >> For >>> > >> > > > these >>> > >> > > > > > problems, using the mailing list is a good choice. >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > There may be many reasons why mailing lists are becoming >>> > >> ruined. In >>> > >> > > > > > addition to some of the reasons mentioned by Bowen and >>> Jark, I >>> > >> > think >>> > >> > > we >>> > >> > > > > can >>> > >> > > > > > initiate a survey to see the actual feedbacks from users, >>> such >>> > >> as: >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > 1. The problems can be solved in the DingTalk, it is more >>> > >> > convenient >>> > >> > > > and >>> > >> > > > > > fast. >>> > >> > > > > > 2. I don't even know there is a chinese user mailing list. >>> > >> > > > > > 3. I don't know how to use the chinese user mailing list. >>> > >> > > > > > 4. Problems are not be answered in the chinese user >>> mailing >>> > list >>> > >> > > > > > 5. Problems are not well be answered in the chinese user >>> > mailing >>> > >> > list >>> > >> > > > > > 6. I prefer using the English user mailing list. >>> > >> > > > > > 7. other reasons. >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > I will follow this survey and then update it here. >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > Best, Hequn >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 12:09 PM Bowen Li < >>> > bowenl...@gmail.com> >>> > >> > > wrote: >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > I want to first clarify that I think Flink China >>> operation >>> > >> team >>> > >> > has >>> > >> > > > > done >>> > >> > > > > > a >>> > >> > > > > > > PHENOMENAL job to grow user base in China! This >>> discussion >>> > is >>> > >> not >>> > >> > > > about >>> > >> > > > > > > discrediting anyone. The problem occurs as more of a >>> high >>> > >> growth >>> > >> > > pain >>> > >> > > > > > IMHO. >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >> We did guide users to use mailing list to ask >>> questions, >>> > >> but >>> > >> > > > > > > people still prefer DingTalk. We can continue to remind >>> > users >>> > >> to >>> > >> > > use >>> > >> > > > > > > mailing list frequently. >>> > >> > > > > > > > Do we know why that's the case? Do we need to educate >>> > people >>> > >> > more >>> > >> > > > on >>> > >> > > > > > > mailing lists? >>> > >> > > > > > > - They "prefer" it possibly because it's easy and fast >>> with >>> > >> lower >>> > >> > > > cost >>> > >> > > > > > than >>> > >> > > > > > > emailing. If we have a worldwide Slack channel, it'll >>> be the >>> > >> case >>> > >> > > > too. >>> > >> > > > > > The >>> > >> > > > > > > quality of communication and question also goes down >>> with it >>> > >> > > though. >>> > >> > > > > > When I >>> > >> > > > > > > last looked at it months ago, maybe 70+% questions were >>> > >> > typically a >>> > >> > > > log >>> > >> > > > > > > screenshot followed up "has anyone seen this before?". >>> Many >>> > of >>> > >> > them >>> > >> > > > > never >>> > >> > > > > > > got answered and just got buried by others. Situations >>> may >>> > >> have >>> > >> > > > changed >>> > >> > > > > > > now, I'm sure. >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > Ideally, we find a way to help the community grow AND >>> > follow >>> > >> > good >>> > >> > > > > > apache >>> > >> > > > > > > practices. >>> > >> > > > > > > - Absolutely. I think, specially, "we" means "include >>> and >>> > with >>> > >> > > Flink >>> > >> > > > > > China >>> > >> > > > > > > operation team". >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > I think maybe the root cause of the original question on >>> > >> > user-zh's >>> > >> > > > low >>> > >> > > > > > > activity is that, we failed counting Flink China >>> operation >>> > >> team >>> > >> > as >>> > >> > > > part >>> > >> > > > > > of >>> > >> > > > > > > our community, and thus didn't get aligned well enough >>> on >>> > >> ideas >>> > >> > and >>> > >> > > > > > > execution. E.g. when voting for user-zh, people voted >>> +1 are >>> > >> all >>> > >> > > > > **devs** >>> > >> > > > > > > who possibly had default expectations that it's gonna >>> be the >>> > >> main >>> > >> > > > > > question >>> > >> > > > > > > channel. I didn't see **any people from our operation >>> team** >>> > >> > voted >>> > >> > > or >>> > >> > > > > > > expressed their opinions. Have we communicated to the >>> them >>> > the >>> > >> > > > purpose >>> > >> > > > > of >>> > >> > > > > > > user-zh before or during the voting? If not, that's >>> > something >>> > >> we >>> > >> > > can >>> > >> > > > > > > improve. I suggest we should officially take Flink China >>> > >> > operation >>> > >> > > > team >>> > >> > > > > > as >>> > >> > > > > > > part of Flink community by inviting and encouraging >>> them to >>> > >> join >>> > >> > > > > related >>> > >> > > > > > > discussions and raise their voice in mailing list from >>> now >>> > on. >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:48 AM Robert Metzger < >>> > >> > > rmetz...@apache.org> >>> > >> > > > > > > wrote: >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > Bowen, I agree with your observations regarding a chat >>> > group >>> > >> > with >>> > >> > > > 10k >>> > >> > > > > > > > members! >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > I'm not very familiar with how the tech scene in the >>> > >> > > > Chinese-speaking >>> > >> > > > > > > world >>> > >> > > > > > > > works. Ideally, we find a way to help the community >>> grow >>> > AND >>> > >> > > follow >>> > >> > > > > > good >>> > >> > > > > > > > apache practices. >>> > >> > > > > > > > If most other projects and communities are doing user >>> > >> support >>> > >> > via >>> > >> > > > > Chat >>> > >> > > > > > > > groups, then it would probably be difficult to move >>> people >>> > >> away >>> > >> > > > from >>> > >> > > > > > > that, >>> > >> > > > > > > > or in the worst case, it would slow down adoption of >>> Flink >>> > >> in >>> > >> > > > China. >>> > >> > > > > > > > Do you think that people are generally okay with using >>> > >> mailing >>> > >> > > > lists, >>> > >> > > > > > or >>> > >> > > > > > > > will it hinder adoption? >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > 2. We did guide users to use mailing list to ask >>> > questions, >>> > >> but >>> > >> > > > > people >>> > >> > > > > > > > > still prefer DingTalk. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > - We can continue to remind users to use mailing >>> > list >>> > >> > > > > frequently. >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > Do we know why that's the case? >>> > >> > > > > > > > Do we need to educate people more on mailing lists? >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > 4. The apache archive [1] for user-zh doesn't support >>> > >> > searching. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > - We can provide a nabble service for user-zh >>> which >>> > >> > > supports >>> > >> > > > > > > > searching >>> > >> > > > > > > > > itself. >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > Great idea! Do you want to set it up? >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > 5. The messages from the mailing list are not showing >>> up >>> > on >>> > >> > > Baidu. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > - I don't have much experience how to improve >>> this. >>> > >> IMO, >>> > >> > > > Baidu >>> > >> > > > > is >>> > >> > > > > > > not >>> > >> > > > > > > > > good at searching for technology-related >>> information. >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > What is the primary search engine for >>> technology-related >>> > >> > > > information? >>> > >> > > > > > > > Or asking more broadly, how are people in China >>> finding >>> > help >>> > >> > when >>> > >> > > > > they >>> > >> > > > > > > run >>> > >> > > > > > > > into problems with a system? >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > Best, >>> > >> > > > > > > > Robert >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 5:49 AM Jark Wu < >>> imj...@gmail.com >>> > > >>> > >> > > wrote: >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks Bowen and Robert, >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > Here're my observations and thoughts. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > 1. Most questions and discussions happen in the >>> > DingTalk. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > 2. We did guide users to use mailing list to ask >>> > >> questions, >>> > >> > but >>> > >> > > > > > people >>> > >> > > > > > > > > still prefer DingTalk. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > - We can continue to remind users to use mailing >>> > list >>> > >> > > > > frequently. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > 3. All the questions in mailing list have replies, >>> > >> although >>> > >> > in >>> > >> > > > > hours. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > - It means users can get problems solved by >>> using >>> > >> mailing >>> > >> > > > list. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > 4. The apache archive [1] for user-zh doesn't >>> support >>> > >> > > searching. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > - We can provide a nabble service for user-zh >>> which >>> > >> > > supports >>> > >> > > > > > > > searching >>> > >> > > > > > > > > itself. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > 5. The messages from the mailing list are not >>> showing up >>> > >> on >>> > >> > > > Baidu. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > - I don't have much experience how to improve >>> this. >>> > >> IMO, >>> > >> > > > Baidu >>> > >> > > > > is >>> > >> > > > > > > not >>> > >> > > > > > > > > good at searching for technology-related >>> information. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > Regards, >>> > >> > > > > > > > > Jark >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > [1]. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > >>> > >> >>> > >>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/flink-user-zh/201906.mbox/browser >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 05:38, Bowen Li < >>> > >> bowenl...@gmail.com> >>> > >> > > > > wrote: >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > I resonate with your concerns Robert. It's because >>> > most >>> > >> > > > questions >>> > >> > > > > > are >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > asked in the DingTalk group which has close to >>> 10,000 >>> > >> > people >>> > >> > > > now. >>> > >> > > > > > > > Here're >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > my observations and thoughts. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > Group chat is great for marketing, announce news >>> and >>> > >> > updates, >>> > >> > > > > > > broadcast >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > live streams/events, and is just TERRIBLE for >>> > ask-answer >>> > >> > > > > questions >>> > >> > > > > > > and >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > discussions (may be ok for 3-5 :) surely not >>> > 10,000...) >>> > >> We >>> > >> > > > > probably >>> > >> > > > > > > all >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > experienced the problems - content not really >>> > >> searchable, >>> > >> > > > topics >>> > >> > > > > > lost >>> > >> > > > > > > > > fast, >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > too much noise, people post questions without >>> evening >>> > >> doing >>> > >> > > any >>> > >> > > > > > > > homework >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > first, etc. I personally have muted that group >>> chat >>> > and >>> > >> > > haven't >>> > >> > > > > > > really >>> > >> > > > > > > > > look >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > at it for a long time, and I do feel the heat in >>> the >>> > >> group >>> > >> > is >>> > >> > > > > also >>> > >> > > > > > > > going >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > down because of the problems. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > Mailing list is indeed old school, but it still >>> exists >>> > >> > > nowadays >>> > >> > > > > for >>> > >> > > > > > > its >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > own reasons - searchable, async communication, >>> topic >>> > >> > focused, >>> > >> > > > > etc. >>> > >> > > > > > > And >>> > >> > > > > > > > I >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > believe all technical discussions and ask-answer >>> > should >>> > >> > > happen >>> > >> > > > in >>> > >> > > > > > the >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > mailing list, not in that group. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > IMO, the root cause is that we haven't clarified >>> what >>> > >> that >>> > >> > > > > DingTalk >>> > >> > > > > > > > group >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > should be really used for, and how it should work >>> > >> together >>> > >> > > with >>> > >> > > > > our >>> > >> > > > > > > > > user-zh >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > mailing list. We created that group chat and kind >>> of >>> > >> just >>> > >> > let >>> > >> > > > it >>> > >> > > > > > > drive >>> > >> > > > > > > > to >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > its own directions. This is a good time to >>> reflect on >>> > >> how >>> > >> > we >>> > >> > > > > should >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > position that group and mailing list. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > As mentioned above, I believe the group chat >>> should >>> > >> only be >>> > >> > > > used >>> > >> > > > > > for >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > marketing/interacting, announcing news and >>> updates, >>> > >> > > > broadcasting >>> > >> > > > > > live >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > streams/events, etc, and all technical discussions >>> > >> should >>> > >> > be >>> > >> > > > > > diverted >>> > >> > > > > > > > to >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > user-zh mailing list. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > I cc-ed a few organizers and drivers of the >>> DingTalk >>> > >> group >>> > >> > so >>> > >> > > > > that >>> > >> > > > > > > they >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > can share their thoughts. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > Bowen >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 2:19 AM Robert Metzger < >>> > >> > > > > > rmetz...@apache.org> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote: >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Hey all, >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> the user...@flink.apache.org is now a few >>> months old >>> > >> and >>> > >> > I >>> > >> > > > > wanted >>> > >> > > > > > > to >>> > >> > > > > > > > > hear >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> how things are going. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> From the number of people in the DingTalk group >>> (5000 >>> > >> ?), >>> > >> > I >>> > >> > > > > would >>> > >> > > > > > > have >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> expected more people to use the mailing list. >>> But I >>> > >> also >>> > >> > > > > > understand >>> > >> > > > > > > > that >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> mailing lists are an outdated technology from the >>> > last >>> > >> > > > century. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> These are the numbers of messages per month: >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Feb: 72 >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Mar: 170 >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Apr: 119 >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> May: 62 >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Jun: 10 >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Is there anything we can do from our side to help >>> > >> adoption >>> > >> > > of >>> > >> > > > > that >>> > >> > > > > > > > > mailing >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> list? >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> For example: Are messages from the mailing list >>> > >> showing up >>> > >> > > on >>> > >> > > > > > Baidu >>> > >> > > > > > > > when >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> looking for common problems with Flink? If not, >>> does >>> > it >>> > >> > > makes >>> > >> > > > > > sense >>> > >> > > > > > > to >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> have >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> a mailing list archive on a server/domain in >>> China? >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Best, >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Robert >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 11:42 AM YuZhao Chan < >>> > >> > > > > > yuzhao....@gmail.com> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> wrote: >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > That's great. >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > >>> >>
